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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: LosangKhyentse on March 05, 2011, 10:03:44 PM
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As everyone knows Domo Geshe Rinpoche has revered His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche in his previous incarnations as his root guru. His previous incarnation was recognized by Trijang Rinpoche. The current incarnation was also recognized by the current Trijang Rinpoche. But the Tibetan Govt is not happy with this situation as the current recognized Domo Geshe Rinpoche has joined Shar Gaden Monastery. In order to counter Trijang Rinpoche's recognition and Shar Gaden, Dalai Lama has recognized another Domo Geshe Rinpoche!
See this facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/domogeshe#!/domogeshe
Ordination
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=27327&id=134552456609401
Seal of Dalai Lama:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=1968&id=100002006375179
They make sure the seal of the Dalai Lama is seen clear and prominent on the facebook and websites. What Tulku/Rinpoche's facebook/website advertises their recognition seal for you to see? It is unnecessary. Unless you are out to prove your point and quash an opponent? In this case to disqualify the Domo Geshe Rinpoche recognized by Trijang Rinpoche perhaps. Very petty and very sad indeed. Why would they wish to undermine Trijang Rinpoche except because he practices Dorje Shugden and is affiliated with Shar Gaden Monastery.
Domo Geshe's website:
http://domo-gesherinpoche.org/
It is very sad that this recognition is seen as petty and unnecessary. If Trijang Rinpoche has recognized a Domo Geshe Rinpoche, why would you go out and recognize a second one? Is that not reminiscent of Sharmapa recognizing a Karmapa then Dalai Lama/Tibetan Govt recognizes another one? Does that not undermine Sharmapa Rinpoche? Is it intended to purposely undermine Sharmapa? If so what is the purpose? The Dalai Lama has no history, precedence or authority to actually recognize a Karmapa according to time honored traditions. By recognizing one, it seem to create so much confusion. Same situation now with Domo Geshe Rinpoche.
Only time will tell, which Domo Geshe Rinpoche will fulfill the heavy responsibilities placed upon his young shoulders.
TK
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Very bad news. >:(
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I can't believe this is also happening to the incarnation of the Domo Geshe Rinpoche! The recognition is indeed very familiar and similar to the two contending Karmapa situation. The recognition and the way they present the incarnation recognized by the Dalai Lama is definitely to undermine the other incarnation recognized by the Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche.
I wonder how are things going to unravel and I am pretty sure they are both emanations of Domo Geshe Rinpoche but only one must be the mind emanation or the direct incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche. I am not psychic but I am pretty sure that the incarnation recognized by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is the mind emanation. Like what Tk said, I am sure the incarnations will manifest their identity through their activities...
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I was just reading under the News from Shar Gaden thread (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=688.msg13650#msg13650) that one of Zemey Rinpoche's students wanted to recognise another tulku to counter the reincarnation of Zemey Rinpoche who is in Tibet currently.
On that thread, Tenzin Sungrab says that "Many of the prior Zemey Rinpoche's students are now senior monks here at Shar Gaden, and it was these students, as well as a few Rinpoches here, that helped locate the present tulku.
I was told that Thupten Jimpa, the Dalai Lama's English translator and student of the late Zemey Rinpoche, tried to interfere with the process and promote his own choice as the true tulku. In the end, he backed down when he realized that the people from Zemey Rinpoche's home monastery in Tibet, as well as all almost all of Zemey Rinpoche's prior students, would only accept the choice of our lineage Lamas here at Shar Gaden."
Together with the Panchen Lama, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, the Karmapa, is each high Lama going to manifest as two people from now on? This can really become divisive! As if we do not have enough problems to deal with.
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I was just reading under the News from Shar Gaden thread ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=688.msg13650#msg13650[/url]) that one of Zemey Rinpoche's students wanted to recognise another tulku to counter the reincarnation of Zemey Rinpoche who is in Tibet currently.
On that thread, Tenzin Sungrab says that "Many of the prior Zemey Rinpoche's students are now senior monks here at Shar Gaden, and it was these students, as well as a few Rinpoches here, that helped locate the present tulku.
I was told that Thupten Jimpa, the Dalai Lama's English translator and student of the late Zemey Rinpoche, tried to interfere with the process and promote his own choice as the true tulku. In the end, he backed down when he realized that the people from Zemey Rinpoche's home monastery in Tibet, as well as all almost all of Zemey Rinpoche's prior students, would only accept the choice of our lineage Lamas here at Shar Gaden."
Together with the Panchen Lama, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, the Karmapa, is each high Lama going to manifest as two people from now on? This can really become divisive! As if we do not have enough problems to deal with.
I am very disappointed to hear Thupten Jinpa tried to find his own candidate. It seems from this Thupten Jinpa is playing politics. Thupten Jinpa has no qualifications to find the new incarnation of Zemey Rinpoche. When Zemey Rinpoche was put down and ostracized by the Tibetan Govt, Thupten Jinpa still worked for the Tibetan govt. Thupten Jinpa from all appearances did nothing to protect or help Zemey Rinpoche.
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Everything seems to be coming in twos.
Two different Karmapas, two different Domo Geshes, two different Panchen Lama, and etc
A division is definitely clear.
Time will tell which one falls like a house of cards and which one remains.
In any case, Enlightened Beings have their own ways of making things known and for bringing Dharma to places where it is needed most for the long run.
Let those play politics be dealt by their own karma of politicking.
Let them waste their time and energy on those.
We shall concentrate on our practice and promoting our great Protector.
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For the authentic lineage to continue, the reincarnated high lamas MUST be recognised and guided to continue their previous lives' great works.. so unfortunately, whether we like it or not, we have to be aware of what is going on as it is the future of our lineage.
It is ironic that it will probably be the reincarnations of the Dalai Lama who will have multiple recognitions and much dispute. Personally, I trust the new Trijang Rinpoche - I hope he will be able to reveal his potential and continue and develop the Shugden lineage.
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I was just reading under the News from Shar Gaden thread ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=688.msg13650#msg13650[/url]) that one of Zemey Rinpoche's students wanted to recognise another tulku to counter the reincarnation of Zemey Rinpoche who is in Tibet currently.
On that thread, Tenzin Sungrab says that "Many of the prior Zemey Rinpoche's students are now senior monks here at Shar Gaden, and it was these students, as well as a few Rinpoches here, that helped locate the present tulku.
