dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Big Uncle on April 09, 2010, 05:28:53 PM
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As quoted from Music Delighting An Ocean of Protectors by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche:-
THE STORY OF HOW DORJE SHUGDEN PREVAILED OVER WRATHFUL RITUALS
Then, although four undisputed powerful Tantricas,
With samadhi, began wrathful rituals to strike you down,
Through power of having completed Guyasamaja's two stages,
You would not be silenced, and showed signs of heroism, praise to you!
As for this, as related above, as soon as Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen died, various miraculous manifestations occurred, and no matter what activities or rituals were attempted, nothing could be found to help stop them. In the fire?bird year manifestations had become extremely heightened, and in the earth?bird year the Great Fifth Dalai Lama built a new king protector house at the White Spring of Dol in to which various sorts of representational substances were placed, but it did not help. Many of the lay people were sick in an epidemic and several of the monks of Namgyal Tratsang had died. Such manifestations were stronger than even before and Namgyal Tratsang requested the Dalai Lama to take action.
Accordingly, to the Tratsang came Gadong Ngarampa Dondrub Gyatso, a vajra master of Dorje Drolo; the Fifth Dalai Lama, himself a supreme vajra master of Yang Sang Karma Dragpo, Super Secret Wrathful Karma Guru; two large groups of monks provided by Nangjung Ngachang Lozang Kyentse; the vajra master of Dorje Drak Tulku Pema Trinle; the vajra master of Mindrol Ling Terdag Lingpa Gyurme Dorje; Choje Ugja Lungpa; the Tantrica of Katsal Zurpa Ngari Konchog Lhundrup; thus a glorious mountain of Tulkus did seven ritual practices, from Wrathful Guru Padmasambhava, to Yamanataka, Kilaya, Logtri, and so forth. On the comfortable broad eastern side of the Potala they did fire puja. The morning they were performing the ritual activity, one monk in Chagpori named Bodhisattva, who had clairvoyance, had a vision during his meditation. Early in the morning, from the direction of the Potala he saw small wrathful Deities emanating forth like atoms of sunbeams, going towards Drepung. Around eight in the morning he saw the Great King of Dol, master and servants, about to go to the Potala in a line on horseback in an impossible array of finery and ornamentation. The Fifth Dalai Lama performed the ritual activity but as he was doing it Sangpu Setrab emanated a monastery on top of Bumpa Ri, Vase Mountain, where none had been before and rocked the Potala Palace back and forth, which caused the Great Fifth's concentration to waver just slightly; and also by the power of Dragpa Gyaltsen, himself, having single-pointedly practised glorious Guyasamaja while he was alive and attained high experiential realizations of its two stages, the fire puja was not successful.
Likewise, when the great vajra master Dordrag Rigtzin peformed wrathful
fire puja, Gyalchen came to the fire puja ladle but, when he turned the ladle over to pour into the fire he went to the backside of the ladle, and when he turned it upright, he was sitting on top again, and so on, and he was unable to burn him.
When Mingling Terchen performed wrathful fire puja and Gyalchen came to the fire puja ladle, when he was about to put him in the fire, Setrab emanated a celestial mansion in the sky until Terchen's mind was distracted and he lost him from the ladle. The ritual monks saw a pigeon fly away. When Gadong Ngarampa performed fire puja, one of the ritual monks squeezed a dry apricot pit that flew up and struck the master in the head so that his samadhi dissipated and he was unable to burn him. Other teams of practitioners could not do it either. With fire pujas ineffective, the Great Fifth Dalai Lama, with an aspect of being disturbed, went to Sangpu Monastery and delivered a reprimanding address to Setrab in a very terrifying manner. As he was reading it, the Dharmapala was so scared the whole temple rocked and shook, it is said. Not long after the fire pujas were performed many monks of Namgyal Tratsang died of strokes and those at the college's borders could see a huge bodiless hand shading or fanning the fires they built. People going out to relieve themselves met monks with the heads of donkeys wearing their ceremonial robes. At the tops of stairs people would mistake a black man for the son of the king and be almost thrown over the side. Several were possessed or supposed to be sick, so many came for checkups. They were examined by the doctor Darmo Menrampa, who seemed to be a close associate of the king, himself. One time he came to a monk's bedside and even though he knew the monk's sickness was being caused by a king spirit he said, 'This sickness of yours is from natural causes!' Then he pointed his finger at the patient's heart and whispered, 'Be quiet! People will find out!' As the doctor Darmo, he then snapped his fingers gently and the patient was cured.
