dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mana on March 13, 2012, 12:43:25 PM
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This website has recieved very clear information today from our long time and very reliable source that when Lama Zopa was very ill recently about 7 months back, a monk of Kopan Monastery went in secret to Phelgye Ling Monastery (Swayambunath area) to request them to do Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa's health.
Phelygye Ling monastery's senior administrator refused saying since Lama Zopa and his group are so 'vehemently' against Shugden, why come running to request Shugden puja once Lama Zopa is sick?
The Kopan monk people had the Shugden puja urgently done at another Monastery practicing Shugden in Kathmandu. The name of this Monastery is unknown for now, but we will find out.
Mana
( A divination must have been done that Shugden pujas are required urgently for Lama Zopa otherwise Kopan monks wouldn't come running to Phelgye Ling requesting for this. They lose face. )
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This is interesting. As Buddhist practitioners, is our ego and face more important than our lama that we would allow him to suffer just for the sake of being in the correct political party? Kopan monastery has done some really nasty things to the current incarnation of Pabongkha, basically snatching away his sponsors and isolating him in Nepal. This development is indeed interesting.
The Lama does not need to do divinations nor does he need to consult oracles to know what needs to be done. Lama Zopa needing Dorje Shugden pujas to be done is a very clear indication that he did not and never intended for the whole anti Shugden crusade that has been happening in his Dharma centers. It was done by force by his students who preferred following the Dalai Lama over their own lama.
I have heard of many stories during recent times that sponsors and committees of temples and centers overriding the teacher's instructions for various personal gains and also for the "survival" of the center. It is so sad when these days people see that their face and how they look as more important than the teacher himself because that is how Dharma degenerates. The more these FPMT centers destroy the main practice of their founders, the more consequences that they have to reap.
The stroke is but a warning to the students to stop doing such nonsense and start focusing on learning more about their lineage teachings and applying them into practice, and also following Lama Zopa's instructions as opposed to spending time crusading against other centers and Dorje Shugden practitioners.
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This website has recieved very clear information today from our long time and very reliable source that when Lama Zopa was very ill recently about 7 months back, a monk of Kopan Monastery went in secret to Phelgye Ling Monastery (Swayambunath area) to request them to do Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa's health.
Phelygye Ling monastery's senior administrator refused saying since Lama Zopa and his group are so 'vehemently' against Shugden, why come running to request Shugden puja once Lama Zopa is sick?
The Kopan monk people had the Shugden puja urgently done at another Monastery practicing Shugden in Kathmandu. The name of this Monastery is unknown for now, but we will find out.
Mana
( A divination must have been done that Shugden pujas are required urgently for Lama Zopa otherwise Kopan monks wouldn't come running to Phelgye Ling requesting for this. They lose face. )
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Are we surprised ? Not at all.
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This website has recieved very clear information today from our long time and very reliable source that when Lama Zopa was very ill recently about 7 months back, a monk of Kopan Monastery went in secret to Phelgye Ling Monastery (Swayambunath area) to request them to do Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa's health.
Phelygye Ling monastery's senior administrator refused saying since Lama Zopa and his group are so 'vehemently' against Shugden, why come running to request Shugden puja once Lama Zopa is sick?
The Kopan monk people had the Shugden puja urgently done at another Monastery practicing Shugden in Kathmandu. The name of this Monastery is unknown for now, but we will find out.
Mana
( A divination must have been done that Shugden pujas are required urgently for Lama Zopa otherwise Kopan monks wouldn't come running to Phelgye Ling requesting for this. They lose face. )
I have myself, in my prayers, dedicated my merits for Lama Zopa to recover from His health challenge, and for His students to be up to the task.
Anyone could very well have requested or sponsored for special pujas to be done from an official DS monastery. Because they care, eventhough they are not FPMT.
Yet, this may be showing that some monks from Kopan monastery do care about Lama Zopa so much that they do what is necessary, and may even brave the ban...
I am not sure we can link more than that from this info...
And even though it gets one to think of the possibilities arising from this information, nothing specific could be concluded yet.
Perhaps a divination was done requiring for such puja to be done, and together with Zach I would not be surprised at all... but we can't know for sure...
It is very nice to hear that this was done though, very nice, it feels right!
I am thinking about the Kopan monk who exposed himself by going to the Phelgye Ling Monastery, very brave!
May Lama Zopa's health continue to improve.
May He keep teaching and may He remain with us.
Thank you Mana for this information.
I am looking forward to know more about it, for as long as it does not put anyone in trouble.
Hope Rainbow
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Phelygye Ling monastery's senior administrator refused saying since Lama Zopa and his group are so 'vehemently' against Shugden, why come running to request Shugden puja once Lama Zopa is sick?
The Kopan monk people had the Shugden puja urgently done at another Monastery practicing Shugden in Kathmandu. The name of this Monastery is unknown for now, but we will find out.
Mana
( A divination must have been done that Shugden pujas are required urgently for Lama Zopa otherwise Kopan monks wouldn't come running to Phelgye Ling requesting for this. They lose face. )
Interesting news Mana, thanks for the heads up!
I believe Lama Zopa has never given up his DS practice, why I say so, look at the link below :
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1575.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1575.0)
Lama Zopa was doing puja infront of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche Stupa, who had given DS practice to so many renown lamas that are all over the world now.
If I was the senior administrator of Phelgye Ling, I would have accepted the request from this monk from Kopan monastery and arrange the puja for Lama Zopa. Because for this monk from Kopan Monastery to come running to Phelgye Ling and risk his life and possibly expulsion from Kopan if found out, it showed how much he loved his guru, the guru devotion propelled him to do whatever it took to help Lama zopa to recover. I just wish the administrator has accepted the request.
