dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ensapa on March 30, 2012, 06:12:38 PM
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New Delhi, March 29: The president of the largest Tibetan pro-independence group in exile, Tibetan Youth Congress, has been "banned entry" into India barely a few hours after Chinese President Hu Jintao was received with full state honours in New Delhi.
In an late night release, TYC said that Tsewang Rigzin was banned entry "just minutes" after arriving at the Indira Gandhi International Airport in New Delhi, India at 11:09 pm (Indian time)on March 28. He was flying in from the United States.
"Tsewang Rigzin was rounded up by Indian immigration officers just after alighting from his plane from the United States to rejoin his office," the release said. "He was told that his “banned entry” orders came directly from the Government of India."
Rigzin, who is an American national, has been serving as President of TYC for the second consecutive term with all "necessary documents" and was returning to India after organising a month-long “Indefinite Fast for Tibet” in front of the United Nations office in New York.
“TYC deems this action as overly cautious. This repetitive appeasement policy towards China has failed consistently," Dhondup Lhadar, Vice-President, TYC said.
"India needs to be more assertive when dealing with China and we believe that it is high time that India review its policy vis a vis China. It is unfortunate that India still fails to see the benefits of an independent Tibet”, asserted Lhadar.
Following the death of Jamphel Yeshi, the Tibetan youth who set his body on fire on March 26, Indian police has taken strict security measures, sealing Tibetan residential areas in the capital and carrying out random arrests of Tibetans.
I find this piece of news very interesting. Mainly because it is a very strong reminder that the CTA resides on Indian soil and that they cannot do what they wish. It is basically India's warning to them to not forget that fact. If the Indian govt finds the banning of Dorje Shugden and the discrimination against the practitioners of Dorje Shugden illegal, CTA will get into trouble. And that will be interesting to watch indeed.
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Hey Ensapa,
Thanks for being such a regular forum poster. Love to read your thoughts and postings.
It is really interesting that the Indian government acted this way. I think the CTA should sit up and realize what's going on here. First of all, the Tibetan people have come to India and receive so much kindness from the Indian government. They have a place to stay and many Tibetans have even prospered on Indian soil while many of their Indian friends live in poverty.
What have the Tibetans done for the country that have been so kind to them? They take and take and now, they even demand independence from China and hurt Sino-Indian relations. They don't realize what kind of position they have placed upon the Indian government for a problem the Indians are not involved in. I don't think the Indians will care so much about the Dorje Shugden issue but I think the Indians will eventually be pushed to dissolve CTA and demand the Tibetans to either leave the country or 'naturalize' and become Indian citizens.
By that time, it would be too late for CTA and no other country will tolerate the operations of their make-believe government. So, if I was CTA, I would think ahead and make sure I make India really happy and find alternative ways to win independence like uniting the people and dissolving the silly ban on Dorje Shugden.
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The Tibetans have brought Buddhism back to the country of it's origin-India. Tibetans have given India a conscience to think deeper via HHDL peace movements. Tibetans have given India to honour to host one of the greatest spiritual thinkers of modern times HHDL. The contributions seem simple but they are huge.
After there are no living great spiritual personalities left in India besides HHDL.
Well finally got back to Dharamsala to attend classes at the Library. Internet's been unstable for the last 8 days here in Dharamsala. Couldn't really get online. But it seems to be working ok now again. Nepal was interesting. Met lots of people. Gonna keep in contact with a few. The Nyingma temples which housed Dorje Drolod stepping on spirit-Shugden were a great eye-opener. When I told a few Tibetans here, they gave a thumbs up.
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The Nyingma temples which housed Dorje Drolod stepping on spirit-Shugden were a great eye-opener. When I told a few Tibetans here, they gave a thumbs up.
Yeah, long live non-sectarianism, eh?
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Hey Ensapa,
Thanks for being such a regular forum poster. Love to read your thoughts and postings.
It is really interesting that the Indian government acted this way. I think the CTA should sit up and realize what's going on here. First of all, the Tibetan people have come to India and receive so much kindness from the Indian government. They have a place to stay and many Tibetans have even prospered on Indian soil while many of their Indian friends live in poverty.
What have the Tibetans done for the country that have been so kind to them? They take and take and now, they even demand independence from China and hurt Sino-Indian relations. They don't realize what kind of position they have placed upon the Indian government for a problem the Indians are not involved in. I don't think the Indians will care so much about the Dorje Shugden issue but I think the Indians will eventually be pushed to dissolve CTA and demand the Tibetans to either leave the country or 'naturalize' and become Indian citizens.
By that time, it would be too late for CTA and no other country will tolerate the operations of their make-believe government. So, if I was CTA, I would think ahead and make sure I make India really happy and find alternative ways to win independence like uniting the people and dissolving the silly ban on Dorje Shugden.
