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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mana on December 19, 2011, 10:37:13 PM

Title: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Mana on December 19, 2011, 10:37:13 PM: THE TRUTH behind who saved the Dalai Lama’s life

An incredible revelation has come to light about the H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama’s perilous escape from Tibet, and the truth about who really saved his life during those most dangerous times.

Some very courageous monks from both Gaden and Sera Monasteries have revealed many very interesting facts as below, which contradict what has been popularized. The truth has been covered up and denied by the Tibetan Government since the escape of the Dalai Lama and his people in 1959.

-- First, it was under H.H. Trijang Rinpoche’s advice that the Dalai Lama sought the counsel of the enlightened Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden through the most famous oracle in the land, Panglung Oracle.

-- By following Dorje Shugden’s instructions, the Dalai Lama escaped many terrible fates. For example, once, when the Chinese invaded the Norbulingka Palace (Dalai Lama’s summer home), they literally could not see the Dalai Lama and so he was not harmed. At that time, the Dalai Lama was carrying a Dorje Shugden thangka.

-- Through the Panglung Oracle, Dorje Shugden advised the Dalai Lama to leave Tibet immediately and advised him which route to take. Dorje Shugden assured that he would protect the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama followed this instruction and left immediately. The day after, the Dalai Lama’s palace, the Potala, was completely shelled and bombed. He and his entourage were protected throughout the escape and arrived in India safely.

-- The Gaden monks explained that the Dalai Lama had made an offering of THIS THANGKA PAINTING to his Guru Trijang Rinpoche. However, when he needed to escape Tibet, the Dalai Lama requested Trijang Rinpoche to borrow this thangka as protection. Knowing the tremendous benefit that the Dalai Lama would bring to the world through teachings and the Tibetan Buddhist lineage, Trijang Rinpoche immediately lent him the thangka.

-- The Dalai Lama carried this thangka on his back throughout his escape towards India.

-- All this points clearly to the fact that Dorje Shugden saved the Dalai Lama’s life and helped him escape unscathed from the dangers in Tibet.

-- This thangka still exists and is currently preserved by the monks of Trijang Ladrang in Gaden Monastery.

-- As the Dalai Lama escaped, he was accompanied by an entourage of 30 monks from Sera Monastery. To this day, these Sera monks remember that the Dalai Lama had consulted Dorje Shugden and been advised to leave Tibet when he did. They also remember that the Dalai Lama carried this particular Dorje Shugden thangka. See how deeply saddened this Sera monk is as he recalls that journey and reflects on the Dalai Lama’s current ban on Dorje Shugden

Dorje Shugden saved the Dalai Lama's Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ2V8wdWMTI#)

or click here: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1048 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1048)

Now, the Dalai Lama has instituted a ban against Dorje Shugden, claiming that he is an evil spirit and will harm the Dalai Lama’s life. This is totally illogical! Why would Dorje Shugden help the Dalai Lama escape Tibet safely, and now be a threat to his life? Because of the ban, Dorje Shugden devotees have been attacked and families have been separated; monks are denied welfare and even expelled from their monasteries, which is unheard of in Buddhist history.

(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/trijangthangka1.jpg)
The thangka that His Holiness the Dalai Lama carried with him. Borrowed from His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, this thangka assured the Dalai Lama's safe escape from Tibet. Upon his safe arrival in India, this thangka was returned to Trijang Rinpoche by the Dalai Lama and until this very day, this thangka is enshrined in a very honoured, special place in Trijang Rinpoche's personal house in Gaden. This is the actual thangka that the Dalai Lama carried in a container on his back throughout the whole 1959 exodus

(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/trijangthangka3.jpg)

Gen Jampa, Jangchub Norbu, Gen Dawa spoke passionately about the ban and how people had attempted to harm His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche. These monks are seniors and leaders in the monastery, and very devoted students of the late previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. These are the monks who revealed the information about the Dorje Shugden thangka and are now the guardians of this thangka in Trijang Ladrang

The Tibetan exiled Government in India makes defamatory reports to the police about Dorje Shugden practitioners. They spread rumours that these practitioners are Chinese spies and even try to stop Dorje Shugden practitioners from entering India!

Because the current young incarnation of Trijang Rinpoche continues to practice Dorje Shugden, there have been attacks on his life. Monks have revealed that masked men charged into Trijang Ladrang in Gaden Monastery carrying sticks and wanting to kill Trijang Rinpoche. Fortunately, many monks protected him. In 1995, because of the many threats on his life, the 15-year-old Trijang Rinpoche left India to America. The main reason he left the monastery was the many threats on his life due to this ban on Dorje Shugden.

There is now talk among monks that the Dalai Lama wants to be the spiritual leader of all schools of Buddhism in the world, like a pope of Buddhism. He is achieving this by breaking apart smaller schools of Buddhism – such as by instituting this ban and creating splits within lineages so as to weaken them. It is his hope that when these schools are weakened and have no strong leader, he will be able to step in as supreme head to all Buddhist sects everywhere. (This is not what we at dorjeshugden.com endorse or agree with, but is what many monks are now led to think).

(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/trijangthangka2.jpg)
A close-up of His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche's thangka that guided His Holiness the Dalai Lama to safety. It was carried by the Dalai Lama on his back until he reached safety

(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/trijangthangka4.jpg)

This is the 1959 exodus in which His Holiness the Dalai Lama carried with him the Dorje Shugden thangka that brought him safely into India

However, the revelation about the truth of this Dorje Shugden thangka now creates shockwaves in the Buddhist world. Underlying the ban, all its twisted “reasoning” and the misery it has created for Dorje Shugden devotees, THIS THANGKA reveals a whole different story. It proves that the Dalai Lama’s success today, and the success of all Tibetan Buddhist teachers, lineages and centers in the world, actually began first with the blessings and protection of Dorje Shugden as he led the Dalai Lama to safety. All the claims about Dorje Shugden being an evil, harmful spirit are completely unfounded and untrue.

In sharing this, it is our hope that we can show the world the truth about Dorje Shugden, and that the ban can be lifted to allow more religious freedom and peace, tolerance and understanding everywhere.

dorjeshugden.com
dorjeshugden.net

source: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10704 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10704)
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: kurava on December 20, 2011, 12:03:33 AM: My friends who have recently visited the monasteries in India told me their heart wrenching experiences on seeing hardships & frustrations faced by all the monks in places where DS is still not forsaken. Life is unbelievably tough for them but their spirits are high. Exactly like the saying - when the going gets tough, the tough gets going.

What DL & CTA did really defied normal reasoning and logic. Only buddhas know what's behind the policy and actions.

However, if we take side with one against the other we are like cutting up the limbs of the Buddha. The DL did bring Tibetan Buddhism to an international platform. At times it is really against my sense of justice to follow the "bigger picture" theory but it is true that through the policy of banning the DS practice, the practice has actually flourished in leaps and bounds!

May the ban be lifted soon and everything become clear and smooth. Om benza wiki bitana soha !
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: DharmaDefender on December 20, 2011, 12:45:10 AM: Thats incredible!!! Jesus and so the plot thickens!

Now there are more than a few things Im wandering about...

1) the CTA had to go to such great lengths to wipe out Dorje Shugdens role in Tibetan independence. THey had to go way way back to try and wipe out the truth. I mean, not only was Dorje Shugden the reason WHY the Dalai Lama left Tibet (esp after Nechung made a dogs dinner of his predictions) but now we find out Dorje Shugden protected the Dalai Lama in this way?

Come on - thats a lot of effort and if Dorje Shugden wanted to kill the Dalai Lama, why go through all this effort of saving him to begin with???