Glad that finally another Ds monastery in Kathmadu did the DS puja for Lama Zopa. And also Lama Zopa is recovering well now.
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This is hot news indeed! I must say that for there to be a request for a Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa’s health is not surprising. After all, Dorje Shugden is incredibly powerful and swift. Especially also that there is the close link that Lama Zopa has with Dorje Shugden. After all, it was Dorje Shugden who identified Lama Zopa as a Rinpoche (Read about it here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=49.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=49.0))
Even though FPMT has meekly followed the Dalai Lama’s ban on Dorje Shugden practice, I know that Lama Zopa has never directly criticized Dorje Shugden and Lama Zopa has always emphasised following the Dalai Lama’s advice. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=862.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=862.0)
It must have been very difficult for Lama Zopa to have decided to break samaya with Lama Yeshe and give up Dorje Shugden practice. It would have been a very powerful statement if FPMT had decided to defy the ban and continue with the precious protector practice as initiated by Lama Yeshe, who founded FPMT.
FPMT being such a large organisation worldwide would have given many Dorje Shugden practitioners strength to also stand up for Dorje Shugden and against the ban. Can you imagine the two large organisations – NKT and FPMT – continuing Dorje Shugden practice? But alas, FPMT decided to tow the party line.
The results – Lama Osel (Lama Yeshe’s recognised reincarnation) has broken away from FPMT and Lama Zopa had a stroke. The facts speak for themselves.
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March 8th 2012
Dear Friends,
Ven Roger recently checked with Ven. Denma Locho Rinpoche whether there was anything FPMT centers, projects and services and students can do to help with Lama Zopa Rinpoche’s quick recovery. Denma Locho Rinpoche kindly advised a few pujas, which we are arranging now, and then gave the following advice:
"The students and centers really need to work according to Rinpoche's wishes. Whatever Rinpoche has advised for the them to do, it’s important to follow Rinpoche’s advice. The main thing is that everyone in the organization should really strive to fulfill Rinpoche’s advice.
In order to be harmonious, generally, you should not look for any faults in others, but look for the positive, the inner qualities. Thinking negatively like, "He is bad, she is bad", will not lead to harmony. Try to see the qualities in others and try to work harmoniously.
Recite the prayer Losang gyal tan ma - The Prayer for the Flourishing of Je Tsongkhapa’s Teachings - well [for links to the prayer see below]. Please recite it well. If students can do that, that’s really great.
But the most important thing is not looking at each others’ faults but looking at the qualities of others.
Then, whatever responsibility you have in the center [project or service], do the work from your heart, put all your energy into that, take the difficulties/hardships upon yourself and do the work wholeheartedly. If the work is done well, this will benefit the teachings of the Buddha, and also it will bring about happiness and joy to all sentient beings."
Source from: [url]http://www.fpmt.org/teachers/zopa.html[/url] ([url]http://www.fpmt.org/teachers/zopa.html[/url])
It stated above a few pujas to be done, but did not go in detail of what puja to be done, could it be some of it is Dorje Shugden? They only mention the prayer for the Flourishing of Je Tsongkhapa’s Teachings.
In order to be harmonious, generally, you should not look for any faults in others, but look for the positive, the inner qualities. Thinking negatively like, "He is bad, she is bad", will not lead to harmony. Try to see the qualities in others and try to work harmoniously.
I hope they really understand what does this mean, for what they are doing to Dorje Shugden is not what the above statement applies, many people wanted to look good at the outside but not in the inside, if this sickness of Lama Zopa is to make them realize this, I hope they do and make a transformation in mind.
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I guess when all else fails and the Lama Zopa uses his own health and life, manifesting the last resort to help his students realise something... transform perhaps?? And when all the other pujas done were still not effective, they go to Dorje Shugden... why is he was a demon and would cause harm??? Unless it is the opposite which we all know and is the obvious.
After all, it was Dorje Shugden who identified Lama Zopa as a Rinpoche (Read about it here: [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=49.0[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=49.0[/url]))
Even though FPMT has meekly followed the Dalai Lama’s ban on Dorje Shugden practice, I know that Lama Zopa has never directly criticized Dorje Shugden and Lama Zopa has always emphasised following the Dalai Lama’s advice. [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=862.0[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=862.0[/url])
I couldn't agree with u more WB... although Lama Zopa followed HHDL, he has never once said anything negative or schismatic towards Dorje Shugden or those practising DS. Perhaps his move was one that looks like politically correct but in secret who knows, Lama Zopa may still be doing DS practice quietly... which I would not be surprised.
I guess having huge centres all around the world has its pros and cons and the cons being... well i guess not many students get to see their Lama and they tend to take matters in to their own thinking and hands which sometime causes more harm then help and unfortunately this goes back to their Lama which they often forget.
I truly hope Dorje Shugden will convince Lama Zopa to heal himself and blesses Lama Zopa's body...
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Lama Zopa would recover much faster if Kopan and all of FPMT apologizes to Shugden and ask for a large Shugden pujas to be done. If this is done, things will be better. If it is not, it is the beginning of the end for them. No one can replace Lama Zopa within their organization. And Lama Osel is nowhere to be seen or heard and not interested in FPMT.
The price of giving up the practice of Shugden given by Lama Yeshe in order to be politically correct with the Dalai Lama creates the causes for heavy karma to open and ripen. Heavy broken samaya. When Lama Osel went away, that was their first sign things are going wrong. Now with Lama Zopa severely ill is the second sign. All for what? A few snapshot photos with the Dalai Lama they can post up on their websites? Not worth it. Save their Lama. They need Shugden very much now.