I was told that Thupten Jimpa, the Dalai Lama's English translator and student of the late Zemey Rinpoche, tried to interfere with the process and promote his own choice as the true tulku. In the end, he backed down when he realized that the people from Zemey Rinpoche's home monastery in Tibet, as well as all almost all of Zemey Rinpoche's prior students, would only accept the choice of our lineage Lamas here at Shar Gaden."
Together with the Panchen Lama, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, the Karmapa, is each high Lama going to manifest as two people from now on? This can really become divisive! As if we do not have enough problems to deal with.
I am very disappointed to hear Thupten Jinpa tried to find his own candidate. It seems from this Thupten Jinpa is playing politics. Thupten Jinpa has no qualifications to find the new incarnation of Zemey Rinpoche. When Zemey Rinpoche was put down and ostracized by the Tibetan Govt, Thupten Jinpa still worked for the Tibetan govt. Thupten Jinpa from all appearances did nothing to protect or help Zemey Rinpoche.
I am shocked to know that Thupten Jinpa actually worked for the Tibetan Govt when his own Guru, Zemey Rinpoche was put down and ostracized by the Tibetan Govt. How can one betray anyone whom one has receive so much kindness from let alone one's Guru who teaches us the Dharma? And now he wants to find his own candidate of the reincarnation of his Guru defying the choice of senior monk students of his Guru and other Rinpoches? Power struggle and hypocrisy seem to be prevalent everywhere in samsara whether in lay or monastic community
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I wonder how are things going to unravel and I am pretty sure they are both emanations of Domo Geshe Rinpoche but only one must be the mind emanation or the direct incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche. I am not psychic but I am pretty sure that the incarnation recognized by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is the mind emanation. Like what Tk said, I am sure the incarnations will manifest their identity through their activities...
To add to the confusion, there is also ANOTHER Western (female) incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche (http://www.white-conch.org/Domo-Geshe-Rinpoche.html), which was not recognised by any high lama. I think we get the picture of why many people are very confused and hence have decided to not believe in the "Tulku system". I am very glad that we still have institutions and great lamas around to guide us and for us to make sound judgement.
To the public out there, there are only 2 differing factors:
a) Tulkus recognised by the Dalai Lama
b) Tulkus who are NOT recognised by the Dalai Lama
So when the Dalai Lama is no longer with us, I wonder who will be the "authority" that the public will listen to?
Anyway, this is the website of Domo Chocktrul Rinpoche (Losang Jigme Nyak-gi Wangchuk) recognised by HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche: http://www.domogesherinpoche.org/
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I wonder how are things going to unravel and I am pretty sure they are both emanations of Domo Geshe Rinpoche but only one must be the mind emanation or the direct incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche. I am not psychic but I am pretty sure that the incarnation recognized by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is the mind emanation. Like what Tk said, I am sure the incarnations will manifest their identity through their activities...
To add to the confusion, there is also ANOTHER Western (female) incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche ([url]http://www.white-conch.org/Domo-Geshe-Rinpoche.html[/url]), which was not recognised by any high lama. I think we get the picture of why many people are very confused and hence have decided to not believe in the "Tulku system". I am very glad that we still have institutions and great lamas around to guide us and for us to make sound judgement.
To the public out there, there are only 2 differing factors:
a) Tulkus recognised by the Dalai Lama
b) Tulkus who are NOT recognised by the Dalai Lama
So when the Dalai Lama is no longer with us, I wonder who will be the "authority" that the public will listen to?
Anyway, this is the website of Domo Chocktrul Rinpoche (Losang Jigme Nyak-gi Wangchuk) recognised by HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche: [url]http://www.domogesherinpoche.org/[/url]
I don't think many Gelugpa take this woman seriously. She has a strong facebook following though. Students of the prior Domo Geshe Rinpoche in America are seeking legal action against her due to her refusal to stop using the name Domo Rinpoche. It is basically identity theft if a person profits from using another's name. Identity theft is a very serious matter in America.
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I heard that both the Panchen Lama recognized by HHDL and the Chinese government are both equally, genuinely the Panchen Lama.
Can this not be applied to Domo Geshe Rinpoche?
Thanks
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I wonder how are things going to unravel and I am pretty sure they are both emanations of Domo Geshe Rinpoche but only one must be the mind emanation or the direct incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche. I am not psychic but I am pretty sure that the incarnation recognized by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is the mind emanation. Like what Tk said, I am sure the incarnations will manifest their identity through their activities...
To add to the confusion, there is also ANOTHER Western (female) incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche ([url]http://www.white-conch.org/Domo-Geshe-Rinpoche.html[/url]), which was not recognised by any high lama. I think we get the picture of why many people are very confused and hence have decided to not believe in the "Tulku system". I am very glad that we still have institutions and great lamas around to guide us and for us to make sound judgement.
To the public out there, there are only 2 differing factors:
a) Tulkus recognised by the Dalai Lama
b) Tulkus who are NOT recognised by the Dalai Lama
So when the Dalai Lama is no longer with us, I wonder who will be the "authority" that the public will listen to?
Anyway, this is the website of Domo Chocktrul Rinpoche (Losang Jigme Nyak-gi Wangchuk) recognised by HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche: [url]http://www.domogesherinpoche.org/[/url]
I don't think many Gelugpa take this woman seriously. She has a strong facebook following though. Students of the prior Domo Geshe Rinpoche in America are seeking legal action against her due to her refusal to stop using the name Domo Rinpoche. It is basically identity theft if a person profits from using another's name. Identity theft is a very serious matter in America.
Well, I am amazed at how she dare assume his name like that and start becoming a Lama based on a story like that. I am sure Lamas are capable of mind transference (she claimed to have Domo Geshe Rinpoche assumed her body upon his death) but nobody of spiritual authority is recognizing her at all. Where is the basis of her teachings and what is her lineage? It is scary to see so many people receive teachings from her and I hope she is leading and teaching them well irregardless of whether she is Domo Geshe Rinpoche or not. I think there is something quite wrong as the great monasteries and Lamas are recognizing the incarnation(s) of Domo Geshe Rinpoche but she goes on her merry little way ignoring everyone else....
