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A very short, powerful video of Tibetan students questioning Sikyong Lobsang Sangay and the doubts that have arisen because of the ban on Dorje Shugden. This is a must-watch video to understand what is happening within the Tibetan communities, and how Tibetans are finally speaking up against the ban, and recognising its unfair and undemocratic nature
By: Kay Beswick
The Tibetan Children’s Village (TCV) School
In an effort to appear more open and democratic, the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA; Tibetan leadership) held a question-and-answer session with a group of Tibetan students. Assuming the students would ask questions that gave the leadership a chance to look modern, open and democratic, Sikyong (Prime Minister) Lobsang Sangay soon realised he had severely underestimated the analytical and observant nature of this new generation of Tibetan youth.
When questioned about his administration’s policies towards Shugden practitioners, Lobsang Sangay was obviously irritated and frustrated. The irritation arose from the fact the Tibetan leadership is unused to being questioned by intelligent, educated children who ask questions without any bad intent, but that exposes their lies or forces them to create new untruths to cover their previous ones. That Sikyong Lobsang Sangay was irritated is interesting – if Mr Sangay had nothing to hide, why be irritated at all? Why not just openly and happily answer the questions?
This young man asked excellent and very relevant questions about the inequality that the ban has created amongst the Tibetan people
At best, Lobsang Sangay’s answers were evasive and at worst, they were outright lies. Either way, the Prime Minister was certainly consistent in answering the questions in the same way, by bringing up the topic of ID cards. Lobsang Sangay’s logic was this – if the Tibetan leadership really wished to discriminate against Dorje Shugden practitioners, they would withhold the ID cards. According to Mr Sangay, the fact Dorje Shugden practitioners have their identity cards is proof that religious freedom exists. Unbeknownst to the world, many Tibetans acquire Indian, Nepalese and Bhutanese citizenship or just the passports for the last 30 years. These passports are not difficult to obtain. Using these passports they travel to various countries and within India. This does not need Lobsang Sangay’s or the CTA’s assistance. So no ID cards are necessary for Dorje Shugden practitioners as insisted by the CTA.
Tibet’s next generation are educated at the Tibetan Children’s Village School. Sadly for many of these children, their intellect and potential will be dampened by the lack of opportunities not generated by their leadership
We are not sure what question Mr Sangay was answering, because none of the students questioned the right of Shugden practitioners to have ID cards. For them, it is a given that every Tibetan has a fundamental right to an ID card, being a member of their community. Thus it is astonishing for Lobsang Sangay to even contemplate that it is an appropriate response to withhold someone’s ID card when the person does not worship a state-sanctioned religious deity. It reflects the Tibetan leadership’s very basic understanding of democracy, as well as the methods that they have contemplated to deal with the *Dolgyal issue. In fact, the reality is that when Dorje Shugden practitioners apply for their identity and travel papers, that is when they are identified as Shugden practitioners and thereafter face on-going persecution for their religious worship and faith.
An aerial view of the Tibetan Children’s Village School
The Prime Minister’s answers were full of contradictions, which is unsurprising because they were not the truth. After all, if his answers were truthful then they would never change, being factual in nature. One of the biggest contradictions was the Prime Minister’s claim that the CTA never created a separation between Dorje Shugden practitioners and the Tibetan population. In his answer to Student #2, Lobsang Sangay said that “from our side, no one has never restricted Dhogyal people from whatever they are doing.” Yet, in his answer to Student #3, the Sikyong brought up the existence of a Green Book that prohibits Dorje Shugden worshippers from participating in the Middle Way political process. This prohibition is a separation itself, and it is proven by the CTA’s officially-sanctioned Green Book AND the resolutions passed by the CTA denying Dorje Shugden practitioners’ their rights to freedom of religion, worship and practice. The existence of this Green Book and the resolutions clearly contradicts Lobsang Sangay’s claim that “From our side, no one has never restricted Dhogyal people from whatever they are doing.”
When confronted by students about the ban on Dorje Shugden, Prime Minister Lobsang Sangay was visibly irritated by their sincere questions. But why the irritation if what you have to say is the truth?
To Students #1 and #2, Lobsang Sangay said that the separation of the monasteries is a problem. To Student #6, Lobsang Sangay said that the separation reflects the freedom that Shugden practitioners have to open their own monasteries and centres. Does the Sikyong not realise that the separation of the monasteries does NOT show religious freedom? That it shows Shugden monks were forced to leave their monasteries, because they could not practice in peace there? Why open new, smaller institutions and risk a lack of support and funds, and the threat of closure, if they were not forced out of their original monasteries? If they were not expelled, why not just stay in their original institutions with their teachers and friends, and have guaranteed access to shelter and education? It is incredible to think that Lobsang Sangay, a Harvard-educated individual, does not see how many contradictions he presents to his audience in such a short span of time. He does not respect the intelligence of his own Tibetan population. It is also very short-sighted of Mr. Sangay to keep insisting on and promoting the belief that it is religious freedom for the monasteries to separate…when has separation and division ever resulted in growth and unity for any society? If Mr Sangay truly does not “want Tibet become like India and Pakistan”, he should reconsider whether this separation of the monasteries is something he should continue to rejoice in as a sign of religious freedom and progress.
Student #6 also asked Lobsang Sangay about the signs on restaurants and shops discriminating against Dorje Shugden practitioners. Mr Sangay responded saying that the CTA never separated anyone. Yet, Lobsang Sangay never answered the student’s question about the existence of the signs, in the same way his administration remains silent on them. To remain silent on the signs is the CTA giving their indirect approval for them. And why was Lobsang Sangay not able to refute the existence of the signs directly and completely? Why did he avoid the topic? Because he cannot deny the personal experience of the students who saw for themselves the existence of signs banning Shugden practitioners from restaurants and shops.
Student #2 wanted to know if any dialogue had been initiated with Dorje Shugden practitioners. The Sikyong claimed attempts had been made, but was unable to provide proof of such attempts
The Sikyong told the students that the CTA had tried to initiate dialogue with Shugden practitioners “since ‘75, and especially from 1995”. We at DorjeShugden.com would like to request the Sikyong provide proof of such dialogue, or proof of attempts at dialogue. There has never been any proof or record of dialogue with Dorje Shugden practitioners. If the Sikyong wishes to make such claims, DorjeShugden.com requests him to provide correspondence to back up these claims that there have been attempts to initiate dialogue. Up until now, there are no transcripts, audio recordings, video recordings or even photographs that would back up such a statement.
This same request for evidence could be applied to the accusation that Dorje Shugden practitioners commonly face, which is that we receive money from Chinese sources. Student #4 saw through the ridiculous nature of this accusation, telling Lobsang Sangay that Shugden-practicing students are poor (no doubt thanks to the lack of opportunities for their parents due to the discrimination instituted by the leadership). Notice how the Prime Minister does not reply to the student by insisting that the accusation is the truth. If the accusation were true, why does Lobsang Sangay not stick to that accusation as an answer? Why does he change his answer to say that Dorje Shugden practitioners are intent on “harming the name and fame of the Dalai Lama”? One cannot help but wonder if Lobsang Sangay was reluctant to insist on the accusation, because he was nervous that the student might ask him to provide proof of these accusations.
Should Tibet gain autonomy, the CTA will have to rethink their ban on Dorje Shugden which does not match the Chinese government’s policies on religious freedom
In fact, the CTA may wish to consider a change in strategy towards the Dorje Shugden ban. Since they claim that China is behind the protests, why not release the ban (therefore ending the protests) and see how the Chinese government reacts? Since the Tibetan leadership is keen to be a thorn in the Chinese government’s side, removing the cause of the protests altogether (by releasing the ban) will mean that the Chinese leadership no longer has any alleged influence on the Tibetans who practice Dorje Shugden.
The Tibetan leadership also need to consider how they will continue implementing the ban in Tibet should they be granted the autonomy they clamour for. China practices religious freedom and allows Dorje Shugden practice. Therefore if China grants autonomy to the Tibetans, it will mean that the Tibetan leadership’s ban of Dorje Shugden will have no meaning or real power; being the larger nation, China’s policies override those of the Tibetan leadership’s. What will happen then? Will the Tibetan leadership release the ban on Dorje Shugden, or insist that the Chinese allow them to continue banning this deity and thus risk offending the Chinese leadership? The Tibetan leadership needs examine whether their policies on individual issues contribute effectively to their larger goal of autonomy.
