dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: WisdomBeing on April 13, 2012, 05:21:30 AM
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I just saw these beautiful pictures of Lama Osel, the reincarnation of the legendary Lama Yeshe... These pictures were taken on 12 April 2012, at the Lama Tsongkhapa Institute in Pomaia, Italy. This is an FPMT centre and you can see Lama Osel giving a talk.
He is in lay clothes, and looks completely different from what you would expect a Lama to look like, but I am glad that he is still close to FPMT, which is the organisation founded by his previous incarnation. It just goes to show that these high lamas are always close to the Dharma, whatever outward appearances they may manifest. Years ago, Lama Osel had given back his robes and said he wanted to lead a secular life but here he is.
There is a theory that Lama Osel had distanced himself because of the Dorje Shugden issue, because Lama Yeshe had been a very strong Dorje Shugden practitioner. The growth of FPMT was also attributed to Dorje Shugden. However, when the ban on DS by the Dalai Lama was imposed, FPMT, which was then lead by Lama Zopa after Lama Yeshe’s passing, towed the party line and gave up Dorje Shugden.
Let’s hope Lama Osel will take over the reins of FPMT as Lama Zopa’s health is not strong. Perhaps Lama Osel can bring Dorje Shugden back to FPMT also.
Thank you to Piero Sirianni for the lovely photos.
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Wow! This is indeed great news! Because of what I read here, I share the same opinion that it was because of the Dorje Shugden issue that Lama Osel had distanced himself. However, now that he is making an appearance again is a good sign and I feel that it is because of the request of the aging Lama Zopa Rinpoche recently when he manifested illness.
I also feel that it is perhaps a sign that there is a shift and that the ban is slowly lifting. That's just a hunch. Whatever it is, FPMT badly needs a new leader and if Lama Osel is to eventually take the place of Lama Zopa Rinpoche, he should start the transition right now. Whether the ban lifts or not, the world would benefit when there's a new Dharma teacher.
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Yes it sure sure looks like Lama Osel is making the necessary connections for the eventual taking over of the reins of FPMT... or at least I hope so!
Imagine once FPMT gets back into the Dorje Shugden fold, it would like the prodigal son returning!!! :P
Jokes aside, I feel as Big Uncle, that Lama Osel reemergence in the "scene" is a positive sign as perhaps there is paradigm shift and the chess pieces on the board are starting to "move"!!!
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Good news!
So nice seeing Lama Osel is returning and giving talk. Although he has been away but still come back and can see that lately pretty much frequent.
If really like what wisdomebeing mentioned that Lama Osel might to take over FPMT due to Lama Zopa health, which is good.
Lama Osel left the monastery at eighteen without having earned a geshe degree, he felt unqualified to teach as the FPMT expected him. He returns to Spain because he had arrived at the point where he is no longer fitted within that like. He couldn’t find himself, because for him it was a lie being there living something that was imposed from outside.
If Lama Osel were to come back permanently to look after the monastery, it’s time for a change in FTMP for good. Lama Osel should continue his believe in Lord Shugden practice.
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What beautiful pictures and awesome news! It is lovely to see Osel connecting back with FPMT and in a very different "look"... and perhaps he will shade light and a different perspective to FPMT students to think broader :)
Sure it will be awesome and much rejoicing news if the DS practice will be revived in FPMT or at least the students can stop schism and condemning others who do practice. That is not very Dharmic and if this could stop it will be a good start to say the least.
Perhaps the DS puja requested by Lama Zopa's assistance to be done for Lama Zopa's health was more for the students then for Lama Zopa to repair their samaya? Whatever the case may be, it is still awesome that we get to see Osel still strong and passionate about Dharma :)
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Thank you for sharing this news. I am glad to see that the FPMT show proper reverence to Lama Osel despite him following his own path for whatever reasons he has which I am certain are valid. I especially like the picture of him on the throne despite being in lay clothes.
I must also admit I am somewhat bemused by the conversations on this thread referring to the return of the FPMT to the Dorje Shugden fold. This would be a fantastic development in the Dorje Shugden saga, but I have never read reports of Lama Osel practicing Shugden. Would anyone have any solid information to support this? I am not writing to criticize but if there is such proof, it would be another great thorn in the side of anti-Shugden faction. I would not be surprised to hear if Lama Osel did indeed uphold Shugden as his protector seeing as how Lama Yeshe was also extremely close to Shugden.