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I now see the reason why CTA/Dalai Lama wants a second Kamarpa: They want to eradicate and replace lamas that are pro Dorje Shugden. They do not care if they destroy a lineage, they just want political correctness. And in the process, there will be a lot of casualties, both on the cultural side and most importantly, the huge damage that has been done towards Tibetan Buddhism.
Dalai Lama's recognition is important, but so is the authenticity of the reincarnations. If the reincarnations are chosen based only on the political position such as which Dharma protector they practice, this will destroy and pulverize the entire tulku system because its like saying that anyone can be a tulku as long as that person follows our political side, we will build that person up as a tulku.
This pretty much makes the actual incarnation irrelevant…so what is the point of the tulku system then? Since when it was conceived to be a political maneuver? I am sure Dusun Kyempha did not return for this to happen, neither did he start this system only for it to become nothing but a political tool. However, the actual incarnations do not need titles to do their Dharma works, they're beyond that so this just invalidates the tulku system…and there will be impact but it won't stop the incarnations from performing great deeds.
It is funny that they chose their on Domo Geshe Rinpoche because the real one will always outshine the fake one, always. And it is more or less too late for them to choose a 2nd incarnation haha. However, they did forget one candidate of Domo Geshe Rinpoche that does not practice Dorje Shugden tho:
(http://www.hermitagebuddhistpublishing.com/DomoGesheRinpoche-4.jpg)
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Two Panchen Lamas, two Karmapas, one (almost two!) Zemey Rinpoches, two (should be three?) Domo Geshe Rinpoches, these actual incarnations or ‘fake’ incarnations are creating a lot of confusions for those not familiar with the Tulku system in Tibetan Buddhism. Perhaps this is the reason why NKT chose not to adopt the Tulku system as part of their organizational policies. Tulku system is not bad and it is still relevant today but it is subject to abuse by so many people or parties who may have ulterior motives! These people will sooner or later destroy the Tulku system! The Western female incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche and Thupten Jinpa are clear examples.
I am curious to know HH Dalai Lama’s intention. HH Dalai Lama is Chenrezig a fully enlightened Buddha who is omniscient and all knowing. Surely all that HH Dalai Lama had done to-date e.g. the ban and recognition of “other” Tulku has deeper meanings?
Samsara is already bad enough. But with all these “doubles” or “triples” manifesting, soon every Tom, Dick and Harry will start to claim they are Rinpoches or some kind of high Tulkus! China will definitely take advantage of this. They have already had their own Panchen Lama! Will China start to appoint a new Gaden Tripa? The sign of degeneration is dawning!
I fully agree with Ensapa on this
“ the actual incarnations do not need titles to do their Dharma works, they're beyond that so this just invalidates the tulku system…and there will be impact but it won't stop the incarnations from performing great deeds. “
The truth will prevail. Only the results from the work done by these multiple Tulkus will prove who ultimately the genuine ones are!
I did not mean to sound disrespectful to HH Dalai Lama and all the incarnations mentioned above. This is just my observation of the dilemma the Tulku system is having now.
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Two Panchen Lamas, two Karmapas, one (almost two!) Zemey Rinpoches, two (should be three?) Domo Geshe Rinpoches, these actual incarnations or ‘fake’ incarnations are creating a lot of confusions for those not familiar with the Tulku system in Tibetan Buddhism. Perhaps this is the reason why NKT chose not to adopt the Tulku system as part of their organizational policies. Tulku system is not bad and it is still relevant today but it is subject to abuse by so many people or parties who may have ulterior motives! These people will sooner or later destroy the Tulku system! The Western female incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche and Thupten Jinpa are clear examples.
There is a worse scenario: the Tulku system destroying Buddhism.
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Two Panchen Lamas, two Karmapas, one (almost two!) Zemey Rinpoches, two (should be three?) Domo Geshe Rinpoches, these actual incarnations or ‘fake’ incarnations are creating a lot of confusions for those not familiar with the Tulku system in Tibetan Buddhism. Perhaps this is the reason why NKT chose not to adopt the Tulku system as part of their organizational policies. Tulku system is not bad and it is still relevant today but it is subject to abuse by so many people or parties who may have ulterior motives! These people will sooner or later destroy the Tulku system! The Western female incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche and Thupten Jinpa are clear examples.
This is way too much if its going to be continuing like this. i personally found the Tulku system to be alright but if another high lama comes out and say this one is fake and that one is the real one, it does bring confusion to people around. of course we have to us our wisdom to check and our wisdom has limits. i guess we just have to rely on our Guru to determine which one is the real one. but at the same time i do come to know that there can be a few reincarnations at the same time for a High Lama. i am trying to say it is quite normal that a High Lama will have a few reincarnations. i have read it some where. please correct me if i am wrong here.
but the whole scenario here is quite sensitive when Chinese Govt is involve in this. There could be an arguement that the Chinese Govt is trying to make use of this Tulku system and gain control to their favour.
There is a worse scenario is to see Chinese govt are using the Tulku system to gain control of the Tibetans and this is destroying Buddhism.
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What I read here is quite amazing to begin with. One lama challenging another Lama's authority and genuity. Why are Lamas of high stature playing this game really? Already we have people in the secular world doing it. Why must the high lamas do it as well? Won't it just add onto the list of other things which people are doing already?
like what Buddha had prophecised, Buddhism will be destroyed not from outside factor but from Buddhists themselves. This seems to be becoming true.
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Dalai Lama and CTA government can heavily promote the other Domo Geshe in Sera Monastery but a lot of the Gelugpa practioners knows that the one recognized by Trijang Rinpoche is real in Shar Gaden.The previous Domo Geshe Rinpoche gave dreams to Trijang Rinpoche to request Trijang Rinpoche to find his incarnation. That was the same day he entered clear light.
1. How can Trijang Rinpoche be wrong?
2. Domo Geshe in his previous live was strong and intense practioners of Shugden, Shugden in trance reconfirmed this incarnation.
3. This young Rinpoche in Shar Gaden has already show signs of previous Domo Geshe. I have heard that he has show signs of his clear clairvoyance and on top of this, as a young boy,he is very discpline just like his previous live.
