dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mana on February 13, 2012, 07:08:29 PM
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Dear Sir / Madam,
I am writing to you to draw your attention to a most important issue within the Tibetan Buddhist community. This is not about any Free Tibet issues. This is something even more important about the freedom of people within the Tibetan community and among each other.
1. It is well known that His Holiness the Dalai Lamas throughout their incarnations over the centuries have been both secular and spiritual heads of the Tibetans. This may have worked in the past, in a country that was isolated from the rest of the world. However, many countries throughout the modern world understand that the mixing of secular and religious affairs cannot work. This system has failed time and time again, throughout history, in all the largest nations in the world.
But this is not so in the exiled Tibetan community living in India. His Holiness the Dalai Lama, up until very recently, held both secular and spiritual leadership of his people. Decisions and policies made for the country encompassed both secular and religious edicts at the same time. This has become very pronounced during the Dalai Lama’s ban on the religious worship of the Buddha Dorje Shugden.
2. As a spiritual leader of his people, it may be the prerogative of the Dalai Lama to proclaim a ban on a particular religious practice. In fact, he has even banned all Dorje Shugden devotees from attending his sermons, rituals and special religious ceremonies. Within a spiritual sphere, perhaps this is still permissible, since he is their religious authority. Also, any Lama has the right to determine which students are permitted to attend their ceremonies.
However, as the secular leader of his people, the Dalai Lama should maintain an unbiased concern for all citizens of the nation under him, no matter what their religious choices are. He should NOT exclude people from coming to see him as their political, secular leader during his non-religious activities, talks or appearances. Unfortunately however, this is what is happening: Dorje Shugden devotees are not permitted to have anything to do with the Dalai Lama or his people, solely because of his religious beliefs.
At the same time, although this is a spiritual matter, the secular institution of the Central Tibetan Administration (formerly known as the Tibetan Government-in-Exile) has also become deeply involved. They actively search for Dorje Shugden people to create obvious segregation and undemocratic bias. When they find them, the CTA ostracizes, attacks and ridicules Dorje Shugden practitioners. They deny them any of the welfare, voting rights or privileges that all citizens of a country should be equally entitled to.
Through the ban, Tibetans are forced to make an exclusive decision – choose to follow the Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden. However, if they choose to continue with Dorje Shugden, they do not only lose connections to the Dalai Lama. They are also severed from all voting rights, education, social welfare, medical aid or even social interaction with their fellow Tibetan citizens. This is because the Dalai Lama has said clearly that Tibetans must completely sever all social, working and religious ties with Dorje Shugden practitioners.
This is NOT RIGHT. The Dalai Lama may have supreme spiritual authority over his people, as their religious leader. However, as he is also their secular leader, he should still have equal care and concern for his people as citizens of his nation. This goes beyond one’s religious orientation, which is every individual’s freedom to choose. Even if someone is not allowed to associate with the Dalai Lama for religious reasons, they should still have the right to associate with their secular, political leader. After all, they are still citizens of the community – shouldn’t all citizens be granted equal liberties and civil rights, regardless of their religious choices? Shouldn’t every secular leader have equal concern for the people under his leadership and take care of their welfare irregardless of their religious beliefs and orientation?
There are also Tibetans who are not Buddhists, but are Muslims, Bonpos and the likes. They are allowed to attend all the Dalai Lama’s religious ceremonies and secular gatherings. Basically, all citizens of Tibet are allowed to interact with the Dalai Lama, whether on a religious and/or secular level EXCEPT Dorje Shugden practitioners. How does the Tibetan leadership address this when every other democratic country in the 21st Century will not tolerate this kind of blatant discrimination.
3. Lastly, in more recent times, the Dalai Lama has retired as the secular head of the Tibetan exiled community. In 2011, the respected Dr. Lobsang Sangye has stepped into the position as the Tibetans’ new prime minister, overseeing all secular affairs of the state.
However, Dorje Shugden devotees are still not permitted to associate with him, only because of their religious orientation. Why is this so? There is now a clear distinction between the spiritual leader (Dalai Lama) and the secular leader (Lobsang Sangye). But it seems that religious edicts have also overlapped onto the secular affairs of the Tibetan community. The spiritual dictates from the spiritual leader are also being upheld by the secular leaders of the community. Why is this so? Why have spiritual affairs become a part of the political affairs of a country; and vice versa?
So, we would like to post the following important questions, which need to be asked and addressed:
- As a religious leader, His Holiness the Dalai Lama does not allow people to come to his talks. We respect and understand that. It is his prerogative as their spiritual leader. However, on a secular level, as the leader of all six million Tibetans, why does he not allow these same Tibetans to join in his secular activities, talks, rallies and events? If not, why not? After all, His Holiness is still their leader.
- Now that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has passed his secular power to the first Prime minister of Tibetans, Dr. Lobsang Sangye, what do all the Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners do? Are they allowed to talk to and interact with their new secular leader? Or are they restricted from doing so purely because of their religious choices? What are they expected to do?
- Dr. Lobsang Sangye (Prime Minister) is a secular leader, a layman who was newly and democratically elected who is not a Spiritual Guru or Dharma teacher; only strictly a worldly leader for the benefit of all Tibetan citizens. How do Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners relate to him? How should they relate to him? How should Dr. Lobsang Sangye, as their Prime Minister, relate to them? Can they even consider him their leader although they are Tibetans who still practice Dorje Shugden? They certainly do not have any spiritual bond (samaya) with him and their religious practices would not have any bearing on their relationship with him, as it might with the Dalai Lama.
- In future, how do Dorje Shugden practitioners relate to the next prime minister after Dr. Lobsang Sangye? And the one after that? And after that? How should all these future prime ministers relate to the people?
We do not mean disrespect to His Holiness the Dalai Lama, or to Dr Lobsang Sangye, the CTA or any Tibetans. However, we need to ask these questions. They are logical and necessary at a time when the world does not operate solely by religious edicts. It is unfair, undemocratic and a travesty of human freedoms. We call for reconsideration of this ban and how it is being conducted and wish that all have the freedoms to make their own religious and worldly choices.
With respect,
Admin
(This is a letter we will be sending to all CTA depts, Prime Minister Dr Lobsang Sangye and over 2,000 Tibetan related centres. It will be sent by email and physical mailings.)
SOURCE: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12232 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12232)
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Oh i just commented on the website section but I will add my comment here as well:
This is certainly food for thought. Not being a Tibetan, I can only give an external point of view. With regard to #1, I believe that there must be a reason why HH the Dalai Lama is ostracising Dorje Shugden practitioners.
Anyone with half a brain would realise that what HH is doing is a PR nightmare – especially for someone known worldwide for proclaiming peace on earth and love to all with equanimity. Yes, love for all sentient beings must include Dorje Shugden practitioners, right? However, here he is, presenting the case that Dorje Shugden is a demon (which has been easily and logically disproved elsewhere on this website) and all Dorje Shugden practitioners should be treated as lepers.
Why the Dalai Lama would do this is the 64 million dollar question. As I find most negative reasons unpalatable, the most acceptable reason for me is that he must have a particular strategy in mind; which is in order to promote Dorje Shugden, he has to appear to be against it.
People may say why does he make so many suffer? Perhaps it is their karma to suffer.. surely nobody can create suffering for others unless they created the causes themselves? Also, there may be a number of people suffering, but the majority of people who would hear Dorje Shugden’s name or see his holy image far outweighs the number who are being ostracised so perhaps it is a numbers game. Another possibility is that the Dalai Lama is expediting the fruitioning of the negative karma of DS practitioners so that they can clear their negativities in order to continue on their spiritual journey.
As for the remaining 3 questions, well, the Dalai Lama has asked all Tibetans not to associate or share material things with Dorje Shugden practitioners, so it looks like Dorje Shugden practitioners have been completely excommunicated.
If Dorje Shugden practitioners are excommunicated, they will not be allowed to participate in any secular events because of this strange overlap of the sacred and the secular, with the Dalai Lama being such a strong influence in the Tibetan exile community, even though he has said that he is 'retired' as the secular head of the Tibetan government in exile, now known as the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA).
