dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Namdrol on March 25, 2012, 10:52:41 PM
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I know this is just hearsay and there is no way to prove this, but just want to post this up for information sake.
A person called Billy Feng posted in a Chinese forum (http://bbs.tibetcul.com/read.php?tid=126782&page=7 (http://bbs.tibetcul.com/read.php?tid=126782&page=7)) that he is a Dorje Shugden practitioner and he took part in Dalai Lama's Kalachakra initiation, and his group of friends that went along are from all four sects and they knew that he practises Shugden but they are fine with it because they know that it is just a political issue, and he personally received blessing from the Dalai Lama and the Dalai Lama did not ask him to stop Shugden practise. And another Tibetan friend that went along had a private audience with the Dalai Lama and consulted the Dalai Lama about Shugden, the Dalai Lama replied that he should continue his Shugden practise.
from: http://bbs.tibetcul.com/read.php?tid=126782&page=7 (http://bbs.tibetcul.com/read.php?tid=126782&page=7), see attached pic for the post in chinese.
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Gosh Namdrol... is this for real??? If it is then HURRAY!!!
All this time our hunch and strong hopes that HHDL is spreading Dorje Shugden together would be true and this really does make everything we've been discussing on this forum; the illogical reasons given by HHDL about the ban, the fact that he allows HH Trijang Choktrul to continue DS practice, the fact that HHDL starts a controversy knowing the consequences He and his people will face, the fact that China will surely be in doubly favour to DS due to his strong opposition... every little puzzle would probably make sense if this was true.
It just simply goes to show that HHDL is definitely making Dorje Shugden famous and embraced by the world and well by the biggest super power of nations today - China. Otherwise why allow and say ok to practising Dorje Shugden to a Chinese. And why the sudden green light to go ahead and continue practise to the Tibetan guy? It all does not make any sense except for those facts we've been debating and believing. H.H Trijang Rinpoche's forewarn us not to take sides from HHDL nor Dorje Shugden becomes a light for we can see clearly why now.
Thanks for this very interesting insightful info. There is much hope. Lift the ban!
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Thank you Namdrol, it is indeed a good hearsay!
We cant confirm this but looking at how things unfold, it is highly possible that Dalai Lama said as what Billy Feng has reported.
Dalai Lama has shown a much more relaxed attitude towards Shugden in one of his talk early this year in India, he did not bash it hard on the ban but just mentioned that there seemed to be more and more people practising Dorje Shugden especially in Asia.
Anyway, I rejoice in this news and may there be more like this! May the ban be lifted one day!!!
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Interesting. :)
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I don't think this is hearsay. I think that this is the time that HHDL is starting to relax against the ban, in preparation for the ban to be lifted. In due time, there will be more and more people who will report that the Dalai Lama is starting to allow Dorje Shugden practitioners to his teachings, and also encourage people to even do his practice in private audiences. When that happens, the ban will dissolve on its own accord.
This is more proof that HHDL was never against Dorje Shugden but the ban was actually for a different purpose and HHDL did not do it because of his grudge with Dorje Shugden. A lot of people do not realize that despite the ban HHDL has not really been serious in going against Dorje Shugden although he publicly asked them to stop practicing but he keeps the emanations of Dorje Shugden around him and close to him as well.
I can only imagine the amount of shock and disbelief that the really anti Dorje Shugden clique realizes that they have been accumulating huge amounts of negative karma when the ban is lifted and that they wish they have not do what they did and to not just believe in hearsay without much investigation beforehand as doing so does have disastrous results. Then they will realize how stupid they were and regret their actions but then it will be too late.
However it is, this is a very interesting development in the process of the ban and it goes to show that nothing is what they seem, and that taking things only on their face value and doing things just to get into the correct political camp has its consequences.
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If this is true its a positive sign :)
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This "hearsay" I would like to believe and I always feel that the Dalai Lama is has a bigger picture in mind. He may openly "ban" the practice but in private it may be very different. I rejoice if it is true.
In time to come, he may slowly "lift" the ban until a day it will be officially lifted.
What we can do is encourage as many people to practice the protector and create the condition for the ban to be lifted. Lets' make the Dalai Lama's work easier.