Since it is clear that Shugden practitioners are not receiving money from Chinese sources, supporters of the Tibetan leadership’s ban also need to contemplate what benefit there is for Shugden practitioners to continue protesting against the leadership. First, it makes Dorje Shugden practitioners look unreasonable in the eyes of the people who blindly support the Dalai Lama. Second, as demonstrated by Student #4’s experience, Dorje Shugden practitioners do not receive a financial reward for the protests. Since Dorje Shugden practitioners gain neither fame nor money from the protests, what other reason would there be for them to protest, if not because of the suppression, discrimination and ostracization that they suffer because of the illegal ban?
The Tibetan leadership constantly accuse Dorje Shugden practitioners of receiving money from Chinese sources. However, their own lack of financial transparency is disconcerting and maybe questions should be asked about how the leadership funds their work and activities such as the ban on Dorje Shugden
These protests just may grow and if the Tibetan leadership is not careful, may even begin to include more and more Tibetan youth. After all, as demonstrated by this group who confronted Lobsang Sangay, the new generation of Tibetans will not be as afraid or blinded by the CTA or the Dalai Lama. Student #6 in fact, had the courage to politely demand Mr Sangay to consider that “Dhogyal people are also Tibetan, and they have Tibetan blood and bones. Being Tibetan, give them rights to religion. Even in India has this rights called “secularism ethic” so, I think we should also follow that rules.”
It is personal experience of the ban here that has given the students the upper hand in exposing the Tibetan leadership’s hypocrisy and lies in their answers. Students were not only asking questions but they were explaining their own personal experience about their Dorje Shugden friends being persecuted and oppressed. Therefore at the ground level, there are persecutions that Tibetans can see for themselves despite the CTA’s denials, and young Tibetans are increasingly unhappy about the disunity being generated by the ban. As the Tibetan youth continue to be more exposed, they are getting braver in seeking justice for ALL of their Tibetan brothers and sisters, and not just for non-Shugden worshippers.
The problem is that there is no culture of questioning authority in Tibetan society. And the problem for Lobsang Sangay is that these were just children asking innocent, yet analytical, questions without any motivation to shame their leadership. Yet, when faced up against such innocence, the Tibetan leadership had no choice but to expose their hypocrisy and lies once again. The other problem for Lobsang Sangay is how respectful these children were of the Dalai Lama. It meant Lobsang Sangay was unable to accuse them of being against the Dalai Lama, although they asked questions he did not like, because they demonstrated traditional Tibetan etiquette of revering the Dalai Lama. The fact they were all also fully Tibetan meant Lobsang Sangay could not accuse them of being foreigners with a poor understanding of Tibetan society.
Sikyong Lobsang Sangay arriving at the Tibetan Children’s Village School. Such warm welcomes may become a thing of the past if the Tibetan leadership continue to lie to their next generation
It is refreshing to see intelligent young Tibetans compare the CTA’s farcical democracy and those of other genuine democracies. The CTA’s version of democracy could never compare. Why are large sectors of Tibetan people segregated and marginalized due to their religious practice? The youths can see in India where most were born and raised, that no such democracy exists in Tibetan society. Within the Indian society, religion is not an issue and the government never interferes with the religious beliefs of its population. The CTA located in Dharamsala, North India has not learned genuine democracy from their host country in the 50 over years they have been there. However the 150,000 Tibetan exiles in India, especially the educated new generation, are seeing through the untruths. The CTA is losing their grip as we can see clearly in this video. In simple terms, this video was another huge public relations disaster for Prime Minister Lobsang Sangay, their ban and CTA. It does not show democracy but how their lies are being questioned.
After the passing of the Dalai Lama, which we hope will not be soon, the Tibetan youth will not care regarding “Dolgyal” and the old way of doing things. As it is, with the Dalai Lama alive, they are already seeing through the lies and deception, and they are questioning the establishment now. The more the CTA lies, the more these youth will realise their leadership is hypocritical. In this way, the CTA are being short-sighted by undermining their own power base, and disillusioning the people who will vote for them in the future. In fact, if the CTA was smart, they would court these youngsters by being open, honest and a true democracy, to build support for the future. If the Tibetan leadership wishes to make democracy a reality in Tibetan society, they have to be prepared to be confronted by questions from Tibetans who are becoming increasingly frustrated with the lies and hypocrisy that their leaders feed to them. The first step to this would be the lifting of the unfair, illegal and undemocratic ban against Dorje Shugden practice. The ban must come down now.
*Dolgyal is the Tibetan leadership’s derogatory way for referring to Dorje Shugden
西藏青年针对多杰雄登议题向洛桑森格提问
English
Indonesia
Tibetan
Gaz
June 12, 2014
What I want to know is what exactly this guy learned in Harvard. He is a trained lawyer who basically got stumped by a bunch of school kids. What an embarrassment. If this is the best the Tibetans have for a leader in the post-Dalai Lama era, I worry for them truly. Because here in the UK, even if our leaders are rubbish, we have plenty more to choose from. Our leaders are also able to take questions from school kids, even if the questions are regarding the lies and illegal wars we initiate around the world. This bloke on the other hand, seems to have trouble comprehending the question, let alone providing a straightforward answer. After watching all 15mins of it, I find myself wondering what was his point aside from the fact everyones got ID cards (not something to shout about anyway, what power does a Tibetan ID card give you?). Well of course he cant answer any of it because he wasnt expecting anyone to speak up against him, and to ask him such difficult questions. He wasnt expecting his Tibetan kids to have the balls to put him in a corner with such innocent requests. Tough going Lobsang Sangay. Ye tried and ye failed at pretending to be open and accepting of all differences and opinions. Better luck next time.
Thupten Lhundrup 图登伦珠
June 12, 2014
Now we’re talking sense. These wonderful children of the TCV must be following closely on the news of the Dorje Shugden ban and observed some inconsistencies of the CTA and of course the laid down ban. Now that they have brought everything up to the Sikyong himself, there’s no way to hide (literally with this video made public) the truth from the world. Of course the Sikyong would only deny these facts and defend the CTA but the point is these kids know what’s happening, it is just too apparent for them not to know as it is happening within their community where they live in. People including children are deprived of essentials such as food and education because of the Dorje Shugden Ban. Let alone their travel documents and also personal identification. This questioning and bringing it up in public will put more pressure onto the CTA to back down with their plans.
It is very wonderful to see that these kids hold a pure view of HHDL and have identified that the people working in the CTA has misconstrued everything to their own benefit. Kudos to them as it will serve them good in the spiritual path on the long run! May the truth prevail!
Trinity
June 12, 2014
Bravo for those young students that wish to finding out the truth hence speaking up against the ban, and recognizing its unfair and undemocratic nature.
Those young students did a good job and efforts through research to pointing out the Discrimination, Religion freedom and more issue to Lobsang Sangay, but the answer is totally contradictory in the video such as;
“In his answer to Student #2, Lobsang Sangay said that “from our side, no one has never restricted Dhogyal people from whatever they are doing.”
Yet, in his answer to Student #3, the Sikyong brought up the existence of a Green Book that prohibits Dorje Shugden worshippers from participating in the Middle Way political process. This prohibition is a separation itself, and it is proven by the CTA’s officially-sanctioned Green Book AND the resolutions passed by the CTA denying Dorje Shugden practitioners’ their rights to freedom of religion, worship and practice. ”
So in my understanding is that create a policy to district others as Green Book and not allowing others to enter certain places is STILL CONSIDER religion freedom and no DISCRIMINATION arise ??
Please CTA dun bring ur mistakes to the new generation, now is the era of social media CTA will not be covered their mistakes so easily… May more and more young generation review the truth especially from DS.com hence to help to bring the BAN down as soon possible…
Eli
June 12, 2014
CTA policies of discriminating against Dorje Shugden practitioners can no longer be covered under a veil. The world is watching. The fact that so many students went up to talk about the issue of Dorje Shugden means that the Sikyong did not answer the first question correctly and honestly.