Can anyone enlighten me?
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Lama Osel most likely will not be openly returning to Dorje Shugden in the near future, there are a few things he has to consider:
- relationship with the Dalai Lama, it is not just his personal relationship, it is the whole FPMT's relationship with the Dalai Lama, if FPMT wants to continue to remain in the good books of the Dalai Lama, and if Lama Osel is to take a more prominent role in FPMT, then he cannot be seen returning to practising Dorje Shugden
- relationship with Lama Zopa, since Lama Zopa already openly advised against the practise of Dorje Shugden, if Lama Osel were to be seen returning to Dorje Shugden practise, it will be a severe conflict in the advice among the found gurus of FPMT - Lama Yeshe/Osel and Lama Zopa. Keeping in mind the interest of FPMT members, Lama Osel will not jeopardise that.
Lama Yeshe is very close to Dorje Shugden no doubt, and Lama Osel being his incarnation will naturally be attracted to Dorje Shugden too, and Lama Yeshe being a great practitioner, his incarnation is not likely to give up his heart practise given by his gurus for political reason. So Lama Osel may be practising Dorje Shugden secretly already, or will be taking up Dorje Shugden practise again in the future, because he is a true Dharma practitioner.
But no matter what, he will not be seen practising it openly for now and in the near future for sure.
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It is really great news that Lama Osel is back and is giving talks at an FPMT centre. Though Lama Osel has given back his robes and was in lay clothes, there are still many that attended His talk. This shows that a highly reincarnate Lama has great ability to reach out and spread the Dharma.
I do agree with Wisdom Being that this could be a good sign for the lifting if the ban. This also 'coincides' with the toning down of HHDL's stance against the practice of Dorje Shugden.
May all work together towards the lifting of the ban soon.
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Very nice pictures of Lama Osel, to me whether an attained being is in his robes or layman clothes, that does not really matter, what's more important is who he really is inside.
I think it was through invitation from FPMT that Lama Osel gave such a teaching at this center in Italy. But the fact that Lama Osel accepted and went back to FPMT was really a good news to rejoice. The reason why he left for Spain initially was to distant himself from FPMT.
The turn of the dice could have been a gel of few events that have happened lately, the softer stance of HH Dalai Lama on DS issue, the visit of Lama Osel to Lama Zopa during his sickness, lama Zopa might have asked Lama Osel to connect back or return to FPMT due to his ill health.
Personally I believe Lama Osel is a devoted DS practitioner, becasue if Lama Zopa was once a strong devotee, why wouldn't Lama Osel be? He is in lay clothes and away from FPMT, that says something, isn't it?
I pray for Lama Osel long life and may he continue to trun the wheel of dharma......
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FPMT is one of the biggest Gelug organisations in the world, it is right that it has a strong leader who believes in his own direction and principles. Lama Osel seems so natural in his surrounding and he seems like a very gentle person in the way he conducts himself.
Kopan the seat of FPMT influence came about through the grand practice of Dorje Shugden, that both Lama Osel and Lama Zopa did extensively. How can it be right that they abandon the practice? We dont just abandon something that has helped us to grow right? Thanks WB for sharing beautiful pictures with us.
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Just several technical questions. Again, I am not questioning Lama Osel's mind or his inclination towards Dharma:
- When a monk is disrobed, can he still be called a Lama?
- Is Lama Osel openly practicing DS in this lifetime? There are many lamas that practiced DS in their previous lives but at least did not practice or openly practice in this life. If the rumours are indeed true that he disrobes because he wants to practice DS, why then he does not openly do so? There is nothing stopping him now
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Just several technical questions. Again, I am not questioning Lama Osel's mind or his inclination towards Dharma:
- When a monk is disrobed, can he still be called a Lama?
- Is Lama Osel openly practicing DS in this lifetime? There are many lamas that practiced DS in their previous lives but at least did not practice or openly practice in this life. If the rumours are indeed true that he disrobes because he wants to practice DS, why then he does not openly do so? There is nothing stopping him now
Yes, a Lama does not necessarily need to be a monk. So if a monk gives up the robes (not because he broke the rules and was disgraced) and he held his vows intact before he gives them up and is in line with the recommended qualities that the 50 verses of Guru devotion has outlined, then yes he is still a qualified teacher. There are many lay lamas around such as Gelek Rinpoche who are still very qualified to teach.