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Lama Zopa would recover much faster if Kopan and all of FPMT apologizes to Shugden and ask for a large Shugden pujas to be done. If this is done, things will be better. If it is not, it is the beginning of the end for them. No one can replace Lama Zopa within their organization. And Lama Osel is nowhere to be seen or heard and not interested in FPMT.
The price of giving up the practice of Shugden given by Lama Yeshe in order to be politically correct with the Dalai Lama creates the causes for heavy karma to open and ripen. Heavy broken samaya. When Lama Osel went away, that was their first sign things are going wrong. Now with Lama Zopa severely ill is the second sign. All for what? A few snapshot photos with the Dalai Lama they can post up on their websites? Not worth it. Save their Lama. They need Shugden very much now.
FPMT = Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition
Where is the "preservation" when samaya is broken and when the enlightened Protector Dorje Shugden is officially banned?
There is always a possibility also that Lama Zopa received instruction from His Guru to follow the Dalai Lama's instructions, just as was asked of Samdhong Rinpoche by Trijang Rinpoche.
In this instance, samaya is not broken, though it appears to be
Yet, how to "fix things up" afterwards... When the result is achieved and makes Dorje Shugden "famous" and mainstream, through the force of a ban, then there must be "damage control", and perceptions must be repaired. For this part, I have no idea what and how... I guess it'll take a generation if not more.
Will FPMT survive? I do hope so! There is a young and charismatic leader ready to take over. As Thaimonk says, it is time to apologize and repair... That is the only honorable thing to do and also the most constructive.
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Will FPMT survive? I do hope so! There is a young and charismatic leader ready to take over. As Thaimonk says, it is time to apologize and repair... That is the only honorable thing to do and also the most constructive.
True preservation of the linegae endures a lot of ego shedding right now for FPMT..........so what will happen when Lama Zopa pass away? FPMT will have a big vaccum in the spiritual leader role....so before it gets too out of hand, it is better to rectify what had been done wrongly.........
Yes, apologise and make request to repair the broken samaya with Lama Osel, Politics has seasons......it comes and goes, but not one's root guru. So FPMT, it is ok to make mistakes....but rectify it as soon as possible. even Dalai Lama, with no disrespect, will one day pass on, so who to take picture with???
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I do believe that Lama Zopa has never given up this practice. How can he when he himself was recognized as a reincarnation of Lawudo Lama by Dorje Shugden himself. If Lama Zopa truly gave up his Dorje Shugden practices then he would have to give up all the practices that Lama Yeshe gave him also.
I am not surprised for the urgent need to do Dorje Shugden pujas for Lama Zopa. Dorje Shugden is swift and powerful in clearing away obstacles and both of them has a close link with each other. However, it is sad to see that Lama Zopa has to manifest ill health to help his students realized something..…it is like a wakeup call for them to get their acts together. I hope FPMT regrets what they have done and apologizes to Dorje Shugden and ask for forgiveness before everything falls apart if Lama Zopa passes away.
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Oooohhh!!! This is indeed delicious news. I am glad that someone in Lama Zopa's camp is open to Dorje Shugden. There must be a faction within the FPMT that is open to pujas being done for Lama Zopa to be healed. That means there is hope that something could be done for FPMT to apologize to Dorje Shugden. I am not sure of how influential this little group is but the very fact that Dorje Shugden pujas are being done means they are open and aware of how powerful and beneficial Dorje Shugden is.
Someone has got to remind them of Lama Yeshe's and Lama Zopa's main Protector was Dorje Shugden before the ban. Renouncing one's lineage practice like that would be devastating karmically and samaya-wise. They are already experiencing the initial effects and hopefully they will pay heed to make amends before it is too late.
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When it comes down to it, Lama Zopa's monks still turn to Dorje Shugden. Firstly, this says to me that the Kopan Monastery monks never really did believe that Dorje Shugden was an evil spirit and I would not be one bit surprised to learn that many are still carrying on the practice on the quiet.
Which monk in the monastery would wish to do anything detrimental to Lama Zopa if they firmly believed that Dorje Shugden is a malignant spirit and that Lama Zopa is really anti--Shugden? It is interesting to note that a puja was done and Lama Zopa survived. This fact would be well known to all monks at Kopan by now.
Lama Zopa never outwardly and blatantly said anything negatively against the Protector. His message about the ban was confusing and full of contradiction and till this day he continues to show great love and reverence to Trijang Rinpoche whose name is almost always synonymous to the Dorje Shugden practice.
I am a little surprised that another monastery would refuse puja for a sick person let alone a High Lama.
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Oooohhh!!! This is indeed delicious news. I am glad that someone in Lama Zopa's camp is open to Dorje Shugden. There must be a faction within the FPMT that is open to pujas being done for Lama Zopa to be healed. That means there is hope that something could be done for FPMT to apologize to Dorje Shugden. I am not sure of how influential this little group is but the very fact that Dorje Shugden pujas are being done means they are open and aware of how powerful and beneficial Dorje Shugden is.
Someone has got to remind them of Lama Yeshe's and Lama Zopa's main Protector was Dorje Shugden before the ban. Renouncing one's lineage practice like that would be devastating karmically and samaya-wise. They are already experiencing the initial effects and hopefully they will pay heed to make amends before it is too late.
I don't believe Lama Zopa would abandon something that his Gurus have given him. HHDL did ask him to stop practicing openly but never commanded him to cut off his practice. That does not mean that the center has to stop practicing, or even having to be crusaders that assault and persecute Dorje Shugden practitioners. They could have just allowed their members to practice out of choice and not make nasty statements against those who do or forbid them.
FPMT centers are sadly famous for being political the world over. They always want to be authoritative and mainstream in the countries they set foot on. And they and their members have been very anti Dorje Shugden and they have been spreading the word to go against those who practice Dorje Shugden. In fact, they seem to have a knack for identifying cults (read: Dharma centers which does not fit into their criteria) and spreading negative information against them.