2) Dorje Shugden is 100% the reason why His Holiness is still alive today, and therefore 100% the reason why Tibet has any remote shot at independence and why Tibetan Buddhism has gone all around the world. Because lets face it - if you say 'Buddhist' everyone thinks Dalai Lama. They dont think Pabongka Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche, Lama Yeshe, Geshe-la...

3) no matter what they did they couldnt totally erase his name because guru devotion and practicing what your lama gives you transcends everything

4) therefore their effort was a total waste and couldve been put to better use

5) Dorje Shugden single-handedly kept Buddhism alive (totally an uncommon protector!) but still he doesnt drum it into peoples heads whenever he gets the chance. No ego mate.

I was watching this video earlier today (CIA in Tibet - Escape of The Dalai Lama - Part 3/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QTIH2iS12o#ws)). Its about the CIAs involvement in His Holiness escape into exile. Mikel Dunhams a bit..odd but this video had some interesting things that I think fit quite well with this revelation. Now that we know His Holiness was carrying Dorje Shugdens thangka with him all the way to India, it suddenly makes sense why:

a) over 50,000 Communist troops scouring the Himalayas could not find the Dalai Lama

b) the Chi Comm planes video'd apparently following the Dalai Lama's group did not spot him (because they did not catch him!)

c) the Dalai Lama made it from Tibet to India in 14 days, with relatively few hardships

Sorry but if thats not fulfilling the promise he made to Nechung to protect Nagarjuna's middle view, not sure what is!
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: WisdomBeing on December 20, 2011, 01:01:13 AM: Thank you for sharing this information. Personally I was first rather shocked and a little outraged. I mean - all well and good that the Dalai Lama 'changed' his mind and decided that Dorje Shugden was not a Buddha after all, but for him to have said that the thangka he took out from Tibet was of Palden Lhamo is an outright lie.

See the reference to the thangka as Palden Lhamo in this article which ironically condemns Dorje Shugden. http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/speeches-by-his-holiness/gelug-conference (http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/speeches-by-his-holiness/gelug-conference)

On further reflection however, if we swap the name Palden Lhamo for Dorje Shugden in this article, the Dalai Lama speaks very reverentially of this thangka and thus Dorje Shugden. I really do pray that the Dalai Lama will be able to speak up about the real truth about Dorje Shugden one day - and unravel the ban as well as all the intricacies surrounding it.

The thangka is breathtakingly beautiful. I think it's one of my favourites to date! Thank you again for sharing - the image as well as the story.

Good points Dharma Defender btw! I particularly liked that the Dalai Lama appeared invisible... very Harry Potter!
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Dolce Vita on December 20, 2011, 01:39:18 AM: This is a very beautiful thangka, love it.

It is really sad that DS practice and practitioners are suppressed and discriminated so badly when they are not doing any harm to the society or the world at all. I do not know why HHDL or CTA put this ban and make certain negative remarks to this great protector but by looking at the fact that DS helped HHDL escaped from Tibet, the achievements of the great masters / lamas who are the practitioners of DS, I believe DS brings only benefits to us. If DS really affect people negatively, brings harm to people and the practitioners, why would the current incarnation of Pabongkha Rinpoche, Trijiang Rinpoche, Song Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpcohe, etc keep in silence?

I cannot comprehend why HHDL do this to DS practitioners, I choose to believe he is doing it for the bigger picture. Putting aside the DS controversy, HHDL has been promoting Buddhism and values of Buddhism to everyone in the world, he travels around the world to give teachings despite his age. Is he a bad person?

I totally agree with what the ds.com team is doing, the team does not focus on the negative things HHDL or CTA is doing but instead they are very loyal, firm and strong in their DS practise. They focus on telling and revealing the truth about DS to the world and encourage people to look at things in a different perspective, we all can see they work very hard towards the lifting of the ban. Instead of wasting time and energy condemning how bad the other person is, it is more constructive to use this energy to study the benefits of DS and to do whatever we can to lift the ban.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: triesa on December 20, 2011, 01:57:27 AM: Thank you Mana for sharing this story and this sacred DS thangka that the DL carried with him during his escape from Tibet to India. Even a glimpse of it gives me goose bumps.........

In a way, everyone can see that there are so much lies and contradictions in this ban, in fact, the more DL and CTA wants to cover or twist the facts, the better it is for DS as the truth is being revealed.

I still believe people are not blind, the more we present the facts to the world, the clearer the picture it is that DS is not an evil spirit. So thank you for the hard work of the admin for DS.COM that keep updating this website with precious infomation, testimonials, interviews with monks and high lamas, and we as DS practitioners, should do our best in spreading these truth.

It is still sad and disheartening though to see this old monk Lobsang Yeshe talking about how he went to consult the oracle and was advised by DS to escort DL to leave Tibet immediately. I can see saddness in his eyes.

Hard times for DS practitioners will soon be over, I hope, as we all put in our efforts in whichever way we can to create the merits for this ban to be lifted soon. Every effort counts.

May the suffering of the monks and DS practitioners not be in vain, may the truth always prevail!
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: samayakeeper on December 20, 2011, 02:38:29 AM: The 30 monks would not have lied and narrated their harrowing experiences of escape consistently. Why would 30 monks say what they saw, heard and experienced and all these pointed to the thangka of Dorje Shugden and how Dorje Shugden and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche assisted the Dalai Lama in the escape? It could only be the truth. I do not care what the Tibetan govt in exile say, these 30 monks would not lie.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: LosangKhyentse on December 20, 2011, 11:16:12 AM: Quote from: samayakeeper on December 20, 2011, 02:38:29 AM
The 30 monks would not have lied and narrated their harrowing experiences of escape consistently. Why would 30 monks say what they saw, heard and experienced and all these pointed to the thangka of Dorje Shugden and how Dorje Shugden and Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche assisted the Dalai Lama in the escape? It could only be the truth. I do not care what the Tibetan govt in exile say, these 30 monks would not lie.

Either the 3o monks and Trijang Rinpoche are speaking falsely or HH the Dalai Lama is speaking words of untruth for whatever reasons good.

I highly doubt any of these senior sangha members would speak untruth and what gains could they possible derive. They are the ones that safely escorted HH 14th Dalai Lama out of Tibet in 1959 risking their lives. They were actual eye witnesses to the whole event.

This thangka only confirms what many of the senior lamas in Gaden, Sera and Drepung spoke of for years. No doubt HH Dalai Lama in 1959 was propititating a plethora of Guardians such as Mahakala, Pelden Hlamo, Nechung, Dorje Shugden and Kalarupa. His country was falling apart, he was young, he had very little experience in state affairs and he would have to escape into exile. He relied heavily on the advice and thoughts of his tutors Kyabje Ling Rinpoche and Kyabje Trijang Rinpche. Naturally Trijang Rinpoche would have given his disciple Dalai Lama the best protection he can think of -Dorje Shugden. And surely the Dalai Lama would have gladly taken the thangka of Shugden as protection and blessings from his teacher on his arduous 14 day exodus out of Tibet into the safety of India. The Dalai Lama only stopped propititating Shugden in the mid 70's.

Remember Dalai Lama through Trijang Rinpoche consulted the Panglung oracle for advice in 1959 (see here: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10289 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10289) ). Shugden took trance of the Panglung oracle and told Dalai Lama to leave Tibet immediately and he would guide and protect him. With this advice the Dalai Lama immediately prepared to leave and never set foot in his homeland again till today. It was Dorje Shugden's decisive advice that saved Dalai Lama's life. And indirectly the fate of Tibetan Buddhism. There are many things CTA, Dalai Lama and practicing Tibetan Buddhists have Dorje Shugden to be grateful for.
TK
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: biggyboy on December 20, 2011, 11:26:27 AM: Wow! What a rare and sacred beautiful thangka! Thank you Mana for sharing this news breaking.