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Thank you for the good news! There is HOPE after all and behind every cloud, there IS silver lining !!! Hurray!
I have believe HHDL has a grand plan for spread DS practise far and wide.. why would he ban the practice while it was the practice that his tutors held dear? and why would he allow Trijiang Rinpoche to continue practice while he issued ban to the rest of the Buddhist community ?
I am so looking forward to the day the ban is finally lifted! So many more people will be blessed by the mighty protector once it is practiced openly.
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Thank you for the good news! There is HOPE after all and behind every cloud, there IS silver lining !!! Hurray!
I have believe HHDL has a grand plan for spread DS practise far and wide.. why would he ban the practice while it was the practice that his tutors held dear? and why would he allow Trijiang Rinpoche to continue practice while he issued ban to the rest of the Buddhist community ?
I am so looking forward to the day the ban is finally lifted! So many more people will be blessed by the mighty protector once it is practiced openly.
Dorje Shugden will spread far and wide. As a human saint's name spreads far and wide as a result of his or her deeds, what more can be said of a divine being that has done so much for the Dharma in his previous incarnations? One just needs to look at the deeds that Dorje Shugden's previous incarnations have done and what his form as a Dharma protector has done and can do to protect the teachings of Lama Tsongkhapa as well as protect and provide for sincere practitioners at this time.
With such huge amount of good deeds, what can stop Dorje Shugden? I do not think anything much will stop Dorje Shugden from advancing and helping infinite amounts of sentient beings. It was him that saved the Dalai Lama from the Chinese invasion. It was also him who recognized Lama Zopa. And it was also him who has vowed to protect Gelugpa and look at how Gelugpa has grown since!
Before we hire or accept someone, we will need to check their credentials and will only accept those with the best credentials. Should it not be the same with a Dharma protector? His past incarnations and also the results of his works speak volumes of his capabilities and his true nature. Is there anything else to debate upon? I don't think so. After learning so much about Dorje Shudgden's true nature and credentials it can be quite hard to say no to him.
The ban can only slow down the spread of Dorje Shugden, if not increase and spread it even further. There is no way that such a powerful Dharma protector can be stopped by just a measly ban, unless he is laying low for a bigger reason and to allow the Dalai Lama to "pin" him down…perhaps in due time we will be able to see the true intentions of the ban.
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This is indeed a good hearsay and a good sign that HHDL is slowly relaxing the ban. I always believe that HHDL has a bigger picture in mind with the ban. If not, why should he tell the Chinese and Tibetan guy that they should continue Shugden practice. Will we be able to hear more comments like this from others in the near future? If we do then there is much hope that the ban will be lifted. So many people will benefit from the lifting of the ban and be blessed by Dorje Shugden.
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Whether is it hearsay or real, I would not surprise Dalai Lama encourage anyone to continue, as an emanation of Compassion, will Dalai Lama hurt someone because of his own desire? I don’t think so.
In this ban, I’ve seen how Dorje Shugden Practitioner grows stronger:
Developed strong faith in Dorje Shugden, they never abandon Dorje Shugden’s practice even being pushed to the edge.
Developed forgiveness, they forgive people who hurt them.
Developed patient, they patiently wait for the day the ban lifted and not fight back.
Developed Kindness, besides facing the harsh situation like this, they never forget to care for the people around.
So many qualities that these practitioners are having now, is Dalai Lama really banning this practice or encouraging this practice? I’m sure everyone will have your answer.
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This is the best hearsay EVER! If this is really what it seems then I guess the ban will be lifted very soon. How auspicious! Since Lord Dorje Shugden is a Buddha, He cannot be silenced nor defeated by anyone including the HHDL! The truth will prevail! If HHDL can say this to these group of people whom He don't know, imagine what have He been telling practitioners who are closer to Him. Also imagine when the ban is lifted and China goes full force, how many more people will benefit from it? Not including the rest of the world yet! Hooray! Can't wait for the day when ALL IS WELL!
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Outwardly as what we see, Dalai Lama initiated the ban, Lama Zopa stopped his practice, and Samdhong Rinpoche, an enmanation of Dorje Shugden himself, carried out his duties for Dalai Lama to implement the ban during the time he was the kolan tripa of CTA.