If the question is should they be allowed to interact with Dr. Lobsang Sangye and the CTA, the answer would of course be YES. For the first time since the Great Fifth Dalai Lama, spiritual and secular leadership of Tibetan society has separated. The Tibetan diaspora is scattered throughout the world, the culture of its lay people becoming increasingly diluted as they slowly assimilate into the different cultures of their host nations. If the CTA doesn't get their act together, there will be NO Tibetan community to administer over.
For over 50 years, the Tibetans who left their motherland have been homeless, waiting for the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan-Government-in-exile (and of course, Nechung!) to gain independence. For half a century, there has been no progress for Tibetan independence. I feel that the CTA are using Dorje Shugden as a scapegoat for their lack of progress in this direction. And Dorje Shugden is selfless enough to absorb it.
What are Dorje Shugden practitioners expected to do? Depends on from whose perspective. From the Dalai Lama’s perspective, DS practitioners should just quit DS or fade quietly into the background. From CTA’s perspective, DS practitioners are to blame for all their failures so they expect the DS practitioners to just accept the blame. From the DS practitioners’ perspective, the Kalon Tripa/CTA should treat them equally as any other Tibetan. The Kalon Tripa/CTA should represent all Tibetans equally, regardless of religious affiliation. After all, they would represent Bon practitioners, Muslims etc. so why not Dorje Shugden practitioners?
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Dalai Lama has always been seen as the “Figure Head” in both secular and the spiritual matters in Tibet. Even upon his resignation as the secular head in CTA, Tibetans are still looking over his shoulders from time to time.
It’sbsoultely human only if Dalai Lama, as seen as the head of Tibet, to allow ALL Tibetans, irrespective of gender, religion and age to come to consult him on matters relating to the welfare of the people. However, he is not allowing this, and I could only have this as my answer. He is definitely Chenrezig, for him to act in such a illogically manner, there is only one purpose. By not allowing Dorje shugden practitioners to some to him, he is continueing his propaganda to talk about the ban and hence “indirectly” promoting Dorje Shugden in his own way.
The fact that Dalai Lama has stepped down as a secular head of TGIE (now CTA) is already a sign to all the Tibetans that they should operate the government like any other countries in this 21st century. Spiritual and secular matters should not be mixed.
It is a “subtle” hint that people are free to choose their religion and that should not be mixed with the welfare of the people.It is really up to this new prime minister, Dr Lobsang Sangey to take the courage as the secular leader of the Tibetan people to implement changes.
When it comes to secular matters, ALL Tibetans, irrespective of their gender, age, and religious believes, should be free to approach the minister to discuss issues of their concerns. So Dorje Shugden practitioners, who have been discriminated and ostracized for so long should speak up.
Dr Lobsang Sangey recently had made a public speech on TV addressed to the Chinese government around the Tibetan new year in January 2012, on their brutal attack on peaceful demonstrators of Tibetans in China, and calling for International pressure against the Chinese as they have violated basic human rights issues.
If Dr Lobsang Sangey could speak with such passion for his people, then he should continue along this path to speak for Dorje Shugden practitioners in Tibet, as these are his people too. The power is in the hands of DS practitioners and Dr Lobsang Sangey, what would be a better choice for all the Tibetans when they are reunited as one? I am sure, the new PM, being a harvard law graduate knows the answer well.
I do hope new face brings new changes as we are not living in the caveman era, as leaders, I believe they DO have moral responsibility to his people. I would like to quote what US President Obama has once said ” Change we can!”
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From Facebook post on Dorje Shugden's wall by Blue Garuda: http://www.facebook.com/GyelchenDorjeShugden (http://www.facebook.com/GyelchenDorjeShugden)
Blue Garuda
The Dalai Lama is not the polititcal head of anything, much less a 'Government' now downgraded to an 'Administration'. He is in India as a refugee and any action by him which breaches India's laws (with regard to religious freedom) should result in action by that Government to stop him. In the UK we currently have Moslem preachers who incite violence against others on religious grounds. and should be repatriated to their homelands, as long as they are safe there. Thurman was right - there is a Tibetan Taliban - but it's not the Shugdenpas.
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excellent points, and such a clear and logical perspective. Very impressive. This separation between church and state has been long established by every other country in the modern world. It has become very clear in modern history that mixing the two doesn't not make a progressive, stable, fair, democratic nation. The Tibetan exiled community would be no exception, especially as they're living within one of the largest democracies in the world - India. Almost ironic enough to make me smile.
I think this is the most pressing point: that secular affairs have intruded into the most basic human freedoms and rights, so that Tibetans dorje shugden practitioners are not granted even the most basic things like medical aid, education, jobs, or even friends. Where else in the world are people not allowed to befriend each other based purely on their religious choices. In this case, what role does the prime minister (now, Dr Lobsang Sangye) have in this community? In this case, can there / should there be two prime ministers? Should Tibetan Dorje Shugden devotees create their own exile community under their own leadership with their own constitution?
Why is it that Tibetan Dorje Shugden devotees have to abide by some rules of the Tibetan exiled government constitution but don't get the corresponding rights? So part of their citizenship applies and part of it doesn't? How can this be fair?
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Religious and secular matters do not mix in true democracy. In short what is rightfully Tibetan in secular rights does not apply whether they are DS practitioners or not. Why call it democratic when it is not? Democracy should be applied all the way without discrimination on whichever religion or faith. The purpose of a democratic government is to practise the spirit of social equality.
The prime minister , Dr Lobsang Sangye, who forms the government in which the sovereign power resides in the people of Tibet and is exercised by Tibetans who elect him to represent them. What else are all Tibetans expected to do whether they are DS practioners or non-DS practioners is extremely obvious and clear.
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I wonder how some Buddhist could give lame remarks like them be and settle their own issues if there is any. Gosh you have got to blind or deaf if u cannot see the huge discrimination of this century! It
is like a country is being hit by tsunami or earthquake and u say let them settle their own issues.
These are real good questions that requires real answers. The Tibetans suffering due to religious discrimination is real. The holy sangha, senior sangha and younger sanghas suffering are real. And all just because they have a different practice.
So now with a newly appointed 1st time ever in the Tibetan history, the Tibetans have a new Prime Minister or is it only for Tibetans who follow HHDL and who don’t practise Dorje Shugden??? So where does the Tibetans who practise Dorje Shugden go to for answers and secular affairs, welfare and support??? Are they not considered Tibetans just cause the have a different practice? That is so weird, does not make any sense and totally unacceptable in a democratic nation. No way will we see this in any democratic nation today.
CTA, Dr Lobsang talk about unity, harmony and freedom for Tibetans… but there is simply none for Tibetans’ “Dorje Shugden” practitioners. Hence where is the democracy in this? Hence they should not be any cry for a Free Tibet because it simply is not free from within. And is the nations’ Prime Minister Dr. Lobsang Sangye just a puppet for the CTA, just an act, a mask to hide away the real issues Tibetan in exile are facing?
What good is a Prime Minister if he cannot protect his own people without bias? What’s the point of having a PM then, makes no difference.
However we justify and look at it, in all sense in makes no sense and why should the world put up with such hypocritical act?
Sad that Tibetans escape from Tibet to be imprisoned by their own Tibetan community. They make themselves a laughing stock esp to the PRC.
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The situation prior to HHDL’s resignation as the secular leader of the Tibetan people and the current situation after HHDL’s resignation as the secular leader among to the same. No changes. In both situations Tibetan people who practice Dorje Shugden are basically treated as persona non grata. The is a censure of the more severe kind. Sort of a Tibetan “Cultural Revolution”.
Because I respect the HHDL a lot, I will think of logical reasons why this is happening.
Q1: We have to go all the way back to basic problem that is facing the Tibetan people and that is of Tibet itself. The problem that is rooted in the China/Tibet issue is secular and not spiritual while the HHDL is still alive. Any public events whether it is of spiritual or secular is public and is more secular in nature as it can be viewed by the world at large. So the HHDL is very cautious that he strongly implement the ban publicly. In my opionin, the ban itself is more secular than spiritual ie for others to see.