Because such miraculous manifestations were so greatly heightened the
Great fifth Dalai Lama wrote the following:
PRAYER BY THE FIFTH DALAI LAMA
HUM
Though unmoving from the sphere of primordial spontaneity,
With wrathful turbulent power, swifter than lightning,
Endowed with heroic courage to judge good and bad,
I invite you with faith, please come to this place!
Robes of a monk, crown adorned with rhinocerous leather hat,
Right hand holds ornate club, left holds a human heart,
Riding various mounts such as nagas and garudas,
Who subdues the mamo's of the charnal grounds, praise to you!
Samaya substances, offerings and torma, outer, inner and secret,
Favorite visual offerings and various objects are arranged.
Although, previously, my wishes were a bit dense,
Do not stop your powerful apparitions, I reveal and confess!
Now respectfully praising with body, speech, and mind,
For us, the masters, disciples, benefactors and entourages,
Provide the good and avert the bad!
Bring increase like the waxing moon in spiritual and temporal realms!
Moreover, swiftly accomplishing all wishes,
According to our prayers, bestow the supreme effortlessly!
And like the jewel that bestows all wishes,
Always protect us with the Three Jewels!
Even the composition of this short praise and propitiation brought benefit. Thus, although undisputed great Tantric masters tried to subdue him by burning him in the fire through their rituals, his display of miraculous power only grew greater, and it is in regard to this that he is being praised in this verse.
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In this text, Lord Setrap came to the rescue of Dorje Shugden TWICE! This shows that the two Dharmapalas are very close, like brothers. Setrap would never allow Dorje Shugden to be hurt and vice versa. When we call upon Dorje Shugden, Lord Setrap also comes and vice versa.
I think this relationship is worth investigating. Does anyone know the story behind this close relationship? Are there any texts that we can refer to?
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In this text, Lord Setrap came to the rescue of Dorje Shugden TWICE! This shows that the two Dharmapalas are very close, like brothers. Setrap would never allow Dorje Shugden to be hurt and vice versa. When we call upon Dorje Shugden, Lord Setrap also comes and vice versa.
I think this relationship is worth investigating. Does anyone know the story behind this close relationship? Are there any texts that we can refer to?
I only know that Setrap is in Dorje Shugden's mandala... Dorje Shugden is on the ground floor, Setrap on the first floor and Amitabha Buddha on the top floor. They're all housemates!
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Dear Big Uncle,
What a fantastic post. It is very enlightening and very good to study up on. Now we know how much the 5th Dalai Lama tried to eliminate Shugden. Finally when he couldn't, Dalai Lama realized Shugden is not a ordinary being.
What's incredible is until now the 14th Dalai Lama cannot rid the world of Shugden. Can Shugden be more powerful than Dalai Lama and all the Lamas in Tibet? How can Shugden resist them all put together. Shugden is a Buddha? That must be it. Any other theory wouldn't hold water.
In regret, 5th Dalai Lama composed the prayer to Shugden. Built Trode Khangsar chapel in Lhasa which still stands today and we can visit today. The main image inside of Shugden in Trode Khangsar was commissioned by 5th Dalai Lama also.
Wouldn't it be great if the 14th Dalai Lama finally lifts the ban and builts a chapel to Shugden in Dharamasala??
TK
Below is a picture of the statue commissioned by 5th Dalai Lama in Trode Khangsar Chapel. The chapel is around 15 mins walk near the famous Jowo Rinpoche central Cathedral in Lhasa. Open to visitors of all nations. Protected by the Chinese Govt.
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Wouldn't it be great if the 14th Dalai Lama finally lifts the ban and builts a chapel to Shugden in Dharamasala??
TK
/quote]
Yes, TK, it could happen, history could repeat itself.
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Wouldn't it be great if the 14th Dalai Lama finally lifts the ban and builts a chapel to Shugden in Dharamasala??
TK
The 14th Dalai Lama has said that he is particularly close to the 5th Dalai Lama, so he should follow the great 5th's example, regret his condemnation of Dorje Shugden, build a chapel to Shugden and make a statue of Shugden with his own hands! After all, the 14th Dalai Lama has already written a beautiful praise to Dorje Shugden.