Having the 30 monks to speak about how HHDL escape Tibet safely and carried the said sacred DS thangka with him is something one should not dismiss or take it lightly. Why would the monks lie? They suffered and has to face all the discrimination and abuse from others whom has outcast them yet they are still going strong and devote faithfully to DS.

Dorje Shugden has definitely helped HHDL to safety! Whatever HH's reason to ban the practice...I could not comprehend either. Anyway, look at how the ban has done now. People got curious wanted to know more!..that's how human's mind works. The bigger the wider it will grow. More so Buddhism will spread much much further and wider too. Isn't this great? Come on let the truth prevail at all times and the ban be lifted soon enough for it to grow exponentially!
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: WisdomBeing on December 20, 2011, 12:16:56 PM: Does anyone know whether there was also Dorje Shugden's sword which the Dalai Lama took when he went into exile? I vaguely remember someone telling me that story. I wonder where that sword is.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: shugdenprotect on December 20, 2011, 04:24:10 PM: The thangka is magnificent. Powerfully beautiful!

Thank you Mana for posting this image together with details of HHDL’s escape story with Dorje Shugden’s protection. I visualize how this thangka acted like a literal shield on HH's back throughout the life threatening escape journey. It reveals, once again, how prevailing the protection of Dorje Shugden is.

It is heart wrenching to see the pain on the faces of the sangha who knows with certainty the falsity of HH's claim about Dorje Shugden. The immediate question is: Why?! Why do good people like them suffer?!

Upon reflection, perhaps it is the collective karma of our time. For us, we have the negative karma that causes difficulty to meet with this sacred practice as it is not directly promoted by the ‘icon’ of Buddhism of the 21st century – the 14th Dalai Lama. For the sangha (no disrespect intended and advanced apologies if my sharing of thought is offensive and rude), although superficially they are in a “bad” place, I read in ‘The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying’ that the opportunity to suffer for others is actually a blessing as it cleans up our negative karma. So, perhaps, because they are such good people, these sangha have the opportunity to suffer for others in their practice of Dorje Shugden.

It is not possible to erase the suffering they endured. However, what can be done is to act on the constant commitment to create a huge collection of merits so that the ban will soon be lifted empowering 1) the truth about Dorje Shugden to become known and 2) these sanghas to enjoy the liberty of practicing Dorje Shugden proudly and openly this lifetime.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: DharmaSpace on December 20, 2011, 05:07:58 PM: Imagine the world without the Dalai Lama, Buddhism would not be as famous as it is now. Dalai Lama has made Buddhism famous and accesible for the people from all corners of the world. What country's residence especially those who have heard or read Dalai Lama's teachings would not want to invite the Dalai Lama.

If Dorje Shugden was truly harmful/evil, he would have seen the benefit Dalai Lama would have brought to the world, and would have revealed to the Chinese the Location of Dala Lama.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: beggar on December 21, 2011, 07:37:59 AM: It was around this time, or perhaps a few years before the exodus, that Dorje Shugden, through the Panglung Oracle insisted that the Tibetans formed an elite protective, warrior group which would become the ChuShi GangTruk. There had been some resistance to forming this group at first, until finally Dorje Shugden became very wrathful and said that if they do not form this group, then they should stop coming to consult him.

The ChuShi GangTruk (Six Rivers, Four Mountains) was formed - something like a guerilla group, made up of strong khampa warriors. It was this group that escorted the Dalai Lama out of Tibet when he left in 1959. Amazing foresight of the Protector to foresee the urgent need for a properly trained, capable group to accompany the Dalai Lama on this very dangerous journey. This was way ahead of time, before there was even any hint of danger or trouble with Chinese, or any hint that the Dalai Lama would have to leave.

There were also around 30 monks from Sera Monastery that formed part of the entourage. These monks are still alive and they still remember the stories. The link within that article, of the Sera monk talking about their escape is very poignant. here it is again:http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1048 There is no way these monks would be lying - all their stories correlate, and anyway, what would they gain from lying?

It fits perfectly with this recent news about the thangka (thank you for sharing - revolutionary and amazing, blows the truth out of the water!)
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: DSFriend on December 21, 2011, 09:58:35 AM: Isn't it ironic that more and more proof to support who helped HHDL escape are being uncovered in such a short time after HHDL "resigned" and after TGIE became CTA. These undeniable truths are vital to be made known to all. The time of our Protector has come?!!

The information about this thangka sure is an incredible continuation of the historical facts of how Chushi Gangdruk successfully escorted the Dalai Lama out of Tibet in 1959, as advised by Panglung Oracle http://dorjeshugden.net/wp/?p=8850 (http://dorjeshugden.net/wp/?p=8850)

I was just thinking,..does HHDL need to carry the thangka of Dorje Shugden to keep him safe? I find it easier to continue believing that HHDL is an emanation of Arya Avalokiteswara and no harm will come to him. While keeping in mind that Dorje Shugden "masterminded" the entire escape way ahead of time and thus, will surely see through completion.

SO WHY did HHDL went to the extent to borrow an offering made to his Guru Trijang Rinpoche, and to carry the thangka on his own back throughout the escape? Wouldn't he know that the 30 monks would live to tell the world of this unforgettable journey?
To consider --> Trijang Rinpoche, HHDL and the many illustrious master's only wish is to benefit. However, at times, methods which may seem contradictory to us needs to be used, referring to the ban. However, due to their immense compassion for us not to be disheartened, they do leave us clues to understand their works.

HHDL carrying the thangka of Dorje Shugden to exile to me is the truth and proof of HHDL and Dorje Shugden's working relation to bring benefit to countless at this time.

Methods change as our karma and times change. Information is made available. We can read and find out for ourselves historical facts, who Dorje Shugden is. The ban was a method perhaps...but from the bottom of my heart, i really do not think it serves its purpose anymore. The ban must be lifted.

To all our online readers all over the world, my wish is that the facts you gathered here will help you along your spiritual path, be at peace and have strong faith that there is no contradiction in the 3 jewels. Share the truths!

--

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=613.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=613.0)
The following is an extract from Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors (pg 125 onwards)
- a masterpiece of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and downloadable from this site.

CONCLUSION: PERVASIVE ENLIGHTENED ACTIVITIES

There is something I must mention at this point. As stated above, the Great Fifth
Dalai Lama and Omniscient Panchen Rinpoche were like Lords of the Teachings. In
actuality they are, respectively, Arya Avalokiteswara and Buddha Amitabha
emanating in the human form of special holy beings. Yet this Lord of Dharma
Protectors exhibited an ability to harm or destroy them, and such events as the
Great Fifth, having been able to summon this Dharmapala to be burned with
intense samadhi but not accomplish it, also shows that the enlightening activities
of these great masters and those of this Dharmapala are each as mutually
universal and pervasive as the other. But some who are narrow minded, not
understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly
being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama,
disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the
Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other
and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being
who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and
hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and
creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future. Why is
this true? Because it is utterly impossible that such great beings, who are special
emanations of Arya Avalokiteswara and Buddha Amitabha, could lack the power
to overcome the harmful force of any sort of magical spell, harmful demon, or
spirit. This is because they are both powerful Lords who have overcome external
and internal maras without exception.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: hope rainbow on December 21, 2011, 01:29:47 PM: Quote from: DSFriend on December 21, 2011, 09:58:35 AM
I was just thinking,..does HHDL need to carry the thangka of Dorje Shugden to keep him safe?
I find it easier to continue believing that HHDL is an emanation of Arya Avalokiteswara and no harm will come to him.
While keeping in mind that Dorje Shugden "masterminded" the entire escape way ahead of time and thus, will surely see through completion.