Somtimes I just wonder what Dalai Lama, Lama Zopa, or Samdhong Rinpoche are thinking inside, if everything is done for this GRAND picture for the spread of DS practice far and wide, they must be happily giggling inside now.
Who knows what these wisdom beings see behind all our negative karma, all our delusions and all of our obstacles before many more could have the merits to receive the blessings of Dorje Shugden.
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If this story is NOT hearsay, then for those who hate the Dalai Lama because of the ban – please try to lessen the animosity towards the Dalai Lama.
Regardless whether this is hearsay or not, I think this news should encourage ALL of us Dorje Shugden practitioners to be in harmony and work together as Buddhists for the lifting of the ban and the spreading of Dorje Shugden practice.
Why do we want to lift the ban after all? For myself, I’m in England, where I can have a Satanic séance in the middle of Hyde Park if I want to. There is full freedom of religion here. However, despite this superficial freedom of religion in the west, there is a thinly (and sometimes not so thinly) veiled animosity when I openly tell other Buddhists that my protector is Dorje Shugden. All because of the ban.
I am hoping that when the ban is lifted, then some of the people I meet – from FPMT and other schools – will not look at me as a leper. I am also fighting for the lifting of the ban also for the monks in the monasteries who have been suppressed. I’m hoping that when the ban is lifted, then all Tibetan children can go to school and those from Dorje Shugden families will no longer be ostracised.
I also want the ban to be lifted so many more people all around the world can freely propitiate this powerful Dharma Protector who is so suitable for our time.
Let’s do what we can now – via distributing brochures, sending letters, supporting Dorje Shugden monasteries, supporting this website, supporting each other etc. so that we can create more causes for the ban to be lifted faster!
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If this is true, then it is good news that we can rejoice and that the ban will be lifted soon enough.
Why would the Dalai Lama do this since he was quite adamant previously in the ban? Maybe it is because he is no longer the head of the CTA and he does not have to answer to why he can't get Tibetan Independence soon enough. Cos all this time, the reason was given that Dorje Shugden practitioners are the ones hindering the independence. He now has Dr. Lobsang Sangey to fight for Tibetan Autonomy instead and that is why he can relax his stand on Dorje Shugden practice. This is my take on this "hearsay"
Like what Wisdom Being said, we can do more to help in lifting the ban sooner since there are signs from the Dalai Lama is relaxing the ban. By distributing brochures, sending letters...etc, a collective positive merit bank created from these activities to lift the ban sooner!
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From what it looks like, it appears that HHDL does not want to give up the practice. It is more as if he was forced into implementing the ban and that he is doing it half heartedly only to please someone. So, when the people he needs to act in front are not there, he gives advice that that promotes Dorje Shugden. After all, the Dalai Lama being defied, killed and words put into his mouth is nothing new.
Why should we take things only on the surface level? Just because someone says something that is bad outwardly but in reality it means the opposite what should we take as the real meaning of the words? Should we still be oblivious and take the outward meaning and ignore the inner meaning because the outer one is more obvious and so that people can see our devotion?
By doing more and more brochures, distribution, activity and sharing of Dorje Shugden with the people, we can lift the ban sooner because it will show HHDL and the people against Dorje Shudgen that Dorje Shugden does not harm but he benefits. And that Dorje Shugden is unstoppable at all as he really does have a lot of merits from his previous life. To stop him is to stop one's own potential of growth.
Hopefully with the flurry of pro Dorje Shugden activity that this website has generated, it will continue to serve as proof for HHDL to not ban the practice and lift the ban. HHDL will have an excuse and will have something to show his people that banning Dorje Shugden is futile and a waste of efforts.
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I know this is just hearsay and there is no way to prove this, but just want to post this up for information sake.