The sooner the Tibetans realise they are a thorn in the Indian governments side, the sooner theyll calm down. All this protesting and wasting police resources...why not just chill the fuck out, and make themselves useful, contributing members to Indian society, when their host country has so many vast problems as it is?
What are you lot going to do if you go back to Tibet? How many spoilt younger generation Tibetans are going to be able to hack the harsh living conditions of the old Tibet theyve never met, but apparently long for? How many of the older generation of Tibetans clinging on to the old Tibet will be in shock and not be able to function if they return?
Sorry but if you have the Dalai Lama who is all-powerful, a super PR machine, and someone who all nations love, and he STILL cant get independence, is there any hope for the Tibetans after His Holiness passes away? Wake up and smell the coffee people!
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India has been a very graceful host to Tibetans who are on exile. They have provided them with land and the freedom to practice religion, travel...etc. The Indians promote peace and I don't think that they would want to create any conflict with their neighbour, China. I do not think the Indians would want to offend the head of China as China is a superpower now. To them, it may be worth the sacrifice of the TYC President entry into India to please China. After all, they have accommodated the Tibetans for half a century.
Does this mean that India is getting irritated with the Tibetans who always protest and create disharmony?
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The CTA and the entire bandwagon of Tibetans living in exile needs to understand that they have long been spiritual loving people and know nuts about politics. For a country so much immersed in the conduct of merit making and achieving spiritual heights, how can they possibly give themselves a stance in a hosting country?
The Tibetans have long been peace loving people from their understanding of Karma and Buddhism, why has it been such a drastic change in recent years that even the fundamental law of Karma is overlooked at times when riots and political activities are being done? it really doesn't make sense to learn something new and achieve no result in the end. Why can't tibetans harness their strength in Buddhism (whichever schools or denominations they come from) and make the best out of it for humanity?
Wouldn't life be a huge wonder?
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Without knowing it, the Tibetans just keep right on shooting themselves in the foot.
They constantly make accusations against Dorje Shugden practitioners for being Chinese spies, taking Chinese money and being traitors to the Tibetan cause. Actually, they don't care about this - for many of them, this isn't even an issue within the DS debate!!! But the accusations launched against these Tibetans have been very damaging and caused a huge amount of conflict, ostracism and pain in a large community within themselves.
Now, karma catches up with them. Their own host country is banning them entry, for want of appeasing China. I'd say the Tibetans and the CTA have added to this paranoia, claiming that their own Tibetan community are spies, taking money and causing trouble with Chinese support. If the Indians are now paranoid and worried about what Tibetans will do to stir up the Chinese... well, the Tibetans themselves have certainly fanned the fire.
They spend all their efforts on such small non-existent issues, making them into big issues. In the meantime, their people are being split apart, and their welfare and policies lag behind every other country in the world. Their own people lack good education opportunities, they deny their own people medical welfare and civil rights because of the DS issue... but they're launching ammunition and accusations against giants like China. And stirring up suspicion, unrest and unease within their host country, another giant India.
Such foolishess. They could at least have learned how to play their cards right by now.
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The CTA and the entire bandwagon of Tibetans living in exile needs to understand that they have long been spiritual loving people and know nuts about politics. For a country so much immersed in the conduct of merit making and achieving spiritual heights, how can they possibly give themselves a stance in a hosting country?
The Tibetans have long been peace loving people from their understanding of Karma and Buddhism, why has it been such a drastic change in recent years that even the fundamental law of Karma is overlooked at times when riots and political activities are being done? it really doesn't make sense to learn something new and achieve no result in the end. Why can't tibetans harness their strength in Buddhism (whichever schools or denominations they come from) and make the best out of it for humanity?
Wouldn't life be a huge wonder?
This is so TRUE! Let us all put the politics aside and think... WHAT IS TIBET really famous for? What does the world equates with when the hear about Tibet? The Dalai Lama of course which is equal to saying Buddhism.
And what is Buddhism? If I was not Buddhist I would think that it is about peace, compassion, meditation, loving kindness... an intangible value is what HHDL has created for Tibet and Tibetans and in the world's eyes... these seem to be like so until the silly Ban came along and well, all that peace, compassion and kindness went out the window. Which makes the world to start to re-evaluate and think.... now there are many mix thoughts. Tibetans are starting to look not so "Buddhist". So after HHDL is gone, sorry to say, I wonder how Dr. Lobsang will continue and I wonder which aspect will he take on to the world? Democracy, Humanity? Spiritual?
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To be honest, i find that the CTA has really been ungrateful to the Indian government all along. They only give the indian government problems and troubles by constantly trying to stand out from india due to the insecurity of their own culture, which is very beautiful and rich, but they should really have more faith in their own culture rather than keeping even those traditions that are harmful.