SO WHY did HHDL went to the extent to borrow an offering made to his Guru Trijang Rinpoche, and to carry the thangka on his own back throughout the escape?
Wouldn't he know that the 30 monks would live to tell the world of this unforgettable journey?

Dear DS Friend,
What an interesting observation indeed. I did not think of that...
This sounds like someone leaving clues behind...
The next step in the plot is to hear of a denial of that story to make it even more widespread... oops...
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Positive Change on December 21, 2011, 02:38:18 PM: Quote from: hope rainbow on December 21, 2011, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: DSFriend on December 21, 2011, 09:58:35 AM
I was just thinking,..does HHDL need to carry the thangka of Dorje Shugden to keep him safe?
I find it easier to continue believing that HHDL is an emanation of Arya Avalokiteswara and no harm will come to him.
While keeping in mind that Dorje Shugden "masterminded" the entire escape way ahead of time and thus, will surely see through completion.

SO WHY did HHDL went to the extent to borrow an offering made to his Guru Trijang Rinpoche, and to carry the thangka on his own back throughout the escape?
Wouldn't he know that the 30 monks would live to tell the world of this unforgettable journey?

Dear DS Friend,
What an interesting observation indeed. I did not think of that...
This sounds like someone leaving clues behind...
The next step in the plot is to hear of a denial of that story to make it even more widespread... oops...

On the same vein and thread of thought... I have already "heard" of the "denial" (shared below). In a way it wasn't so much of a denial but an omission of the facts. With no disrespect to HHDL, it was said that the thangka was actually that of Penden Lhamo. Perhaps there were two or more? But surely adds to the controversy which is rattling the cage to a breaking point? :P

excerpt from speech by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama to the Second Gelug Conference (Dharamsala, 6 December 2000) - http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/speeches-by-his-holiness/gelug-conference (http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/speeches-by-his-holiness/gelug-conference)

Quote
When it came to important decisions, he was told to direct all of his questions to Palden Lhamo by performing divinations before the thangka in question. This thangka is thus held in very high esteem. When I escaped from Tibet, I carried this thangka with me personally. I had it on one shoulder and a gun slung across the other. I was supposed to look like one of the guards in a detachment. One attendant was made out to look like some sort of military leader and we his escort.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: vajrastorm on December 21, 2011, 03:08:38 PM: "Protector whose time is now...." It's the timing of revelations such as this by the Sera monks who had actually accompanied the Dalai Lama when he escaped from Tibet to India. These guardians of the sacred and precious thangka of Dorje Shugden( which protected the Dalai Lama and saw him safely into India from Tibet) are now making a mind-blowing revelation which establishes without doubt that it was definitely Dorje Shugden who engineered the Dalai Lam's escape, telling him to immediately leave Tibet and delineating the escape route and protected him all the way to India.

So we must see this revelation as signifying the beginning of the unravelling of all the mischievous and malicious work designed to put Dorje Shugden down and remove him. This must surely give much impetus for Shugden practitioners and devotees to rally even more to the cause of promoting and spreading Shugden and vindicating him. We must surely double our efforts in creating causes for the ban to be lifted quickly.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: negra orquida on December 21, 2011, 05:04:41 PM: When I read this article, I felt the hairs on my body stand up... I thought: wow this is really a big revelation, an eye-opener to all and hopefully even to the anti-DSers... Thank goodness for the courage, persistence and loyalty of these grand monks to their lineage, gurus and Dorje Shugden, to save this crucial and beautiful piece of evidence and continue practicing DS. For if not for them, we would not be able to see the other side of this coin, and the practice may die out sooner.

Then I read through the comments of this forum subject.. and I then I thought, the way HHDL (and DS) operates to spread Dharma like wildfire in the shortest time possible is really beyond anyone's imagination (if the end result indeed is for this).

Quote
Isn't it ironic that more and more proof to support who helped HHDL escape are being uncovered in such a short time after HHDL "resigned" and after TGIE became CTA. These undeniable truths are vital to be made known to all.

Maybe there's another way to view HHDL's resignation... why is the ban still on even though HHDL has resigned? Could it be that it is the people running the CTA (and not HHDL) who are the ones who want to continue the ban? But why?? Since it causes its practitioners so much suffering and disharmony?

So many sides to the coin... I hope that the end result is indeed to help more beings by the spreading of Dharma in such a way, and the sufferings experienced by DS practitioners (and anti DS-ers) will not be in vain. Please please please lets get this resolved soon!
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Reena Searl on December 21, 2011, 11:37:25 PM: “THE TRUTH behind who saved the Dalai Lama’s life”

Since DS saved HHDL and this is the truth, to me the more HHDL continues to ban DS, the more DS will be popular, especially throughout China.

I will continue to spread DS and practice DS with strong faith. Sometime makes me think why would HHDL denied that DS actually helped him to escape to India?

From the other point of view, if DS knew that HHDL would later start the ban of DS, why DS still helping Dalai Lama to escape? Those controversies do make people think deeper.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: thor on December 22, 2011, 01:21:09 AM: Quote from: negra orquida on December 21, 2011, 05:04:41 PM
Maybe there's another way to view HHDL's resignation... why is the ban still on even though HHDL has resigned? Could it be that it is the people running the CTA (and not HHDL) who are the ones who want to continue the ban? But why?? Since it causes its practitioners so much suffering and disharmony?

Dear Negra
I highly doubt it is just the CTA who are interested in continuing the ban. Although the dalai lama has resigned, shugden-ites are still not allowed at his teachings. There is no retraction on this point from him. As recently as Nov 2011, just one month ago, Dalai Lama has again reiterated his ban on Shugden in a news item on Voice of Tibet. See here:

Dalai Lama: Today it is like I am giving a lecture. It is not necessary that you listen by recognizing me as Guru. It is alright if you come to listen, saying what Dalai Bashi is saying. Tomorrow you will take a teaching. I am giving an initiation. I am giving vow. Therefore there will be Guru and disciple relationship. Pure commitment is necessary. During the course of initiation, the pure commitment is necessary. In time, I worshipped the so-called King Shugden. I didn't know and I make a mistake. Then, having paid attention, it was wrong. Also, during the course of through analysis, king Shugden emerged during the time of the fifth Dalai Lama. If I say about the way the fifth Dalai Lama recognize king Shugden, according to his text, the nature of king Shugden is evil spirit; its cause was the wrong prayer; and its function is to harm Buddhism and living beings. So if you say this is a protector of Buddhism, or a protector of Gelug Tradition, it is disgrace and shame. Je Rinpoche has empowered and entrusted Six hands Mahakala and Dharmaraj. Je Rinpoche has seen capability in them. Simply speaking, he didn't empower them on guesses. (laugh). If you worship king Shugden, you have broken commitment with the fifth Dalai Lama, and so to the thirteen Dalai Lama. If you receive an initiation from me, you will break commitment with me. If there is anyone who worship king Shugden – actually it is your choice whether or not you worship - , please don’t come to receive teaching from me. If you are a monk or a lay, please don’t come tomorrow. If you are deceived by saying that business and luck would flourish, you should stop from now. You don’t need to be afraid at all. In case a case is necessary to be filed, I would file the case. You don’t need to be afraid. It is a freedom if you contempt although you know it is wrong. It doesn’t matter if you walk upside down.

