dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: psylotripitaka on September 29, 2014, 08:51:33 PM
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Dear "Survivors",
Involvement in Group Dynamics
With respect to the emotional trauma you have from being involved with spiritual organizations, there are two things happening: the practical conventions of the situation, and your own subjective response to it.
For the sake of true healing I urge you to blame every single experience of suffering on your own self-grasping and seek refuge in emptiness. I mean really concentrate, not just think about it, for that is the whole point of having met the Holy Dharma. If we do not make a firm decision that the meaning of life is realization, we will definitely find it very difficult to use our experiences as fuel for realization, and instead will continuously invest our energy in blaming others. How unfortunate that would be, to get to the end of our life and realize we wasted our precious opportunity being upset. It is time to change our direction.
"It is not only time, it is almost too late" - Heruka Je Pabongkhapa
There really is nothing wrong with communicating our perspectives, disappointments, or needs, but it is also unrealistic to expect that in samsara we will never be let down. If we cannot handle a situation or are confused about how to deal with it on a practical level, we need to separate ourselves from the situation and concentrate primarily on controlling our subjective response! Expecting people to be perfect and always treat us with respect is contrary to the way things function within the samsaric system. If we constantly say 'this is entirely natural in samsara', we'll be less inclined to get upset. Therefore, it is crucial that we develop a realistic and clear distinction between what is going on practically, and what we must take responsibility for in the situation - our response. Looking very carefully and closely at circumstances in our life, we find that the only thing we are ever really harmed by is our own view of what is appearing and that we are the only one's to blame for our emotional turmoil. Taking personal responsibility for our own mind is the first real step towards true healing.
I do not discredit the situations that happened in your involvement with the NKT, but when we boil it down it is really our own subjective perspective that is to blame for our experience, not other people or an organization. By continually thinking about all the things that rubbed us wrong, we victimize ourselves through our own thought processes; thoughts that are clearly not aligned with correct view or correct intention.
This does not mean we have to continually be involved in the group dynamic or stay in a situation, but it is foolish to mentally throw away the whole thing based on a few challenging experiences that we ourselves responded to with delusions. In short, rather than wasting life victimizing yourselves, redirect that energy to genuinely applying the Dharma to destroy your samsara.
The Controversy
I understand where you're coming from and do not belittle your perspectives, and dialogue is good, thank you for sharing. All I wish to say on this subject is this:
A simple difference of opinion about something does not give anyone the right to abuse the other party. Who Dorje Shugden is or is not is really completely irrelevant. There is extensive verifiable and undeniable evidence of the Dalai Lama and his followers abusing human and religious rights of Dorje Shugden practitioners. That people cannot acknowledge this fact is astonishing, especially since it completely contradicts Buddha's advice to 'abandon harming others, be kind to them'.
If you cannot be kind and respect other people's right to have a different practice, and you cannot stop the ostracism and negative behavior towards Dorje Shugden practitioners, you should stop calling yourself a Buddhist.
The protests are not arising from nothing; they are practical attempt to stop abuse.
To me, it is absolutely astonishing that a supposed emanation of the Buddha of Compassion and Master of Logic does not see the contradiction in this situation. And so, the BuddhaDharma is being destroyed from within, all from a simple lack of respect. How sad!
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I'd like to add. It is easy being a spectator but please have empathy for those who practice. NKT Survivors please note.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KZqoJL-D3QA/T4_pd2amVHI/AAAAAAAAKWY/7T75RD--hVg/s400/WRESTLING_DPS_colour.jpg)
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Dear NKT Survivors,
I am an NKT person who does not believe for one nanosecond that most of you ever intended at all to really become part of the NKT, but rather that you are people who wanted to check us out, and finding that we accomdate everyone (everyone/anyone is welcome) I think some of you took advanatage of the fact that the DL's violent fantical followers have sent Shugden lamas like Geshe-la into more or less hiding.
Okay, so you guys come in, and the guru is trying to stay alive to teach and write and help all living beings and the likes of you (at least several of you) definately had to already be decided to make trouble in the NKT.
Okay, so you did, and sometimes you turn the place into a circus. Okay, so, what have you accomplished? NKT survivors, I tell you honestly that before I met people like you who pretended to be really sincerely in the NKT to do our practice but we really there to subvert, that I went from neutral but staying away from the DL to thinking he is the worst Buddhist teacher ever. Look at his students. They are dogmatic, they want to end a practice, and I am sorry who died and put all of you in charge of everything? You do not get to pick what practices other people do. You did open my eyes to how ignorant the followers of the DL really are; I had been spit on by some DL Tibetans (well they missed, but okay they tried) in India. You have made me know the DL people in the west are just as very bad. You do not have a right to come to our centers and pose as legitimate newbies to find out info. You have no right to try to make us listen to the dharma drivel you concoct; I doubt any of you ever weren't with the DL to begin with, but if a few of you really became survivors, then I mean, you REALLY must follow cult mentality to be a survivor. As Psylotripika posts, you have been whining a long time.... so, I think that is obviously because your whole point in investing time was so you could make a big scene afterwards. I see your types around. You have no sincerity, are bad actors, and reflect poorly on the DL (the last bit was very helpful though. I will be sure to never listen to anything he ever says in any incarnation now, since I had the good fortune to see how dogmatic are his ignorant and illogical students). I would be ashamed to represent a real Buddhist teacher like that....