A person called Billy Feng posted in a Chinese forum ([url]http://bbs.tibetcul.com/read.php?tid=126782&page=7[/url] ([url]http://bbs.tibetcul.com/read.php?tid=126782&page=7[/url])) that he is a Dorje Shugden practitioner and he took part in Dalai Lama's Kalachakra initiation, and his group of friends that went along are from all four sects and they knew that he practises Shugden but they are fine with it because they know that it is just a political issue, and he personally received blessing from the Dalai Lama and the Dalai Lama did not ask him to stop Shugden practise. And another Tibetan friend that went along had a private audience with the Dalai Lama and consulted the Dalai Lama about Shugden, the Dalai Lama replied that he should continue his Shugden practise.
from: [url]http://bbs.tibetcul.com/read.php?tid=126782&page=7[/url] ([url]http://bbs.tibetcul.com/read.php?tid=126782&page=7[/url]), see attached pic for the post in chinese.
If I was that person who had audience with the Dalai Lama, I would respectfully ask him when can he dissolve the ban on Dorje Shugden. That would be the golden question. I am happy that the Dalai Lama is not really against Dorje Shugden as we already know on this forum but I think it is more important to know when the Dalai Lama is going to remove the ban.
Everyone has suffered so much for Dorje Shugden to make it grow big. So when can everyone cry, make up and all go to puja together. When can we go to His Holiness' Kalachakra teachings and truly receive his blessings? Those would be the burning questions in my mind and many other Dorje Shugden practitioners. Nonetheless, the very fact that His Holiness have said this shows that the time is near. That's what I think.
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If this is not hearsay, it would be very good news! I always respect his holiness and I just find it not logical at all for him to ban Dorje Shugden practice with reasons such as it will shorten his life. How would a Chenrezig’s life be shorted by spirit? Therefore, I always believe that he is for a bigger reason and bigger picture. This post has again strengthened my belief.
Strongly agreed with Wisdom Being that we should do more to help. Let’s create more awareness by distributing brochures, actively posting in forum and social media, sending letters etc and create more causes for the ban to be lifted ASAP!
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It is a sign of the times that the tide is changing in favour of Dorje Shugden. The Dalai Lama used to recognise people who were in the audience of his teachings and asked them to leave. The Dalai Lama being omniscient would be able to know who is doing whatever practice and there is no way he would not know who is in the audience of his teachings.
Besides the last Kalachakra teachings whereby the Dalai Lama mentions about Dorje Shugden the frequency of the Dalai Lama mentioning is getting more scarce compared to the year before and it has been a downward trend since. So the signs are promising for the ban to lift.
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It is a sign of the times that the tide is changing in favour of Dorje Shugden. The Dalai Lama used to recognise people who were in the audience of his teachings and asked them to leave. The Dalai Lama being omniscient would be able to know who is doing whatever practice and there is no way he would not know who is in the audience of his teachings.
Besides the last Kalachakra teachings whereby the Dalai Lama mentions about Dorje Shugden the frequency of the Dalai Lama mentioning is getting more scarce compared to the year before and it has been a downward trend since. So the signs are promising for the ban to lift.
Yes, I’m sure Dalai Lama is now going towards the direction of lifting the ban already, that’s why recently his tone towards Dorje Shugden practice is going softer and softer.
There are many debate earlier on whether Dalai Lama banning Dorje Shugden is because he is a demon or promoting him through the ban, there has been no conclusion, because the main person in game that has not spoken yet, so I’m pretty sure that very soon, we will know what is Dalai Lama’s intention. Result is always the best answer.
If people who are observant and with an open mind, if they are really a Dharma practitioner, they will be able to notice this, Dorje Shugden practitioner meant no harm and Dorje Shugden himself are no devil.
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True or not, but if news like this is circulating around, it could be the very fact that people are more relax about the ban not just His Holiness himself. After all, who can abandon a practice given by their own guru? If this is true, His Holiness definitely is taking another approach to the matter. It is so much easier for His Holiness to make a statement about religious freedom and it is OKAY to practice Dorje Shugden, afterall for so long, Dorje Shugden has not disrupt Buddhism has he?
On the other note, due the heavy negative of the people who abandoned practice and go against guru devotion; it is the very time they repair their samaya by stopping putting the practice down in directly their very guru who gave them the practice. Because of the ban, it is also the fact that Dorje Shugden practitioners have always been united and in harmony, together accumulate enough merits for the ban to be lifted so Buddha dharma can spread. I agree that it is not our time to relax and be happy about but instead, we should do more practice and spread the practice until the ban is fully lifted. We need the merits.
Congrats to Shugden practitioners, it seems like the sky is clearing very soon!