We cannot tell if Lama Osel is doing so, but he was sent to Kopan for training, and as of now they have exhibited openly that they are against Dorje Shugden. So even if he was practicing, it would be in secret. Perhaps time will tell if he is, when the ban is lifted or when he decides that enough is enough and speaks up against the ban.
On a related note, if you read the 5th Dalai Lama's biography, it is said that Sangye Gyatso started the war against the wishes of the 5th Dalai Lama and as a result, in his 6th reincarnation HHDL refused to join the monastery and undergo the standard training or live up to anyone's expectations of him during that time. Perhaps the force of forcefully going against the Guru's wishes can cause the Lama to not manifest in the way of a Lama but something else.
If Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche and Lama Osel has not made their practice public, but has remained neutral on this matter, should we not follow the same? Perhaps this is the way that Dorje Shugden practitioners should manifest now for the benefit of the many, so that we do not disturb the minds of those who have samaya with HHDL post ban, but at the same time promote his practice.
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Thank you Wisdom Being for posting these beautiful photo's of Lama Osel and even better to see that he is finding his own way...teaching a little Dharma and best of all happy in himself and what he is doing.
The pix exude a depth of being that his previous incarnation exuded in pictures teaching the dharma :D
Let's hope that a modern lama for modern times manifest teaching the dharma more and more.
Ensapa I agree with your comment about how we can be neutral on the DS issue and maintain private practice. Personally I have had only one occasion for someone to tentatively question me to follow HHDL wishes and even then because I keep my practice immensely private nothing happened I suspect because this person saw the positive aspects of our previous relationship and not follow the dogma of the DS issue.
Sign of the times...
xo
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Thank you for posting these current pictures of Lama Osel. It is a good sign that he went back to the centre.
Lama Osel distanced himself physically from the centre but he stayed close at heart with DS.
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Thank you Wisdom Being for posting these beautiful photo's of Lama Osel and even better to see that he is finding his own way...teaching a little Dharma and best of all happy in himself and what he is doing.
The pix exude a depth of being that his previous incarnation exuded in pictures teaching the dharma :D
Let's hope that a modern lama for modern times manifest teaching the dharma more and more.
Ensapa I agree with your comment about how we can be neutral on the DS issue and maintain private practice. Personally I have had only one occasion for someone to tentatively question me to follow HHDL wishes and even then because I keep my practice immensely private nothing happened I suspect because this person saw the positive aspects of our previous relationship and not follow the dogma of the DS issue.
Sign of the times...
xo
As I have pointed out in my previous post, if the students of a particular Lama go against the will or wishes of their Lama on purpose despite the Lama saying no, then the Lama will not manifest himself the way his students expect him to be in the next life i.e going for monastic training, manifesting as an ordained Lama and then teaching them again.
At this point, even if FPMT unbans Dorje Shugden or does whatever they need to repair their samaya with Lama Yeshe, it is already too late because the karma has already been activated and they will just have to accept that Lama Yeshe will not listen to their expectations and wishes, just as they did not listen to his in this previous reincarnation. It's pure karma.
Perhaps, Lama Yeshe will manifest teaching again when the ban is lifted, or when FPMT and Kopan follows Lama Yeshe's practices again without bowing to political pressure or doing unfortunate acts for themselves i.e politics, witchunts, extolling the imaginary negativities of Dorje Shugden just so that they can align themselves with the Dalai Lama and so on, but thats pretty unlikely to happen.
However it is, FPMT is a container for HHDL's students around the world so Lama Zopa telling his students not to practice Dorje Shugden is understandable, as he needs to protect their minds and samaya with HHDL, but his students going on witchhunts and bad mouthing other centers and trying to be the political authority in the buddhist community of every country they reside in is pretty much not Dharma and not Lama Zopa's instructions.
Can anyone guess what will happen if Lama Zopa passes? The answer is obvious at this point.
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Thank you for sharing this news. I am glad to see that the FPMT show proper reverence to Lama Osel despite him following his own path for whatever reasons he has which I am certain are valid. I especially like the picture of him on the throne despite being in lay clothes.
I must also admit I am somewhat bemused by the conversations on this thread referring to the return of the FPMT to the Dorje Shugden fold. This would be a fantastic development in the Dorje Shugden saga, but I have never read reports of Lama Osel practicing Shugden. Would anyone have any solid information to support this? I am not writing to criticize but if there is such proof, it would be another great thorn in the side of anti-Shugden faction. I would not be surprised to hear if Lama Osel did indeed uphold Shugden as his protector seeing as how Lama Yeshe was also extremely close to Shugden.