Whatever it is, the truth will prevail as results will speak louder then any promotions,
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This is such an upsetting news. It is becoming such a trend to have two versions of holy beings. I have read that high lamas can emanate into many forms but there is only one mind emanations. All this is again due to segregation of the shugden practitioners and non-practitioners. When a high lama reincarnate into a new body, he is definitely carrying on his works and practices from the previous life. As we all know, Domo Rinpoche was a strong practitioner of DS in his last life and the young Domo Rinpoche recognised by HH Trijang Rinpoche is now in Shar Gaden. What about the second Domo Rinpoche recognised by HH Dalai Lama, is he practicing DS too?
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It has been shown in another thread that the Tulku system is a valid one and that the belief in reincarnations of highly attained Masters, who show their Bodhisattva natures by returning again and again to bring Dharma to beings for the benefit of all, is an ummistaken one.
The great Master, the first Domo Geshe Rinpoche was very very close to HH Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. It stands to reason (karmically and logically speaking) that his incarnation, the second Domo Geshe Rinpoche, be recognized by HH Kyabje Trijang rinpoche. It also stands to reason (karmically and logically-speaking) that the current incarnation of Trijang Rinpoche, Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche, should be the one to recognize the third incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinposhe.
Indeed, now that Domo Choktrul Rinpoche has , under the instruction and advice of Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche, moved to Shar Gaden to begin, in earnest, his learning and training to become a great Lama like his previous incarnations, there can be no further doubt that he is a valid incarnation of Domo Geshe Rinpoche..
Nonetheless, just as has been said of the 2 Panchen Lamas and the two or more possible emanations/incarnations of Dorje Shugden and Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen, Enlightened Beings, out of great love and compassion for sentient beings, can come in more than one emanation to benefit all. So the Domo Geshe Rinpoche, currently being heavily promoted by HH Dalai Lama, may yet prove to be a valid incarnation too.
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It's quite possible that nowadays times are so degenerate that the Tulku system will not function and rather than helping to inspire faith and confidence, will lead to bickering, confusion and competition.
Perhaps it's better these days to focus on the teaching and not the Teacher? If the recognition of these Teachers is dubious, that will also lead to doubt as they recognise the incarnations of other Teachers, and so on. Does it really matter that these returning Teachers are recognised? Surely if they pass away, they will find a way to come back to their traditions and their qualities will become apparent over time?
Just some thoughts.
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Perhaps it's better these days to focus on the teaching and not the Teacher? If the recognition of these Teachers is dubious, that will also lead to doubt as they recognise the incarnations of other Teachers, and so on. Does it really matter that these returning Teachers are recognised? Surely if they pass away, they will find a way to come back to their traditions and their qualities will become apparent over time?
Just some thoughts.
Without the teacher, an actual being that practices the teachings and show us the results, then the teachings will become dead, in a sense that nobody knows whether or not the teachings have any effect, or if they are going the right direction with them. The teacher is the light, the captain that guides us through the sea of the 84,000 teachings of the Buddha that we do not know which to apply or how to interpret correctly and with positive results.
The recognition of these teachers only give confidence to those with little or weak affinities, but those with strong affinities do not need such official recognition to seek such teachers…they find these teachers all the same, i mean, before the first Kamarpa, there was no tulku system. Then what? The teachers stopped reincarnating? Milarepa is the reincarnation of Chandrichog…did he need that recognition to achieve what he did? No. He just did what he did.
Before the tulku system, there was the system where the teachers were recognized based entirely on their ability to teach as well as their spiritual attainments of bodhicitta and wisdom. Atisha wasn't a recognized tulku. Neither was Tsongkhapa. Gedun drup was not either. And in Gelug, the tulku system is unique because it is confirmed not only based on the traditional methods but also on the capabilities that the tulku shows in the areas of study, logic and debate.
It is not the recognition that really matters to these great masters but with a recognition they can reach out to more people and it would be easier for them to do their Dharma work, but ease and comfort is not a barrier. The whole purpose of the tulku system is to allow the disciples to reconnect to their previous master and lineage in an easier way, but without it too it will not stop these masters.
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Before the tulku system, there was the system where the teachers were recognized based entirely on their ability to teach as well as their spiritual attainments of bodhicitta and wisdom. Atisha wasn't a recognized tulku. Neither was Tsongkhapa. Gedun drup was not either. And in Gelug, the tulku system is unique because it is confirmed not only based on the traditional methods but also on the capabilities that the tulku shows in the areas of study, logic and debate.
Thank you Ensapa, this was my point really. If we wish to practise Dharma, surely all we need to do is to find a Teacher with a good reputation and then check if that person has the ten qualities of a fully qualified Spiritual Guide. Does it matter that that person is the incarnation of our previous Teacher? Surely all valid Teachers are emanation of Je Tsongkhapa or Buddha Vajradhara? We want to be taught directly by Buddha so we can regard all our Teachers as Buddha and not discriminate one from another. Titles then cease to matter.
There's no doubt that if we make a strong karmic connection with a Teacher through faith and acts of devotion, that person will care for us and find a way for us to connect with his emanation again in our future lives. From our side, we don't need to worry about titles and recognition. Also, in terms of their work, if they are Buddha, there will be no obstacles to them reaching out to others and for their Teachings to spread far and wide.
To my mind, that would alleviate the problem currently found in the Tulku system where there are multiple Lamas being recognised. As you said, the Tulku system did not exist before the first Karmapa, therefore if the system isn't working in these degenerate times, there is no great loss if it falls into disuse, it won't affect the work of these Great Beings.
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This is getting ridiculous! What is the CTA trying to do? Cause division and Kill the Tulku system? And what happens when HHDL passes on and decides not to come back as HHDL... what will happened then??
[If we wish to practise Dharma, surely all we need to do is to find a Teacher with a good reputation and then check if that person has the ten qualities of a fully qualified Spiritual Guide. Does it matter that that person is the incarnation of our previous Teacher? Surely all valid Teachers are emanation of Je Tsongkhapa or Buddha Vajradhara? We want to be taught directly by Buddha so we can regard all our Teachers as Buddha and not discriminate one from another. Titles then cease to matter.
There's no doubt that if we make a strong karmic connection with a Teacher through faith and acts of devotion, that person will care for us and find a way for us to connect with his emanation again in our future lives. From our side, we don't need to worry about titles and recognition. Also, in terms of their work, if they are Buddha, there will be no obstacles to them reaching out to others and for their Teachings to spread far and wide.