Lets talk Tibetan unity, without going into details, even young Tibetans know
there are the normal tibetans and those that practice Dorje Shugden. And they
are aware there is a difference. Difference so much so some of the students say they actually discriminate against them. This is not a common bullying in high
schools, the kids recognise a kind of an apartheid like those in the US in the
1950′s or South Africa. Though all tibetans look the same, dress the same but
there is a difference. Even young tibetans they know about how in the South
(in the US racial polarisation was in the South too), monks or people are
discriminated on a daily basis.
As long as CTA upholds the ban Tibetans are not united. Without a united nation
forget about freedom when CTA oppresses its own people. Effects resembling
the Causes, this is the law of karma. Sikyong STOP lying to the planet and your own people
Steve Lee
June 12, 2014
Ohhh wow! I am flabbergasted and glad that the new educated Tibetan kids are finally seeing through the ban and the outright lies. The ban has definitely no place in Tibetan exiled society this is seeking independence. The ban definitely definitely separates Tibetans and creates huge chasm rendering the Tibetan cause a faraway dream. This has been raised in several old articles on Dorjeshugden.com and one of this is called Democracy or Division.
This is summed up brilliantly at the end of the article…
“At a time when the leaders are demanding greater freedom for the Tibetan people, we can only question why they are restricting the individual freedoms and rights of their own people. It is exceptionally sad that this is happening within what is already a very small community, and taken to such an extent that the basic freedoms of religion and speech are surreptitiously prohibited. Understanding the difficulties that the exiled Tibetan people have had to suffer in the last five decades, it would only seem logical that the leaders would actively encourage personal, individual freedoms, truth and objectivity. Instead, it has only become more and more apparent that they are increasingly meddling in personal battles – as in the case of their alleged involvement with RFA personnel – and individuals’ religious choices – such as the Dorje Shugden ban.”
I hope the kids read this website and get to know the truth of the matter.
thinley
June 12, 2014
I really wish His Holiness and our Sikyong-lak sees this news because so many important questions asked by the children which is the truth. Tibetan peoples will not dare to ask this type of questions because we are afraid what will happen if we ask. Village will not like us, they say we are not real Tibetan, they say we are chinese spies, they say we are dolgyal people. Even me who is not Shugden practitioner, they will say the same thing and then my family will be having many problems.
These school children they are born in India, they know about democracy, they live in free society, they know english and they know how to use computer. They learn lots more than older Tibetan people and what they ask is truth. They are Tibetan in the mind, but they are modern Tibetan.
Sikyong-lak must give respect to them, don’t look so angry. He is their leader also. They are young and they are important to Tibetan’s future. Much more benefit to explain properly, so everyone can understand the answer. Because on http://bod.asia/ government is talking the same things about Shugden everyday so they must have the proof and the answers. If it is not possible to answer then something is not good. Then must say sorry and you are wrong.
We are not like old Tibetan style anymore. Last time Tibetans only stay in Tibet, not going out, not knowing new things, every thing is ok. Now we going to USA, France, Switzerland, things are different now. Inside every country it is allowed to ask the government why they doing things that make people not happy, and to make protest and demonstration if there is a problem. CTA need to learn about this. Be the real government, learn the real democracy way, have dialogue. Even the children knows this now.
My friends is very much suffering from what His Holiness is doing with Shugden. It is difficult for them. I think it is already enough problems happening to our people. Bod Rangzen is for all Tibetans not only some.
Thank you also to dorjeshugden.com team for letting more people know about this and what is happening. It is very much important.
Spirit Worshipper
June 12, 2014
LOL….Oh good Lord, those young and innocent kids got hold of Dr Lobsang Sangay’s balls! Sikyong you are exposed now by these bright kids and you are trying hard to contain yourself by lying against lies. How long more can you and your khasag pretend there is no discrimination and ostracism in your society? For how long more can you create schism and segregation in your society? Why mess up, suppress and undermine your countrymen?
Please be in the reality that you are living in the 21st century and no longer in ancient Tibet. The Shugden discrimination has affected millions of diversified nationalities since this a mainstream Gelug practice which has become a global phenomena. All nationalities of Shugden practitioners will fight CTA (a weak stateless community dependent on donations) to the end. CTA will have every thing to loose. Better CTA do not make an embarras
sment and a fool of yourselves before it is too late. Lift the ban now!
Solomon Lang
June 12, 2014
I salute the Tibetan students for asking the incisive questions about the ban on Dorje Shugden. It is obvious that they are smart, respectful, idealistic, informed, concerned, logical and most of all, true to the nature of the dharma.
As the political leader of the Tibetan community in exile, the Sikyong Lobsang Sangay must practise what he preaches. He wines, dines and lobbies ambassadors, prime ministers, presidents and kings preaching autonomy, freedom and human rights for Tibet but yet in his very own backyard, cannot give a straight and truthful answer to the students’ questions.
Earlier this year in Dharamsala, the then outgoing US ambassador to China Gary Locke (just like the Sikyong, another fellow lawyer) urged Beijing to improve its human rights record.
He said rights are “universal” values that represent more than economic benefits.
“There’s been great prosperity and an increase in the quality of life and the standard of living here in China but human rights is more than economic prosperity and the economic conditions of people, but also fundamental universal rights — freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, the ability to practice one’s own religion.”
According to the AFP news agency, Ambassador Locke’s tenure was marked by his two visits to Tibet, which remained closed to foreign leaders and international media. He visited Tibetan areas in Ngaba in 2012, where majority of the self-immolation protests occurred, and capital Lhasa in 2013. In his meetings with the authorities, Locke lobbied for opening access to Tibet to foreign diplomats, journalists and tourists and stressed the “importance of preserving the Tibetan people’s cultural heritage, including its unique linguistic, religious and cultural traditions.”
He has repeatedly urged the Chinese leadership to engage in constructive dialogue with His Holiness the Dalai Lama or his representatives to resolve tensions in Tibet.
Pity all these efforts going to waste when the Sikyong cannot even get things right in his own backyard.
Sofia Neumerkel
June 12, 2014
What a dialogue between the leader and the students. I am surprised the students raised this issues in the meeting, I hope they will not be penalised like those who have participated in the protest in US and Europe recently. I wonder if CTA will also put the photos, names and house addresses of these students on the protester list.
These students are well exposed, intelligent and open-minded. They must have done a lot of researches on Shugden issue for them to question the leader. They cannot find a very logical reason for CTA to ban Shugden practices. CTA can deny all they want that Shugden practitioners are not discriminated and it was Shugden practitioners who are making troubles. They can maybe fool people who do not live in the Tibetan community, but they cannot fool people who are living in the communite. Many of the students here grow up in the Tibetan community and saw in their own eyes how Shugden practitioners are discriminated and marginalised.
I especially like what one of the students said. He said by suppressing and accusing Shugden practitioners, CTA is creating disharmony among Tibetan community and forcing Tibet to split. Thus, it is CTA who causes the separation among the Tibetan community.
CTA must be very stressful now as their lies will be exposed very very soon. Today it is the youth questioning CTA, tomorrow there will be more people questioning. If CTA continues to cover up the truth and think of more ways to accuse Shugden practitioners, they are playing with fire. When the young Tibetans lose their confidence in CTA, they will no longer support them. As a result, there is no point having CTA, when there is no CTA, no one will be there to free Tibet! So who jeopardise ‘Free Tibet’?? CTA!!!
wangchen
June 12, 2014
THESE YOUNGSTERS ARE THE NEWEST DIGITAL GLOBAL CITIZINS OF TIBET and they want to have this 370 year old INTERNAL and now also EXTERNAL CRISES once for all be solved with fair dialogues.
The older generations have much to loose even if they speak against CTA,leave apart HH Dalai Lama.
The Tibetan generation is changing fast with the global digital innovation and now CTA`s mindset must change in order to survive as it is.
In Digital Age, every move on this earth is registered and there is no escape from statements like: I / WE NEVER SAID, I / WE NEVER SEEN, I / WE NEVER DID, I / WE NEVER HAVE, I / WE NEVER LIED ……ETC.