It is quite obvious that the whole anti Shugden crusade was started not by the will of Lama Zopa but by the will of certain students who are using the Dharma center as a platform to feed their insecurities or spread their own views. These students obviously have no regard for Lama Yeshe or Lama Zopa, they just care about being politically correct and aligned even if their Lama does not return or falls ill.
It is pretty sad to see Buddhists working not for the sake of the Dharma but merely to be politically correct at any cost, even if it hurts others deeply and even if it hurts their own Guru who has been kinder to them than the Dalai Lama. Win the Dalai Lama's affection in lieu of your own Guru's? how sad that is..its like abandoning your own parents who took care of your since you were young for a richer one that you just met on the roadside.
If they want their Guru to live long, they should really stop being political and just focus on their own Dharma practice rather than policing the whole country's Dharma practice.
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I don't believe Lama Zopa would abandon something that his Gurus have given him. HHDL did ask him to stop practicing openly but never commanded him to cut off his practice.
That does not mean that the center has to stop practicing, or even having to be crusaders that assault and persecute Dorje Shugden practitioners.
They could have just allowed their members to practice out of choice and not make nasty statements against those who do or forbid them.
Perhaps Lama Zopa did follow his Guru's instruction when he decided to follow the Dalai Lama's instructions, just as Samdhong Rinpoche did.
So, when the Dalai Lama requests of him to stop the practice, then he stops the practice... officially...
We know it is the case with Samdhong Rinpoche because He said so, for Lama Zopa, we do not know.. yet..
That's be interesting, right?
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I don't believe Lama Zopa would abandon something that his Gurus have given him. HHDL did ask him to stop practicing openly but never commanded him to cut off his practice.
That does not mean that the center has to stop practicing, or even having to be crusaders that assault and persecute Dorje Shugden practitioners.
They could have just allowed their members to practice out of choice and not make nasty statements against those who do or forbid them.
Perhaps Lama Zopa did follow his Guru's instruction when he decided to follow the Dalai Lama's instructions, just as Samdhong Rinpoche did.
So, when the Dalai Lama requests of him to stop the practice, then he stops the practice... officially...
We know it is the case with Samdhong Rinpoche because He said so, for Lama Zopa, we do not know.. yet..
That's be interesting, right?
I do believe chances are high as what you said HopeRainbow. After all, Lama Zopa has never condemned DS practice not the practitioners, he just outwardly does not practise it. I strongly believe he is secretly continuing this practice given to him by his Guru Lama Yeshe. A couple of months ago, Lama Zopa was seen doing prayers in front of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's stupa, that said something subtly already!
This only shows one thing....that DS practitioners are for harmony and peace, and they strictly follow thier guru's advice, they dont want to mix religion/spirituality with politics becasue all they want is attainments and not to look "goody two shoes" .
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It is interesting how much this news revealed. I believe and after reading all the comments, it is obvious Lama Zopa practises Dorje Shugden, otherwise how could monks from his center seek to have a Shugden puja for him.
Another thing that also shows is that many of FPMT monks also practice DS but had to keep quiet in order to tow the "party line" of conduct.
I feel so much pain and anxiety for the monks who approached Phelgye Ling monastery, being refused and having to run around to ask help elsewhere. Thank goodness that they managed. DS is compassionate and found a way for these monks.
How can all DS practitioners rally together to have the ban lifted to alleviate so much suffering. To prevent great lamas like Lama Zopa to manifest bodily harm to awaken his students and practitioners.
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Till today, the ban on Dorje Shugden (DS) has created so much suffering on the DS practitioners of all levels. Out of ignorance, FPMT’s administration or governing body had chosen to go along with the ban. FPMT had in fact gone a bit too far as policing others and restricting others’ freedom to practise. What right have FPMT to stop other centres and individual practitioners their freedom to practise DS?
Hope Rainbow is right about the “Preservation”. Dorje Shugden is part of the Mahayana Tradition. How can FPMT preserve the Mahayana Tradition if you ban your lineage practice? FPMT is no longer FPMT because your action on DS had invalidated FPMT’s mission to preserve Mahayana Tradition.
Phelgye Ling Monastery’s senior administrator’s refusal to conduct the DS puja when requested by the Kopan Monastery’s monk is an example of the repercussion of FPMT’s action to ban DS practice. We can’t imagine what other heavy negative karma that FPMT has to absorb in the future - broken samayas with Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche, disrespecting DS, creating schisms to name a few.
I agree with Vajratruth. How could the said senior administrator refuse to help conduct a DS puja for Lama Zopa Rinpoche!
Lama Zopa Rinpoche is in a very difficult position just like any other abbots & high lamas or rinpoches who are DS lineage holders and yet were ‘forced’ by the ban to stop the DS practice. I believe all these lineage holders will never ban or stop DS practice which is the essence of the Gelug Lineage! Practitioners of the Gelug Tradition should be loyal and devoted to their lamas and followed their instructions especially during this ban. HH Dalai Lama had banned DS but did HH Dalai Lama say DS practitioners cannot practise DS? Recall that HH Dalai Lama had said that if we practise DS then don’t attend his initiations.
It is indeed sad to know Lama Zopa Rinpoche is ill. All high lamas are very compassionate. They will always take on the suffering of their students. Hence when the lama is ill, it shows that the lama is absorbing the negative karma of his students. So, we can see that Lama Zopa Rinpoche is clearly absorbing tons and tons of heavy negative karma of his students in FPMT and Kopan Monastery who had committed a lot of negative actions in relation to Dorje Shugden.