To my mind, that would alleviate the problem currently found in the Tulku system where there are multiple Lamas being recognised. As you said, the Tulku system did not exist before the first Karmapa, therefore if the system isn't working in these degenerate times, there is no great loss if it falls into disuse, it won't affect the work of these Great Beings.
I guess eventually it will come to this if they keep carrying on this way! I saw a video interview with Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche recently on a film called "Tulku"... what he said really stuck out and it was something like this "Who cares about the Tulku system because if the Tibetans are not careful, they can actually destroy Buddism this way. At the end of the day saving Buddhism is much more important then keeping the Tulku system.
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To quote Ensapa: “the actual incarnations do not need titles to do their Dharma works, they're beyond that so this just invalidates the tulku system…and there will be impact but it won't stop the incarnations from performing great deeds. “
I personally feel the tulku system is alright, but if one lama contradicts and challenges the other and cannot agree with each other on which is the real one or fake one it will create confusion to a lot of people around. Thus if we wish to practice Dharma, we must find a Spiritual Guide that has all the qualities of a Guru and focus on the Teachings, not the titles or recognitions. We must have strong guru devotion to create a strong karmic connection to meet up with his incarnation again in future lives. Even if he were to reincarnate into two or three or more bodies, which they are capable of, because of our strong karmic connection in the past, we will be able to meet up with him again in the future.
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The CTA always causes disunity and harm the tradition of the tulku system. The tulku system however is not all in vain. I agree with Ensapa "the actual incarnations do not need titles to dotheir Dharma works...." Whoever is the right incarnation will impact the world and people. Nevertheless, we can rely on Oracle Dorje Shugden to assist locating and selecting accurately the right candidate for the installation of the rightful tulku if in doubt. Shugdenpas have always rely on Dorje Shugden for recognization of tulkus.
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like what Buddha had prophecised, Buddhism will be destroyed not from outside factor but from Buddhists themselves. This seems to be becoming true.
Ditto!!! I think at the end of the day what matters most is what a Tulku does with his Tulkuship is more important. I am wondering what will happened when His Holiness passes who will then be the right person to authorise an official recognition to these Tulkus a part from the HEAD of the different schools themselves? Perhaps it will return to this very tradition where each Head of each sect will be in-charge and no more interferences from a 3rd party.. definitely not CTA... they are no longer in-charge of spiritual affairs! Then perhaps in this way the BAN will stop because well the Gaden Tripa will then be the Gelugpa head and will have authority over which rightfully theirs anyways. Hopefully then there will not be any more disunity...
If there is no incarnation of Dalai Lamas... then what's the fuss on going or not going for his initiations?
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Kyabje Yongyal Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche are both highly attained masters who are now tutors to Domo Geshe Rinpoche (the real one). With great masters as the tutors, I am sure Domo Rinpoche will grow up to be a great master himself.
Earlier this year Domo Rinpoche took his novice monk vows from Yongyal Rinpoche, many people from around the world attended the ceremony at Serpom. A long life puja was also held for both Yongyal Rinpoche and Domo Rinpoche.
I did not attend the ceremony but was still managed to have an audience with Domo Rinpoche at Shar Ganden last year. This young boy is very shy but attentive, his father speaks for him mostly but when there's a mistake, Domo Rinpoche will point it out and correct his father. For a 8 year old boy, I find it very amazing. Not many young children can pay so much attention. I was also told Domo Rinpoche could remember many words in a day, I can't remember the exact but it is definitely not ordinary.
As Shugdenpromoter pointed out, Domo Rinpoche has great clairvoyance since a very young age. I reckon he was 3-4 years old at that time. His parents held a birthday party for him at their house. Almost towards the end of the party, many relatives excused themselves to go home as it was late. But Domo Rinpoche insisted they stayed on to play with him, not allowing them to leave. After a while, an earthquake occurred causing many houses and buildings to collapse including those of Domo Rinpoche's relatives. Only then they realized why the young boy insisted they stay. If it wasn't for Domo Rinpoche's clairvoyance, many of his relatives might not be around anymore.
I don't know much about the other Domo Rinpoche but I suppose since it was the Dalai Lama who recognized him, this young boy ain't a simple child as well. Could he be an emanation? Well I am in no position to judge for sure. The only solace is that under the guidance of the Dalai Lama, this young boy will get a good education both spiritual and secular. He may not be any reincarnated great master, but with the knowledge he receives, I hope he will bring great benefit to others as well.
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Thank you Ensapa, this was my point really. If we wish to practise Dharma, surely all we need to do is to find a Teacher with a good reputation and then check if that person has the ten qualities of a fully qualified Spiritual Guide. Does it matter that that person is the incarnation of our previous Teacher? Surely all valid Teachers are emanation of Je Tsongkhapa or Buddha Vajradhara? We want to be taught directly by Buddha so we can regard all our Teachers as Buddha and not discriminate one from another. Titles then cease to matter.
There's no doubt that if we make a strong karmic connection with a Teacher through faith and acts of devotion, that person will care for us and find a way for us to connect with his emanation again in our future lives. From our side, we don't need to worry about titles and recognition. Also, in terms of their work, if they are Buddha, there will be no obstacles to them reaching out to others and for their Teachings to spread far and wide.
To my mind, that would alleviate the problem currently found in the Tulku system where there are multiple Lamas being recognised. As you said, the Tulku system did not exist before the first Karmapa, therefore if the system isn't working in these degenerate times, there is no great loss if it falls into disuse, it won't affect the work of these Great Beings.
That is probably the reason why HHDL says he would like to abolish the Dalai Lama line, or that it would continue but it will not be him that will be taking up that position. There are 2 versions of the same tulku that are being recognized -- the misuse of tulkus for political reasons. For example there was 2 instances of the 6th Dalai Lama - the radical one and the passive one because the ruling Dzungzars could not accept such a wild and radical person as their lama, so they chose someone that was more peaceful to fulfill the expectations and benefit at the same time. There are now 2 Karmapas, 2 Panchen Lamas, 2 Domo Geshe Rinpoches (okay, that funny lady dosent count as one) but it seems that out of the 2 recognized candidates, only one of them will carry out the deeds of the previous tulku while the other would either remain passive or go underground as in the case with the 6th Dalai Lama. having 2 recognitions does not mean that the tulku system is flawed or that nobody knows who the real one is. It probably means that it would be not suitable to place the direct incarnation to his original seat at this time. Does anyone not find it strange when HHDL says that his mindstream is the same as the 5th Dalai Lama, but does not say that his mindstream is the same as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th.....you get the idea. Also, HHDL has said that the alternative 6th Dalai Lama chosen by the Dzungzars is also an emanation of Chenrenzig. Now what does that mean?