By making hateful statements against the Chinese, they forget that they own a huge part of their culture to the Chinese - Tibetan food is very heavily influenced by the Chinese. The introduction of princess Wencheng to Tibet also helped refined the Tibetan mannerisms and culture -- so the Tibetans actually own a lot to the Chinese. It was the Qing troops that helped Tibet defend against the turkish invaders. Even most of the money that the Ganden Phodrang had was actually offered by the Chinese emperors.
For the Tibetans to express such ungratefulness towards China after so much they have taken from them, the more nonsense they pull out from their arse, the further away they are from the cause of having a free tibet. They just sound like really bitter people when they keep pressing on for the cause of a free tibet…and making things worse and worse for the people in there.
The more CTA supports the immolations indirectly by speaking highly of it, the more people in Tibet will immolate themselves, thinking that it will help free Tibet but in reality, it will only cause China to tighten its grip on tibet and cause more suffering to the people. Maybe CTA should be more respectful to their host instead of causing them even more potential trouble?
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The Nyingma temples which housed Dorje Drolod stepping on spirit-Shugden were a great eye-opener. When I told a few Tibetans here, they gave a thumbs up.
Yeah, long live non-sectarianism, eh?
Nyingmas are not depicting spirit Shugden stepped on thinking he is a Gelug protector but because he is not a protector at all, but a evil spirit. Shugden does not represent the Gelug school whatsoever. This has nothing to do with sectarianism. It is protection against a type of spirit. Look at all the beings Dukkar or Yamantaka step on. Yamantaka steps on Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Is Yamantaka against Hinduism? If they depict Tsongkapa beings stepped, then c'mon man, you have a case. Right. LOL. ;)
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Nyingmas are not depicting spirit Shugden stepped on thinking he is a Gelug protector but because he is not a protector at all, but a evil spirit. Shugden does not represent the Gelug school whatsoever. This has nothing to do with sectarianism. It is protection against a type of spirit. Look at all the beings Dukkar or Yamantaka step on. Yamantaka steps on Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Is Yamantaka against Hinduism? If they depict Tsongkapa beings stepped, then c'mon man, you have a case. Right. LOL. ;)
They are effectively depict Tsongkhapa being stepped on as it is taught by all our Venerable Gelugpa Lineage Gurus that Je Tsongkhapa and Dorje Shugden are the same mental continuum. Dorje Shugden is nothing other than Tsongkhapa appearing as a Protector to protect the Ganden tradition. Dorje Shugden is thus the very heart of the Ganden tradition and it is mainly due to his activity that Je Rinpoche's tradition is maintained in this world.
I have nothing against those those who depict Dorje Drolo in this way, it's simply confusion, hardly a rare thing in Kali Yuga ;D
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I always have this perception, political decision should not be mixed with religion matters. Secular is secular, same applies to this situation. It is sad to see India being caught into this situation. It could be a lot worse but still CTA and/or HHDL should not have any whatsoever stance into regarding this issue. It is not their own soil anyways to say the least so they have no say in this.
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The Nyingma temples which housed Dorje Drolod stepping on spirit-Shugden were a great eye-opener. When I told a few Tibetans here, they gave a thumbs up.
Yeah, long live non-sectarianism, eh?
Nyingmas are not depicting spirit Shugden stepped on thinking he is a Gelug protector but because he is not a protector at all, but a evil spirit. Shugden does not represent the Gelug school whatsoever. This has nothing to do with sectarianism. It is protection against a type of spirit. Look at all the beings Dukkar or Yamantaka step on. Yamantaka steps on Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Is Yamantaka against Hinduism? If they depict Tsongkapa beings stepped, then c'mon man, you have a case. Right. LOL. ;)
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Just by making a statue depicting dorje drolod victory over Dorje Shugden means nothing. This is same as showing a FICTIONAL video in where a NYingma Lama winning over Geluk Geshe in DEBATE. 8)
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Where would the Tibetans be if not for India who received them and gave them a place to stay during their exile from Tibet. They were even given the freedom to practice their own religion. And now they are creating so much problems and troubles for India with the protest and self-immolation.
Why should India need to be more assertive when dealing with China as asserted by Lhadar. They don't need to. Sorry to say but I don't think India would want to offend China and I think the Indian Government did the right thing to ban YTC President from entry in order to please China.
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Where would the Tibetans be if not for India who received them and gave them a place to stay during their exile from Tibet. They were even given the freedom to practice their own religion. And now they are creating so much problems and troubles for India with the protest and self-immolation.
Why should India need to be more assertive when dealing with China as asserted by Lhadar. They don't need to. Sorry to say but I don't think India would want to offend China and I think the Indian Government did the right thing to ban YTC President from entry in order to please China.