Hence, if FPMT and Kopan Monastery want Lama Zopa Rinpoche to be healthy and live long, it is very simple, be devoted and loyal to your lama. Listen to your lama’s instructions and stop your negative actions against DS! There is no other better pujas to help Lama Zopa regain his health than your sincere wish to change. Make your lama happy before it is too late! You have already ‘lost’ Lama Yeshe’s current incarnation. Do you want to lose Lama Zopa Rinpoche?
The move by the Kopan Monastery monk to request DS puja shows that there are sincere DS practitioners in Kopan Monastery who cares about the DS practice but are silenced by FPMT’s stance on the ban. Please speak up and defend DS before FPMT loses its future as one of the most established Gelug centres in the World.
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Hi,
I have noticed people saying that Osel Hita has abandoned the fpmt, lama Zopa etc. As far as I was aware he is still fond of them and in contact with them. He has a facebook page and recently was in India Meeting Lama Zopa etc. Here is a picture of him at Kopan.
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Dear Gomchen
It's heartening to hear that Lama Osel is still close to FPMT and Lama Zopa. I did read that Lama Osel went to visit Lama Zopa in Australia when Lama Zopa had the stroke. As Lama Osel IS Lama Yeshe, it doesn’t surprise me that he will have a strong bond with Lama Zopa. Why Lama Osel is staying away from FPMT and his destined role as a Lama, I can only guess that it is due to the broken samaya with Dorje Shugden.
By the way, please do post Lama Osel’s facebook page url. I’d love to take a look. I tried searching for it but couldn’t find it.
Thanks!
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Quote: Phelgye Ling Monastery’s senior administrator’s refusal to conduct the DS puja when requested by the Kopan Monastery’s monk is an example of the repercussion of FPMT’s action to ban DS practice. We can’t imagine what other heavy negative karma that FPMT has to absorb in the future - broken samayas with Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche, disrespecting DS, creating schisms to name a few.
I agree with Vajratruth. How could the said senior administrator refuse to help conduct a DS puja for Lama Zopa Rinpoche! "
I disagree. Those monks of Pelgyeling are risking their lives in continuing to faithfully follow their Gurus instructions and practise Dorje Shugden. Lama Zopa is actively trying to destroy the practise of Dorje Shugden, see :
In the FPMT (Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition) Handbook, Lama Zopa says:
"All those who offer service or teach in FPMT centers are committed to follow the advice of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. As an example, His Holiness has prohibited the practice of the so-called protector, Do Gyel (Shugden), so teachers or others affiliated with the FPMT should not engage in this practice."
This also extends to ordination. From the IMI/FPMT website:
Students considering ordination should also:
have had Buddhist refuge for at least five years,
have lived with lay vows for at least three years,
NOT be a Shugden practitioner,
be at least 20 years of age, etc etc
also from Lama Zopa:
http://www.lamayeshe.com/index.php?sect=article&id=335 (http://www.lamayeshe.com/index.php?sect=article&id=335)
Dorje Shugden is a spirit or mundane Dharma protector that some believe is a fully enlightened being. He has become a rallying cry for some who wish to return Tibet to a theocracy (His Holiness the Dalai Lama wants democracy) with one school or sect as the official ‘church’. No FPMT center does this practice and all fully support His Holiness the Dalai Lama's wish that this practice not be done. For more information, see http://www.tibet.com/dholgyal/index.html. (http://www.tibet.com/dholgyal/index.html.)
and :
If those gurus who used to do the practice still had the same aspect now, if they were still alive in that aspect, they would also change. For example, His Holiness himself did the practice in Tibet for a short while, but after extensive analysis, checking many experiences and signs, and considering the advice of many other high lamas who advised not to do the practice, His Holiness also decided against it.
It is not only His Holiness who is saying not to do this practice. Before His Holiness, many other high lamas, holders of the entire Buddhadharma, also instructed their monasteries and students not to do this practice. After checking in many ways, His Holiness came to the conclusion that for the benefit of individual people as well as the world in general, he would stop doing this practice and also advised others to stop. Therefore, if those gurus who did the practice still had the same aspect, they would stop. Also, many gurus, many great teachers who are still living, have stopped as well, even though they used to do the practice before.
Even though many people, groups, and monasteries have asked His Holiness to change his advice on this, he has remained firm. Since he arrived at his decision through many years’ analysis, there has been no change; His Holiness always says the same thing in this regard. As His Holiness has said in many teachings, he will never change his opinion on this matter. If His Holiness the Dalai Lama is not Chenrezig, if he’s not Buddha, who else is there in the world that you can point to as Buddha? If His Holiness is not the Buddha of Compassion, then it’s a mistake to call other lamas Buddha, who are said to be incarnations of a Buddha.
[Rinpoche then explained in detail how His Holiness is Chenrezig and how the guru is Buddha.] end quote Lama Zopa
It is very clear what he is saying here !!!! DL is right , Dorje Shugden is bad and you should give up the practise !
also:
Lama Zopa:
Then, I want to specify one extra point, on the basis of the usual examination that is explained in the teachings. I want to add that, if you are making a new Dharma connection with a teacher, you should examine to make sure that that teacher is not someone who is against His Holiness Dalai Lama with respect to the practice of what’s called döl-gyäl, the protector Shugden. Make sure that that person does not do the practice. These days, that’s an extra analysis you should make. In that way, you’ll avoid problems in future.
Recently, I also introduced a new guideline for the protection of the centers and their students, which is not to invite to the center teachers who do the protector practice and are therefore against His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
Is this not clear ????
I remember reading an article in the FPMT Mandala magazine, many years ago, where he travelled to Mongolia (if I remember correctly Bakula Rinpoches monastery) and he gave money offerings to the monks, but only to those who did not practise Dorje Shugden. He said they too would get offerings if they renounced their DS practise. ::)
Vajra
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Thank you for the information. I am not really that surprised that Lama Zopa is still practicing Lord Dorje Shugden. I am concerned though for His health. May He recover swiftly after the pujas.