Can anyone enlighten me?
I have no clue as to if Lama Osel has received the practice of Dorje Shugden.
But I can imagine that many of Lama Yeshe's disciples must have received the practice from their root Guru: Lama Yeshe. And even if Lama Zopa is asking fro them to stop, they would continue secretly out of Guru devotion to their Root Guru. Thus I do expect that the older students of Lama Yeshe that are still active in FPMT do still practice Dorje Shugden behind closed doors, for that is exactly how I would have done in such situation.
Now if we imagine Lama Osel as having received the practice, he could be joining the group of his old students that do practice secretly, and there would be a conflict with the later comers who have not been receiving the practice and follow the advise of their Root Guru, Lama Zopa who advises not to practice (and therefore I assume does not pass on the practice neither).
But then if Lama Osel has received the practice, then he can pass it on, and the group of DS practitioners in FPMT may grow until it can be practiced openly.
This is a complex situation, there is a lot of "if", and it may take a few years to be resolved.
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Thank you WB for these pictures showing Lama Osel giving a talk at FPMT in Italy. Whatever hopes these pictures may bring along with them, including the hope of Lama Osel taking over the reins of FPMT from Lama Zopa who is currently in frail health, or the hope of him eventually bringing back the practice of Dorje Shugden to FPMT, it is heartening to know that right now Lama Osel is not cutting himself off completely from FPMT.
Indeed, the fact that he is giving a Dharma talk from the throne and the fact that every seat in the room appears to have been taken, augur well for the future of FPMT and Lama Osel.Lama Osel in his lay clothes appears to be speaking with great ease and confidence and rather engagingly too. The audience is very respectful and attentive as well.
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Wow.. if I saw His picture somewhere else, I would have thought He is part of a rock ban or something :)
Yes, FPMT has given up Dorje Shugden since the ban is imposed. Not only that, I heard that they are also putting other centers (who practices Dorje Shugden) down.
I know there are groups who follow HH Dalai Lama's "instruction" to stop practicing Dorje Shugden, but many groups do not put other centers down, and don't openly discriminate Dorje Shugden practitioners. But I heard FPMT put up statements in their events and said that Dorje Shugden practitioners should not join their events.
May be they just want to be politically correct?
If Lama Osel is back, will there be hope?
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Wow.. if I saw His picture somewhere else, I would have thought He is part of a rock ban or something :)
Yes, FPMT has given up Dorje Shugden since the ban is imposed. Not only that, I heard that they are also putting other centers (who practices Dorje Shugden) down.
I know there are groups who follow HH Dalai Lama's "instruction" to stop practicing Dorje Shugden, but many groups do not put other centers down, and don't openly discriminate Dorje Shugden practitioners. But I heard FPMT put up statements in their events and said that Dorje Shugden practitioners should not join their events.
May be they just want to be politically correct?
If Lama Osel is back, will there be hope?
Based on Lama Osel's reactions and actions, it is for sure that even if he has not received the practice he still remembers who is his Dharma protector and is very dissapointed with the turn of events that happened after his passing. There are many centers, for example, Jewel Heart who gave up the practice but nobody there criticize or makes a huge deal out of the issue.
Perhaps FPMT members feel so insecure with their own practice that they have the need to put down those who do? But why? They get their politically correct teachers from their politically correct monasteries too, why not focus on them and their teachings instead of having to put down more successful centers around? The need to put down other centers shows nothing more than insecurity.
It is also interesting to note that this phenomenon does not happen on just 1-2 countries that FPMT has set foot on, but all of the centers worldwide is doing something similar. Bad management perhaps, or overzealous administrators who spread the idea to everyone because they want to be politically correct? There is always following the instructions and being overzealous and overdoing things...
Without Dorje Shugden, the Maitreya project will not manifest. This is on top of the disharmony that FPMT centers worldwide has created amongst the Buddhist communities in the country that they reside in. If everyone focuses on that project instead of whatever they are doing now then the project will definitely manifest and Lama Zopa's life will be further extended...but sadly no.
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Meanwhile the NKT goes from strength to strength and so do other groups that maintain Dorje Shugden as their Dharmapala, Look at all the support HHDL gives his monasteries and then look at places like Shar Gaden and Serpom which basically appear over night.