In the end, what we should look for when finding a Guru is not his title or recognitions but on his wisdom and qualifications. A Lama that is not a tulku can equally benefit many and are equally attained. For example, Geshe Lobsang Tarchin is not a tulku, but he is still an excellent teacher. There are so many examples and getting hung up over a title or two is just the whole antithesis of why we seek a spiritual teacher. The purpose of a tulku and a title is just to make things easier for the Guru to resume his previous work as a Dharma teacher and nothing more. It should not be a requirement that we look for when we are finding a Guru. When I check out a teacher, i dont look at his title, but only his lineage and his teachings. His teachings must be valid, and backed up by his monastery and Gurus. He also must have the qualities as described in the 50 Verses of Guru devotion. Not what was his previous reincarnation. So in effect, whether or not there is a fake or real tulku it does not bother me at all as my goal is for my Dharma practice and not to be the disciple of some fancy Lama.
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I came across someone's blog and I must say, there is something we can learn from this:
Real or Fake Tulku?
Attachment cause suffering.
One great teacher passed away and we felt a great loss. We longed for him / her to return and guide us.
years passed, and then we found ourselves faced with more than 1 options.
2 groups of people, each claiming to have found the true reincarnation.
We became confuse. We debate amongst friends.
Close dharma brothers fighting against one another.
who is to blame?
Attachment cause suffering, ignorance cause suffering.
Even if buddha is alive.
Being attached to Buddha will bring us enlightenment?
Buddha taught us Kalama Sutta, use our wisdom.
Depend on the essence of dharma, not it's form.
Skillful means.
We use form to further our faith and conviction.
We bow to relic, we bow to statue.
We pray to monks and take refuge in Guru.
Taking the boat to cross the river, we became attached to the boat
If an ancient statue can be said to represent Buddha, so can a living person.
But when human existence expires, we seek another "statue" to replace.
what is important is we do not loose sight of the dharma.
if there can be millions of sakyamuni buddha statue in this world, why can't there be more than 1 form of reincarnation.
what is real and what is false? can we distinguish the truth?
if we can, we do not need these statues
if we can't then why fight amongst ourselves because of attachment?
the statue is just a representative right?
Namo Buddhaya, Namo Dharmaya, Namo Sanghaya
What are we saying anyway?
Let our wisdom shine forth bright.
stop the bickering and follow the eightfold path.
Regardless of which statue, examine the dharma with wisdom, just like buddha taught the Kalama
sadhu.
In reality, how many people go beyond doing preliminary practices and even applying Dharma principles in daily lives? My opinion is even if the fake tulku can spew lines from texts like Lamrim is good enough for some lay practitioners who are just starting off the ground on spirituality/ Buddhism.
Yes, there may not be blessings of the lineage for practices or initiations, but still, Dharma is Dharma. If the fake tulkus teach kindness, tell the students to practice the 6 paramitas, why not?
Some people do not have the good karma to be connected with teachers with authentic lineage, I think it's' better that than not having a teacher at all, at least one is making some form of progress. What do you all think :P?
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Guru devotion is very different from being attached to the Guru. Both are different things but can appear to be the same thing. Guru devotion is the process and the act of doing in according with the teacher's instructions and also to trust him completely in his instructions without second guessing him or doubting him. If we doubt the teacher's instructions in an arrogant manner, why would we follow a teacher in the first place? Its okay to ask due to lack of understanding, but to doubt outright is not a good thing. The crux of Guru devotion is trust: do we trust this person enough to follow his instructions through and through? and does the teacher trust us enough to pass on to us the most sacred practices to us? That dynamic relationship is called Samaya. This is what Guru devotion is. With Guru devotion, the student does everything and follows every instructions with the clear knowledge and motivations that the main motivation for us to do this is to practice the Dharma and not out of attachment to the Guru.
Being attached to the teacher is very different: people who are attached to the teacher will not be practicing Dharma. Instead, they would spend their time to gain the favor of the Guru and play politics to get near to the Guru and they are usually the ones that are rude and will not hesitate to harm other Dharma students to be physically closer to the teacher, or so what they think. Sometimes, when the teacher passes away or leaves, it really makes us think and reflect on what Guru devotion really is. Even those teachers who are very devoted to their teachers, such as Pabongkha Rinpoche, did not train under their old teacher in their present life. He did not become the student of Dagpo Rinpoche again this life. If it was out of attachment to the teacher he would go towards him...it is the qualifications of the teacher that we should be 'attached' to.
That's how i feel, anyway, about Guru devotion
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Guru devotion is very different from being attached to the Guru. Both are different things but can appear to be the same thing. Guru devotion is the process and the act of doing in according with the teacher's instructions and also to trust him completely in his instructions without second guessing him or doubting him. If we doubt the teacher's instructions in an arrogant manner, why would we follow a teacher in the first place? Its okay to ask due to lack of understanding, but to doubt outright is not a good thing. The crux of Guru devotion is trust: do we trust this person enough to follow his instructions through and through? and does the teacher trust us enough to pass on to us the most sacred practices to us? That dynamic relationship is called Samaya. This is what Guru devotion is. With Guru devotion, the student does everything and follows every instructions with the clear knowledge and motivations that the main motivation for us to do this is to practice the Dharma and not out of attachment to the Guru.
Being attached to the teacher is very different: people who are attached to the teacher will not be practicing Dharma. Instead, they would spend their time to gain the favor of the Guru and play politics to get near to the Guru and they are usually the ones that are rude and will not hesitate to harm other Dharma students to be physically closer to the teacher, or so what they think. Sometimes, when the teacher passes away or leaves, it really makes us think and reflect on what Guru devotion really is. Even those teachers who are very devoted to their teachers, such as Pabongkha Rinpoche, did not train under their old teacher in their present life. He did not become the student of Dagpo Rinpoche again this life. If it was out of attachment to the teacher he would go towards him...it is the qualifications of the teacher that we should be 'attached' to.