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Are the thousands of Kadampa Buddhist practitioners across this world to "blame" for their anger? Whatever bad experience they may or may not have encountered with a few individuals, surely that is not a reason to side with a political organization, the CTA, and attempt to destroy the faith of thousands. Have they no understanding of Karma?
Many of those "survivors" are followers of the Dalai Lama, one in particular was Ordained by the Dalai Lama and teaches in Germany.
They have zero credibility in my eyes.
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Remember, one of them was recently in the SOAS Panel Discussion in London? I wondered why this person was invited into the panel when clearly the topic of the day was The Dorje Shugden Controversy but turned out to be 'Vendettas of NKT Survivors'. Is this dharma practice?
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2d/Finger_pointing.jpg)
When we are pointing one finger to other, please always remember that there are three fingers pointing back to ourselves.
I have a very simple logic when I check out a Dharma Centre. I look at how the students behave as well as how they have brought Dharma to others. Most of the time, time will tell who have advance further in their spiritual journey.
When I look at how NKT people behave during the protest, I can see that they are doing it peacefully and not violent. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/category/protests/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/category/protests/)
On the other hand, I see those who left NKT, they normally speak with a lot of hatred and with a lot of complains. Eg, during the recent SOAS Panel Discussion in London. So, I know who is really practicing Dharma in their lives.
I am extremely upset to hear people saying bad things about a Dharma Centre after they left the Dharma Centre. If one were a true Dharma practitioner, he would not say bad things or complain about their own Dharma Centre and their own Guru after they left. Instead, they will look at themselves instead to see what they are lacking and why they do not have the merits to be closed to a Dharma Centre or a Guru. Centre hopping people are usually chasing for fame or their own interest instead of having a good Dharmic motivation. The saddest things is, when one saying bad things about a Dharma Centre, Guru or sangha community, they are creating the cause for them to be away from Dharma.
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Yes, it creates the cause for them not to get Dharma, that they come to our Centers and pretend to join (yes in many cases that is what they do) then cause a big scene and leave. Like, if I don't want to listen to the DL (why no I DON'T want to listen to the DL) then I don't go to the FPMT and pretend like I am following the DL to watch what is going on and cause trouble--- but I don't notice the same courtesy being extended to the NKT....
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There's a reason why they left and no ones gone after them, asking them to come back. Just saying.
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Anyone heard of the Holocaust Survivors? Now, those are real survivors. They were not consulted whether they wanted to join the genocide by Hitler.
For NKT survivors, you went to the Dharma centre. The onus was on you to check out your Guru. In fact, you were advised to check out your Guru. After you have checked out your Guru and accepted him, you are then to view him as Buddha as he is the source of all great things on the path to enlightenment. Milarepa had to build his Guru’s house 13 times. Naropa had to steal food for his Guru. And yet, they did not abandon their Guru.
If you have not done your homework, why try to put blame when things go awry for you? If you accept him as your Guru, do you think you know better for you to turn around and say he is wrong? Would it be so simple to attain enlightenment that we need not the Guru or Lama?
Sorry, but it is very hard to take the NKT survivors seriously with empathy.
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You are right grandmapele, these NKT 'survivors brought themselves all the way to NKT. Learnt the dharma gotten initiations and empowerments, enjoyed all NKT has to offer. Well when there are difficulties or problems they encounter, they run for the door. Gratitude what is that, just a nic word to adorn our friends and acquaintances when it is convenient.
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Upon further investigation, I have come to understand they have absolutely no idea with regards the Dalai Lama's illegal and immoral ban on Dorje Shugden veneration. Indeed, I do not believe they have any interest in the ban.
This "survivors" group has been bolstered largely by Tibetans and hard-line Dalai Lama followers and has therefore no relevance to their original "issue".
They are angry which is fair enough because we all experience anger. But it is their anger, so why direct it onto someone else, or on a religious organization?
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NKT survivors are not real survivors in the physical sense but in essence are still trapped in their own delusions having shifted their blame from their own delusions to the NKT. But delusions are still delusions. Just that now they have a common object to blame. All that is NKT is wrong to them but in their "enlightened" mind they are right. Alas, they are not enlightened yet and hence will go on in the cycle of life; and if they are not care; the cycle of rebirth in samsara, continuing this blame game.
When one start to stop this blame game, then one really start to practice the Dharma. The choice there for them to take.
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Upon further investigation, I have come to understand they have absolutely no idea with regards the Dalai Lama's illegal and immoral ban on Dorje Shugden veneration. Indeed, I do not believe they have any interest in the ban.