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These are very beautiful pictures and thank you for the lovely sharing. I love Lama Osel very much. I have seen him grown up from a distance. Having read and observed Lama Yeshe's life history, I believe Lama Osel would assume Lama Yeshe's unconventional and skillful method of spreading Dharma to attract the modern and sophisticated people around the world. Given time I am confident he will come back to take over FPMT to preserve the Lama Tsongkhapa lineage. The DS ban will be over soon and FPMT will resume DS practice. What would be the purpose of Lama Tsongkhapa lineage preservation without DS practice?
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Lama Yeshe was an unconventional Dharma master of his time and from the looks of his current incarnation, the trait of non-convention persists ? Lama Yeshe was known as the “Hippie Lama”, which I believe was a method to assimilate and relate as he was one of the pioneers who brought Dharma to the west.
When I saw the images of Lama Osel, I related immediately to Lama Yeshe’s gentle “hippie-ness”. One mind stream that has been gifted the practice of Lama Tsongkapa’s doctrine and protection of Dorje Shugden. Thus, the argument and conclusion that Lama Osel is still close to Dorje Shugden has solid ground. Nevetheless, the most suitable manner in which Dorje Shugden practice will be re-introduced to FPMT remains uncertain.
Relating to what Ensapa mentioned: both Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche and Lama Osel, incarnations of the most revered Dharma masters of their time, have disrobed in honor. Would this mean that the method of turning the wheel of Dharma is changing form? I have heard in a Dharma teaching that the appearance of the 3rd jewel (the sangha community) may change during these degenerate times as Dharma penetrates new domains (where Dharma did not exist) and distractions and attachments are extremely intense. Furthermore, the previously honorable opportunity to become a sangha member has become a phenomenon that is almost shunned in modern society. Perhaps Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche and Lama Osel are compassionately showing the possibility of being lay sanghas to the 21st century dharma seekers. Perhaps being exposed to samsara reduces the distance and barriers with students.
The intricacies of the recent roll out of events are beyond the ignorance of our samsara-deluded minds. Thus, as we work on developing greater understanding and wisdom, may we have the merits to have faith in our Teachers and the 3 jewels to consistently pursue our spiritual journey so that we will remain close to the Dharma until the “storm” is over.
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Great news! It's nice to see Lama Osel returning to FPMT in Italy to give a talk. Great to see him on the throne with so many people attending his talk. From the photo Lama Osel looked so at ease and confident on the throne. With Lama Zopa's frail health , this may be a sign that Lama Osel will make a come back and eventually take the place of Lama Zopa. Will FPMT center resume Dorje Shugden practice if Lama Osel take over the reign of Lama Zopa? So for now, FPMT centres should stop condemning and bad mouthing DS practitioners or they will get a big slap on their face in the near future.
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First, thank you for the pictures. It is always so encouraging and uplifting to see the young tulkus, continuing the legacies and being here among the rest of us who need them so badly.
Secondly, I think it is important to say this: Almost all the replies to this thread talk predominantly about the schism and bad behaviour of FPMT. I think we have to be careful about what we are saying or how we say it. It is wrong to generalise and say that all of FPMT are this way, which can lead to wrong insinuations that Lama Zopa is encouraging this.
Yes, FPMT have given up their practice of Shugden. I hold strong that Lama Zopa himself, as their Spiritual Guide is not publicly seen or has even spoken in a condemning way against Shugden practitioners or Shugden practice. His stance (it seems) is more about respecting the instructions of the Dalai Lama by not doing the practice. But he rarely, if ever, comments about the nature of the practice or practitioners being bad, condemning them or acting in untoward ways towards them.
Yes, there have been many accounts of how FPMT or Kopan members or students have acted in unpleasant ways towards Shugdenpas. But this is never clear whether this kind of behaviour is sanctioned by their teacher and is their "official" stance. I am sure Lama Zopa, being who he is, would never allow such unkindness towards another fellow sentient being, least of all another fellow Dharma practitioner.
There are many reasons for why some Lamas have chosen not to continue the practice openly and publicly, which may not be revealed until a later time. We had a nice surprise didnt we, when we heard Samdhong say not too long ago that he has done everything because of the command of his teacher, Trijang Rinpoche (which would automatically include his denouncements of Shugden practice). This could well be the same for Lama Zopa. We will never know what instructions he may have received from his teachers, which included both Lama Yeshe and also Trijang Rinpoche.