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What makes us think that the 14th Dalai Lama is not building Dorje Shugden a SHINY HUGE CHAPEL with his own bare hands? If it were not for the Dalai Lama exercising the complete ban on practising DS, I don't think that DS would be so googled and so famous everywhere. There are so many Dharmapalas, one may not have even come across DS if it were not for the Dalai Lama making it into such a HUGE issue. Now, it is even global. Is it not possible that the Dalai Lama is alreadu building DS the biggest and most powerful chapel of all - GLOBAL MEDIA? Frankly, I myself would not have heard of DS at all if it were not the Dalai Lama making such a fuss over it and causing so much noise over it. The Dalai Lama has single-handedly made DS the most famous of all the Dharmapalas. That is like the biggest and swiftest marketing publicity campaign I have ever seen. Would it not be worthy for some serious consideration? Just sharing 8)
Wouldn't it be great if the 14th Dalai Lama finally lifts the ban and builts a chapel to Shugden in Dharamasala??
TK
The 14th Dalai Lama has said that he is particularly close to the 5th Dalai Lama, so he should follow the great 5th's example, regret his condemnation of Dorje Shugden, build a chapel to Shugden and make a statue of Shugden with his own hands! After all, the 14th Dalai Lama has already written a beautiful praise to Dorje Shugden.
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What makes us think that the 14th Dalai Lama is not building Dorje Shugden a SHINY HUGE CHAPEL with his own bare hands? If it were not for the Dalai Lama exercising the complete ban on practising DS, I don't think that DS would be so googled and so famous everywhere. There are so many Dharmapalas, one may not have even come across DS if it were not for the Dalai Lama making it into such a HUGE issue. Now, it is even global. Is it not possible that the Dalai Lama is alreadu building DS the biggest and most powerful chapel of all - GLOBAL MEDIA? Frankly, I myself would not have heard of DS at all if it were not the Dalai Lama making such a fuss over it and causing so much noise over it. The Dalai Lama has single-handedly made DS the most famous of all the Dharmapalas. That is like the biggest and swiftest marketing publicity campaign I have ever seen. Would it not be worthy for some serious consideration? Just sharing 8)
Wouldn't it be great if the 14th Dalai Lama finally lifts the ban and builts a chapel to Shugden in Dharamasala??
TK
The 14th Dalai Lama has said that he is particularly close to the 5th Dalai Lama, so he should follow the great 5th's example, regret his condemnation of Dorje Shugden, build a chapel to Shugden and make a statue of Shugden with his own hands! After all, the 14th Dalai Lama has already written a beautiful praise to Dorje Shugden.
I think you have a point :)
Im always thankful to the DL in this respect !
Of course on could always just simply hear what he says and beleive him because he is a famous person, But for those skillfull Buddhists out there they should always apply the advise in the Kalama sutta to situations like these. :)
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I have always believed in all of them being Enlightened Beings. I do not believe that DL is a evil dictator, anymore than I believe DS is a demon. They are all servants of the Dharma, doing what they must do for the sake of humanity, in the name of the Dharma. They each have their own roles to play. If they do not do what they do, the rest of the world will never even hear of the word: Tsongkapa. So, to DL, I fold my hands and say, THANK YOU, for reviving the awareness of Buddism on a global level. And now, DL has even used his entire fame and media platform to PROMOTE DS, because he talks of nothing else and nothing more. Can DL be passing the 'torch of responsibility' to DS? Is that why DS is hailed as THE PROTECTOR OF OUR TIME? Think about it. And what does it all have to do with us, the un-enlightened ones stuck in Samsara? Everything around us is a teaching. So, I say, let us all practise what we have learnt from our own Gurus and be the true disciples of the Dharma. I leave you all to ponder on what that means. Thank you so kindly.
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Hi Big Uncle thanks for the post. Never knew about any of this before.
So what actually happens in these wrathful rituals, here on earth all we see are monks chanting and fires blazing, they throw a few ceremonial branches, oils etc on the fire and its done. But what happens to the "spirit" and how come there is no karma of killing a spirit as opposed to killing a human?
Great that DS rituals were not successful, I don't think you need to do anymore to know that DS is not an evilo spirit for the simple fact that after 9 incarnations of DL's DS never once "gotcha back".