What a stark contradiction between what Dalai Lama is saying and how Dorje Shugden helped him escape from Tibet. I am more inclined to believe the testimony of the monks instead of the Dalai Lama (sorry). Why? Because these monks were present during the actual escape. They risked their lives to escort the Dalai Lama out of Tibet and to safety. They offered their bodies to protect the Dalai Lama when he was in danger. Why would they do that unless they had great faith and love for Dalai Lama? As well as in Dorje Shugden of course.

So, these old monks who have helped save the Dalai Lama's life are now spending the rest of their lives in 'exile' in the monastery for refusal to give up their devotion to their gurus and to Dorje Shugden. All the good they have done is swept away just because of one small little point. How silly and illogical. So much about this ban is silly and illogical and doesnt make much sense at all. Can the Dalai Lama really be that 'ungrateful' and 'illogical' and 'unkind'?
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: dondrup on December 22, 2011, 09:54:12 AM: The ban on Dorje Shugden (DS) practice had caused so much sufferings, pains, confusions, doubts, anger etc. to DS practitioners. There had also been so much wastage of resources in enforcing the ban. Due to the collective karma of all of us, we have to endure sufferings and obstacles in practising Dorje Shugden.

The facts, truths and discussion presented here in this thread and in the dorjeshugden.com had really helped me and will benefit many others to understand and appreciate more the DS issue.

There is definitely a higher purpose to the ban.

Majority of us who do not have the higher wisdom will not understand why the ban, why His Holiness the Dalai Lama (HHDL) continue to go against DS practice and why HHDL appears to be lack of gratitude to DS who had saved His life? Can HHDL who is Buddha Avalokiteshvara be wrong?

As more and more truths are been revealed day by day, may many more lay or ordained Dorje Shugden practitioners be inspired to speak out to help lift the ban!
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: tsangpakarpo on December 22, 2011, 11:32:14 AM: I heard another version of this story. Yes, HHDL did carry the thangka on his back during the exodus. But how HH got the thangka was quite amazing.

I was told, Trijang Rinpoche commissioned this thangka to be painted and given to HH The 14th Dalai Lama back in Tibet because HH decided to practice Dorje Shugden with faith back then. Trijang Rinpoche knew that HH likes Dorje Shugden very much.

Whatever the story is, we can be sure that HH did carry the Dorje Shugden thangka along when He went to India. Many has spoken and provided proof. This thangka is one of them.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Rihanna on December 22, 2011, 05:15:24 PM: It made me so angry for a moment when i read this post and found out the truth. Then sanity set in...in any normal circumstances i would say what an ungrateful person HHDL is. But he is definitely not you nor me; so i choose to believe he has his reasons for denying that it was Dorje Shugden thangka that he carried out of Tibet into safety.
I remember reading In Exile From The Land of Snow. HHDL said that once during his escape journey, they were in a clearing and they saw the Chinese plans above. Suddenly clouds appeared above them and sheltered them from the view of the Chinese. Who else could have manifested the clouds in an instance???
I so wish there is a duplicate of this thangka that I can get...
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Big Uncle on December 22, 2011, 06:02:22 PM: Quote from: Positive Change on December 21, 2011, 02:38:18 PM
Quote from: hope rainbow on December 21, 2011, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: DSFriend on December 21, 2011, 09:58:35 AM
I was just thinking,..does HHDL need to carry the thangka of Dorje Shugden to keep him safe?
I find it easier to continue believing that HHDL is an emanation of Arya Avalokiteswara and no harm will come to him.
While keeping in mind that Dorje Shugden "masterminded" the entire escape way ahead of time and thus, will surely see through completion.

SO WHY did HHDL went to the extent to borrow an offering made to his Guru Trijang Rinpoche, and to carry the thangka on his own back throughout the escape?
Wouldn't he know that the 30 monks would live to tell the world of this unforgettable journey?

Dear DS Friend,
What an interesting observation indeed. I did not think of that...
This sounds like someone leaving clues behind...
The next step in the plot is to hear of a denial of that story to make it even more widespread... oops...

On the same vein and thread of thought... I have already "heard" of the "denial" (shared below). In a way it wasn't so much of a denial but an omission of the facts. With no disrespect to HHDL, it was said that the thangka was actually that of Penden Lhamo. Perhaps there were two or more? But surely adds to the controversy which is rattling the cage to a breaking point? :P

excerpt from speech by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama to the Second Gelug Conference (Dharamsala, 6 December 2000) - [url]http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/speeches-by-his-holiness/gelug-conference[/url] ([url]http://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/speeches-by-his-holiness/gelug-conference[/url])

Quote
When it came to important decisions, he was told to direct all of his questions to Palden Lhamo by performing divinations before the thangka in question. This thangka is thus held in very high esteem. When I escaped from Tibet, I carried this thangka with me personally. I had it on one shoulder and a gun slung across the other. I was supposed to look like one of the guards in a detachment. One attendant was made out to look like some sort of military leader and we his escort.

I read the same thing too! That the Dalai Lama carried a Pelden Hlama thangka on his back when he made his great escape from Tibet. How very sad that he had to change his facts around, call his Gurus wrong, deny these great monks the truth, cook up a story that Dorje Shugden is evil and does his best to make it believable by enrolling other-worldly beings like Nechung into the plot and throw in a ban as well.

He is doing all that and risking so much reputation loss and loss of power because his people are divided in order to suppress this obscure practice? Come one! There must be a more plausible reason for this instead of the same tired reason that he is power hungry. We have to give the Dalai Lama some credit. It is a very bad way to gain power because the results are showing right now. The Dalai Lama is losing credibility and foothold on great many monastics and lay people that choose to hold on their lineage practice. So, there must a more plausible answer to this.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: icy on December 23, 2011, 05:31:10 AM: It is a great wonder how H.H. The Dalai Lama escaped to India to safety during the red guard attack with Dorje Shugden thangka on his back and on Dorje Shugden recommended escape route. H.H. The Dalai Lama’s life had relied on Dorje Shugden’s divine intelligence in such a dangerous escape without any of the modern science and aids that the US Central Intelligence has privy to. If the US CIA were to be asked to use DS’s intelligence in that situation, they will surely pee in their pants. It proved here that H.H. The Dalai Lama has complete faith and trust in Dorje shugden who is no less than the Buddha Manjushri.

Hence whatever the motive for banning DS, people around the world will soon discover the truth of Dorje Shugden. People cannot comprehend the lies about Dorje Shugden and the whole episode is really a mockery of H.H.The Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Government. Would not it be better if the ban be lifted IMMEDIATELY? 8)
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Ensapa on December 23, 2011, 02:43:50 PM: Personally i feel that HHDL is putting up an act of sorts for a purpose. I am unable to guess his intentions but how can someone change his stance based on something so flimsy and insubstancial? yet his past actions reveal otherwise.

I guess we wont know until he removes the ban. Perhaps next year.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: pgdharma on December 23, 2011, 03:53:14 PM: The Dalai Lama has instituted a ban against Dorje Shugden, claiming that he is an evil spirit and will harm the Dalai Lama’s life. So why did he request to borrow the thangka as protection from his Guru Trijang Rinpoche when he was advised by Dorje Shugden to escape Tibet? I would say that HHDL contradicts his actions. But who am I at my level to question the actions of HHDL. Being an emanation of Avalokiteshvara he has his reasons for all these actions. Why is it that if Dorje Shugden knew that HHDL would later start the ban of DS worshiping, why did Dorje Shugden still help HHDL to escape? So I believe both HHDL and Dorje Shugden are working hand in hand.