Lin Hong
June 12, 2014
Shame shame on CTA and Lobsang Sangay. Basically Lobsang Sangay was not answering the questions from the students, he was just saying what he wanted to say. That is not the right attitude for a prime minister.
True that what Lobsang Sangay said were all contradicted and TWISTED! Even after a student said he saw discrimination/bully towards Shugdenpa with his own eyes in Tibetan communities in India, Lobsang Sangay was still able to say there is NO DISCRIMINATION at all towards Shugdenpa. Lobsang Sangay not only avoid the questions raised by the students, he even twisted the answer around to make him and CTA look good! How sad it is.
I found a few points that Lobsang Sangay made are very ‘entertaining’ and at the same time, it really makes me angry. Lobsang Sangay claimed CTA has been trying to communicate with the Shugdenpa but there were monks been killed(violence occured) and monasteries were separated…so all faults go to Shugdenpa?? Why there will be these conflicts and separation if it wasn’t the ban on Dorje Shugden?? If there was no ban on Shugden(which is the REAL RELIGION FREEDOM not the version CTA claimed they give to all the Tibetans), then there will be no violence, there will absolutely no separation between the monasteries! Who is the one who created the ban? Why the ban is not blamed but those who suffer under this ban is blamed? All these are the results of the ridiculous ban.
In the video above Lobsang Sangay even said the accusation made by Shugdenpa are the same as the Chinese. Well, this really makes me laugh! Maybe Lobsang Sangay or CTA cannot understand English and Chinese well enough to understand what people wanting from you? What Shugdenpa wants is religion freedom, to be able to practice Dorje Shugden without receiving any kind of threat or harm. Does Shugdenpa ever wanted anything else other than this??
Lobsang Sangay asked Shugdenpa to stop harming the non-Shugdenpa? If this is real, then the Shugdenpa should appeared in this talk, shouting at Lobsang Sangay or shouting at the non-Shugdenpa students in the hall. Why we don’t see this? Because Shugdenpa is the one who has been bullied, who has being harmed therefore we don’t see Shugdenpa attending talks/conference/teachings in the Tibetan communities in India. The truth is we can never see Shugdenpa talk in the public in Tibetan community in India, we can never listen to their voice and thoughts. So Lobsang Sangay, stop twisting the truth, THE WORLD IS WATCHING AT YOU!
Lobsang Sangay insisted that CTA gives religion freedom to Shugdenpa, giving proves like there are Shugden monasteries. The so-called religion freedom IS NOT REAL FREEDOM because it is ‘given’ to Shugdenpa on the basis of discrimination! Because CTA keep telling the Tibetan not to associate with Shugdenpa, Shugdenpa is bad, they are China’s spies, they are worshiping spirit and harming the Dalai Lama’s life! These are all the proves of how CTA discriminate Shugden practitioners and they dare to say this is religion freedom?? There is NO EQUANIMITY in this case, if EQUANIMITY is lack in freedom, what kind of freedom is this? I would say that is a twisted kind of freedom or FAKE FREEDOM!
I am extremely happy to see the young generation of Tibetans can see the hypocrite of their government and they dare to speak up and ask the prime minister DIRECTLY AND WITH SO MUCH OF RESPECT. They are really well-educated in the sense that they know manners and they practice rationality. They look things with sense of logic because truth is always associated with logic, the young kids are looking for something that is logical, which is the truth, and which is what the CTA trying so hard to hide. I am very proud of the students/Tibetan youngsters to have vision of their own country, they are looking for unity of their own people, they are looking for real freedom and equanimity.
The CTA should feel ashame that they can’t give sincere answer to the sincere questions asked by the sincere students. At the same time I hope CTA would not take actions to go against these young kids for speaking up the truth that you don’t like. THE WORLD IS WATCHING AT YOU CTA! If you ever stop the youngster from talking or questioning, YOU ARE THE DICTATOR that cannot be accepted in today’s world and you better get ready to step down CTA.
peter
June 12, 2014
these kids must be paid by the chinese harliners for thier pocket money or they must be related with or to shugden people. They must be mad after taking all these years scholarship from CTA and now behaving so unexpectedly.
i think now sikyon or CtA is put out off their monotonous concept of charging without bases.
what will be the next move from both sides ????????
Jade
June 12, 2014
Yeah! I am so glad to see this and I rejoice that smart, young, intelligent Tibetans are speaking up. Because what they’ve been told and what they themselves have seen and heard and read with their own eyes sure is contradictory! And it’s about time because you can’t keep covering up with lies and think people won’t notice CTA!
Tibetan Youth are not illiterate and uneducated like their parents or fore fathers and CTA you’ve belittled and underestimated your people for far to long. Looks like you are running out of lies, to cover, times up! You’ve deceived your own people and created so much disunity, it’s about time you are questioned for your blatant acts of discrimination!
Where is the so called dialogue you Mr. Sangay claim to have been trying to have with Dorje Shugden leaders? Prove it if it was true please as we have been urging you and the Dalai Lama for one!
These young impressionable Tibetans, who are sincere, innocent and genuine can see through the contradictions and well, everyone knows if there is a monastery for Shugden practitioners only means there is a separation and who cause this separation? Isn’t it due to the ban? It is not because of religious freedom, what a load of baloney! I am sure these young intelligent Tibetans are going to go back and discuss amongst themselves and realise that with different students, the answers contradicts and some totally ignored and diverted. Now what are you going to say that these young Tibetans are Chinese spies and are being paid by Chinese??? It would just make you more unfavourable.
Tibetans need to be united and hence the ban need to be lifted completely!!! Learn from you host country mother India and respect all religion please!
kris
June 12, 2014
After watching many videos of ill treatment of the Dorje Shugden practitioners by their own Tibetan people, finally we are seeing some hope in the new generations. From the actions of most of the Tibetans, it is clear that CTA is blocking the truth to the Tibetans, but as we are all aware, we are now in information age and blocking of information is difficult with internet. Younger generations can now access information from many sources, other than just from government controlled TV stations, radios and newspaper.
As a Harvard graduate, Lobsang Sangay didn’t live up to the standard of being open and democratic, and I would suppose all the experience and exposure he see in the US has all been thrown out of the window. What a shame.
Remember, the people who escaped Tibet during 1959 are getting old, and if the Tibetan cause is to continue, it will require the next generations, but when the next generation finds out about the lies and hypocrisies, the CTA will lose the respect of all the younger generation and still stop their fight for Tibetan cause. This is the risk CTA is taking and I am not sure if they are aware of it.
For the sake of unity, CTA must bring the ban down, NOW!
Jules
June 12, 2014
I wonder how such an ill educated man graduated from Harvard.
I am not surprised that the children have started questioning the CTA on their lies, deception and tales they tell to the world. These children have been educated in the schools outside of Tibet and have exposure to the world. I am not surprised as children brought up in India, they must have learnt the history of the times when India was the British’s colony and their own citizens were treated second class, such discrimination is obviously unfair and while that was practiced outwardly at that time, the discrimination towards Shugden practitioners,although very subtle to an outsider, is very real and obvious to those living in the community.
Young Tibetans these days are no longer the serfs that left Tibet with Dalai Lama, blind obedience and it is obvious that those that do not follow the Dalai Lama blindly will find the ban very wrong. With a more educated community, the CTA can’t lie anymore because they are being caught by their own people whom are no longer afraid to expose their corrupted ‘government’. This is a good sign for Tibetans in fact, it is a show of growth, and if the CTA aka the Sikyong is angry about this, then obviously they do not love Tibet as much as they claim to, as Autonomy can only be achieved when people of their nationality improves.
I am not surprised if the younger generation, whom are the future of CTA will make history for Tibetans and show how foolish these old group of CTA are. If I was China, I wouldn’t want an Autonomous region within my country, where the governing body does not abide the national rule but instead follow one man’s word, the Dalai Lama.
Excellent article, this will open many people’s eyes and minds to think deeper on this issue.
Doreen Park
June 12, 2014
I rejoice that young intelligent educated Tibetans are speaking up and questioning the Tibetan Government ,politely and respectfully, about the horrendous and unfair treatment of Dorje Shugden practitioners, resulting from the ban.
