dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: LosangKhyentse on September 08, 2010, 07:41:52 PM
-
1. Toned Down
Thanks to the 14th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden is very well known to the world.
Now it is our job to further educate everyone as to who he is, his history, his benefits, why we need him and how to begin his practice.
Trijang Rinpoche's prophecy in the 70's regarding how Dorje Shugden/Dalai Lama will work together to spread the dharma although it may not appear so, of course is accurate and coming true now.
The Dalai Lama currently during public speeches has begun to say that it is his duty to let you know the 'disbenefits' of Shugden but IT IS UP TO US TO PRACTICE OR NOT. As you have religious freedom. He is not directly saying YOU CAN'T PRACTICE. He has toned down now. The monks at Serpom Monastery mentioned Dalai Lama's tone is much less harsh and during his stay in Sera, NO TROUBLE CAME TO SERPOM MONASTERY WHAT SO EVER. NO RIOTS FROM LAY PPL AT ALL this time around which of course is big news. No one from the Dalai Lama's group incited any incidences against Serpom Monastery this trip.
Dalai Lama has toned down his speech especially the latest one in Sera in late August-early Sept 2010. Perhaps even though the Dalai Lama was not taken to court, but was 'warned' to tone done his speeches against Shugden. For the Indian courts to release the case on technicalities, I'm sure they might have given the Dalai Lama a light warning also. Otherwise nothing else could have influenced Dalai Lama to becareful in regards to Shugden and freedom of worship. Good signs.
It is ironic, because near where he was giving his sermon in Sera is Serpom Monastery happily practicing, debating and doing their activities. When the Dalai Lama was staying in Sera recently and giving sermons, he can hear the monks of Serpom Monastery doing their debates energetically and enthusiasitically as they always do from his room. Someone from his entourage mentioned, maybe they are debating extra loud to annoy the Dalai Lama staying nearby?
2. Abbotship of Serpom
Serpom Monastery requested His Holiness Pabongka Rinpoche's current incarnation to be the abbot of Serpom. Rinpoche was not adverse. But Rinpoche had Serpom Monastery's welfare in mind as he is travelling/retreating more and more in China these days. His trips in China are to teach people who have sincerely invited him and to various Buddhist pilgrimage sites of which there are many. Since he stays in China most of the time, to be the abbot of Serpom would incite the ignorant lay ppl living in surrounding camps to say that Serpom is being funded by Chinese Govt which of course is not true and has never been the case. The only way the Tibetan Govt now can incite hatred against the peaceful Dorje Shugden institutions/practitioner is to say they are traitors as they recieve financial support from the Chinese Govt. Silly and ridiculous as it sounds. So out of compassion, His Holiness Kyabje Pabongka declined taking the throne of Serpom as it's first abbot, hence they requested Kyabje Yongyal Rinpoche who graciously accepted.
3. Trijang Rinpoche-Mongolia
Recently there were very huge prayer festivals in Mongolia celebrating the Parinirvana anniversary of the great Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche. Many lamas, monks, oracles and practitioners flew to Mongolia to congregate and take part in the prayers for over 20 days. His Holiness the current Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche was the special guest of the prayers and he travelled there to give blessings to hundreds. It was a great honour for all of them to have recieved Trijang Rinpoche. Guru Deva was not only a great lama of Mongolian origin, very devoted to the previous Trijang Rinpoche, he was also the sponsor of the previous/current Trijang Rinpoches. Guru Deva was extremely loyal and devoted to Trijang Rinpoche. Guru Deva was considered the emanation of the wealth form of Shugden on a horse. The prayer and dedications went very well. Now everyone is waiting for the supreme incarnation of Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche to manifest.
TK
below is the great Tulku Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche of Mongolia. He was a great student, patron, sponsor of both the previous and current Trijang Rinpoches. May his incarnation manifest soon.
-
Thanks to the 14th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden is very well known to the world.
It is nice to see that sarcasm is allowed here, after all. :P
-
Thanks to the 14th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden is very well known to the world.
It is nice to see that sarcasm is allowed here, after all. :P
It is not sarcasm at all. I mean what I say. The Dalai Lama has made Dorje Shugden very well known.
tk
-
Sarcasm is not encouraged on this friendly Buddhist Site where we encourage learning, understandinga and practice.
Mana
-
Dear TK,
Thank you for sharing all these news and highlighting how HHDL has toned down his speech. That will make a lot of difference as anything the HHDL says will incite other actions or reactions from the TGIE and the Tibetan Community in general.