Serious, does anyone know the actual process of wrathful rituals and what happens to spirits or obstructers after the ritual?
iluuurvds
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In this text, Lord Setrap came to the rescue of Dorje Shugden TWICE! This shows that the two Dharmapalas are very close, like brothers. Setrap would never allow Dorje Shugden to be hurt and vice versa. When we call upon Dorje Shugden, Lord Setrap also comes and vice versa.
I think this relationship is worth investigating. Does anyone know the story behind this close relationship? Are there any texts that we can refer to?
I only know that Setrap is in Dorje Shugden's mandala... Dorje Shugden is on the ground floor, Setrap on the first floor and Amitabha Buddha on the top floor. They're all housemates!
Setrab who is Amitabha Buddha by nature is residing in the same celestial mansion as Dorje Shugden. I remember reading from source that I cannot remember that besides the emperor of China, the Dalai and his regent enthroned Dorje Shugden as a Dharma Protector, Setrab as an official Dharma Protector also enthroned Dorje Shugden as well.
It speaks a lot when a fully enlightened Dharma Protector enthrones another Protector. Their connection seem to come from the two times, Setrab 'rescued' Dorje Shugden. Setrab is the only Protector who manifested assistance towards Dorje Shugden. I wonder if the connection extended even earlier as Lamas who probably practiced Setrab. Whatever it is, these two protectors are very much connected and the old shrines in Gaden Monastery in Tibet often have them side-by-side. They are very close.
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I love this picture of Dorje Shugden's mandala - you can clearly see Dharmapala Setrap (yes - he's DS too!) on the first floor and Amitabha Buddha on the top. Dorje Shugden's five families are also there and his entourage.. fabulous!
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Love that mandala pic. Thank you so much for posting it in here. I'll save it and keep it. THANK YOU! Now, that's real helpful and a friendly gesture.
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What Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche has said is certainly true. We can see this happening right now: there have been countless fire pujas and exorcism rituals done in recent decades to "destroy" Dorje Shugden. In certain accounts, witnesses even claim that they could smell burning flesh as if a being was really being destroyed. and yet he is still around!
More recently, some monks in Sera Monastery performed a Hayagriva fire puja to again exorcise DS. It didn't work - the very next day, he took trance in an oracle and spoke.
It seems ridiculous really, that people are trying to destroy an enlightened being!
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What Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche has said is certainly true. We can see this happening right now: there have been countless fire pujas and exorcism rituals done in recent decades to "destroy" Dorje Shugden. In certain accounts, witnesses even claim that they could smell burning flesh as if a being was really being destroyed. and yet he is still around!
More recently, some monks in Sera Monastery performed a Hayagriva fire puja to again exorcise DS. It didn't work - the very next day, he took trance in an oracle and spoke.
It seems ridiculous really, that people are trying to destroy an enlightened being!
And in turn by doing so they are creating the causes for themselves to become Dharma Obstructors...and be burnt in the same way.
How sad. :(
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Hey guys,
Did you guys know why, out of all the Dharma Protectors, Setrap came to assist Dorje Shugden and also currently abides on the upper floor of Dorje Shugden's celestial mansion?
Well, when Dorje Shugden was in his previous incarnation as Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, one of his main Dharma Protectors that he propitiated was Setrap. Hence, due to this connection, Setrap came to his assistance and also enthrone the Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's spirit as a Dharma Protector. (spirit is just a convention as a Lama doesn't have the karma to be reborn as a spirit) Therefore, it is said that when we propitiate Dorje Shugden, his 'older brother' will also be by his side.
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I was looking at Dorje Shugden's kawang and Setrap's kawang and noticed that they are quite similar. Are all kawangs similar in structure or these two have an unusual similarity?
I have not seen other Dharma Protector's kawangs so don't have anything to compare with.
Thanks..
KAWANG OF DORJE SHUGDEN
HUM !
Heart’s blood drinking offerings set out like the flow of the Ganges,
Flowers of the sense organs blossoming and clouds of smoke gathering,
Human bile perfume, flesh and blood, and the sound of thigh bone trumpets,
Please accept these as well as an ocean of undefiled nectar!
Also sensual objects and the seven royal objects,
The intelligent horse, elephants, frightful yaks, sheep, and dogs,
Saffron robes, strong, hard armour and shields,
Arrows, spears, swords, and outer, inner, and secret bases,
With these clouds of offerings, both supramundane and worldly,
O Dorje Shugden and all your wrathful entourage,
May your heart commitment be fulfilled and degeneration restored!