From their own observation, they have been able to conclude that freedom of religion is a farce where the Tibetan government is concerned: and that they are only paying lip service to Democracy.
The young Tibetans can see how their poor friends and peers who practice Shugden do not have the trappings of wealth, which should have been theirs if their parents were in the pay of the Tibetan government as their spies. Contradictions of statements and claims made by the Tibetan leadership concerning the Shugden practitioners were clearly seen and registered by these youths. .
This is the 21st Century and there is no way in which the draconian methods of the CTA in dealing with the Shugden practitioners, who defy the ban, can be condoned. Now, for the first time , their own youths(their leaders of tomorrow) are questioning them.
sierra
June 12, 2014
It is very good to see the next generation growing up very aware of what is happening around them in relation to the world. They are looking and seeing, hearing and listening and generally unafraid to seek answers by asking the hard questions. They seek only the truth. Their heads are right where it belongs. Hats off to them
D. Bear
June 12, 2014
It took a lot of courage for the young men to speak up like that and question the Tibetan leadership. Remember they are still in a community in which to question the leadership means they risk being accused as traitors. The comment by “peter’ above is an example – to suggest that the young people of Tibet would sell out their own country and beloved Dalai Lama for “pocket money” is amazing. That statement is an insult to Tibetans.
The TCV is run by the Dalai Lama’s sister and as you can imagine it is definitely not anti-Dalai Lama or CTA and the sentiments voiced by the young people must be something that has been disturbing them for some time. They see for themselves how unfair the ban is and the effects it has had. In fact they are not even pro-Shugden but their statements reflect that they are anti-inequality and anti-disunity. They see the importance of harmony, something the entire CTA and Dalai Lama department have failed to see or too scared to acknowledge.
This is the sort of discussion the elected representatives of the people should be having in Parliament. This is the kind of issues that should be raised and tackled by the political and spiritual leadership if indeed there is to be a ‘free’ Tibet. Instead boys are doing the job that men have been too scared or self serving to take on.
The issue at hand is not who or what Dorje Shugden is or isn’t. There is a more serious question – why is the CTA doing the job of the enemy i.e. splitting the Tibetan people and why are they doing what they accuse China of doing and how all these gravely affect the Tibetan society in exile and around the world.
If Lobsang Sangay is sincere, he must listen to the voices of Tibet’s future. He is after all supposed to provide a future for these young people. But even if he is not but instead a shrewd politician instead, he must surely see that the sentiment articulated by these young people are not exclusive to those who asked the questions,it is not exclusive to TCV, but must be pervasive within the exile community. As new generations of Tibetans grow up and learn more about the world they will come to see how archaic the CTA is and therefore ill equipped to take the people into the future. Lobsang Sangay can either be the model of their democratic aspirations or the politician they must vote out of power when the time comes.
This could be the start of the Tibetan spring.
Dorje Drakpa
June 12, 2014
When i saw this video for the first time i could not believe my eyes. This video is release by Tibetonline TV. Someone here implied that these children might be receiving money for CCP. On the contrary, I think this is yet one of CTA ‘s gimmick and this question and answer session is totally staged. I tried to register on this site just to let you guys know about this video.
Let us hope that CTA has positive motive behind this Video.
Andrea Louise
June 12, 2014
This is extremely surprising news to me. I was doing some research on Tibet and the Dalai Lama and have no clue who Dogyal or Shugden is. But it does not matter to me whether he is a god or a demon because it is a very subjective and it can’t be proven. I am a highly logical person so what appeals to me is the violation of human rights and how a group of people who are thrown out of their own country and are further bullied by their own government. So what the CTA is doing now is similar to what China did over 50 years ago. This must be brought to the attention of the United Nations as Article 18 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights declares for the freedom of religion. The battle for human rights in Tibet is extremely heart-breaking under the Chinese rule. Patriotic Tibetans immolated themselves just to get the attention of the UN and the member states.
But to know that amongst the Tibetans themselves, the iconic symbol of peace, the Dalai Lama has caused such damage to his own people is utterly atrocious.
Please petition to the UN and get your cause heard, Dorje Shugden people.
lotus
June 12, 2014
Bravo to the students!
With the exposure of internet and to the world, the Tibetan nations has grown to be more exposed, knowledgeable, open-minded and have logical thinking. They would be great leaders to lead Tibetan to unity next time! They are in the Tibetan community and witness that how the Shugden practitioners are discriminated by the society.
The students are asking very sincere and valid questions to Mr Lobsang Sangay. However, Mr Sangay has been beating around the bush and do not answer the truth.
1. He told that “the CTA had tried to initiate dialogue with Shugden practitioners since ‘75, and especially from 1995”. Can he show the prove? All this while CTA has been avoiding to conduct the dialog despite many requests from the Dorje Shugden practitioners.
2. It is clear that the students have noticed Shugden practitioners are poor but Mr Sangay still insist that they received financial reward from the Chinese.
3. Mr Sangay said that CTA gives Shugden practitioners freedom by letting them to have their own monastery. What logic is that? Shugden practitioners are force to leave their origin monasteries! In the recent incident, we can also see that anti-Shugden practitioners forced in to Domo Geshe monastery in Phedong (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/breaking-news-domo-geshe-rinpoches-monastery-in-phedong-attacked/ )
4. Mr Sangay keeps insisting that Shugden practitioners have their rights by having their ID cards. However, he keeps ignoring to answer the questions of the students on why they have seen and experienced that Shudgen practitioners are discriminated with their own eyes.
I especially like the statement made by Student #6. He is brave enough to politely request Mr Sangay to consider that “Dhogyal people are also Tibetan, and they have Tibetan blood and bones. Being Tibetan, give them rights to religion. Even in India has this rights called “secularism ethic” so, I think we should also follow that rules.”
The way that Mr Sangay replied was full of lies, without facts to support him and contradicting with his own answers.
I do hope CTA would not make the same mistake again. They should would lift the ban and unite all the Tibetan to show that they are truly democratic.
On a side note, I hope the students are safe and will not be penalized by their school or CTA like those participated in the protest and have their names and pictures being published on the CTA website.
ronykhan
June 12, 2014
The Mission of Tibetan Children’s Villages (TCV) – an integrated charitable organisation – is to ensure that all Tibetan children under its care receive a sound education, a firm cultural identity and become self-reliant and contributing members of the Tibetan community and the world at large. There are a few goals set up in TCV which includes, developing a sound understanding of Tibetan identity and culture; developing character and moral values; to provide suitable and effective life and career guidance for social and citizenship skills.
The motto of the school is “From the day we became refugees, our basic objective was to rise to the very place from where we have fallen down.”
- H.H. the Dalai Lama
The mission of TCV seems honorable and the right way to go for the future of Tibetan people. The young people that questioned the prime minister in the video were probably around the ages of 17-20. They were Tibetans. They grew up in Dharamsala, India. The Dalai Lama himself spends much time giving regular teachings in TCV. The young people seemed to regard the Dalai Lama very well. They seemed appreciative and in fact very polite, no hint of any intention to shame the Prime Minister. But they all have one common unanswered and unclear question ;- Why are there so many doubts and discrepancies over the practice of Dorje Shugden ?
The young people have managed to bring up many questions which point to irregularities , discrimination , lies, inconsistencies etc re the REAL situation of DS practitioners versus what is professed by the Dalai Lama and the CTA. They have a pure and unbiased mind. They were educated by the Dalai Lama and the CTA . But yet they find it hard to accept the current conditions re the whole DS Drama. They want answers. They want clarification. They want to know the truth. They want to know why everywhere that Dalai Lama travels to, there are calls for him to bring down the Ban. Why ? Why ? Why ?
Clearly, the answers given by the Prime Minister were rather wishy washy. Not convincing at all. In fact it was obvious that he was trying to move on by just covering his inabilities by more blames on the Shugdenpas. That reflects very poorly on him ! He should rewatch this video. He must feel rather silly if he does, cause with all due respect, the answers from him were pretty lame !