In my humble opinion, whatever obstacles that have arisen for FPMT is not because of Lama Zopa's action or stance towards Shugden practice. As an enlightened Lama, a highly attained tulku, he may well be operating from a base far beyond what we can see now. The obstacles, as in any Dharma institution would be arising from students who are not towing the line with their teacher, in this case Lama Zopa - this includes acting unkindly towards other Shugden practitioners, as some of them are known to have done; or create schism towards and among Shugdenpas. This alone breaks the most basic of refuge vows, so of course obstacles arise.
I hope this is making sense and is clear in some way. I just think it is important to be clear that whatever obstacles may be arising is NOT "Lama Zopa's fault" but the way in which some students may be acting. It is also not a reflection of FPMT being not a good organisation, or any thoughts like that. We must remember that they are one of the largest Tibetan Buddhist organisations in the world and have been important in bringing Dharma to many. Unfortunately, a few bad apples can spoil the whole basket, but as outsiders, we too need to be careful not to fall into a trap to start badmouthing and putting them down.
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From the namtars of the various masters, it is very clear that the result of the students breaking samaya, misinterpreting their Guru's instructions and choosing worldly views over enlightened ones will ALWAYS result in a lost chance or the Guru not manifesting to them, or that they lose their chance for enlightenment. Perhaps these stories are not merely to make us have faith but are actual events that happen?
Take for instance, Rechungpa who had too much pride and thought that he knew better than Milarepa and went to a pilgrimage in India when it was more beneficial for him to actually go to his Guru's residence instead. He lost his chance to gain enlightenment in that lifetime. Naropa broke his promise to Tilopa to not engage in debate, and as a result he could only enter enlightenment during clear light.
So for small transgressions like these such great masters had to lose the opportunity for enlightenment, what about stuffing words into your Guru's mouth and acting in clearly negative ways that transgress all the Dharma texts out there and even plain logic to know that certain actions are not beneficial and are harmful? And then say and claim that it was because the Guru told you to do so? Ridiculous.
So, the current students lose their chance to see their teacher reprising his role but Lama Yeshe and Trijang Rinpoche will find other ways to benefit people, but just not their ex-students because they created obstacles for their teacher to teach them. In the end, the prize for being politically correct is none other than losing your own Guru, possibly forever as broken samaya is extremely hard to repair especially when the student themselves are not aware of it.
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Thank you for the pictures of Lama Osel. I feel that it's a positive sign for Lama Osel to be in FPMT after all these years. No doubt FPMT's broken samaya has caused their Guru to stay away for so long. I'm surprised that no one in FPMT highlighted this to their students. Or have they?
Perhaps Lama Osel's presence in FPMT is like dangling a carrot to his students. If they repair their broken samaya and transform, Lama Osel may return to teach. Otherwise, it's a great lost for FPMT and Lama Osel may do something else to benefit others. Only time will tell.
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Thank you for the pictures of Lama Osel. I feel that it's a positive sign for Lama Osel to be in FPMT after all these years. No doubt FPMT's broken samaya has caused their Guru to stay away for so long. I'm surprised that no one in FPMT highlighted this to their students. Or have they?
Perhaps Lama Osel's presence in FPMT is like dangling a carrot to his students. If they repair their broken samaya and transform, Lama Osel may return to teach. Otherwise, it's a great lost for FPMT and Lama Osel may do something else to benefit others. Only time will tell.
But at this point, does the FPMT students even care about their Lama and Dharma practice anymore? judging on what they are doing, I doubt that their priorities are on Dharma practice, but are on political gains and the 8 worldly concerns because if they are focused on their Dharma practice they would have stopped the political games of trying to be the authoritative Buddhist center in the country.
Its sad because in a way, even when they become the authoritative center in the land and they rake in a lot of students, most of their students wont be able to have any attainments or spiritual progress because nobody seems to be practice the Dharma or focus on their spiritual practice and these people eventually get misled. Most of them leave or end up being disillusioned by Buddhism due to the politics that they display.
This is very damaging to Buddhism as a whole and there is nothing many people can do about it, including Lama Zopa although I have heard that he has personally visited centers who are too political in nature and has been organizing hate campaigns against other centers, and personally remove the president and geshe involved in full view of the committee members...but how many centers can he visit?