Especially, each accumulated faulty deed of body, speech and mind
We have committed under the influence of ignorance,
Which goes against your mind, protector,
We confess with a mind of remorse and regret.
Furthermore, transgressions of our commitments to the protector
And entourage, neglect or degeneration of retreat practice,
Tormas, offerings, and so on,
We practitioners confess all of these
Within the unobjectifiable emptiness of the three spheres.
Kanshag or Kawang of Setrap
(Composed by His Holiness the 5th Dalai Lama)
An ocean of blood stirred by waves
Flowers of sense organs stacked in mounds
Smoke of burnt flesh gathered like clouds
Lamp of melted human fat, bright as the sun
Perfume of human grease filling vessels
Food to eat of flesh and bones
Various music thundering like a thousand dragons
Sturdy hard vajra armor which protects life
Various weapons which destroy enemies
Clever horse which traverse the billion worlds
Wish fulfilling cow bearing a stream of milk
Baboons, monkeys, cat and cocks
Goats, sheep, drong, yaks, elephants, lions and tigers
A mountain of torma soaring to the sky
Swirling lake of tea and beer to drink
Mount Sumeru, four lands, sun and moon
The seven royal objects and five senses
Thus, all wealth of humans and devas
Actually arranged and mentally envisioned
And blessed into a sky treasure, wih this
May Setrap Chen’s heart commitments be fulfilled
May the six emanations’ heart commitments be fulfulled
May the infinite entourage’s heart commitments be fulfilled
May you fulfill commitments and restore degeneration!
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Hey guys,
Did you guys know why, out of all the Dharma Protectors, Setrap came to assist Dorje Shugden and also currently abides on the upper floor of Dorje Shugden's celestial mansion?
Well, when Dorje Shugden was in his previous incarnation as Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen, one of his main Dharma Protectors that he propitiated was Setrap. Hence, due to this connection, Setrap came to his assistance and also enthrone the Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's spirit as a Dharma Protector. (spirit is just a convention as a Lama doesn't have the karma to be reborn as a spirit) Therefore, it is said that when we propitiate Dorje Shugden, his 'older brother' will also be by his side.
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Always inspiring and very beautiful to hear how closely the buddha work together.
Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen also relied strongly on Four-faced Mahakala. Biographical thangkas of TDG would portray both Setrap and FF-Mahakala alongside him and Dorje shugden is known to be very close to be both Setrpa and four-faced Mahakala.
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Talking about how close the buddhas work together..
It has been so many lifetimes of relationship/connection between Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. Of all the many protectors, why did Dalai Lama specifically "pick" on Dorje Shugden. Dalai Lama wrote praises, persecuted him, engaged in the practice, stopped the practice, put ban on him and so forth..Well, what Dalai Lama is doing has certainly stirred interests in MANY.
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Talking about how close the buddhas work together..
It has been so many lifetimes of relationship/connection between Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. Of all the many protectors, why did Dalai Lama specifically "pick" on Dorje Shugden. Dalai Lama wrote praises, persecuted him, engaged in the practice, stopped the practice, put ban on him and so forth..Well, what Dalai Lama is doing has certainly stirred interests in MANY.
A few more points that assured me that these enlightened beings are working together, and it's true, why is it that Dalai Lama picked Shugden only- it doesnt make sense.
1. Why was it that "the Great Fifth Dalai Lama, with an aspect of being disturbed, went to Sangpu Monastery and delivered a reprimanding address to Setrab in a very terrifying manner" and never condemned Setrab for rescuing "evil spirit" when Dalai Lama was so sure that Shugden WAS an evil spirit at that time?
2. Why was it that Setrab, who is seen as an enlightened Dharma Protector would ethroned Shugden if he was an evil spirit?
3. Why is it that the Great Fifth, an enlightened being can enthroned and write praises to such a protector (perhaps from his visions) and then deny what he has written- we are talking about Dharma and rituals, not his "secular" decisions which he could portray his 'mistakes' or faults.
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Good valid points, Vajraprotect.
Ordinary beings like us will only see ordinary actions and words because we have no attainments to perceive Enlightened Beings as they truly are. Buddhas could be standing infront of us, and we will not view them as such. That is, sad to say, our greatest loss and hindrance while in samsara.