Q2: Yes, strictly speaking since the HHDL passed the secular leadership to the new PM, ANY Tibetan regardless of belief should have equal rights and access to the PM. I urge all DS practitioner to regard this as an olive branch and take up their right of access to the PM in all ways despite any obstacles. It may take time for over enthusiastic members of the CTA to mellow down. Just attend any events by the PM without fuss. Even show support. That would be nice.
Q3: A famous person in China who practice Tibetan Buddhism once said that the HHDL is the spiritual leader. Obviously, in this case, his secular leaders would be the Chinese leaders. Similarly, whoever the Tibetan regard as their spiritual leader; they should regard the PM as their secular leader and the PM should regard all Tibetan as his people. DS practitioner should just regard the PM as their secular leader and vice versa from the PM. Again without fuss. I see this as a possible step for the ban to be lifted. Perhaps, first for secular matters and finally for the spiritual ban itself.
Q4: The same as Q3. Regard all future secular leaders as their leader. Exercise your right as Tibetan. May not be easy but keep going at it positively like Gandhi. After all, Buddhist are suppose to be peaceful. Show the world how good DS practitioners are and we will win.
Regards!
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A holy being like HHDL will manifest compassion in the best ways to get the most benefits out of it. As lay people, we are confused by his actions. To quote from Poonlarp: “This is so confusing as the country which promotes world peace doesn’t have peace within their people. How could a person who promotes compassion and love to the world don’t have compassion and love towards his own people? How could this be?” Yes, why is HHDL discouraging DS practice and why DS practitioners are not allowed to attend his teachings or any religious ceremonies? On secular affairs, isn’t he unfair and bias as not to allow people from coming to see him as their political, secular leader? The logical reason I can think of is there is a bigger picture behind this. Needless to say, indirectly HHDL has already created so much awareness by the ban. Or it could be that it is the karma of DS practitioners to suffer now so that they can purify their negative karma faster and propel them to higher teachings when the ban is lifted.
Dr. Lobsang Sangye, as a secular leader, should only be responsible for the welfare of the Tibetans and not get involved in religious affairs. He is not a spiritual leader like HHDL. Now that HHDL has stepped down as secular head, this is the right time and opportunity for Dr. Lobsang Sangye to prove that his interest lies in the welfare of his people whether they are anti or pro DS. DS practitioners should have equal rights as non DS practitioners as they are still Tibetans. As the Prime Minster, he should unite them and take care of them as they are the citizens of Tibet.
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Dear Mana,
Thank you for bringing to light these issues. My answers to your questions are as follow:
1. -“ As a religious leader, His Holiness the Dalai Lama does not allow people to come to his talks. We respect and understand that. It is his prerogative as their spiritual leader. However, on a secular level, as the leader of all six million Tibetans, why does he not allow these same Tibetans to join in his secular activities, talks, rallies and events? If not, why not? After all, His Holiness is still their leader.”
I believe the Dalai Lama is trying to be consistent with his stand of banning the practice of Dorje Shugden. Why allow the people who shorten his life by doing the practice get close to him?
2. - "Now that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has passed his secular power to the first Prime minister of Tibetans, Dr. Lobsang Sangye, what do all the Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners do? Are they allowed to talk to and interact with their new secular leader? Or are they restricted from doing so purely because of their religious choices? What are they expected to do?"
I think the reason for HH to ban Tibetans from associating with the Prime Minister is also out of consistency. Another reason I suspect is to force the Tibetans to wean themselves away from the Tibetan Government. When HHDL passes on one day, the Tibetan Government will fall apart. So HH is preparing the Tibetans to assimilate with the country of their residence.
3. - "Dr. Lobsang Sangye (Prime Minister) is a secular leader, a layman who was newly and democratically elected who is not a Spiritual Guru or Dharma teacher; only strictly a worldly leader for the benefit of all Tibetan citizens. How do Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners relate to him? How should they relate to him? How should Dr. Lobsang Sangye, as their Prime Minister, relate to them? Can they even consider him their leader although they are Tibetans who still practice Dorje Shugden? They certainly do not have any spiritual bond (samaya) with him and their religious practices would not have any bearing on their relationship with him, as it might with the Dalai Lama."
The point is having a relationship with the Tibetan Government does not have much benefits. Tibet is lost to the Chinese. Sorry to say, the Tibetans are better off supporting the Government of the country they are residing in because they HAVE a country and they have benefits for their citizens and residence. The Tibetan Government not only loss their country, they are not providing much security to the Tibetans but more hardship. So what’s the loss?
Of course Tibetans should be patriotic of their culture and land but the people who manage their so called Government in Exile is really not worth maintaining a relationship with.
4. - "In future, how do Dorje Shugden practitioners relate to the next prime minister after Dr. Lobsang Sangye? And the one after that? And after that? How should all these future prime ministers relate to the people?"
I don’t think there will be many more Prime Ministers in the future after HH the Dalai Lama is gone. It's time to be loyal to the country who generously accepts the Tibetans into their country.
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Much as I do respect and like (very much) this article and perspective, I think the point is not to literally answer the four questions. The point is that these rhetorical questions CANNOT BE ANSWERED by their nature of being so contradictory and almost ironic.
this is the point, I think: the way that the Tibetan government have operated have led to such restrictive and backward ways of handling their own people, that a modern spiritual edict becomes so much a part of secular living. The way the ban itself was handled is incredibly muddled, overlapping between both spiritual and secular spheres. Boundaries have disappeared and one's religious choice necessarily implicates their social, civil standing within their community. One's spiritual choices can mean complete exclusion from any basic necessities right down to food and medical aid. how is this fair? You can't answer that question because blatantly, it ISN'T fair.
Hundreds of many other questions come up as to this dichotomy, contradiction and inconsistency in policy. You can't answer those questions and I dare say that the Tibetan government who are upholding this ridiculous religious ban (of which they actually have no control over since they are not the spiritual leaders of the people!) also can't.
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Dr. Lobsang Sangye (Prime Minister) is a secular leader, a layman who was newly and democratically elected who is not a Spiritual Guru or Dharma teacher; only strictly a worldly leader for the benefit of all Tibetan citizens. How do Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners relate to him? How should they relate to him? How should Dr. Lobsang Sangye, as their Prime Minister, relate to them? Can they even consider him their leader although they are Tibetans who still practice Dorje Shugden? They certainly do not have any spiritual bond (samaya) with him and their religious practices would not have any bearing on their relationship with him, as it might with the Dalai Lama.
An small extension to this point:
As secular leaders of the people, why is it that they are upholding a religious / spiritual ban? Fine, if Dalai Lama wants to impose a ban then, that's his prerogative as their spiritual head. This is already clear. But why isn't it the people of his monastery or his religious assistants and students who are overseeing the implementation of the ban? Why is it his secular government that is doing this? Why is is that the Dalai Lama issues a religious order but the secular leaders of the community that issues and maintains the enforcement of the ban and metes out the "punishments" for those who don't follow the religious instructions?
doesn't it sound like there's something very wrong in that?
64 million dollar prizes to anyone who can answer these questions in a logical, reasonable way.
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It saddens to see His Holiness the Dalai Lama (HHDL), a Nobel Prize Winner for World Peace, a world famous Buddhist spiritual leader who is believed to be the emanation of Buddha of Compassion – Chenrezig, who propagates the teachings of compassion around the World; could institute a ban on Dorje Shugden practitioners.
As a result of this ban, Tibetans who are Dorje Shugden practitioners suffered tremendously and lost completely their basic human rights as Tibetans. There is no freedom of religion. There is no privilege as a citizen of the Tibetan in exile community.
Till this day, HHDL still maintain the ban. Despite HHDL’s retirement from the secular politics, his successor - Dr Lobsang Sangye still pursue this ban diligently!
This blatant discrimination is simply against the very constitution of the Tibetans in Exile. This constitution (refer to http://tibet.net/about-cta/constitution/ (http://tibet.net/about-cta/constitution/)) is based on the spirit of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Charter guarantees to all Tibetans equality before the law and enjoyment of rights and freedom without discrimination on the basis of sex, religion, race, language and social origin.