Last but not least, I feel that Kopan and FPMT is large enough to go open with their Dorje Shugden practice, not to defy HHDL but because that is their core practice. But because of compassion for HHDL's students worldwide, Lama Zopa followed HHDL's instructions so that these students have a place to go. But unfortunately, some of these students tend to do take advantage of this to damage others...
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FPMT just posted the audio of Lama Osel and Gomo Tulku lending his support...guess what the talk was about?
"Harmony Starts with the Self"
I guess it's always a big topic to go back and forth on the days of FPMT? Lots of what if scenario's for what hasn't happened etc etc...
I for one would hope that Lama Osel's advice moves hearts and minds in the FPMT organisation...with folded hands our own Guru's would never give up on us? I can't imagine that Lama Zopa and Lama Osel could give up on their students or responsibilities? Dharma is finding a modern approach to reach modern people in the west it is understandable that Lama Osel would do this too...so watch this space.
I really enjoyed his talk...may more teachings by Lama Osel manifest in the future :D
xo
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FPMT just posted the audio of Lama Osel and Gomo Tulku lending his support...guess what the talk was about?
"Harmony Starts with the Self"
I guess it's always a big topic to go back and forth on the days of FPMT? Lots of what if scenario's for what hasn't happened etc etc...
I for one would hope that Lama Osel's advice moves hearts and minds in the FPMT organisation...with folded hands our own Guru's would never give up on us? I can't imagine that Lama Zopa and Lama Osel could give up on their students or responsibilities? Dharma is finding a modern approach to reach modern people in the west it is understandable that Lama Osel would do this too...so watch this space.
I really enjoyed his talk...may more teachings by Lama Osel manifest in the future :D
xo
I dont believe that Lama Osel will ever give up on his students. I do believe, however, that him being able to reach out to his students would be hindered by all the negative karma that his students have generated so far especially with regards to Dorje Shugden and their focus on being the most politically correct center in the region, even if it means harming thousands of other buddhists in the way.
Lama Osel will just have to find alternative ways on spreading the Dharma, just not through FPMT anymore but through some other means, perhaps through film or through producing songs with Dharma messages in them. I cannot tell for sure what he is going to do next, but from what we can see so far it seems to be heading to that direction, especially with the collaboration with Gomo Tulku.
At the same time, it seems to be the current trend for tulkus to not go through monastic training but to benefit people as it is by just being around them as their friends or their peers although what exactly is happening, I am not too sure but based on observations on the activities of the other tulkus, it does seems to head that way. Gomo Tulku's rap seems to be targeted at today's teens and his songs do have bits and pieces of Dharma in them.
Perhaps after the ban is lifted, Lama Osel will openly declare that if FPMT wishes for him to return, they should take up the Dorje Shugden practice again and repair whatever damages that they have incurred on other Dorje Shugden practitioners as well as other Dharma centers where FPMT has said negative things against, and re-invite Lama Yeshe's students who have been practicing Dorje Shugden back to the center...
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I see some similarities between HH Trijang Rinpoche and Lama Osel. Both decided to disrobe most likely due to the ban. They are both known to be a strong Dorje Shugden practitioner. Their reason to disrobe mainly because the ban is issued with political motive. If they are still monks, they will be forced to take their stance on this issue which is against their vows. Their act is also to protect their students. if a student does not follow guru's instructions, has negative doubts in one's guru, they will create negative karma and instead of progressing in their spiritual path, they degenerate. Students in Kopan monastery and FMTP have clearly broken their guru samaya when they abandoned the practice given by their guru.
I believe the 'reappearance' of Lama Osel might be a sign that there would be new development on the ban that is in favour of the practitioners. Lama Osel and HH Trijang Rinpoche are great masters, I look fantastic forward to their return.
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I see some similarities between HH Trijang Rinpoche and Lama Osel. Both decided to disrobe most likely due to the ban. They are both known to be a strong Dorje Shugden practitioner. Their reason to disrobe mainly because the ban is issued with political motive. If they are still monks, they will be forced to take their stance on this issue which is against their vows. Their act is also to protect their students. if a student does not follow guru's instructions, has negative doubts in one's guru, they will create negative karma and instead of progressing in their spiritual path, they degenerate. Students in Kopan monastery and FMTP have clearly broken their guru samaya when they abandoned the practice given by their guru.
I believe the 'reappearance' of Lama Osel might be a sign that there would be new development on the ban that is in favour of the practitioners. Lama Osel and HH Trijang Rinpoche are great masters, I look fantastic forward to their return.