This "survivors" group has been bolstered largely by Tibetans and hard-line Dalai Lama followers and has therefore no relevance to their original "issue".
They are angry which is fair enough because we all experience anger. But it is their anger, so why direct it onto someone else, or on a religious organization?
I totally agree, they seem to keep talking only about how bad Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is, how bad NKT is and nothing about Dorje Shugden. They claimed they are out there to help people so that they would not be tricked and trapped in NKT, but they sound more like some angry people who just wanted to take revenge because they think they were not treated fairly.
A survivor group should be giving advice to so called 'victims' how to move on in their lives, that will make the group more meaningful.
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The only thing bad in the NKT is when these sorts that become survivors come and try to constantly convert those of us who like Shugden away from Shugden.
Dharma Police? Yeah. I am pretty over the DL's school because of the actions of such people--- they are proving how intolarent is the DL--- I find them very harassing, and then they act like the NKT did them wrong--- it made me very aware though of the intolerance of the FPMT and other groups--- as that is where they somehow, miraculously, end up.... a few years after they leave us.... ::)
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People do not become great spiritualist or practitioners by showing ingratitude to their teachers.
There could be one or two exceptions but by far it is a rare exception. Even Buddha Shakyamuni who was enlightened countless aeons ago relied on teachers when he manifested buddhahood. So do these NKT survivors think they are a chip off the old block? Simply delusional.
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IMHO, everyone has their rights to choose their spiritual path. If the NKT "survivors" are real spiritual practitioners, I think there is no point in blaming others, and best to do is to leave the organisation, then either look for another spiritual organisation to continue practice, or continue the practice on their own. I don't think what they are doing is helping themselves at all in their spiritual practice. If they are not interested in spiritual practice, then they can pursue legal actions against NKT, and move on. I sense so much hatred in the survivors...
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This anti-NKT hype is just sponsored hate propaganda against a perceived enemy of the evil dalie. Let's not forget that the evil dalie is sponsored by the Jewish financial terrorist George Soros, one of whose specialties is precisely to promote media campaigns serving his criminal purposes.
https://shugdensociety.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/the-dalai-lama-and-george-soros/
For instance, and from among many other propaganda campaigns, it is known that Soros is behind the media assaults promoting Nazi groups in Ukraine as “democrats”; demonizing democratic and patriotic leaders such as Putin of Russia, Chavez of Venezuela, Assad of Syria, and so forth; promoting Color and Spring Revolutions across Eastern Europe and the Muslim world; promoting terrorism among Uyghurs in China's Xinjiang and popular rebellion in China's Hong Kong; promoting the chaotic flooding of Muslims in Europe, serving as a wedge for the entrance of terrorists therein; promoting the dismantling of state-owned oil, mining, and other stategic companies in “third world” countries so that they are privatized in the hands of bankster-owned transnational companies; supporting Muslim terrorism in countries such as Sri Lanka and Myanmar; creating ethnic strife and territorial division in Nepal; and, surprise, surprise, supporting the criminal endeavors of the evil dalie lame of Tibet, which has at its center of course his anti-Shugden, and therefore anti-NKT campaign.
You will never see the evil dalie criticizing anything supported by the Jewish terrrorist George Soros. The evil dalie is just his convenient anti-China puppet. Western people are easily deceived by bankster-controlled media hypes and posterboys.
George Soros himself, of course, is just one current facade of the Jewish millenia-old schizophrenic-paranoid obsession with a delirious “world domination”. Jews, following their bloody, genocidal, narcissistic, supremacistic scriptures, believe that they are the “chosen people”, and that their destiny is to rule humankind at any cost. They will stop at nothing to achieve this end. All the 8 destructive barbarian prophets named by the Kalachakra Tantra (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mani, Mohamed and Mahdi) are either Jewish “prophets”, or Jewish products or subproducts such as Mohamed and Mahdi. Jewish scriptures teach that every other people is obliged to bow and submit to the bloodthirsty Jewish “god”, while denying their own gods and traditions, and that this is a commandment Jews have the religious task to enforce. Judaism is the only “religion” setting commandments not only to their own followers, but also to the followers of all other religions as well, or of no religion to that effect. Therefore, Judaism is better understood as a violent supremacistic world-domination ideology, rather than a “religion”. Of course Christanity and Islam, which are just branches of Judaism, followed suit.
Now Buddhism, just like any non-Abrahamic religion, is a powerful stumbling block on the way of Jewish world domination paranoia. And, of course, Tibetan Buddhism performs a powerful role within Buddhism. And, within Buddhism, Gelugpas also perform a powerful role. And, within Gelugpas, Shugden followers perform a most powerful role as well. Therefore it is just natural that Shugdenpas are targeted by the Soros-sponsored evil dalie's propaganda. Immediately it is about the petty power dreams of evil dalie, but the evil dalie is just a Soros-sponsored puppet, and therefore ultimately it is about Jewish world-domination paranoia -- which is precisely the message of the Buddha in the Kalachakra Tantra.