HHDL, Dr Lobsang & Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) must come forward with the answers to these four questions. Justice must be brought to the Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners. The ban must be lifted immediately. Otherwise HHDL, Dr Lobsang & CTA are violating the Constitution of the Tibetan Community!
Shouldn’t Dr Lobsang serve and protect the very people who had elected him into office?
Shouldn’t HHDL display the compassion, love and care that is expected of a Buddhist and more so as an emanation of Buddha of Compassion towards the Dorje Shugden practitioners?
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The ban by the Dalai Lama has created a split in the Tibetan Community and has created a lot of grief to DS practitioners because they could not exercise their freedom of rights. This has been unfair to these practitioners. The Dalai Lama has mixed politics with religion and created a fold of people who has no leader because the Dalai Lama does not recognise them.
The Dalai Lama being the Leader of Tibet should take care of the welfare of his people rather than creating disharmony. As it is, they do not have their country anymore, and now they cant interact with their peers because of difference in religious beliefs?
Now that the Dalai Lama has retired from politics, shouldn’t the DS practitioners be allowed back into the community? They should have all the rights back cos they are citizens of Tibet. They should not be discriminated solely because of their religious belief. The New Prime Minister should lead the people and allow them back into the community. Or is he still being controlled by the Dalai Lama?
This does not happen in other countries and it should not happen in Tibet also!In the future, Tibet should practice democracy for all people without discriminating it’s people on religious beliefs.
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The ban by the Dalai Lama has created a split in the Tibetan Community and has created a lot of grief to DS practitioners because they could not exercise their freedom of rights. This has been unfair to these practitioners. The Dalai Lama has mixed politics with religion and created a fold of people who has no leader because the Dalai Lama does not recognise them.
The Dalai Lama being the Leader of Tibet should take care of the welfare of his people rather than creating disharmony. As it is, they do not have their country anymore, and now they cant interact with their peers because of difference in religious beliefs?
Now that the Dalai Lama has retired from politics, shouldn’t the DS practitioners be allowed back into the community? They should have all the rights back cos they are citizens of Tibet. They should not be discriminated solely because of their religious belief. The New Prime Minister should lead the people and allow them back into the community. Or is he still being controlled by the Dalai Lama?
This does not happen in other countries and it should not happen in Tibet also!In the future, Tibet should practice democracy for all people without discriminating it’s people on religious beliefs.
Unity and harmony will be achieved if Tibetans follow HHDL completely. HHDL is their only hope. To contradict HHDL is to threaten your own future well being as HHDL's policies are to protect you. If you do not wish to be protected, then you are on your own. When problems come to you, then don't blame HHDL or his policies. Tibet has the great fortune to be lead by a pure Buddhist monk of the highest calibre. Who operates purely from spiritual principles.
Dalai Lama: Inner Peace, Happiness, God and Money (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QvVaZfFDKw#)
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Dalai Lama always says he is a simple Buddhist monk, he promotes very strongly on respect, harmony and peace. But ironically, while he was ‘ruling’ Tibet, he issued a ban on Dorje Shugden practice that has caused disharmony and separation among the Tibetan community. What he was doing seem to be in conflict with what he was saying. He is believed to be Chenrezig, the Buddha of Compassion, how can a Buddha of Compassion be harming people? I personally think he is a Buddha. Thus, he must have his reasons to issue the ban. And one thing for sure, because of his ban on Dorje Shugden practice, news on Dorje Shugden were all over the media in Western worlds, including 2 of the very influential countries, United States and Germany. As a result, Tibetan Buddhism is known all over the world. Could it be his skillful way of spreading the Dharma and to put an imprint onto people? Those people who are killed or suffered in this whole Dorje Shugden episode must have been due to their Karmas or they might have made some very strong prayers in their past lives to protect and spread Dharma even if it means sacrificing their lives.
As for the current political situation, since the new leader is not a religious figure anymore, he should run the administration office the secular way. If Tibetan demands independence and democracy, the new political leader should treat Dorje Shugden equally as the rest of the Tibetan. If they want other countries to support their ‘free tibet’ campaign, shouldn’t the Central Tibetan Administration free the Shugden practitioner first? While they are claiming Chinese Government does not respect their human right, they themselves are not respecting the human right of the Shugden practitioners either. If democracy is what CTA is asking for, then lift the ban first.
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I sometimes think people judge His Holiness a little harshly. For gods sake, the man lost his country. On top of that, he has done so much else for people all over the world but hes judged on this one so-called error? I say so-called because actions are judged by their results arent they? What we can see at the moment is the short term result but what about ultimately? Can we judge that? Anyway TBH when I hear what his schedule is like, Jesus...he HAS to be Chenrezig because unless you have so much compassion, how can you work so tirelessly for people day in and day out, for so many decades?
I just hope Dr Lobsang Sangay has the same tenacity as His Holiness the Dalai Lama. This post points out some interesting loopholes about the Tibetan way of thinking. Yes, as Dorje Shugden practitioners perhaps we shouldnt attend the Dalai Lamas teachings or speak to him because of supposedly broken samaya (even though, realistically speaking, my samaya is with my teacher and not with him). But what about Lobsang Sangay? I havent got any samaya with him, nor have millions of Tibetans. If living standards dont improve under Lobsang Sangay then you know what the CTAs real motivations are...and it isnt to help their people!
What I find slightly amusing is how damn backwards Tibetan society is. Tibetans create pariahs for no reason other than what they believe in... then you have countries like India who are actually working towards abolishing such ostracism in their societies (EG/ trying to educate people on how the untouchables arent really untouchables). You have people like Mother Teresa teaching her followers how to love the unloved. Tibetans need to buck up and realise how theyre moving backwards compared to everyone else because entangled theyve become in their own web of self-deception and ignorance.
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I cannot find a good reason why HH the Dalai Lama forbids Dorje Shugden’s practitioners to attend his talks when Tibetans of other religious faiths are allowed. This disparity is a stark truth that HH is unfair and prejudiced to Dorje Shugden practitioners, be they lay practitioners or sangha members.
Yes, HH is the spiritual leader of the Tibetans and may have his reasons in doing so but in enforcing the ban, the CTA has stepped up gear to enforce the ban aggressively. Along the way many innocent Dorje Shugden’s practitioners suffer. Down with CTA! No wonder they lost their country. Shameful.
Since Dr. Lobsang Sangye is the PM elect of Tibetans and has the say over secular matters, he should allow Tibetans who practice Dorje Shugden to meet him/talk to him on secular matters.
In my opinion, Dr. Lobsang Sangye should lead ALL Tibetans regardless of their religious practices for all secular affairs and leave the religious matters to others. If he does that, Tibetans would recognize him as a true leader and not a puppet.
If Dr. Lobsang Sangye, being the current PM elect, would do the correct thing, as mentioned above, his successors would follow their predecessor.
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These very questions have been the very core reason why this website was born and why this forum has so many active members participating and many more members that are silently reading these posts in search of news and solace. I think the only reason why many of us have not lost faith in the Dalai Lama completely is because of the wise and prophetic words of the late Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche in personal advice and in his written works such as this:-
"But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors, 1967
I think his advice is pretty clear and is somewhat difficult for us to fathom its depths right now but it brings a new perspective that what the Dalai Lama is doing is perhaps for a greater purpose. We have to realize that the Dalai Lama had renounced secular power in favor of a democratic elections, which places the power of the government into the people's hands. This is not an easy transition from absolute rule of a theocratic leader to a democracy but it is happening already. The first ever elected secular prime minister (Kalon Tripa) was elected, Dr Lobsang Sangye. This has far-reaching consequences if the Tibetan leaders take matters into their own hands.
Hence, it is the Kalon Tripa's prerogative along with his elected ministers or Kalons as the Tibetans calls them, to ensure that the constitution separates secular and religious policies. The state should only endorse and enforce secular authority and nothing else. Like I mentioned in other posts, religious policies, particularly those the segregate and separate segments of society like the Dorje Shugden ban should be discarded as soon as possible.