That's how i feel, anyway, about Guru devotion
I think all of us start our practice by developing an attachment to the Guru. As we learn and apply more of the Lamrim and the guidance of the qualified Guru, we lessen our attachment and practice real devotion. This transition may not necessarily be so ideal as people come with various preconceived notions of how a monk and Lama should act. These preconceived notions is very harmful to our practice as we start to judge the Guru through unworthy standards. Therefore, we react in ways that will be contrary to the Dharma and especially with our Guru.
The key to Guru devotion is surrendering and making offerings. I think since we consider our Guru to be the source of all the teachings we have heard and that makes him more important than all the Buddhas because we gain the Dharma through his verbal advice, teachings and great example. Hence, our Guru is the best object from which to make merits through offerings. Studying on the inner and outer meanings of the 50 Stanzas of Guru devotion is a good way to improve our awareness on how conduct ourselves in front of the Guru.
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Guru devotion is very different from being attached to the Guru. Both are different things but can appear to be the same thing. Guru devotion is the process and the act of doing in according with the teacher's instructions and also to trust him completely in his instructions without second guessing him or doubting him. If we doubt the teacher's instructions in an arrogant manner, why would we follow a teacher in the first place? Its okay to ask due to lack of understanding, but to doubt outright is not a good thing. The crux of Guru devotion is trust: do we trust this person enough to follow his instructions through and through? and does the teacher trust us enough to pass on to us the most sacred practices to us? That dynamic relationship is called Samaya. This is what Guru devotion is. With Guru devotion, the student does everything and follows every instructions with the clear knowledge and motivations that the main motivation for us to do this is to practice the Dharma and not out of attachment to the Guru.
Guru devotion is very different from being attached to the Guru. Both are different things but can appear to be the same thing. Guru devotion is the process and the act of doing in according with the teacher's instructions and also to trust him completely in his instructions without second guessing him or doubting him. If we doubt the teacher's instructions in an arrogant manner, why would we follow a teacher in the first place? Its okay to ask due to lack of understanding, but to doubt outright is not a good thing. The crux of Guru devotion is trust: do we trust this person enough to follow his instructions through and through? and does the teacher trust us enough to pass on to us the most sacred practices to us? That dynamic relationship is called Samaya. This is what Guru devotion is. With Guru devotion, the student does everything and follows every instructions with the clear knowledge and motivations that the main motivation for us to do this is to practice the Dharma and not out of attachment to the Guru.
Being attached to the teacher is very different: people who are attached to the teacher will not be practicing Dharma. Instead, they would spend their time to gain the favor of the Guru and play politics to get near to the Guru and they are usually the ones that are rude and will not hesitate to harm other Dharma students to be physically closer to the teacher, or so what they think. Sometimes, when the teacher passes away or leaves, it really makes us think and reflect on what Guru devotion really is. Even those teachers who are very devoted to their teachers, such as Pabongkha Rinpoche, did not train under their old teacher in their present life. He did not become the student of Dagpo Rinpoche again this life. If it was out of attachment to the teacher he would go towards him...it is the qualifications of the teacher that we should be 'attached' to.
That's how i feel, anyway, about Guru devotion
I think all of us start our practice by developing an attachment to the Guru. As we learn and apply more of the Lamrim and the guidance of the qualified Guru, we lessen our attachment and practice real devotion. This transition may not necessarily be so ideal as people come with various preconceived notions of how a monk and Lama should act. These preconceived notions is very harmful to our practice as we start to judge the Guru through unworthy standards. Therefore, we react in ways that will be contrary to the Dharma and especially with our Guru.
The key to Guru devotion is surrendering and making offerings. I think since we consider our Guru to be the source of all the teachings we have heard and that makes him more important than all the Buddhas because we gain the Dharma through his verbal advice, teachings and great example. Hence, our Guru is the best object from which to make merits through offerings. Studying on the inner and outer meanings of the 50 Stanzas of Guru devotion is a good way to improve our awareness on how conduct ourselves in front of the Guru.
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I think all of us start our practice by developing an attachment to the Guru. As we learn and apply more of the Lamrim and the guidance of the qualified Guru, we lessen our attachment and practice real devotion. This transition may not necessarily be so ideal as people come with various preconceived notions of how a monk and Lama should act. These preconceived notions is very harmful to our practice as we start to judge the Guru through unworthy standards. Therefore, we react in ways that will be contrary to the Dharma and especially with our Guru.
The key to Guru devotion is surrendering and making offerings. I think since we consider our Guru to be the source of all the teachings we have heard and that makes him more important than all the Buddhas because we gain the Dharma through his verbal advice, teachings and great example. Hence, our Guru is the best object from which to make merits through offerings. Studying on the inner and outer meanings of the 50 Stanzas of Guru devotion is a good way to improve our awareness on how conduct ourselves in front of the Guru.
For me, I did not start by being attached to the Guru. I started with a very clear motivation that I am to train under this Guru no matter what happens because he knows more than me. he is not an ordinary human being but actually Vajradhara in human form. He displays the 6 parimitas openly and has infinite compassion, wisdom and skillful means that he dispenses to his students wholeheartedly. That is more than enough to convince me that if I follow this person and apply his advice all the way, there is results and that the Buddha's teaching does have effect. That is the only reason why I would submit myself to a Guru: to be able to attain his qualities and then benefit others with that. Being attached to the Guru, I would see it as wanting to have everything to do with the Guru and being obsessed with being physically close to the Guru, and everything except following the Guru's teaching is done to get closer, or following the instructions just to get into the Guru's favor and not really follow it for transforming the mind.
Here's the story of Vakkali who was attached to the Buddha in the wrong way:
Seeing the Dhamma
[The Buddha visits the Ven. Vakkali, who is sick]
Now the Venerable Vakkali saw the Blessed One coming from a distance, and tried to get up. Then the Blessed One said to the Venerable Vakkali: "Enough, Vakkali, do not try to get up.[1] There are these seats made ready. I will sit down there." And he sat down on a seat that was ready. Then he said:
"Are you feeling better, Vakkali? Are you bearing up? Are your pains getting better and not worse? Are there signs that they are getting better and not worse?"[2]
"No, Lord, I do not feel better, I am not bearing up. I have severe pains, and they are getting worse, not better. There is no sign of improvement, only of worsening."