Was slightly disturbed when the administrator refused to perform pujas for Lama Zopa. Yes, they were against the practice but they are still Sanghas and Lama Zopa is a respectable Lama. We shouldnt do what they do instead we should be more compassionate.
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Are monks not compassionate beings, practising equality towards all beings? So why did they turn away the request for DS puja to help heal Lama Zopa? How could they be selective in who they wish to help?
What if Lama Zopa's health took a turn for the worse without the pujas - would the administrator be able to stand by and see that he did not do his part to help a fellow being, a high Lama in fact? Would they have agreed if the request came from a layman asking for a DS puja?
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I hear a lot of people here criticizing the administrators of Phelgye Ling, but the fact is that there just does not seem to be enough context or information to base any judgement on the decision of the administrators.
Until all of the story is known maybe it is best not to pass judgement. The monks of Phelgye Ling are very pure practitioners, to imply that they have no compassion is simply a false judgement in my opinion.
( I know I will get slammed for saying this, but felt the need to say so anyway)
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Are monks not compassionate beings, practising equality towards all beings? So why did they turn away the request for DS puja to help heal Lama Zopa? How could they be selective in who they wish to help?
What if Lama Zopa's health took a turn for the worse without the pujas - would the administrator be able to stand by and see that he did not do his part to help a fellow being, a high Lama in fact? Would they have agreed if the request came from a layman asking for a DS puja?
If the abbot helped and allowed the puja to be done, it would mean that the abbot is saying "Okay, what you are doing to DS practitioners is right and that you should continue to do and we endorse your actions". Obviously this should not be the case. It is wise for the abbot to refuse the monks from Kopan to show that what they are doing is not right.
Vajratruth:
Sometimes Lamas will have to say or do things due to pressure from sponsors and from key students. They cannot risk damaging the minds of these students. Perhaps some of Lama Zopa's students have samaya with HHDL and therefore in order to not disturb them, Lama Zopa has compassionately said things like these. At the same time, I also believe that some of the rules were over exaggerated by zealous disciples in order to be on the Dalai Lama's side. Definitely it is not uncommon for the students to twist or distort the Lama's instructions.
Lama Zopa definitely took the DS practice from Lama Yeshe. And if Lama Zopa would go against his own root Guru, I don't believe FPMT would have grown to such a scale. He is definitely doing it in secret, or else why would he need to request a puja from Phelgye Ling? Kopan isnt that innocent either. They were the ones who convinced Pabongkha Rinpoche's sponsor that Dorje Shugden was evil and caused the sponsor to cut off ties with Pabongkha. Acts like these will have karmic repercussions. Very heavy repercussions.
It would be interesting to see how would FPMT and Lama Zopa react after the ban. Perhaps they will welcome Dorje Shugden to their centers again? Or they will somehow say it is "legal" to practice again? At the moment we cannot tell. Nobody knew Samdhong Rinpoche is who he is until he retired anyway.
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I hear a lot of people here criticizing the administrators of Phelgye Ling, but the fact is that there just does not seem to be enough context or information to base any judgement on the decision of the administrators.
Until all of the story is known maybe it is best not to pass judgement. The monks of Phelgye Ling are very pure practitioners, to imply that they have no compassion is simply a false judgement in my opinion.
( I know I will get slammed for saying this, but felt the need to say so anyway)
I don't think people are criticizing the administrators of Phelgye Ling. You don't have to be the spokesperson for them as you are not related to them.
I don't think any judgement is being passed, people are expressing their thoughts only. All thoughts expressed can be seen as judgement or just an opinion.
Re the monks at Pelgye ling being pure, I am sure most of them are and some are not. Every monastery I have visited have pure monks strictly following the vinaya and some are not. Not all persons in robes are pure. I've met ones that gossip, hold grugdes, enjoy the good life and have skipped to the USA and disrobed immediately. I've sponsored monks in Phelgye Ling, Samten Ling, Sera, Drepung etc in the past that are disrobed now and having families.
Personally I think Pelgye Ling is a great Monastery with great senior sangha and they did the right thing to refuse the puja. If Zopa Rinpoche didn't agree to the pujas, then the pujas would not have been effective. So perhaps the good monks at Pelgye Ling couldn't get a clear answer as to whether Lama Zopa agreed or not. But one thing for sure, they did not agree to the puja when they were asked by Kopan.
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I never said I was the spokesman for Phelgye Ling. I was just stating my opinion.
Like I said, I knew I would get slammed for posting that, but I felt the need to say something the same as Ensapa did. I am ok with that though. Not sure why the rudeness but that is fine.
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I appologize for not being clearer. After rereading this thread, you are right, no one has criticized the administrators of Phelgye Ling, they were questioning the logic behind the decision that they made.
I leave you in peace. Thank you for your efforts, in all that you do. Although I may not 100% agree with some of the views, I have no right to judge. I am not wise enough to know what is best, therefore I only pray that all of our combined efforts to lift the ban bear fruit.
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Oooh la la, news fresh out of the oven!
I'm just wondering who the monk from Kopan monastery who went to Phegyeling monastery is? Is he a senior monk, a monk close to Lama Zopa Rinpoche, or what? Wondering if he received the instruction from Lama Zopa Rinpoche himself, or any of Lama Zopa Rinpoche's close disciples to get a DS puja done...would reveal alot. :)
I am happy that this monk braved and risked everything to go to a DS monastery to request for a puja to be done for his own beloved guru. I guess if it wasn't an instruction, it could have been (1) a last resort for him, (2) he has been doing practice of DS, or (3) he knows that DS is the only one that can save his guru.