At the very least, religious edicts like the ban on Dorje Shugden should be left to monastic leaders of individual great monasteries. Their jurisdiction only applies to those within the walls of the monastery. Therefore, the appearance of a weak and fragmented Tibetan society due to this ban is detrimental to the Tibetan cause. When there's no unity, how can the Tibetans reclaim Tibet proper and call for independence?
So, what do you expect the thousands of Dorje Shugden worshippers to do? Due to the segregation and inevitable abuse they received, many have fled Tibetan circles and prefer to reside within the safety and confines of Indian society or those with financial capability, they will flee overseas. This will erode Tibetan society and it will mean that many more within Tibetan settlements will do the same. Does the Central Tibetan Administration want to see that happen? Do these Tibetan leaders want to see the last remnants of the proud Tibetan nation collapse and get watered down in foreign lands due to this ban? That is the more important question I feel.
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Dear Admin of dorjeshugden.com,
This letter that you have written gives a very detailed and clear summary on the situation Shugden practitioners are going through in India. Instead of having demostrations and protests which serves to bring the bad situation worse, hopefully it will affect the decisions of policy makers now that HHDL is no longer the leader of all secular affairs of the Tibetans. Please send it to more leaders and people all over the world. May the Shugden practitioners be able to continue with their practice and still be able to live in their community without being ostracised soon.
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When you talk about religious persecutions, countries like Rwanda and Eritrea come to mind, NOT Tibet, a country that is most associated with the preservation and practice of the Buddha’s teachings which advocates tolerance and avoidance of harm to others.
And when you talk about people involved in religious persecutions, the last person you would imagine to have instigated such acts would be the winner of a Peace Price and an emanation of a Buddha of Compassion, the Dalai Lama himself, against his won people.
Yet, persecutions and denial of basic rights based on a religious belief is what Dorje Shugden practitioners have been experiencing, and not by any foreign power but by a leader and a government that they had hoped would protect them.
The CTA often criticizes the Beijing Administration and calls for more religious and cultural freedom but by comparison, the Chinese Government have provided for more freedom in religious expressions than HHDL and the CTA have.
From the perspective of being able to continue in their religious belief, Dorje Shugden practitioners seem to be better off with the Chinese Administration than they are with the CTA.
In my opinion, when HHDL resigned and relinquished his secular powers, he provided Dr Lobsang Sangye with a golden opportunity to establish political credibility with the international community from whom he had sought support for the return of the country to Tibetan rule. It was an opportunity that Dr. Lobsang Sangye did not seize and by this failure he and the CTA:
(i) demonstrated conclusively that the CTA does not have the political wherewithal to unite the Tibetan people who have been divided by the Shugden ban imposed undemocratically and unilaterally by 1 person;
(ii) will continue to participate in persecutions based on religious beliefs;
(iii) cannot protect the rights and freedom of its own people;
(iv) and therefore is unfit to govern now.
This begs some relevant questions e.g. what kind of precedent has ben set and is the CTA under the leadership of HHDL obsolete in so far as being the guardian of the interests of all Tibetans?
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Just posted this on the article section of this question, but i think the same applies. Please read:
The Dalai Lama has his own plan, and his own tactic of bringing dharma to the world. It has worked for a very long time, so who are we to say that what he is doing is wrong. Yes we may perceive it as wrong because we don’t fully understand what he is trying to accomplish with the Dorje Shugden Ban. He may create suffering for some, unfairness for others, it may seem as if he is making the wrong decisions. But lets ask ourselves for a moment is he? Hasn’t Dorje Shugden practice grown tremendously since the introduction of the ban. Is the Dalai Lama really harming people by not letting him attend his talks, or is he really giving them a blessing in disguise? Maybe by Dorje Shugden practitioners not being able to attend the Dalai Lama’s talks or being suppressed it is actually benefitting them and strengthening their religious practice. The fact of the matter is we do not know, we do not know enough to understand. What we can do is speculate and guess, but more often than not the Dalai Lama, will not make it his aim to bring more harm, but to bring benefit to people. Thus sometimes we must think that whatever the Dalai Lama is doing will bring benefit, maybe it is not apparent in the short term, but we don’t know what the long term holds. We must remain faithful, we cannot be against the Dalai Lama, who are we to question an enlightened being?
Regarding the new leader of Tibet, what is there to say? The Dalai Lama has chosen for it to be this way. The Tibetan people can choose to follow, they can also choose to not follow. The Dalai Lama is making things difficult for Tibetans, and all buddhist practitioners of Dorje Shugden. Isn’t this a great teaching of impermanence. If all is good, and everything is okay all the time, it is easy to practice. Maybe this is a true test of our faith to the Dalai Lama, to Dorje Shugden. These difficult times could really separate the real practitioners from the ones that are just there for the good times. We should try to take away a teaching from every action the Dalai Lama makes, as after all, whatever he is doing, is only to bring us closer to enlightenment.
These are just ramblings of a one mere insignificant practitioner, but please read, and please think. Sometimes we should not look at what is happening now, how it is affecting us, but at the bigger picture.
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This is excellent, thanks Mr G:
If all is good, and everything is okay all the time, it is easy to practice. Maybe this is a true test of our faith to the Dalai Lama, to Dorje Shugden. These difficult times could really separate the real practitioners from the ones that are just there for the good times.
Sure enough, I think so much of the ban has highlighted not the ban itself but how people have acted and reacted from the ban. This applies to both side - the Dalai Lama supporters who act in very unkind ways to put down dorje shugden practitioners and cause them even more grief and the Dorje Shugden devotees who have launched hate campaigns against the Dalai Lama. Either way, it has involved disparaging either a high lama or a Buddha. Even sadder, it brings unhappiness, uncertainty, doubt and sadness to fellow Sangha and Dharma practitioners around the world - for once we speak badly either the Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden, we inevitably hurt their devotees too.
Trijang Rinpoche had predicted very clearly just before he passed away that there would come a time when it may appear that there is conflict between Dorje Shugden and Dalai Lama; and that it would be more important than ever to not take sides at the time and to remain patient.
Like you've said Jeremy, this conflict shows very clearly who's really practicing or not in these difficult times. Sorts the men from the boys, I say!
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Dear Admin of dorjeshugden.com,
This letter that you have written gives a very detailed and clear summary on the situation Shugden practitioners are going through in India. Instead of having demostrations and protests which serves to bring the bad situation worse, hopefully it will affect the decisions of policy makers now that HHDL is no longer the leader of all secular affairs of the Tibetans. Please send it to more leaders and people all over the world. May the Shugden practitioners be able to continue with their practice and still be able to live in their community without being ostracised soon.
Dear Admin,
I like the point you have made about the Dalai Lama being both the secular and spiritual leader of Tibet. And how the secular affairs of Tibet have been muddied by the waters of spirituality through the ban.
This is akin to President Obama not allowing Buddhist or Moslems to attend his election speeches or David Cameron not allowing Hindus kids into government schools. Or as simple as going down the corner shop to get the newspaper and the shopkeeper refuses to serve you just because of your religion. World War II anyone? Holocaust?
Imagine the uproar should this example with Obama or Cameron come to pass, should the White House, or 10 Downing Street or the Cabinet making such proclamations. There would be rioting in the streets! Utter chaos and I am not trying to be dramatic. It just really goes against the grain of modern government, equality for all, freedom of choice and so on.
Another example and parallel to modern society:
The letter talks about how Shugdenites should relate to Lobsang Sangay and whether Dalai Lama's policies will be upheld by the new leader of the CTA. Lobsang Sangay is sticking to the plan for now, and not even a hint of opposing the ban on Shugden. Why not? Is he afraid of the public reaction, who have been brainwashed by Dalai Lama and the previous CTA against Shugden? Is he afraid of Dalai Lama himself? Or does he truly believe that the Dalai Lama's life is in danger? But surely, with a new leader, Dorje Shugden will be going after Lobsang Sangay instead of the Dalai Lama? Surely the new leader of the CTA would be the obvious target for a demon, rather than the previous leader? Why is Dorje Shugden against Tibet or the CTA or the Dalai Lama in the first place?
We do not expect new political parties or new leaders to uphold the policies of the previous ruling party or previous leader. Each to their own. So why isnt that the case in Tibet? Are they afraid of the public backlash? Of proving Dalai Lama wrong?