Well, Dolce Vita,
I share similar thoughts with the re-emergence of Lama Osel, it could mean that there could be development on the ban. However, there doesn't seem to be any new news with regards to the ban. I rejoice anyway that if there's a new teacher to lead FPMT, the lineage could be spread farther and wider. On the other hand, HH Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche offered his robes back and lives in America, married to a consort because his monastic education and so forth would be interrupted if he didn't swear against Dorje Shugden. And then, on the other hand, the Dorje Shugden movement is looking at him and hoping he would be their head against the Dalai Lama, who's his Guru.
At such a young age, Kyabje Trijang was forced to make a tough decision. He chose to return his vows and head to America. It was a tough decision but he maintained his Samaya and he seemed to be just waiting for the right time in America to emerge. In fact, in recent years, Trijang Rinpoche has emerged and have appeared in certain public events. Perhaps, its another clue that the ban's days are numbered. Its quite early to speculate but the signs are out there and it is all very exciting.
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Lama Osel should get closer to His Holiness Dalai Lama and receive the teachings, lineage, empowerments, transmissions that is required for him to carry on his works.
Since HHDL has recognized him as the authentic incarnation of Lama Yeshe, there must be a reason for this.
I would be happy to see Lama Osel in Dharamsala with us obtaining the precious dharma from HHDL.
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I was wondering. Lama Osel went off the 'wrong track' and left Sera and now hangin' in Ibizia, Spain with his girlfriend. Do you think this could be the result of worshipping Shugden spirit in his previous life?? Just a thought. ???
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Or the opposite could be that the students samaya and negative karma created by not practicing DS another thought? ;) also this is just another example of tulkus in the west manifesting dharma in a different path?
we can agree to disagree on this forum but just because we do not see I to eye. Doesn't mean we can't present both sides and let people decide for themselves than just to follow blindly a point if view.
xo
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I was wondering. Lama Osel went off the 'wrong track' and left Sera and now hangin' in Ibizia, Spain with his girlfriend. Do you think this could be the result of worshipping Shugden spirit in his previous life?? Just a thought. ???
If you take refuge in spirits you end up with a rebirth in a lower realm not with a precious human life. Shows how much you know.
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I was wondering. Lama Osel went off the 'wrong track' and left Sera and now hangin' in Ibizia, Spain with his girlfriend. Do you think this could be the result of worshipping Shugden spirit in his previous life?? Just a thought. ???
Dear Tenzin Gyatso,
According to Tibetan Lamas, they consider Lama Yeshe a highly attained Lama due to the accomplishments of his previous life and the way he passed away. Therefore, his current actions are interpreted to be the result of broken samaya. The broken samaya has made it difficult for Lama Yeshe to manifest the actions of a Lama in order to benefit his former students. What's the broken samaya? The abandonment of Dorje Shugden practice. Perhaps, when the ban is over and the students practice Dorje Shugden again, Lama Osel would be able to manifest as Lama once more.
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I was wondering. Lama Osel went off the 'wrong track' and left Sera and now hangin' in Ibizia, Spain with his girlfriend. Do you think this could be the result of worshipping Shugden spirit in his previous life?? Just a thought. ???
On a side note, it is taught that those who take refuge in a spirit will be reborn as a spirit in their next life, but i see so many Dorje Shugden lamas coming back by the droves. Trijang Rinpoche, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, Lama Osel are just the few who came back and who also joined monasteries and are gathering students. How do you reconcile that? that the sutras are wrong?
Lama Osel unable to manifest as a Lama in this life is because many of his students focused on other things rather than focus on the Dharma and misled as well as created a lot of schism many people who joined centers that did not align to them politically. There are heavy repercussions from all of these and one of them is that it generates the force to push their teacher further and further away from them.
I dont think its the fault of the Lama but rather the fault of the students for joining the center and being his students for the wrong reasons. It is very easy to get caught up in other matters other than the Dharma such as the cultural aspects and political aspects of Buddhism when the motivation for studying it in the first place is wrong. And thus, this is the result that we can observe today.
Also, what is wrong with a Lama who decides to be unconventional in appearance? Perhaps Lama Osel has another group of students or would be students with him that we cannot see for now. The 6th Dalai Lama didint manifest as a traditional Lama but he benefitted many just as well. Perhaps that will happen with Lama Osel but one thing for sure is that unless FPMT cleans up their act, Lama Osel will not go back to teach.