Anyways, whatever it is, the bottom line is that DS's swift and effective help was called upon for Lama Zopa Rinpoche's fast recovery. So what does this tell you? Is the monk/student of Lama Zopa Rinpoche then going against his own guru's advice to follow HHDL, by requesting for a DS puja?
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@wisdom being... lama osel's facebook fanpage is: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Osel-Hita/303607519666701 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Osel-Hita/303607519666701)
I reckon there are quite a fair bit of behind the scenes scenerios like the "hot news" shared here. Sometimes one hears through the grapevine (our Dharma brothers/sisters or some centers) that a certain someone or a person has requested this or gone here or there... The ban may be in our faces but for some it certainly does not deter them to continue practising, perhaps it is merely less "obvious".
Whatever the case is, one can certainly do not need to criticize another to get the point across. We just need to continue "pushing" the facts and the clear points and not let the ban issue dilute the truth!
For those who do not already know, one surefire way is to download these letters and send them off to the relevant addresses:
LETTERS TO PRINT:
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10541 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10541)
ADDRESSES:
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=10628 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=10628)
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I'm no surprise.
Instead feel happy for the faith that the monk of Kopan Monastery has for Lord Shugden.
Dorje Shugden never wrong and never disappoint his practitioners and people that have faith with him.
Lama Zopa’s guru Lama Yeshe is a great Lama and devoted Lord Shugden practitioner. He constantly mentioned may times that Dorje Shugden made his work grow as far a as it did during his life time.
Lama Zopa could be like one of those Lamas that never gave up but silently practice. Can tell from this incident of requesting for Lord Shugden puja.
Is he changing faith or his faith has never been change? Lama Zopa was enthroned by Lord Shugden himself as a reincarnation or Tulku. I believe this is enough to tell.
I pray for Lama Zopa good health and long life.
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Finally someone has the merits to realise the mistake, swallowed his ego and did the right thing. Even in desperation. Hopefully there are many more like him. In order for our Lama to remain with us long, collective karma is needed as we need alot of merits to sustain someone so precious. May students at FPMT come to this realisation and act upon it fast and do what needs to be done before it is too late.
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Finally someone has the merits to realise the mistake, swallowed his ego and did the right thing. Even in desperation. Hopefully there are many more like him. In order for our Lama to remain with us long, collective karma is needed as we need alot of merits to sustain someone so precious. May students at FPMT come to this realisation and act upon it fast and do what needs to be done before it is too late.
I have absolutely no doubts that Lama Zopa, his ladrang and his assistants are doing Dorje Shugden in private, away from the students' noses. But the people running the center and the main committee does not agree for it to be practiced because it goes against the Dalai Lama's instructions and they want to be on the "right" side of the political game even though everyone knows Dharma is not supposed to be political.
The situation must have become very urgent and desperate for Kopan to make such a move. However, what is interesting is that Kopan themselves have renounced Dorje Shugden when they were given the choice to practice it secretly. People can always hide, be wishy washy, be political but Dharma transcends all of those and at the end of the day they have to follow the divination results.
At the end of the day, it is up to the practitioners to whether or not they want to follow Dharma or go against Dharma and follow the conventions of samsara. The Lama can control his actions and act in certain ways that may appear to bring certain conclusions, but the students should be smart and look beyond the surface to look at the Lama's actual intentions, accept, and act accordingly. This is what Guru devotion is.
To see the Lama's surface actions as a green light to execute our own delusional aspirations is very wrong and very decremental to everyone in the long run. That is what CTA is doing, and look at where it got them? Nowhere. The sad part is, that is what FPMT is doing as well, and other than being politically correct and Lama Zopa, sorry to say that they don't have much things that they are famous for these days. And they can change that.
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When Kopan monks came along to Phelgye Ling Monastery to request for pujas, it goes to show that they have much devotion to Lama Zopa and it takes whatever for them to do to ensure Lama Zopa recovers. I am certain Lama Zopa has not given up DS practice if he still openly seen doing a puja at Trijang Rinpoche's stupa, he surely does it privately. Same goes to senior monks in Kopan. They were advised not to do publicize their DS practice although they still can do it in private.
In this critical moment of Lama Zopa's health, FPMT can mend their samaya and continue DS practice. They do not need to publicise their practice but they can do it privately. It will augers well for the whole organisation and recovery of Lama Zopa's health.
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I am not surprised if Lama Zopa never gave up DS practice perhaps he's practicing silently. Happy that the monks from Kopan Monastery swallowed their pride and asked for Dorje Shugden's help.
Whatever it is, the decision for Kopan monks requesting for a DS puja really giving us a clear indication that is a lot more DS practitioner out there who are still have faith in Lord Dorje Shugden like Lama Zopa. And i think the ban will be lifted sooner than we're all expected it to be.
May Lama Zopa be healthy and long life in order to benefit.
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This is very interesting news… I have always been wondering if Lama Zopa is practising DS secretly. Such a high and respectful lama like him will go against his Guru to against the practise of DS is not logical at all . Maybe there is reason behind. Now with the request to do DS Puja for the long life of Lama Zopa, this is again showing there should be something that we may not know yet. May Lama Zopa has good health and long life to turn the wheel of Dharma. In addition, I do hope the followers of Lama Zopa will start thinking about this and stop against DS.
On the other hand, it is again showing that Lord Shugden is so powerful and compassionate. He will just help anyone who have faith in him and protect the teachings of Lama Tsongkhapa.