Perhaps Lobsang Sangay is just waiting for the right time to drop the ban on Shugden just because IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE.
I hope so.
And I sure hope that the CTA is reading this thread. Take a good read and realise by logic and debate, the pillars of Buddhism (at least Gelugpa) that this ban is illogical. Then do something about it.
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Tibetans never knew about democracy nor human rights nor freedom of speech nor religious freedom, except for spiritual freedom. This spiritual freedom is very dear to all Tibetans (being mostly Buddhists) as it is in their mind stream to achieve. With the BAN on the worship of the protector, Dorje Shugden, whom they have known for 350 years is unthinkable and to be punished for it is utterly inhuman. Many Tibetans inherited this practice from their Root Gurus, and in the Vajrayana practice, obeying your Guru is of utmost importance. So the dilemma now occurs.
My comment above is based on the fact that the Dalai Lama had always been Tibet’s spiritual and secular head of state and there had never been any election until recently. Another fact is that there was no controversy nor disagreement as all Tibetans lived in sync with an isolated and protected society, practising a harmonious religion.
Personally I have very high respect and gratitude for HH Dalai Lama, for if not for HH having left Tibet and suffered so much, we would never have had the chance of studying and learning Tibetan Buddhism. Whatever negative feelings and opinions I may have over the BAN, within the depth of my heart I know it is for a bigger picture.
No one with study and knowledge can refute the fact that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha of great compassion and is not a demon as proclaimed by HH. Dorje Shugden has a recorded and traceable history.
Question (1)
By not permitting Dorje Shugden worshippers to attend both spiritual and secular talks and gatherings by HH is like making matters worse,(especially the secular ones) so that non spiritual groups will take notice and create more objections to the BAN.
Human rights groups can also take this up as an issue.
Questions (2) to (3)
Now that HH has given up his secular powers to a non Spiritual and non Dharma Teacher successor, Dr. Lobsang Sangye, all Tibetans have the right to approach Dr. Lobsang Sangye for their privileges as citizens and it is the duty of an elected officer of state to look after all Tibetans and be given access to school, medical attention etc. etc.
Now is also the time for all other groups of “human rights” organization to make appeals to Dr. Lobsang Sangye to stop refraining Tibetans of their civil rights.
At this point, I may also add that civil rights when granted would also encompass human rights of freedom of religious beliefs.
As a practitioner, I pray and wish that such groups will arise and lift the BAN.
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That is the reason why TIBETANS LOST THEIR COUNTRY. And now they (TGIE) have been demoted to being an administration (CTA) …..HELLO??? Don’t they see that they are losing the grip and control over Tibetans. And it will be worst if they don’t wake up. Not many respect them at this moment. HH is being used as a political tool by the Indian government. If you ask around outside their small Tibetan community, nobody know who this Lobsang Sangye is? and etc. What has he done since he step into the office?
CTA can escape with this type of dictatorship is because HH is still around. Many Tibetan respect HH still but once HH is not around anymore….who do they have? Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, Panchen Lama, Trijang Rinpoche, WHO? Who will be their asset this time round?
I have heard and seen how Shugden practitioners are being treated by their OWN government, it really disgust me. Now the situation has been better as more Shugden practitioners are coming out and there are more around. But previously, it was so ridiculously unfair and if this happened in other countries, either they would have been overthrown, assassinated or they would be brought to the international amnesty court. No country or human right organisation will take this.
I will not comment much about HH as I still respect him very much and I do believe that HH has a BIGGER picture with his action. BUT I cannot bring myself to respect CTA as I strongly believe they are not there to benefit the Tibetans but themselves. Very sad.
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We have seen the transfer of political powers by the Dalai Lama to Dr. Lobsang Sangye but certainly have not seen it taking effect on the people of Tibet. Though the Dalai Lama has resigned from his political powers, but his spiritual position over the people takes precedence still. So what’s the big deal for Dalai Lama to resign politically when he knows that he can still use his spiritual authorities over the people and even affect political decisions.
Yes, politically Dr Lobsang Sangye only has jurisdiction over 1/3 of Tibetans. The other 2/3 which is 4 million are Dorje Shugden practitioners. These Dorje Shugden practitioners have been labeled as pariah of the country and are not entitled to benefits of any sort from CTA. How will Dr Lobsang Sangye protect these Tibetans? If you are a leader, would you appreciate anyone splitting your people when the power has been given to you to lead? Why would Dalai Lama, a Spiritual Leader deprive his people of even the most basic benefits such as education, social welfare, medical aid etc.. just because they are Dorje Shugden practitioners? Seriously, what’s the point of putting Dr Lobsang Sangye in power when his hands are pretty much tied up?
Dr. Lobsang Sangye is a well-educated scholar, a graduate from the elite school of Harvard. I would like to think a man who has been exposed to human rights in the West would have little to zero tolerance for inequality and persecutions of any sort.I would like to think that if this ban was not put in place to start with, Dr. Lobsang Sangye would never have created it himself! Wouldn’t any modern, 21st century leader want to be known for promoting what is popular… which are human rights, equality, great benefits for the citizens etc?
From a secular side, Dr. Lobsang Sangye certainly is equipped to run the country. But will he be “allowed” by the Dalai Lama to do his job? Should Tibetans answer to Dalai Lama or their new political leader?
I think the success and the future of Tibetans now lies in the hands of Tibetans themselves. Tibetans have voted for their leader. Why not let him do his job. It is time for Tibetans to do their own research to dispel any myths where this ban draw powers from. This ban has no valid basis and must be lifted.
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As a citizen, it is something very sad as because they have live in their country for so many years, they are suppose to have every right to enjoy the whatever facilities that the country provided, but because of choosing a religion that they believe in, they immediately been withdrawn from the right as a citizen, where is the religion freedom?
1. As a spirituality country, the citizen should have all the freedom to practice what they believe in or like.
2. But in secular, where it does not focus in spirituality, then whatever religion / deity the citizen practice, seems like it should not matter.
So if either one of this option comply, discrimination should not happen here.
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Question #3 has really made me think. I doubt Dorje Shugden practitioners were allowed to vote since they don't even get basic rights to things like medication. So does that make Dr. Lobsang Sangye's election into office REALLY democratic? I have nothing against him but if not everyone in the population was allowed to vote, then is he REALLY the people's choice? How is it Dorje Shugden practitioners automatically forfeited their right to vote when they decided to stick with the practices their teachers gave them? What democratic nation implements that kind of ruling? So many strange things to think about.
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This make me think about whats Dalai lama’s intention to proclaim a ban on practicing dorje shugden and not allow these same Tibetans to join in his secular activities, talks ect….it will only makes those practitioner have less faith on him as a emanation of Chenrezig. These millions of tibetans been practicing dorje shugden for years and they are not allowed to attend Dalai lama’s talks? i don’t think he will get support from most of the tibetans as a spiritual leader ~no doubt that he is a emanation of chenrezig but the action of his was unreasonable ,would it be that Dalai lama wants dorje shugden supporter to grow more ? is it the other method to promote dorje shugden ? even though he has passed his secular power to the first Prime minister of Tibetans, Dr. Lobsang Sangye, Dorje Shugden practitioners still not allowed to talk to and interact with their new secular leader.If CTA doesn’t accept/allow tibetans to practice dorje shugden ,tibet will fall apart as most of the tibetans are practicing dorje shugden .IF the four question are for Dalai Lama , Dr Lobsang Sangye, the CTA, theres no way that they can answer all the four question above . i am really sad to see tibetans does not have the freedoms to make their own religious and worldly choices.If theres more suppression on dorje shugden practice in tibet , dorje shugden will arise in other place such as china,europe , ect …
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Why do the Tibetans complain and cry on the suppression of their religious freedom, but inflict the same kind of suppression to their own people? It does not make sense at all. If the law of karma is the cause resembles the result, isnt what CTA is doing creating the direct causes for China to tighten its grip more on Tibetans and oppress those who do not tow in line with the Chinese government's wishes. Why cant the Tibetans see this even though they know the law of karma, they have the Dharma, they should know what is right and what is wrong. How can hurting and ostracizing others be right in any way, no matter what the situation, and destroying the homes of others?