Hence, the "great display of actions" between High Lamas and Enlightened Beings may confuse many people as we would always end up using our own 'ordinary' perception and judgement.
To me, all Enlightened Beings and Buddhas - no matter who they are - will always work together because they are all united in one common divine goal and motivated by a single love of kindness to help others. How can Chenrezig not be friends with Manjushri, or how can Yamantaka only side with Amitabha? Does not make sense, does it? They are all one and the same - just "dressed up" in "different attire" for our different preferences/minds.
Hence, it does not surprise me to find that Setrap is close to Dorje Shugden or Yamantaka is close to Dorje Shugden. Both Setrap and Yamantaka were Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's personal Protectors before TDG arose as Dorje Shugden.
All things in samsara, is part of a grand illusory play for the minds of ordinary beings to achieve certain realizations. Hence, the Buddhas and Enlightened Beings will work in ways that will bring about the greatest benefit to us.
Hopefully, we all have the merits and karma to open our minds to actually learn and understand.
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Talking about how close the buddhas work together..
It has been so many lifetimes of relationship/connection between Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama. Of all the many protectors, why did Dalai Lama specifically "pick" on Dorje Shugden. Dalai Lama wrote praises, persecuted him, engaged in the practice, stopped the practice, put ban on him and so forth..Well, what Dalai Lama is doing has certainly stirred interests in MANY.
A few more points that assured me that these enlightened beings are working together, and it's true, why is it that Dalai Lama picked Shugden only- it doesnt make sense.
1. Why was it that "the Great Fifth Dalai Lama, with an aspect of being disturbed, went to Sangpu Monastery and delivered a reprimanding address to Setrab in a very terrifying manner" and never condemned Setrab for rescuing "evil spirit" when Dalai Lama was so sure that Shugden WAS an evil spirit at that time?
2. Why was it that Setrab, who is seen as an enlightened Dharma Protector would ethroned Shugden if he was an evil spirit?
3. Why is it that the Great Fifth, an enlightened being can enthroned and write praises to such a protector (perhaps from his visions) and then deny what he has written- we are talking about Dharma and rituals, not his "secular" decisions which he could portray his 'mistakes' or faults.
Vajraprotector, you've raised interesting points regarding the relationship between Dorje Shugden and Setrab. I'm curious why Setrab had to manifest that he rescued Dorje Shugden. Surely Dorje Shugden, being enlightened, would have been able to escape by himself without assistance?
Re the third question about the 5th Dalai Lama denying what he wrote - i had thought that the 5th Dalai Lama had first accused DS of being a spirit, then realised he wasn't, and only then wrote praises and built Trode Khangsar. I wasn't aware that he had denied what he written. Can you please clarify?
Thank you.
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Vajraprotector, you've raised interesting points regarding the relationship between Dorje Shugden and Setrab. I'm curious why Setrab had to manifest that he rescued Dorje Shugden. Surely Dorje Shugden, being enlightened, would have been able to escape by himself without assistance?
I think the act of Setrab manifesting that he rescued Dorje Shugden is to validate and prove that DS is NOT an evil spirit but actually one of the same enlightened level and nature as Setrab himself (who has already been recognised as a fully enlightened being of course).
High Lamas with clairvoyance would have been able to see Setrab coming to "rescue" Dorje Shugden and thereby relate it to others who didn't have clairvoyance or conviction to recognise DS as a spirit. So "seeing" this, they would have been able to create a firm link in the minds of others that Setrab and Shugden are very close, and therefore Shugden is NOT merely some worldly being.
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If Shugden was an evil spirit, he should have been subdued by the powerful rituals of so many lamas for the past 350 years. Yet he remains 'unsubdued'.
If he is a Buddha, naturally no rituals can subdue him done by any lamas. From this we can easily conclude if he is a spirit or a Buddha.
TK
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Good point, TK - simple and direct.
As Dorje Shugden is a Buddha, he also cannot bring harm to those who practice him. None of the high Lamas who practice Dorje Shugden in the past have gone to the three lower realms when they have passed on. In fact, all of them are returning as we speak.
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Of course Dorje Shugden cannot be harmed by wrathful rituals because He is an enlightened Buddha, how can a Buddha be harmed? He doesn't have the karma to be harmed, no way.