May the ban be lifted soon so that the sacrifices and sufferings of the monks and DS practitioners will not be in vain!
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: beggar on December 23, 2011, 09:19:44 PM: Quote from: thor on December 22, 2011, 01:21:09 AM
What a stark contradiction between what Dalai Lama is saying and how Dorje Shugden helped him escape from Tibet. I am more inclined to believe the testimony of the monks instead of the Dalai Lama (sorry). Why? Because these monks were present during the actual escape. They risked their lives to escort the Dalai Lama out of Tibet and to safety. They offered their bodies to protect the Dalai Lama when he was in danger. Why would they do that unless they had great faith and love for Dalai Lama? As well as in Dorje Shugden of course.

Thor, an excellent point (in red, especially). What is most remarkable about these monks is their unwavering loyalty and devotion to BOTH the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden. Their devotion and patience is enough for me to see who I should believe and which Sangha I should take refuge. It has always amazed me that all these Shugden monks (from the ones that escorted the Dalai Lama out, to the ones who have started up Serpom and Shar Gaden) remain patient and respectful always towards the Dalai Lama. In spite of all they have to go through, we never hear of them speaking badly or launching attacks against the Dalai Lama. This alone speaks volumes for the "quality" and the high, true level of their practice. I know who I choose to believe and emulate.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Ensapa on December 24, 2011, 01:49:20 PM: On this page, i feel very embarrassed when i see Shugden practitioners smearing HHDL's name. Dont they KNOW what their protector wants? They are doing the exact opposite of what their protector wants. It is really a sad twist.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Barzin on December 24, 2011, 10:28:25 PM: Looks like more and more loopholes in the stories. I personally think this is just amazing... How the stories reconnected after all these years and still valid. HHDL would have clearly known that monk shouldn't lie, if he didn't then the truth is the truth. More and more evidence of the close relationship between His Holiness and Shugden is surfacing now. And the feeling in lifting the ban is getting stronger and stronger. Yes, His holiness definitely knows that the truth will be found out someday. It would have been so easy to destroy the thangka to get rid of evidence, why wouldn't he? and clearly he would have known these evidence are still laying around. With such power, it would have been easy to destroy all evidence but why wouldn't he?

I am just guessing that HHDL is manifesting flaws just like Shugden taking the blame now. Call it repaying his kindness maybe? Only the Buddhas know what is going to happen. But is it really necessary? to lie? to cause sufferings for the old monks? the segregation between the practitioners and sangha community? Is it OK for the old monks who had dedicated the entire life in serving others die unknown? Or is it really okay that we just want to practice dharma but it has becoming more and more politic?

If it's not, then CTA. Do something. It is a great shame that you are causing your own people to suffer. A big shame. Do it fast before more and more thangka surfacing. By the way, the thangka is magnificent!
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Manjushri on December 25, 2011, 02:13:22 PM: What struck me most is that if the Dalai Lama's claim of Dorje Shugden being an evil spirit is true, then how is it possible that Dorje Shugden can:

1. Forsee and advice DL to leave Tibet.

2. Pinpoint the route out of Tibet for the DL and entourage to use when escaping.

3. (I read this from Beggar's comment) - Strongly advised of the formation of the ChuShi GangTruk, which eventually played a huge role in escorting the Dalai Lama on his journey.

Evil Spirit's clairvoyances wouldn't be as trustworthy, can it, as it is limited, unlike the clairvoyance of an enlightened being. So then it would be obvious that the Dalai Lama knows that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit therefore trusted DS all the way during a very dangerous time. Also, I remember I read it somewhere that Nechung's advise to Dalai Lama then was to not leave, and when DS was consulted DS said to leave immediately. So why would Dalai Lama follow Dorje Shugden's advices and not Nechung's?

That aside, the thangka is a beauty. I find it so cool that when "the Chinese invaded the Norbulingka Palace (Dalai Lama’s summer home), they literally could not see the Dalai Lama and so he was not harmed. At that time, the Dalai Lama was carrying a Dorje Shugden thangka." Seems like something out of Harry Potter when he puts on the invincible cloak. But a point I'm curious about is that since the Dalai Lama is an emanation of Avalokiteshvara, an enlightened being, and definitely will not have the karma to be killed, why would he need to ask for the thangka from Trijang Rinpoche to carry with him out of Tibet?.. Maybe the Dalai Lama is leaving clues behind, for a bigger reason. Anyways, I am sure the 30monks would not lie, what good is there for them to break their vows? It must be out of respect for their high regard of Dorje Shugden, and the Dalai Lama (for not even once making a negative comment on the Dalai Lama).
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Carpenter on December 26, 2011, 04:58:50 PM: Dear Mana, thank you for the sharing of this information, indeed, this thangka is very beautiful and stunning.

So, since Dorje Shugden has saved Dalai Lama’s life in 1959 and later on Dalai Lama’s teaching benefitted so many people. I would not believe that the Dalai Lama will ban the practice of Dorje Shugden, especially when he is known as the emanation of Chenrezig, this does not make sense at all.

Furthermore, since Dalai Lama is already been known as the spiritual leader, why would he want to split up the Buddhism apart and take over it as a supreme leader? Does it sound logic? Everytime when there some issue going on, there will be lots of rumours flying around, and normally people will just pluck one as they feel comfortable with and to believe it as truth, but they didn’t realize as sometimes when they walk one step back and think it over again, they will find that what they used to believe as truth, actually it does not make sense.

What I see about this ban is actually a huge purification process of the collective karma from the Dorje Shugden practitioner is having by going through all these difficulties, sufferings, etc… When they are able to overcome all these obstacles, a stronger faith developed, a stable mind is formed, with this; they would be able to advance further in their spiritual practice and to benefit even more people.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Galen on December 26, 2011, 05:58:45 PM: Let's hope that with this new revelation, it will assist in the lifting of the ban sooner. It is true that DS did help HHDL out of Tibet through the consultation of the Panglung oracle and HHDL carrying this DS thanka on his back out of Tibet to India. It means that HHDL did believe and trust DS for his life!

There's is another story circulating in the TIbetan community is that they believe that HHDL is plotting to become the head of Buddhism in the world. Therefore, HHDL needs to break up the schools of Tibetan Buddhism. Gelug being the strongest school who has a lot of famous lineage masters, HHDL would need to generate support. By breaking up the Gelug school, the threat would be lessen. There's also the Karmapa issue where there are 3 Karmapas and this has caused a break in their school. Also there's 2 Panchen Lama, also a break up. So, it may be true that HHDL is garnering support to become the head of Buddhism in the world.

One of the other reason that HHDL is not lifting the DS ban is because of the issue of Tibet not achieving their Independence. There was a point in time where HHDL declared that Tibet would achieve its independence in 2 years. The 2 years have come and gone by and Tibet is still not free. So, the Dalai Lama is blaming DS practitioner for Tibet not gaining independence. Therefore, diverting the real reason why he can't achieve independence.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: shugdenpromoter on December 27, 2011, 09:54:36 AM: Quote from: beggar on December 23, 2011, 09:19:44 PM
Quote from: thor on December 22, 2011, 01:21:09 AM

Thor, an excellent point (in red, especially). What is most remarkable about these monks is their unwavering loyalty and devotion to BOTH the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden. Their devotion and patience is enough for me to see who I should believe and which Sangha I should take refuge. It has always amazed me that all these Shugden monks (from the ones that escorted the Dalai Lama out, to the ones who have started up Serpom and Shar Gaden) remain patient and respectful always towards the Dalai Lama. In spite of all they have to go through, we never hear of them speaking badly or launching attacks against the Dalai Lama. This alone speaks volumes for the "quality" and the high, true level of their practice. I know who I choose to believe and emulate.