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I doubt this hearsay is true. Come on. HHDL has a hidden agenda for the betterment of mankind's spirituality but how can he openly tell the people in his audience room to continue practising Dorje Shugden. There are so many other people in the audience room from HH's ladrang and God knows who else is there. Furthermore, there are other people there from different lineages.
It's too public to make such a statement. If this is true, it's as good as publicly lifting the ban of Shugden practice!
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Regardless true or not true, there would not be smoke without a fire smouldering some where.
It is a known fact that HHDL's strong stance against DS practice has mellowed nowadays, it is not as strong as the previous years. HHDL also mentioned that 'it is choice whether they want to continue with their DS practice', isn't this a good indication.
In the samsaric world, there are people working under cover in order to get the criminals to justice. It could also be the case of this incident to the lifting of the ban.
May the ban be lifted in the very near future.
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Everyone has suffered so much for Dorje Shugden to make it grow big. So when can everyone cry, make up and all go to puja together. When can we go to His Holiness' Kalachakra teachings and truly receive his blessings? Those would be the burning questions in my mind and many other Dorje Shugden practitioners. Nonetheless, the very fact that His Holiness have said this shows that the time is near. That's what I think.
Yeah ! I like what Big Uncle said above , let us all just forgive and forget and just move on already. We all just want to practice our beloved protector practice and continue to receive his blessings.
Whether true or not the hearsay , does not change the fact that many sincere and innocent non tibetian practitioners like myself would dream of asking HHDL himself about this ban. Many many more like that Chinese guy would continue to spread the wonderful practice of Lord Dorje Shugden and would indigantly continue to question the ban. Even if that entire meeting with HHDL was made up, it proves one thing : The practice is spreading all over and people are asking why not ?
If true we should all rejoice and step up our efforts in spreading the practice of Lord Dorje Shugden even more. If more and more practitioners are going to get blessings from HHDL , then we will probably be blogging about the lifting of the ban real soon ! I would personally love to see and hear HHDL lift the ban in his famously charismatic and Tongue in cheek way ! Can you imagine him chuckling away at how silly we all were in reacting one way or the other over the entire controversy that was a fiasco / puppet show.
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Whether or not this is really true, this is for sure: the Dalai Lama has changed his tone and angle significantly when speaking of Dorje Shugden.
Consider his tone when he first started speaking of the Shugden issue, chastising monks and abbots of monasteries and threatening to dispel monks who insisted on practising Shugden:
! Video not found (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YD4XMtbY_A#)
And then, later, his more relaxed tone - almost joking - during the recent teachings in Bodhgaya earlier this year. Here, he tells the audience that it is up to them what they choose to do and follow. If anyone didn't know any better, they might even be led to think that he spoke in quite a democratic tone, "allowing" people to practice as they chose.
His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama Kalop at 32th Kalachakra, BodhGaya (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inZslkmx03c#ws)
So the angles are changing. From an outright ban on the practice, telling people they MUST NOT follow the practice and MUST BE expelled if they did, he now speaks about it as a "choice", a "freedom". We know, of course, that this is still not the case. Monks are still at the risk of being thrown out of their monasteries and Shugdenpas still strictly cannot associate with non-Shugdenpas... but at least the times are changing. There could well come a time when the choice to practice Shugden far outweighs the choice to give up the practice, and by then, we hope, implementation of the ban will carry absolutely no weight anymore.
Times are changing - i feel it!
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This is great to hear, I honestly don't see a reason as to why the Dalai Lama would discourage the practice, if he was wanting to help the masses. I hope that more stories of this kind make it out into the public, as this will surely question the ban. May more of these stories exist, and more people make it public that the Dalai Lama supports the Dorje Shugden practice.
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There are many things that do make me think: how did they let Shugden practitioners slip into HHDL's teachings? How does one check whether or not someone else is a Dorje Shugden practitioner or not? If they cannot determine if someone is a Dorje Shugden practitioner or not, then why not just allow everyone? They can put a sign there but any Dorje Shugden practitioner could just keep quiet or lie their way in and nobody would know. I'd do that and then later when I meet HHDL, announce it loudly just to show them how pretentious the sign on the outside is.