Lobsang Sangay is a great disappointment, he let his Oxford graduation go to waste. He did nothing to reform the government to be more efficient to take care of the people and remove rulings that hurt the Tibetan citizens such as the ban. I hope that the CTA does not have the same punishments as they did before China invaded...were eyes were gouged of people who oppose...is that what they want?
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I made the following comment on the homepage. I would like to share it here on the forum too:
It is indeed an ongoing discussion and speculation as to WHY. Why indeed for the ban? Why is HHDL doing what he is doing? If we knew the answers, we would ourselves be enlightened, wont we?
However we can voice our opinions and discuss openly in the hopes we find some answers between ourselves that may give us that inner peace within our tormented minds and bleeding hearts.
My answers to the following questions are as such:
Question 1
On a rudimentary it is true that HHDL is the spiritual leader of the Tibetans and yes I suppose it is HHDL’s prerogative as to who attends or who does not attend his talks/teachings. IT IS entirely up to HH. I tend to agree with Yongten Jamyang on the reasoning behind WHY. This whole fiasco (the ban) has no basis to the point of being ridiculous (no disrespect to HHDL) but why does HHDL still do it? Perhaps there is a bigger picture behind the pure motivation.
Let us think for a moment how it would be like WITHOUT a ban?
Would the spread of Dorje Shugden be as far reaching and as news worthy?
Perhaps “using” HHDL public teachings as a platform for “promoting” the ban would undoubtedly bring it to the world stage? A lot of ifs and whys but look at the results it has created. Sure there is “negative” too but in the long run how many more people are actually benefiting? Perhaps that is what we should ask ourselves… but that does not mean we remain silent to the sufferings of those caused by the ban. Perhaps this is one of the greatest teachings of HHDL, how we show compassion in times of greatest need. Helping in a Buddhist way, a peaceful way by slicing through ignorance with the sword of wisdom!
Question 2 – 4
As they are somewhat related I shall answer this as a collective hypothesis. Perhaps HHDL stepping down from secular “power” so to speak is a clear indication to all that some reform is needed. The arguments presented are very clear. Secular and Spiritual SHOULD be separate and if both are intertwined it is a recipe for disaster (unless you are HHDL working out of a compassionate motivation nothing else of course…)!
In recent talks/teachings HHDL has even mentioned that the choice is actually left to those who want to practice of not. AM not quoting verbatim but it was clearly stated as, “you either choose me or you choose a worldly God”. Even HHDL stance has “mellowed” down somewhat. Perhaps giving CTA a chance to actually take the example and do as all Democratic governments do… give people the choice! However, this can only happen if the pressure is put on them from all sides. Make their ears itch from so much “talk” that they inevitably have to “succumb” to what the people want. The can try to suppress a few million Tibetans but try to ignore hundreds of millions of eyes outside their little power struggle to hold on to what they have (which by the way is nothing, they DO NOT have a country but only people to govern… unfortunately)
In light of what is happening around the world and the push for change, the push for equality, the push for freedom of expression which has been pervading in human society for centuries… perhaps we will all look back at this a yet another stepping stone for the betterment of mankind and spirituality in the long run. Hail the age of the Buddhist Renaissance!
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CTA act as central tibetan administation, duty is suppose to protect and help tibetan communities to deserve better living quality, fight for their right and take care each others. Why all their action is try to take away tibetan happiness, not support medication, not allow ds practitioner and non practitioner communicate, ask monk to swear in give up practise given by their guru and etc ??
May ban should be lifted by now !! In this era still have such not democratic things happen is not acceptable!! I think HHDL noticed this ban can’t keep any longer this shown from HHDL step down and Dr Lobsang Sangye as prime minister to do secular work. So in this case CTA not suppose to keep up the ban because they suppose to do secular work instead of ban tibetan and practitioners to do religious action such as practise DS. Thank you very much for admin to bring up all this important points for more people to know CTA and HHDL is contradicted themselves obviously.
I extremely respect HHDL and not try to create disharmony in tibetan community or relationship of HHDL and his disciples, but this ban need to be lifted now and stop cause suffering anymore.
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Thank you Mana for posting these four important questions (it made me think how to respond? and I decided that my answers should be from the point of view of what would I want from CTA if I was Tibetan? I am not but would hope that Tibetans would ask these questions of their elected representatives...)
Q1. HHDL is well within his rights as spiritual head NOT to allow certain people to come to his talks as a spiritual head.
As an ordained Buddhist Monk HHDL has the commitment not to harm others including not to kill and not to cause people suffering? Therefore is he indirectly against the vows he is holding?
What is not correct as spiritual head is to mix spiritual instructions with secular activities.
Why? Because the potential for abuse of the basic human rights that all persons should receive on the SECULAR side is eroded.
HHDL may say he is ONLY concerned with spiritual affairs but he cannot refute that his position on DS practioners and ban of their practice has RESULTED in DS practioners receiving less rights under Secular law as with all other Tibetans.
This is WRONG in any democracy around the world.
HHDL can also speak up and make clear what is SECULAR (NOT SPIRITUAL) – ALTERNATIVELY DR LOBSANG SANGYE and other representatives could ALSO Say that as an Elected Representative of ALL TIBETANS they have a responsibility to represent ALL TIBETANS IN SECULAR AFFAIRS.
All of the representatives have spent significant time in various countries and democracies around the world to understand how a democratic system works. How representatives are elected and what their role requires.
If they are unsure? TIBETANS also NEED TO VOICE their concerns from a position of real COMPASSION not just for ALL TIBETANS but for the future generations of Tibetans inside and outside of Tibet? What will become of their people if the CTA does NOT focus on the real job of Governance. What will become of their children's children in a new modern world?
Are they equipped with the relevant skills and opportunities to navigate the modern world outside of Tibet? Or for that matter inside Tibet, will they be left behind in the fast changing technological world.
Q2. As Prime Minister Dr Lobsang Sangye and the CTA representatives are elected in a Secular Role to represent ALL Tibetans inside Tibet and in Exile. Tibetans are ALL Peoples, Young and Old, Multi-Religious, Muslim, Bonpos, Budhists, Christians, DS Practitioners, In Exile and Inside Tibet.
They are elected under the constitution to improve aspects of Tibetan life as they relate to Secular Activities? These are Government issues in any democracy as they relate to key issues such as:
i) Education.
- How many Tibetans go onto higher education inside Tibet or in Exile Communities?
- What are the literacy initiatives are their for Children inside Tibet and in Exile communities?
- Are their opportunities for sponsoring Tibetans? To do university study inside Tibet and in Exile?
- What is the government Budget for the CTA in this area?
- What are their plans to address the key issues in the area of education?
ii) Health.
- Do all Tibetans have access to affordable health care inside Tibet and in Exile Communities?
Are Tibetans receiving training to provide for their own health care or understand how to use services
provided to them?
What is the average life expectancy of Tibetans inside Tibet? (no stats?)
Talking with friends it is not uncommon for Tibetans to die in their mid-thirties or younger due to complications with receiving /accessing medical services due to cost and incorrect diagnosis.
- What is the CTA budget in this area?
- What key issues will be addressed in the area of Health for Tibetan people?
iii) Employment
- How will jobs and training be created for Tibetans inside Tibet and Exile communities?
- Are their grants or access to start up funding for small business and training?
- What is the government budget in this area?
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iv) Finances
- How is the budget of CTA made up of?
- Do Tibetans fully contribute to this and if they did who and how would this be managed?
Presently, funding is made up of worldwide relief organizations, western governments, private charitable trusts, private individuals, independence tax (green book) and recently (blue book) donations solicited by any pro HHDL individuals in the west. A large proportion is contributed from HHDL teachings abroad (approx 30%)
- So what happens to CTA if they cannot count on HHDL funding when he is not around in the future?
Where has all the money gone? When you do a little research in terms of funding a lot of money has come into CTA coffers over the years and not much results for the amont of money brought in post 1959?
v) Strategic Planning for the Future? CTA Vision?