I have to agree with you. The majority of the monks who are in Shar Gaden & Serpom in fact "suffer" in silent. They do not talk bad about HH. In fact, I have heard that the old monks who works for Trijang Rinpoche always respect HH. They have said that they have received teachings from HH and HH is their teacher so they will not take down HH pictures from their altar or criticize HH. Wow, when I heard that I was blown away, they are so calm. And these monks "suffered" so much when the ban started. I mean, their guru Trijang Rinpoche had threats when he was in Gaden (I am sure else where too), the monks had problems with their families, also they rest of the monks would have avoided them during that time....No friends, was threaten, no support & etc.

When they build SERPOM and the road to Serpom which also takes you to Sera Mey, the TGIE and some Tibetan monks at that time told the Tibetans not to use the road as it is the ROAD TO HELL. Now everyone uses that road. Serpom don't complaint or talk back. Thank goodness, Serpom did not hire me as an administrator, I would put a toll there and collect money for those who do not belongs to Serpom >:(

I am really blown away with this thangka, I have heard from so many sources that it was a Palden Lhamo thangka which HH carried, now the truth prevails. I am so happy cause someone put in a lot of effort to find out this information and disseminate the information on this website.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: shugdenpromoter on December 27, 2011, 10:09:52 AM: Quote from: Ensapa on December 24, 2011, 01:49:20 PM
On this page, i feel very embarrassed when i see Shugden practitioners smearing HHDL's name. Dont they KNOW what their protector wants? They are doing the exact opposite of what their protector wants. It is really a sad twist.

Dear Ensapa,

Yes, I used to feel disappointed also when I read about others smearing HH name. But as I read more and more from this forum, I realised that these people are not that bad after all. They are FRUSTRATED, they want the TRUTH to be known. I mean, WHERE ELSE CAN YOU FIND all these Shugden INFORMATION if not for this website at the comfort of your home or office? I like to know the TRUTH cause at this moment, the CTA (not even government but just administration office) are STILL influencing the rest of the Tibetans against Shugden. Can you put yourself in a shoe of the monks who has been outcast and disowned by their own family because he choose to stay in shar gaden or serpom cause he listens to his GURU instructions? What about monks who has been disowned and NOT EVEN ALLOW to even attend their own father/mother wake and funeral, family gathering, siblings weddings and etc? It is happening almost every time.

Some people on this forum goes a long way to get information so that people's doubt can be clear about Shugden. Thank You VERY MUCH for that.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: harrynephew on January 14, 2012, 01:09:20 PM: Hey guys!

We need to have this part of Kundun to be edited and re-DONE when the ban is lifted

watch 01:14

12/13 KUNDUN [V.O.sub.español] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vdwt4V5cn0#ws)
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Galen on January 14, 2012, 07:04:53 PM: Haha, Harry Nephew. This is so true. Need to change it so that the truth can be revealed. Dorje Shugden is so compassionate and patient, with facts being twisted, he still continue helping people. In fact even more people will benefit.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: dsiluvu on January 20, 2012, 10:09:40 AM: Seeing this sacred thangka of Dorje Shugden not only amazingly blind blowing but it shows us clearly the relationship and trust that HHDL has on Dorje Shugden. So why follow Dorje Shugden's instruction to leave Tibet and carry Dorje Shugden thangka if Dorje Shugden is a demon? Why was it HH Trijang Rinpoche was right then but now wrong?

Why not listen to Nechung, stay back in Tibet or carry Nechung's thangka as protection when escaping? And surely all 30 monks who followed to protect HHDL could not have made the whole story up, lied so they can suffer being excommunicated from their own monasteries and community.

In some sense, I think HHDL carrying this DS thangka shows how much faith HHDL has on Dorje Shugden and why HHDL do so if DS was not a Buddha?

I like what you said DSFriend and it seem to make more sense come to think of it. And yes if we believe that HHDL is Avalokitesvara, then why would he honestly need a DS thangka to "protect" him? Definitely the truth would be unveiled sooner or later as it has now... some how more and more clues seem to be popping up to prove the illogicalness of the ban... perhaps it's time for the ban lifted!?!

Quote from: DSFriend on December 21, 2011, 09:58:35 AM
I was just thinking,..does HHDL need to carry the thangka of Dorje Shugden to keep him safe? I find it easier to continue believing that HHDL is an emanation of Arya Avalokiteswara and no harm will come to him. While keeping in mind that Dorje Shugden "masterminded" the entire escape way ahead of time and thus, will surely see through completion.

SO WHY did HHDL went to the extent to borrow an offering made to his Guru Trijang Rinpoche, and to carry the thangka on his own back throughout the escape? Wouldn't he know that the 30 monks would live to tell the world of this unforgettable journey?
To consider --> Trijang Rinpoche, HHDL and the many illustrious master's only wish is to benefit. However, at times, methods which may seem contradictory to us needs to be used, referring to the ban. However, due to their immense compassion for us not to be disheartened, they do leave us clues to understand their works.

HHDL carrying the thangka of Dorje Shugden to exile to me is the truth and proof of HHDL and Dorje Shugden's working relation to bring benefit to countless at this time.

Methods change as our karma and times change. Information is made available. We can read and find out for ourselves historical facts, who Dorje Shugden is. The ban was a method perhaps...but from the bottom of my heart, i really do not think it serves its purpose anymore. The ban must be lifted.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: icy on January 21, 2012, 04:24:07 AM: Quote from: harrynephew on January 14, 2012, 01:09:20 PM
Hey guys!

We need to have this part of Kundun to be edited and re-DONE when the ban is lifted

watch 01:14

12/13 KUNDUN [V.O.sub.español] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vdwt4V5cn0#ws[/url])

You are so intelligent Harrynephew!! but I think if we can we have it done NOW so could educate the truth to the whole world. No need to wait for the ban. It will be so exciting to watch the real stuff. Can some one out there do it?
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Manjushri on April 01, 2012, 11:43:49 AM: It is a widely known fact that Dorje Shugden saved HHDL and advised him to flee Tibet during the Chinese invasion..

But look at this! On the Nechung Oracle's website, it seems like Nechung claimed the credit too:
"A large number of Tibetans have lived in exile since Tibet’s full occupation in 1959 by Communist China. At that time, it was based on the advice and assistance of the Oracle that H.H. the Dalai Lama, His family and Tutors accomplished a safe passage out of Tibet into India. Reliant upon the help of the Nechung Oracle, many Tibetans, and great lamas were able to escape, providing the impetus to support H.H. the Dalai Lama’s reestablishing the Tibetan Culture, Religion and Government in Exile."
(http://nechung.org/oracle/about.php (http://nechung.org/oracle/about.php))

Hmm, I wonder if Nechung really did have any part to play in advising H.H on the safe passage out of Tibet... I thought all he did was advise H.H. not to leave.

If H.H. did not have faith in DS, H.H. would not have composed the praise to D.S, here: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=346 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=346)

If H.H did not have faith in DS, he would not have specifically requested for the thangka to protect and guide him out of Tibet.

Harry Nephew, great spot! I haven't watched this movie before. is it any good?
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: icy on April 04, 2012, 12:30:50 PM: Quote from: Mana on December 19, 2011, 10:37:13 PM
THE TRUTH behind who saved the Dalai Lama’s life

An incredible revelation has come to light about the H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama’s perilous escape from Tibet, and the truth about who really saved his life during those most dangerous times.

Some very courageous monks from both Gaden and Sera Monasteries have revealed many very interesting facts as below, which contradict what has been popularized. The truth has been covered up and denied by the Tibetan Government since the escape of the Dalai Lama and his people in 1959.