CTA have to re-look their policies and approaches. They are becoming irrelevant in today’s society if they continue to run their government in this manner. We are in the high technology era. Very hard to hide facts. Very hard to keep lying. The older generation of Tibetans may not have the culture to question outwardly, this will not be the same with the new generation of Tibetans. The CTA must speak the truth. They should not be afraid to have debates or dialoque with the Shugdenpas. Learn to face the music. Do not use suppressive methods. Deal with it and not hide behind the robes of the Dalai Lama. All they ask for is just religious freedom ! Bring down the BAN !
Michaela Smith
June 12, 2014
I could not believe that Lobsang Sangay, a Harvard educated prime minister of Central Tibetan Administration cannot respond directly to his people questions. He went round and round and not answering the queries straight. How this person actually graduate from this top university and let alone able to enter such institution if this is the way he answered queries? Where is his integrity?
I think he is shameless and I am very grateful that I am not living under his government. It must be very frustrating to live under such leadership.
H.T.Jung
June 12, 2014
I am glad to see that Tibetan younger generation now are able to think logically and voice out their doubts about this issue. Getting education in India, and with the help of internet, apparently they are braver than their previous generation who dared not say anything about the injustice towards DS practitioners.
If even school children are able to notice the unfair treatment towards DS practitioners, it clearly proved that this discrimination is so obvious among Tibetan community. CTA might have under estimated the power of education when their people are given opportunity to expose to a wider world which give them the ability to have a more balance and critical way of thinking.
Apparently Lobsang Sangay himself didn’t think about the whole Shugden issue thoroughly and logically enough, or perhaps he knows but due to his persuing of fame and status for his own benefit, he has chosen to stand on the “more influential” side. From the way he answered question, we can see that he is totally unprepared, not only he kept repeating the same irrelevant points, he also contradicting himself just as what was mentioned in this article.
If monks from same lineage can be in the same monasteries for more than 350 years, why need a separation? If this does not reflect the lack of religious freedom, I don’t know what a real religious freedom is.
If a great lama like H.H.Trijang Rinpoche who has contributed so much to Gelug lineage was forced to leave his own monastery out of no better choices, and His ladrang is now under care of Shar Gaden, where is the so-called religious freedom mentioned by Lobsang Sangay?
Mentioning the IC issue is the stupiest defend for Lobsang Sangay and CTA he represents. I really don’t think these young and intelligent Tibetan students will blindly accept his answers. I hope more and more young Tibetans are able to bring this issue out on official platforms for open discussion. Even if it can’t bring justice to DS practiotioners immediately, it certainly will help creating awareness on this issue among Tibetan community.
Michele Thorsen
June 12, 2014
These are great questions posed by Tibetan young people. In response, they are lied to by the Prime Minister about how Shugden practitioners have never been discriminated against, how the Dalai Lama’s government has tried to resolve the Shugden issue with dialogue, blah blah. Doesn’t the Central Tibetan Administration get tired of listening to their own lies?
Bonnie
June 12, 2014
I am so inspired and encouraged by the brilliance of these brave young Tibetans! I applaud them all and honor their integrity! They are thinking democratically, Dharmically, clearly, logically, wisely, respectfully, compassionately, and honestly.
They are not buying into the self-rationalizing behavior of discrimination, political agenda, superstition, and hatred. They are well informed about history; recognizing the potential of this crisis to turn into what could amount to a civil war, as expressed in the example of India and Pakistan.
Even though that example was essentially dismissed by Dr Sangay, in fact it’s a very real possibility.
These students know how to engage in authentic dialogue because they speak well and listen carefully and with respect. They are thinking like the global citizens we all need to become, thanks to receiving a good and broad-minded education. They are already leaders and role models. They are committed to doing the right thing and are not motivated by saving face before the world as much as by living by right, true, and good principles. When saving face launches any form of bullying, you know that something is wrong that needs to be righted. These students are doing their homework and are unafraid to speak the truth. I completely rejoice.
The old structures are crumbling beneath the weight of outmoded restrictions and wrong thinking. Make way for evolution, growth, and truth, These always come regardless of resistance. The impulse to freedom can never be for long suppressed. Just like a flower can grow even out of a crack in the sidewalk and reveal its beauty without trying.
Ray
June 12, 2014
How can a Prime Minister lie in front of their own youths the future leaders? There are so many blatant lies he is spouting of. On his side he see there is no discriminations but how about the Dorje Shugden practitioners? Do they feel discriminated? Do they feel being bullied? As long as you don’t feel it Prime Minister Lobsang Sangay, every Shugden practitioners who are being threaten and bullied, is their own delusions and wrong thinking? Whatever you said and acted can be justified because you’re right and Shugden practitioners are wrong?
Every question that is asked are responded with either blaming the Chinese and freedom to have IC, traveling IDs. You can have your ID and traveling IDs but still get discriminated.
Is this how a leadership act? I can’t imagine he can be a PM for the Tibetans?!
Dorje Drakpa
June 12, 2014
All these students are not born in exile and have escaped from Tibet very recently. They are not brain washed. How do I know? well, being a Tibetan I can tell from their Accent. I live among Tibetan community and more and more Tibetan are seeing this whole controversy as a House-wife politic. Tibetan people have forgot the Kindness of Master like Tri chang Rinpoche. When His Holiness took the responsible of Tibet he was just 16 years old. who do you think was behind His Holiness to manage daily work of running the Government? In 70′s and 80′s there was genuine sense of unity and peace among Tibetan people.My parents rely on Protector Dorje shugden but I really didn’t knew much about the Lineage. It is after the controversy and seeing Our Lama and monastery treated as pariah I began to learn about Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden. Now they are accusing that relying on Dorje shugden degenerate Buddha Dharma – Even after knowing fully well that we take refuge in Lama Tsongkhapa’s teaching ( whose Teaching is essence of Buddha’s Teaching )
It is high time before this whole issue becomes extremely ugly and tarnish the reputation of Tibetan Buddhism.
aurore
June 12, 2014
The youths are very clever! The Tibetan government refuses to hold a dialogue with the Shugdenpas upon many requests and demonstration. Here you have Tibetan youths taking the very opportunity to question Lobsang Sangay unexpectedly. This is how I see it.
I cannot wait to see new Tibetan youths taking over the leadership of the Tibetan community. When Lobsang Sangay became president, many was hopeful things will change. Sadly, it didn’t. Clearly the youths displayed more intelligence and substance in this question and answer session. This is the kind of attitude scholars and educated people should act and think. Stand on a neutral ground, research and make logical conclusion based on facts, real proofs and information gathered from all sides.
tashi wangchuk
June 12, 2014
This is the turning point for the new generation of Tibetans born after 1990 to take any serious facts as facts through doing self investigations,analysis and research. They are living in digital global era where space and time have no limits. This unavoidable social change does good for future new Tibet either under China or as a free country.
The few extreme fanatic old middle aged generation of Tibetans born between 1950 and 1970 have their extreme fanaticism inborn character is now gradually cleaned out from their daily malevolent social behaviour in Tibetan society in India,USA,Switzerland,Belgium,Germany,France and Tibet.
aston
June 13, 2014
Human Rights for Religion / Faith as social practice also includes worshipping any worldly or non-worldly spirits / gods etc:
they can be :
mountain spirit
water spirits
tree spirits etc etc…..
these are faiths in spirits or gods that any people from very small to very large group of people can worship. the number is not the issue by the UN Law but free to worship is the fundamental right under UN Human Right Law.
Thomas Canada
June 13, 2014
The Best effort we prepare is to insure the majority of these refugees find homes in other parts of the world . Where they might have a chance to make something of themselves after the Dalia Lama passes. Like seeds carried by the Winds~ These Pilgrims are still not Free to Be What They Themselves Might Dream to Be~~
Lobsang
June 13, 2014
I m begging u all please don’t make too much of denounce of frantical for ur own benefit special please don’t spread ur Myth belief in TCV
rossoneri
June 13, 2014
It is nice to know that the younger Tibetans are concern over the issue of Dorje Shugden and looking at the issue seriously. It shows them care and do not take an answer without questioning and thinking the logic behind those answer which CTA has been feeding to them (the older generation) for years.
No matter where did you graduated from it does not matter because a lie is a lie no matter how wonderful you’ve tried to cover up from the truth.