For example what are the nuts and bolts of CTA Vision for Tibetans inside Tibet and In Exile communities around the world?
What is the plan to enable all TIBETANS to survive and thrive in a modern 21st century world of opportunities? To have autonomy and access to the same rights and opportunities as ALL persons in the countries that they live.
vi) Economic Growth / Wealth of the Nation and its people.
Does the CTA even have an idea of what the Tibetans are capable of contributing to in the global scheme of things? What skills do they need to develop as a nation to look after its people?
vii) Trade?
What is Tibet’s greatest export to the world? For example the Germany (Manufacturing expertise) France (Cuisine / Wine / Food) USA (technology) etc..
Tibet (What does Tibet have to offer the world? apart from Buddha Dharma? / Teachers and Buddhist Arts etc)
Tibet has vast mineral reserves and wealth currently not available to them? How do they think they will redress this situation.
Their are many other issues concerning how Tibetans are able to learn the skills required for the development of these industries not to mention issues of the environment etc.
Secular Governments are required to be transparent on these issues keeping all of its people up to date on the relevant issues under each portfolio.
In relation to Q3. and Q4.
FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION is not death threats, ostracisation from society to whisper campaigns to discredit those with opposing views.
Ask yourselves where is the FREE media asking the relevant questions of its ministers under each portfolio as to what they are doing? Or not doing? And why they have not achieved what they set out to do within the term of their office? WHY DO DS PRACTITIONERS NOT HAVE THE SAME HUMAN RIGHTS AS THEIR FELLOW TIBETANS?
A FREE MEDIA in any democracy is FREE TO REPORT on issues as they relate to their ministers and representatives, allowing ALL VIEWS to be expressed, the RESULT OPEN DEBATE on the issues of concern by the people.
The only independent newspaper in Dharamsala, Democracy (Mang Tso) stopped publishing in 1996 under pressure from the then TGIE.
Little steps in lifting the Ban...but where is the FREE MEDIA reporting on all the issues?
How Dr Lobsang Sangye relates to DS practioners? The key point to realise here is the Prime Minister is a layperson elected for a Secular Role.
He is NOT a spiritual guide and has NO AUTHORITY in the MONASTERY and SPIRITUAL AFFAIRS OF Lamas, Monks and Nuns within the Monastery. Lamas do not report to the CTA for guidance into their affairs and likewise CTA does not report to Lamas, Monks, Nuns for advice on SECULAR AFFAIRS (see above).
What the CTA is meant to be doing? (in their own words see below).
Parliament consists of 44 members. Ten members each from U-Tsang, Do-tod and Do-med, the three traditional provinces of Tibet, while the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism and the traditional Bon faith elect two members each. Four members are elected by Tibetans in the west: two from Europe, one from North America and one from Canada.
The members of the Parliament undertake periodic tours to Tibetan settlements to make an assessment of people’s overall conditions. On their return, they bring to the notice of the administration about all the grievances and matters which need attention. The Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile keeps in touch with people also through Local Parliaments established in 38 major Tibetan communities.
The Charter provides for the establishment of a Local Parliament in a community having a population of not less than 160.
The Local Parliaments are scaled-down replicas of the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile. They keep an eye on the activities of their respective settlement/welfare officers. They also make laws for their respective communities according to the latter’s felt-needs. The laws passed by the Local Parliament must be implemented by the respective settlement/welfare officer.
It seems clear to me and all us DS supporters that CTA main concern is for the care and support for all it's people they represent. Also had another that the CTA has the means and subtle hints of how to progress already in place just needs real leadership to unify all Tibetans and move on focusing on the many issues affecting Tibetans in a modern world.
Time for Change - Lift the Ban!
xo
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In a speech to the Lithuanian Parliament, October 1, 1991 the Dalai Lama said: “Of course, sometimes religion has been used to create divisions and problems between people. That is very unfortunate and sad because I believe religion should do the opposite: it should develop harmony, compassion and understanding among people. The fact that there are differences should not create conflict. It is useful to have different religions so that people can practice the religion that best fits their mental disposition.” (However, this doesn't seem to be the case of such as religious freedom is non-existence within the Shugdenpas.)
This speech denotes religion can be used to a greater understanding and development of a harmonious community. Without spirituality, a ruthless dictator will manifest. Imagine what a great leader Siddharta would be if he were to continue remaining in the palace?
Now that the new prime minister of CTA has taken over, the only hope is he will apply the real spiritual fundamentals and stop the injustice of religious freedom within the Tibetan community.
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Why do the Tibetans complain and cry on the suppression of their religious freedom, but inflict the same kind of suppression to their own people? It does not make sense at all. If the law of karma is the cause resembles the result, isnt what CTA is doing creating the direct causes for China to tighten its grip more on Tibetans and oppress those who do not tow in line with the Chinese government's wishes. Why cant the Tibetans see this even though they know the law of karma, they have the Dharma, they should know what is right and what is wrong. How can hurting and ostracizing others be right in any way, no matter what the situation, and destroying the homes of others?
The Dalai Lama and the CTA have stated over and over again that it is up to people to "choose" what they wish to practice, that it is a religious choice and that there is no ban because people have the "freedom" to choose whether to maintain or discard their practice of Shugden.
This is not choice though.
Real, true religious choice in other democratic countries in the world would mean that no matter what your religion was, you would still be entitled to state benefits, voting rights, welfare, education and all the liberties that are granted to other citizens. Clearly, this isn't the case in the exile Tibetan communities in India or Nepal: making the "choice" to keep practising Shugden results only in complete ostracism and discrimination. You are excluded from all mainstream activities, policy and welfare. In some cases, you are forbidden from even meeting your family, since shugdenpas are clearly instructed not to mix with non-shugdenpas, and vice versa.
What kind of "freedom of choice" is this? How is this democratic or fair? This is not granting people a choice. It is forcing them into a corner to force them to make a choice or suffer the worse kind of abandonment within an already exiled community.
Do the Tibetans realise that they are creating their own 21st century version of apartheid?
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For the first question, it doesn’t make sense for the Dalai Lama to mix religion and politics because as their leader, he should still give all the monks the bare necessities, even if the monks are Dorje Shugden practitioners for the resources are not related to anything religious or political but it is just human welfare. For the second question, now that the Dalai Lama has given his secular power to the first Prime Minister, Dr. Lobsang Sangye, the Dorje shugden practitioners can now have access to food, water, shelter, etc. and don’t have to interact with him whatsoever and just respect him and accept him as their secular leader for they do not have any samaya with the first Prime minister. For the third question, Dr. Lobsang Sangye , the first Prime Minister, should just give the Dorje shugden practitioners food, water, etc. because, as I said earlier, he does not have any samaya with them. And for the last question, the Dorje Shugden practitioners should relate to the other prime ministers as just their secular leader.
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Why these 4 important questions should be answered by ALL TIBETANS and Everyone who cares?
Seeing this question again in the forum broke my heart again and holding back the tears for Tibetan friends who lost many loved ones in Tibet for no other reason except that they were unable to get medical care for things like the common cold...why? because they didn't have access to jobs to pay for medical care etc...etc...I heard so many stories about brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, young and old in the refugee community where I live.
It sounds so cliche this could be a story from Africa, Middle East or anywhere (no offence intended to all countries in the Africa or Middle East) the ONLY DIFFERENCE is these places AT LEAST MAKE EFFORTS to PROVIDE AND CARE FOR ALL THEIR CITIZENS.
I am only one voice who has chance to speak in a forum that listens...My question to CTA Please do your job to the best of your abilities and represent ALL Tibetans. YOU ARE SECULAR REPRESENTATIVES ELECTED TO REPRESENT ALL TIBETANS.
This is apartheid plain and simple, I have also seen the opposite side of what can be? when Ireland made peace and when Nelson Mandela won democratic elections. In both cases the young people were the true beneficiaries of becoming integrated into the wider world.
The excitement of being able to move freely in the world to travel and meet people, to find opportunities for study and work. Just some observations from a not so young person now.
CTA please make your job to create opportunities for the younger generation. Two words spring to mind...Impermanence and Karma. The real question is for who? and is their time to Change before it is too late?
xo