"Have you any doubts, Vakkali? Have you any cause for regret?"
"Indeed, Lord, I have many doubts. I have much cause for regret."
"Have you nothing to reproach yourself about as regards morals?"
"No, Lord, I have nothing to reproach myself about as regards morals."
"Well then, Vakkali, if you have nothing to reproach yourself about as regards morals, you must have some worry or scruple that is troubling you."
"For a long time, Lord, I have wanted to come and set eyes on the Blessed One, but I had not the strength in this body to come and see the Blessed One."
"Enough, Vakkali! What is there to see in this vile body? He who sees Dhamma, Vakkali, sees me; he who sees me sees Dhamma. Truly seeing Dhamma, one sees me; seeing me one sees Dhamma."[3]
In a way, the real method to see the Guru is to practice and apply his teachings, or we'll create the causes to push him further away.
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Domo Rinpoche has great clairvoyance since a very young age. I reckon he was 3-4 years old at that time. His parents held a birthday party for him at their house. Almost towards the end of the party, many relatives excused themselves to go home as it was late. But Domo Rinpoche insisted they stayed on to play with him, not allowing them to leave. After a while, an earthquake occurred causing many houses and buildings to collapse including those of Domo Rinpoche's relatives. Only then they realized why the young boy insisted they stay. If it wasn't for Domo Rinpoche's clairvoyance, many of his relatives might not be around anymore.
I don't know much about the other Domo Rinpoche but I suppose since it was the Dalai Lama who recognized him, this young boy ain't a simple child as well. Could he be an emanation? Well I am in no position to judge for sure. The only solace is that under the guidance of the Dalai Lama, this young boy will get a good education both spiritual and secular. He may not be any reincarnated great master, but with the knowledge he receives, I hope he will bring great benefit to others as well.
That is an interesting little story about Domo Rinpoche... even at such a young tender age his mind is so sharp and clearly He is clairvoyant. If he did not insist his relatives to stay, it would have been disastrous. How fascinating all these great Enlightened masters and how the things they do to benefit others.
This story also reminds me of my Lama as well... he would also do the same where sometimes He would make us stay back for ages or instruct us not to go to a certain place or show up up suddenly to do a blessing for a certain someone and the very next day that person had a huge accident but his life was saved, not a scratch. Sometimes even pilgrimage trips, Lama would say that certain people should not go and certain people a "MUST" to go. These are clear manifestations of the Guru's Enlightened mind and skillfulness that is always to bring some kind of benefit to someone. So from this little story from tsangpakarpo highlighted... we can see that these highly attained Lamas are so humble that they would never reveal to anyone their abilities.
So fortunate that Serpom Monastery have such high caliber Gelug Lamas such as Domo Rinpoche to continue the teachings of Lama Tsongkhapa!
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That is an interesting little story about Domo Rinpoche... even at such a young tender age his mind is so sharp and clearly He is clairvoyant. If he did not insist his relatives to stay, it would have been disastrous. How fascinating all these great Enlightened masters and how the things they do to benefit others.
This story also reminds me of my Lama as well... he would also do the same where sometimes He would make us stay back for ages or instruct us not to go to a certain place or show up up suddenly to do a blessing for a certain someone and the very next day that person had a huge accident but his life was saved, not a scratch. Sometimes even pilgrimage trips, Lama would say that certain people should not go and certain people a "MUST" to go. These are clear manifestations of the Guru's Enlightened mind and skillfulness that is always to bring some kind of benefit to someone. So from this little story from tsangpakarpo highlighted... we can see that these highly attained Lamas are so humble that they would never reveal to anyone their abilities.
So fortunate that Serpom Monastery have such high caliber Gelug Lamas such as Domo Rinpoche to continue the teachings of Lama Tsongkhapa!
being the disciple of a clairvoyant lama can be quite interesting as he can read our thoughts and he will sometimes verbalize them or act in ways that indicate that he is completely aware of our thoughts and intentions. it can be quite intimidating at first but after a while, i realize that the more he does that the less places i have that i can hide from. There is simply no more place or no room for me to hide my negative qualities anymore as he will expose them at every turn. Even when i "cover" my negative side with a positive one, he will eventually put me in a situation where i have to face my negative aspect and rectify it. There is literally no way out, or no way for me to indulge in my negative qualities and say that it is okay to do so. He also gives instructions that are seemingly difficult or that is exactly what we are afraid of doing, but somehow, if we do it or at least give it a go, things turn out for the better.
A clairvoyant lama is a very precious tool for accelerating our Dharma practice, and if we do find such a lama, we must never give up on him or her and we should follow the instructions all the way although its not always easy to do but practice does make perfect as he knows the exact things that we do that will challenge our comfort zones, but if we do it we will improve drastically in all aspects. It can be quite a challenge to go through, but it is worth it at the end of the day as we gain what we want in the Dharma.
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It is saddening to note the chaos created by the recognition of many incarnations of previous great lamas at the will of HH Dalai Lama.
There are 2 Panchan Lamas, 2 Karmapa and also 2 Domo Geshe Rinpoche. All this will be a problem of division, breaking of Guru Samaya, and confusion within the Tibetan Buddhism.
Is there bigger picture which is not seen by lay practitioners? To add further to the confusion, HH Dalai Lama also said that there will not be a 15th Dalai Lama and also that if there is to be, it may be a female. Please be aware that females cannot be ordained as a full monastic member, at least for now.
How much more confusion to be sorted out for the present and next generations of Tibetan Buddhists among the Tibetans in exile, the Tibetans in Tibet and the practitioners world wide.
Is this confusion another part of the bigger picture? For now, the division is chaotic. And most of all does not induce calm for lay Tibetan Buddhists. It is sincerely hoped that the chaotic situation will not destroy Tibetan Buddhism by and large.
Let us all have guru devotion, and put all the confusion to rest. Trust your root guru to be the guiding light.
May all be reminded of the ban on Dorje Shugden and the numerous contradictory remarks from the Dalai Lama. MORE CONFUSION?