Aesir Ragnorak
June 13, 2014
Finally those in the Tibetan community are waking up to the fact that they can stand up to the CTA and demand answers for these unfounded policies of religious persecution. I am surprised it has taken this long as living in India, they are surrounded by people who exercise their religious freedoms on a daily basis and also their right to be able to question politicians.
I am over joyed that the Tibetan youth have finally had the courage to ask these tough questions which Sikyong-la is obviously irate about in his answering. It speaks to the inadequacies of this preparation in attending this event, that he obviously didn’t think that this subject was going to be mentioned, as if he did he would prepared himself for this.
It seems that this unbearable situation is gaining ground, even among the non-practicing Tibetan population themselves. This persecution, which is exactly what it is, will not go unnoticed by the masses any longer and even those who have noticed have been shown the inadequacies of their government and leaders, and will question more and more what is happening, and how it is effecting the lives of so many people. This marks the another mile stone in the battle to bring down this ban of religious persecution.
joshua
June 13, 2014
From this dialogue, it is very clear to see CTA denial of the ‘accusations’ from the younger tibetan generation. They are actually speaking from what they have seen, observed, analyse and come to the conlusion that the ban is bad and must be addressed. CTA is similar to China policy towards the tibetans people especially HHDL followers, China is in denial of suppressing tibetans whereas CTA is in denial of suppressing and harming DS practitioners.
If the tibetans has conclude that DS policy is a cause of separation of the Tibetan people, They should unite and speaks in public and gain official media exposure.
Sikyong and his team must have regretted the recording of the entire session and i foresee the next public talk will not be recorded if they are guilty. Let’s see.
H.Gypsy
June 13, 2014
The dialogue shows how the new generation would not simply abide to what was fed to them by the society. They think, study ,investigate & question. Bravo!
I particularly love the part at 11:34 where this youth raised a very good question which he stressed there should not be separation among Tibetan community. Dhogyal practitioners and other Tibetans should share the same rights as they are all Tibetans. It’s not right to discriminate Dhogyal practitioners. He also mentioned that even if Tibet becomes free in the future, there will be possibilities of dividing Tibet into half due to this religion restrictions.
This student can think deep. He is looking at a bigger picture and how the side effects of this ban would bring greater separation among Tibetans in the future. He doesn’t see this ban as something bad but he is more concern of the welfare of whole Tibetan community.
shugden
June 13, 2014
Of course there had been and still ostracising and segregating shugdenpas in India,mostly in Tibetan settlements and in schools. They are looked upon as having contagious diseases and kept these shugdenpa tibetans at arms length form in any social feasts or gatherings.
Even in modern countries like Switzerland where there are 3500 tibetans living since 1962, the situation is even worse by indirectly segregating these outlaw shugdenpas during any public feasts like Tibetan new years,10.march, hh dalai lama`s birthday etc.
In 2006-2007 there was a self initiated tibetan group called Anti-Shugden party who went to collect signatures from door to door. Those who didn`t sign the document were at once considered publicly ” Outlaw Of CTA “. Such undertaking by such group sponsored by CTA was and still against Swiss Federal Law of Private Sphere Law. This group is still going strong and still publicly attacking those Shugdenpas or will-be ones when ever the chance is there.Many swiss shugdenpas are so segregated that they are not even looked at them on streets or elsewhere. This is still going on in fluent rich modern country like switzerland. I can very well understand this kind of social outcasting situation in India,Nepal and Tibet even 100 % worse.
This is time for social upheaval and to modernise in the right direction with sound substances like any other western countries.
Manjushri
June 13, 2014
It is nice to see the purity and sincerity of these kids in questioning Lobsang Sangay to clear their doubts and to understand what their government in exile is doing to address obviously important issues that are disturbing the unity of Tibetans at the very moment. They also have the foresight to see how this issue on a longer term can harm Tibetans in the future if not solved now.
In answering to Student 1 and 2, Lobsang Sangay has said that there is no way to solve the DS issue through communication, and yet he says that they have been trying since 1975 and especially in 1995. That’s like yonks ago! Why don’t they try again given the recent rise in awareness of the DS issue and many calls for a dialogue. Also, student 2 asked if there Is any discussions or communications like that, if yes what are the outcomes of it? – So what are the outcomes of the communications that they have held, as claimed by Lobsang Sangay. Also, what is the point of bringing up about the geshela and his 2 students being murdered? It is so out of point from the questions raised. What’s Lobsang sangay trying to insinuate by saying that? Saying that monasteries are separated is saying that there is an issue, a separation between its people.
Lobsang Sangay keeps saying that DS practitioners are under Chinese control and influence. Why aren’t China coming out to show support strongly if they are? There’s nothing to hide because China is so much more powerful in today’s world standing, and there is no need for them to hide and buy Ds practitioners to protest against their goevernment. It doesn’t make sense. The prime minister is beating around the bush and did not directly give an appropriate answer to the very good questions that were raised. It is funny that such uncompetance can be displayed, through the questioning of young rising intelligent Tibetan students.
Student 4 also noted that people are practising DS for reasons beyond money. So he is asking the Prime Minister to think why they are practising DS even after knowing the consequences they are and will face, but their faith in practising Dorje Shugden is still so strong. Why? Indirectly, he is stating that DS is good, otherwise why would they be doing that?
Additionally, the PM said that the Umeylam is related to every Tibetan so every individual support for Umeylam is very very important. But Student 3 mentioned that people who support Umeylam should be non ds practitioners. So indirectly again, the PM is enforcing the a ban and a restriction for individual rights to practise DS! Also, if there is no ban or suppression, why were there attacks by sangha, laypeople (organized by the Tibetan leadership) on Dokhang Khangtsen? Because of this, there needed to be a separation in the moanstery! SO it does not mean that there is religious freedom.
What are Dorje Shugden practitioners’ intentions for harming the Dalai lama? It is the Dalai Lama that brings Buddhism to the world, if they wanted to harm the Dalai lama, they would’ve done it long ago. Their message to Dalai Lama has been the same consistently – which is to lift the ban and give the rights to practise to all. In fact, Ds practitioners support the Dalai Lama and very much would like to go to his teachings, but they are not allowed to. If they wanted to go against the Dalai lama, the dalai lama, and the CTA wouldnt need to acknowledge that DS practitioners would like to go to his teachings…if they were against the Dalai Lama, why would they want to attend anyways? So for them to put signs to say that DS practitioners are not allowed into teachings of His Holiness, they are in fact acknowledging that these practitioners are not against HH.
If CTA wants Tibetan unity, the ban has to come down. It’s as simple as that. Remove the root cause of what’s dividing its people.
Dharmacrazy79
June 13, 2014
Change is an inevitable process and the CTA cannot contain, restrict and control these youths as they did the past generations. As Lord Buddha taught, wisdom is the antidote to ignorance and with the access to infinite information and knowledge through the internet, it is almost impossible to limit what the tech-savvy youths can learn from the Internet.
I could not help but think: “how much did DS.com contribute to developing in depth knowledge about the ban to these students who were able to join the dots and identify the discrepancies in the governing body. DS.com has provided so much information about Dorje Shugden and the controversy in an interactive and educational manner, which must attract and stimulate the minds of the youths.
Unlike the older generation who was conditioned into submitting to authority, the society of our modern era is encouraged to question and debate to develop clear understanding that allows acceptance. Although we state that the modern generation is speaking up and seeking explanation for their observation, the culture of debating has been a vital part of the Gelugpa lineage since its establishment. This reiterates arguments stating that the CTA is primitive method of operation eliminates the opportunity to question, debate and develop understanding, which contradicts the teachings of the Buddha as well as those of Lama Tsongkapa.
I strongly agree with the statement that if the CTA does not improve its approach to match up to the times, the respect currently offered out of goodwill and culture will soon end. It would be a shame because, the Dalai Lama did accomplish quite the impossible feat of spreading the teachings of Lord Budddha to the entire Western hemisphere.
Pema Claudia Yangchen
June 14, 2014
Thank you Dorjeshugden.com for this article. I am inspired to see young Tibetan students who spoke well and also posed questions that reflect analytical thinking, not intimidated by the Prime Minister or the situation. From the Prime Minister’s reaction, it looks like they may have underestimated the youth.