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well, i look at the situation this way. i thought Dorje Shugden practice must be very powerful (it shows here) and it is as good as some of the healing Buddhas. Or if may i put it this way, Lama Zopa have very strong affinity with Dorje Shugden and that is why the divination result. wild guessing anyways.
guess it is very awkward and bad feeling for the monks of Lama Zopa who previously ignored Pheygeling and now have to submit request for a puja to be done for Lama Zopa. But they had no choice and i was wondering what will be the student monks of Lama Zopa thinking about Dorje Shugden now. perhaps a different perception after this and start to realise something good about Dorje Shugden.
I hope Lama Zopa to recover very soon and remain in good health always.
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Lama Zopa doesn't need a spirit called Shugden to heal him. He gave up Shugden decades ago, why is he sick now suddenly. It has nothing to do with Shugden.
:)
With the blessings of HHDL, Lama Zopa should be fine.
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Lama Zopa doesn't need a spirit called Shugden to heal him. He gave up Shugden decades ago, why is he sick now suddenly. It has nothing to do with Shugden.
:)
With the blessings of HHDL, Lama Zopa should be fine.
The fact that the monks ran to Phelgye Ling Monastery to seek pujas to be performed for Lama Zopa's health is good enough to say that DS is able to help him. And Lama Zopa giving up his practice decades ago may be only a front to show othere. He may still be practicing DS in private, just like Samdhong Rinpoche who came out to talk after his term as Kalon Tripa.
Whether it has anything to do with Shugden or not, we do not know. But we sure know that Shugden pujas will definitely help Lama Zopa.
Did we see that HHDL giving any blessings to Lama Zopa? Nope.
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At the end of the day, there's no running away to the fact that Dorje Shugden is the protector of our time! So many times we have heard great masters practicing Dorje Shugden secretly. Let's just hope one day soon these great masters will be able to practice this great master openly.
Do your part to spread this practice. I cannot endure seeing all these great lamas and monks suffering anymore...I am sure you feel the same!
Being a coward will only leave you behind when the ban is lifted! Join the force! Free Dorje Shugden!
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I would like to believe that Lama Zopa has not given up his Shugden practice. If he had, he wouldn't be so ill due to the broken samaya of the disciples and the video of him making prayers at HH Trijang Rinpoche's stupa wouldn't have surface. Many of the lamas who "suffered" in the ban because it is not the time to come out yet, imagine if there is no one "pretend" to against it then it would just left His Holiness alone to run the show, then it wouldn't be too smart of a way to spread dharma, would it? He would sectioned himself out of the whole Buddhism because of a practice and imagine ALL the lamas are turning against His Holiness? So some Lamas have to support His Holiness and some have to be against, hence the controversial. Let people figure out the rest.
When the Kopan monk went to seek to do puja for Lama Zopa at Phelgyel Ling Monastery is a clear indication that "the insider" knows where to go. That is why it is still Dorje Shugden's name mentioned and being sought after for, what does that tell us? And it also shows the power of the puja, the devotion and the bravery to risk for the guru's life. If guru devotion is well known for in Tibetan Buddhism and it is the fundamental practice for all monks and practitioners then who would dare to abandon a practice given by their own guru?
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Lama Zopa doesn't need a spirit called Shugden to heal him. He gave up Shugden decades ago, why is he sick now suddenly. It has nothing to do with Shugden.
:)
With the blessings of HHDL, Lama Zopa should be fine.
High Lamas like Lama Zopa can very well heal themselves. It is not that Lama Zopa himself specifically needs the puja, but his students need to reestablish this connection with a very strong and important part of their lineage and practice. This will help them create the necessary merits to maintain their connection with Lama Zopa and still be able to practice with him and receive his teachings.
Lama Yeshe, the founder of FPMT, and Lama Zopa's own Guru was very much a devoted DS practitioner. Lama Zopa may have chosen, on behalf of his organisation, not to maintain the practice publicly. Whether he practices privately himself or not, we can't know, but he has never spoken badly against the practice or put anyone down for it (as far as I know - from his writings and talks, he remains always respectful). However, there have been many instances of FPMT students creating trouble for DS practitioners and speaking negatively against the practice, thus directly creating very negative karma in relations to their lineage practices and therefore, their samaya. For his students to now arrange for a DS puja, have it done and find the sponsorship for it is more for them, to purify and mend their samaya, than for Lama Zopa himself.
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Lama Zopa doesn't need a spirit called Shugden to heal him. He gave up Shugden decades ago, why is he sick now suddenly. It has nothing to do with Shugden.
:)
With the blessings of HHDL, Lama Zopa should be fine.
Then why would Kopan request pujas from one of the most pro DS monasteries out there? Obviously it is a DS puja. What else can it be? Why is it on behalf of Lama Zopa? If he does not need it then obviously there won't be such a request going around, can it? The fact that such a request popped out means that Lama Zopa is still practicing DS, but secretly and not openly.
The other question is, how do you know if he did give it up or not? Were you at his ladrang? are you his close assistant? If not how do you know? Again, Lama Zopa has shown many subtle and tongue in cheek signs that he is still practicing DS. He visited the previous Trijang Rinpoche's stupa and also consulted Denma Locho Rinpoche…all of these point to the fact that he still has faith in Dorje Shugden.
There have been many rumors going around that Lama Zopa is no longer doing DS and has "kicked" out students who refuse to give up that practice -- if that was true FPMT wouldn't have grown to this size and there would have been a lot of members who have left FPMT by then. Perhaps the rumors were created by students who want the center to look politically correct no matter what the cost.
So in the end, the Lama will always be more powerful than the students, if it is the opposite then why even get a Lama in the first place? Since when is it that the students have a say on what their lama can or cannot practice? Lama Zopa is a very powerful lama, and it was Dorje Shugden, not Nechung who confirmed his tulkuship. And if Lama Zopa is such a great being and he betrays the Dharma protector that recognized him, then what happens next would be unthinkable...