Personally if you ask me, I dont think that India needs to please china. They are a world superpower and they are pretty much same in level when it comes to their power against the chinese, political wise. So they do not need to fear China as they do not depend on China for anything. Definetely the banning is not really directly connected to China but to India itself.
Of late, there seems to be a lot of cracks that is appearing between the CTA and also the indian government as the CTA has not shown that they are grateful to their host country and has not done anything at all to show their appreciation. They dont really invite any indian ministers to their official events or meetings.
HHDL, on the other hand has taken the initiative to visit a hindu temple and very recently, even a sikh temple to help repair the cracks in the already strained ties between india and CTA. All the years of non appreciation and being mistreated will manifest in the wrath of India against the CTA and HHDL is just trying to patch things up while the CTA shoot themselves in the foot.
On a more secular level, if such a person can create such discord in another country it is no surprise that another country would be scared if they would pull the same drama on their soil and cause a lot of damages. the energies of discord will only produce disharmony and the loss of an ally.
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Where would the Tibetans be if not for India who received them and gave them a place to stay during their exile from Tibet. They were even given the freedom to practice their own religion. And now they are creating so much problems and troubles for India with the protest and self-immolation.
Why should India need to be more assertive when dealing with China as asserted by Lhadar. They don't need to. Sorry to say but I don't think India would want to offend China and I think the Indian Government did the right thing to ban YTC President from entry in order to please China.
Personally if you ask me, I dont think that India needs to please china. They are a world superpower and they are pretty much same in level when it comes to their power against the chinese, political wise. So they do not need to fear China as they do not depend on China for anything. Definetely the banning is not really directly connected to China but to India itself.
Of late, there seems to be a lot of cracks that is appearing between the CTA and also the indian government as the CTA has not shown that they are grateful to their host country and has not done anything at all to show their appreciation. They dont really invite any indian ministers to their official events or meetings.
HHDL, on the other hand has taken the initiative to visit a hindu temple and very recently, even a sikh temple to help repair the cracks in the already strained ties between india and CTA. All the years of non appreciation and being mistreated will manifest in the wrath of India against the CTA and HHDL is just trying to patch things up while the CTA shoot themselves in the foot.
On a more secular level, if such a person can create such discord in another country it is no surprise that another country would be scared if they would pull the same drama on their soil and cause a lot of damages. the energies of discord will only produce disharmony and the loss of an ally.
Dear ensapa,
You are right. India doesn't need to "please"China. It's about maintaining good relations for the benefit of their respective countries. Having a friend is better than having a foe. China is the world's number 2 economy and India number 9 based on their Gross Domestic Product. So it is highly beneficial for India to be friends with China.
Tibet is almost insignificant to India in terms of economic gains. Tibet is a charity cause for India. So if India creates negative sentiments with China because Tibetans continue to "misbehave", then India will lose out economically in a big way.
So CTA and YTC better not put India in a difficult position. If their host country decides to pull out, CTA and YTC better have contingency plans.
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Dear ensapa,
You are right. India doesn't need to "please"China. It's about maintaining good relations for the benefit of their respective countries. Having a friend is better than having a foe. China is the world's number 2 economy and India number 9 based on their Gross Domestic Product. So it is highly beneficial for India to be friends with China.
Tibet is almost insignificant to India in terms of economic gains. Tibet is a charity cause for India. So if India creates negative sentiments with China because Tibetans continue to "misbehave", then India will lose out economically in a big way.
So CTA and YTC better not put India in a difficult position. If their host country decides to pull out, CTA and YTC better have contingency plans.
CTA does not realize that india is doing them a favor. They still think and believe that it is their right that india allows them to stay where they are. This would be another major cause of downfall for CTA. It is hilarious that the CTA follows HHDL's advice to enact the Dorje Shugden ban but does nothing to follow the advice and teachings on how to appreciate or repay the kindness of others.
I have not seen or heard of the CTA doing anything to thank the indian government, nether have I heard of them holding any annual festivals to thank the indian government for offering them the land that they are currently occupying, a place where they can thrive on at least before they get tibet back, which does not seem to be possible at this moment but yet they are not thankful to their host country.
It seems that to the CTA, they are entitled to stay in india for whatever reason they choose to believe even when it was really a kind gesture shown by india to them. This attitude will get them nowhere in the end as they will not be cautious of their actions and be reckless with them instead, for example like this incident of doing protests in another country that will bring political insecurity back home.
So with such ingratitude how will they expect to regain control of tibet and rule effectively? they dont even practice Buddhism even tho they claim to be Buddhist by performing actions that are against the teachings, time and time again. And they claim to be Buddhist? what? I dont understand at all. They have proven themselves to fail at being a buddhist country or a secular country as well. what else is there for them?