I do respect the Sikyong, don’t get me wrong. However, his answers that were full of contradictions and twisted lies reflect the absurdity of this ban, it is not that the Sikyong were unable to give good answers, but it is merely there are no intelligent logical answers to begin with. Why does the CTA still insist on this absurd ban?
One of the outright lies is that there were attempts for dialogue with Shugden practitioners. If there were, there will not be protests worldwide, especially the ones in 2010 in New York. Watch how the Tibetan representative responded to the desperate protestors in the past. Perhaps this is the best and only ‘dialogue’: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4s5SFv8mE
There will be no dialogue because there simply is no logical explanation of the ban – as reflected in the question asked by one of the students.
Contrary to what the Sikyong said, the separation of the monasteries meant there were no religious freedom to begin with and the outcasts had to be relocated somewhere, separated from the ‘mainstream’ monasteries. Sikyong’s response about the equality and non-discriminatory by bringing up the issue of ID cards, it is really a put down to the intelligent and inquisitive youth from the TCV school.
I am sure the TCV children will become more confused after the talk, however, their questions showed that they were not as blinded by the truth as some other Tibetans who does not question the validity of the ban and just curse their fellow Tibetans who were Shugden practitioners – some of them including old monks, and some who even escorted and protected the Dalai Lama on his escape out of Tibet.
Galen
June 14, 2014
A lie covering up another lie and another. That is why the Sikyong is in an irritable mood and inconsistent in his answers. It is really good that the students come up with so many learned questions and from the video, it really shows that they are concerned of the current situation and that they are genuine. It is from their own experience with their fellow Tibetans that they concluded that they are not influenced by the Chinese government because they still live poorly and that they see signs that discriminate Shugdenpas in their community.
One of the situation that caught my attention is that the Sikyong on one answer said that the practitioners have their freedom because they have their own monasteries and that they are free to practice what they want. Did he not realise that it is because of the discrimination and the inability to practice that the monasteries have to break up and divide themselves. If there were no discrimination, the monasteries would not break up at all!!!
It is great to see that young Tibetans have the courage to ask their Government when the see inconsistencies and seeking the truth.
Sarah
June 14, 2014
Two things stand out in this video – the courage of the young Tibetan students in asking the questions and the evasiveness and untruthfulness in the Sikyong’s replies. I was pleasantly surprised to see young Tibetans asking intelligent and well-informed questions about the discrimination against the Dorje Shugden practice. This new generation of Tibetans have access to the internet and are not afraid to address their Prime Minister if they find something wrong within the community. What is disappointing is the Sikyong’s attempt to deny that discrimination was practised against his own people. I hope the CTA will examine their behaviour, admit they have been wrong and remove the ban on Dorje Shugden’s practice. This way, they might retain some respect in the eyes of their community.
bambi
June 14, 2014
Yet another interesting post. It was really funny watching how Sikyong fidgeted and replied out of context and also telling more lies. I couldnt stop laughing. Nobody stopping DS practitioners from practicing, nobody is denying them entry or services? You got to be kidding me. Just answer the question truthfully why dont you. So what if a graduate? Cant even analyze truth and lies. Even someone as stupid as me know how to differentiate truth and lies…
And if we are so stupid to practice DS as Tibetans then what about the thousands of westerners out there? Are they stupid too?
If there is no ban and we can practice freely without discrimination, why are people requesting religious freedom and stop lying?
Lets not talk about DS practitioners being banned from restaurants, hospitals, education, what about monasteries? Why is it clearly written on the plaque?
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/petition-to-his-holiness-the-14th-dalai-lama/
And logically, if we are funded by the China govt, wouldnt we be like super rich and spread DS all over the world? Trust me, China has lots lots mots more than the CTA.
[Year 2008, Drepung Monastery, India]
Dalai Lama: These monks must be expelled from all monasteries without any hesitation. I fully support their actions. I praise them. If monasteries find taking action hard, tell them the Dalai Lama is responsible for this.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/whos-the-hypocrite/
How kind! Practitioners being threaten….
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/religiousfreedom02.jpg
Watch the videos here
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/breaking-news-domo-geshe-rinpoches-monastery-in-phedong-attacked/
Look at the conditions surrounding Serpom because they were practicing
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/serpom-monastery-almost-three-years-later/
And what about the controversies?
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/category/all-articles/the-controversy/
Johnson
June 14, 2014
The Central Tibetan Administration had made a big mistake for holding the Q & A session with the group of Tibetan students. Instead of trying to show the leadership’s openness and democracy, the consequence ended up on the contrary.
Throughout the whole dialogue, the Prime Minister, Sikyong Lobsang Sangay was trying to lie and continued to lie when answering the brilliant questions put forward by the students on ID card issues, religious freedom, basic community rights and discrimination issues posed on the Dorje Shugden practitioners by the CTA leadership.
Students, well done! Continue to speak up until the ban is down and you get back your equal right.
Amber Sonam
June 14, 2014
In the article and the video subtitle, there’s a statement by Lobsang Sangay that goes like this “from our side, no one has NEVER restricted Dhogyal people from whatever they are doing.” Does this means that the Sikyong openly agreed that they have been restricting the Shugdenpas with their practice?
Nevertheless, the video is somewhat enlightening as we see lots of hope in the Tibet younger generation, knowing that they are observant of their surrounding and think logically. They do not listen and accept fully all that CTA has to say about Shugden practitioners.
The Tibetan youth caught the CTA off guard by presenting 6 sharp and valid questions about the truth of the Shugden practitioners in exile. I suppose the CTA might have seen this public talk as an opportunity to further dilute the people’s understanding of what the CTA has done to the Shugden practitioners, never have they thought that it will fail them and now this embarrassment is widely known by the world!
Thank you DorjeShugden.com for bringing this to our attention. You have again proven to us how the CTA openly lies about the truth and no matter how hard they try that lies will always be exposed!
Kelly
June 14, 2014
Very happy to see these young Tibetan who are so brave to ask this question about the unfairness treatment that they see among their community . They are all very knowledgeable about freedom of religion and their right of speak out their point of view. By right the CTA should realize they cannot hide the true because people are getting more information from the social media they should really consider lifting the ban of practicing DS if they do not do it eventually they will have difficulty unite their own people.
Sandra
June 14, 2014
This is really good sign that now the Tibetan youths start to question on the ban. Truth remain is truth, even Lobsang Sangay and CTA trying hard to manipulate the facts but I don’t think is workable. The Tibetan youths can think and figure out what happening as the ban only separate the Tibetan community instead of unity. They also can see the unfairness and sufferings enforcing to the Shudgen practitioners even they are Tibetan. The youth Tibetan know that the ban is a critical issue that can not take it lightly as the ban has been directly affect the harmony and unity of the Tibetan community.
I hope more and more Tibetan will aware of the adverse effects of the ban. This is important as more people should voice out and request the ban to be lifted.
john oliver
June 14, 2014
I am very sure these 6 intelligent Tibetan students who are really brave in sacrificing everything for their fellow outcast Tibetans. They are true Buddhists in their hearts.
In few weeks CTA will bring these 6 student names under “Wanted List”
happy sun
June 14, 2014
Thank you for published this video to us who really want to support lift the ban Dorje Shudgen practitioner like me. The video is short but so powerful. I believed that CTA feel like shit because of the Q & A session between CTA leader and a group of youth.
This group of young generation are very smart, educated, aggressive, open-minded and mature. When they questioning the government about religion freedom, about CTA suppressed Dorje Shudgen practitioner, about the unite of Tibet…they are very logical, systematic and calm. They asked politely with all the facts back them up. This forced the leader of CTA feel reluctant, frustration and uncomfortable to answer all the sensitive questions.
More and more young generation will start speak out about the fact, this make CTA feel very insecure because they scared that their lie will be break. Whatever CTA done, to me just for their own benefit.
Through this video, will make more people see the truth and realized how powerful this protector. And how important is that we can lift the ban to benefit more.
I sincerely hope more and more Tibatan stand up to talk about the ban, then we can lift the ban faster.