-- First, it was under H.H. Trijang Rinpoche’s advice that the Dalai Lama sought the counsel of the enlightened Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden through the most famous oracle in the land, Panglung Oracle.

-- By following Dorje Shugden’s instructions, the Dalai Lama escaped many terrible fates. For example, once, when the Chinese invaded the Norbulingka Palace (Dalai Lama’s summer home), they literally could not see the Dalai Lama and so he was not harmed. At that time, the Dalai Lama was carrying a Dorje Shugden thangka.

-- Through the Panglung Oracle, Dorje Shugden advised the Dalai Lama to leave Tibet immediately and advised him which route to take. Dorje Shugden assured that he would protect the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama followed this instruction and left immediately. The day after, the Dalai Lama’s palace, the Potala, was completely shelled and bombed. He and his entourage were protected throughout the escape and arrived in India safely.

-- The Gaden monks explained that the Dalai Lama had made an offering of THIS THANGKA PAINTING to his Guru Trijang Rinpoche. However, when he needed to escape Tibet, the Dalai Lama requested Trijang Rinpoche to borrow this thangka as protection. Knowing the tremendous benefit that the Dalai Lama would bring to the world through teachings and the Tibetan Buddhist lineage, Trijang Rinpoche immediately lent him the thangka.

-- The Dalai Lama carried this thangka on his back throughout his escape towards India.

-- All this points clearly to the fact that Dorje Shugden saved the Dalai Lama’s life and helped him escape unscathed from the dangers in Tibet.

-- This thangka still exists and is currently preserved by the monks of Trijang Ladrang in Gaden Monastery.

-- As the Dalai Lama escaped, he was accompanied by an entourage of 30 monks from Sera Monastery. To this day, these Sera monks remember that the Dalai Lama had consulted Dorje Shugden and been advised to leave Tibet when he did. They also remember that the Dalai Lama carried this particular Dorje Shugden thangka. See how deeply saddened this Sera monk is as he recalls that journey and reflects on the Dalai Lama’s current ban on Dorje Shugden

Dorje Shugden saved the Dalai Lama's Life ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ2V8wdWMTI#[/url])

or click here: [url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1048[/url] ([url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1048[/url])

Now, the Dalai Lama has instituted a ban against Dorje Shugden, claiming that he is an evil spirit and will harm the Dalai Lama’s life. This is totally illogical! Why would Dorje Shugden help the Dalai Lama escape Tibet safely, and now be a threat to his life? Because of the ban, Dorje Shugden devotees have been attacked and families have been separated; monks are denied welfare and even expelled from their monasteries, which is unheard of in Buddhist history.

([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/trijangthangka1.jpg[/url])
The thangka that His Holiness the Dalai Lama carried with him. Borrowed from His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, this thangka assured the Dalai Lama's safe escape from Tibet. Upon his safe arrival in India, this thangka was returned to Trijang Rinpoche by the Dalai Lama and until this very day, this thangka is enshrined in a very honoured, special place in Trijang Rinpoche's personal house in Gaden. This is the actual thangka that the Dalai Lama carried in a container on his back throughout the whole 1959 exodus

([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/trijangthangka3.jpg[/url])

Gen Jampa, Jangchub Norbu, Gen Dawa spoke passionately about the ban and how people had attempted to harm His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche. These monks are seniors and leaders in the monastery, and very devoted students of the late previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. These are the monks who revealed the information about the Dorje Shugden thangka and are now the guardians of this thangka in Trijang Ladrang

The Tibetan exiled Government in India makes defamatory reports to the police about Dorje Shugden practitioners. They spread rumours that these practitioners are Chinese spies and even try to stop Dorje Shugden practitioners from entering India!

Because the current young incarnation of Trijang Rinpoche continues to practice Dorje Shugden, there have been attacks on his life. Monks have revealed that masked men charged into Trijang Ladrang in Gaden Monastery carrying sticks and wanting to kill Trijang Rinpoche. Fortunately, many monks protected him. In 1995, because of the many threats on his life, the 15-year-old Trijang Rinpoche left India to America. The main reason he left the monastery was the many threats on his life due to this ban on Dorje Shugden.

There is now talk among monks that the Dalai Lama wants to be the spiritual leader of all schools of Buddhism in the world, like a pope of Buddhism. He is achieving this by breaking apart smaller schools of Buddhism – such as by instituting this ban and creating splits within lineages so as to weaken them. It is his hope that when these schools are weakened and have no strong leader, he will be able to step in as supreme head to all Buddhist sects everywhere. (This is not what we at dorjeshugden.com endorse or agree with, but is what many monks are now led to think).

([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/trijangthangka2.jpg[/url])
A close-up of His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche's thangka that guided His Holiness the Dalai Lama to safety. It was carried by the Dalai Lama on his back until he reached safety

([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/images/trijangthangka4.jpg[/url])

This is the 1959 exodus in which His Holiness the Dalai Lama carried with him the Dorje Shugden thangka that brought him safely into India

However, the revelation about the truth of this Dorje Shugden thangka now creates shockwaves in the Buddhist world. Underlying the ban, all its twisted “reasoning” and the misery it has created for Dorje Shugden devotees, THIS THANGKA reveals a whole different story. It proves that the Dalai Lama’s success today, and the success of all Tibetan Buddhist teachers, lineages and centers in the world, actually began first with the blessings and protection of Dorje Shugden as he led the Dalai Lama to safety. All the claims about Dorje Shugden being an evil, harmful spirit are completely unfounded and untrue.

In sharing this, it is our hope that we can show the world the truth about Dorje Shugden, and that the ban can be lifted to allow more religious freedom and peace, tolerance and understanding everywhere.

dorjeshugden.com
dorjeshugden.net

source: [url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10704[/url] ([url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10704[/url])

This is the picture of the HHDL in the escape with his youngest brother Tenzin Choegyal Rinpoche, Ngari Rinpoche in 1959.

It will remind the many Tibetans who have accompanied HHDL in the escape from Lhasa, Tibet through the assistance of Lord Dorje Shugden. It will also remind many Tibetans who had during this escape with HHDL the Thangka of Trijang Rinpoche that HHDL had carried with him throughout the journey. The truth shall always remain the truth no matter what is done to hide the truth. Dorje Shugden is the enlightened wisdom Buddha who planned this safe exodus for HHDL.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: Dondrup Shugden on February 02, 2015, 04:43:10 PM: Dorje Shugden guided and brought the 14 Dalai Lama out of Tibet and testified by 30 monks. This is where you learn the details of the power of Dorje Shugden with evidence and proof of the event of the Dalai Lama safety out of Tibet.

It is not hearsay but the truth as shown here.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: christine V on February 03, 2015, 05:41:52 PM: Thanks Mana for sharing this beautiful Thangka. H.H the Dalai Lama will not escape Tibet without the helps of Dorje Shugden. In fact, in Tibet itself. Dalai Lama have many times consult to Dorje Shugden. Seem, Dorje Shugden have been the most reliable to Dalai Lama. But, why did Dalai Lama Imposed on the ban?

The real reasons behind Dalai Lama's ban it still not known until H.H reveal.
Title: Re: Do you know the mind-blowing history behind this thangka?
Post by: pgdharma on February 05, 2015, 03:49:52 AM: If the Dalai Lama claims that Dorje Shugden is an an evil spirit then why should the Dalai Lama adhered to the advice from Dorje Shugden to leave Tibet and followed the route pointed out by Dorje Shugden? Would an enlightened being like Dalai Lama who is the emanation of Avalokiteshvara listened to an evil spirit? Isn’t it obvious that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit and that the Dalai Lama trusted HIM?

So why the ban, Dalai Lama? Out of your compassion, please lift the ban.