So, even though the Court Case has been thrown out, it has done its part in casting the "spot light" on the "Freedom to Practice".
Yes, we should all find better ways to spread the history, informative and practice of Dorje Shugden. Like this website team, who is so obviously determined in always finding new and creative ways to spread the knowledge of our great Protector, and creating more awareness about HIM. This is clearly seen through their most recent beautiful work - the DS illustrated story. It is very beautifully done, by the way.
In any case, I just wanted to say that when we put our efforts in promoting and creating awareness and knowledge of our Protector, more people will be educated.
TK, thank you for sharing the story of Serpom and Guru Deva.
Its a great relief to know that Serpom is not suffering from any more "back lash" from its own community and that they are practising and learning wonderfully.
Having said that, I can't help but laugh about the part where HHDL is just next door at Sera and he can hear what the monks in Serpom are chanting - particularly loudly or not. In any case, it is still a blessing just to hear the verses of the prayers :)
In any case, when more people read about the story of Dorje Shugden, they will make up their own minds.
I myself have learnt a great deal from this sacred space, and will continue to do so. At the same time, I will do my part to promote and create know awareness about DS with all the valuable information that I have received from here as well.
Thank you all.
-
Nice thoughts and nice conclusions. Thank you for adding to this sacred space.
Mana
-
1. Toned Down
Thanks to the 14th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden is very well known to the world.
Now it is our job to further educate everyone as to who he is, his history, his benefits, why we need him and how to begin his practice.
Trijang Rinpoche's prophecy in the 70's regarding how Dorje Shugden/Dalai Lama will work together to spread the dharma although it may not appear so, of course is accurate and coming true now.
The Dalai Lama currently during public speeches has begun to say that it is his duty to let you know the 'disbenefits' of Shugden but IT IS UP TO US TO PRACTICE OR NOT. As you have religious freedom. He is not directly saying YOU CAN'T PRACTICE. He has toned down now. The monks at Serpom Monastery mentioned Dalai Lama's tone is much less harsh and during his stay in Sera, NO TROUBLE CAME TO SERPOM MONASTERY WHAT SO EVER. NO RIOTS FROM LAY PPL AT ALL this time around which of course is big news. No one from the Dalai Lama's group incited any incidences against Serpom Monastery this trip.
Dalai Lama has toned down his speech especially the latest one in Sera in late August-early Sept 2010. Perhaps even though the Dalai Lama was not taken to court, but was 'warned' to tone done his speeches against Shugden. For the Indian courts to release the case on technicalities, I'm sure they might have given the Dalai Lama a light warning also. Otherwise nothing else could have influenced Dalai Lama to becareful in regards to Shugden and freedom of worship. Good signs.
Yes this is really GOOD SIGNS of the change in tide. I've always had this opinion from many of logical inputs from this website that Dalai Lama is secretly promoting DS in a BIG BIG way using Samsara's methods. No doubt that someone like the Dalai Lama would contradict himself for no good reasons and for sure it is all premeditated and planed. Some may see it is as black and white/good and bad but there is always the gray areas we are often unwise, no merits to see.
It is now slowly happening and thanks TK for pointing out the facts yet again. Whatever it is, bottom line is Dorje Shugden is becoming more and more well known and who else could give it such a huge publicity on a global level then the Dalai Lama?! Makes one wonder why on a much deeper level.
The toning down of his words does and will affect the circumstances to come and who knows what's next. One thing good for sure is better to on our side educate more ppl on DS then to bicker whose right, whose wrong. At the end of the day the goal is spreading DS to everyone so that they too can get the benefits of it's practice.
Yes I agree with Helena, this site has been pivotal and inspiring and helpful when i need to share about DS with friends. Thank you again ds.com for your constant unbias, truthful knowledge and information.
-
2. Abbotship of Serpom
Serpom Monastery requested His Holiness Pabongka Rinpoche's current incarnation to be the abbot of Serpom. Rinpoche was not adverse. But Rinpoche had Serpom Monastery's welfare in mind as he is travelling/retreating more and more in China these days. His trips in China are to teach people who have sincerely invited him and to various Buddhist pilgrimage sites of which there are many. Since he stays in China most of the time, to be the abbot of Serpom would incite the ignorant lay ppl living in surrounding camps to say that Serpom is being funded by Chinese Govt which of course is not true and has never been the case. The only way the Tibetan Govt now can incite hatred against the peaceful Dorje Shugden institutions/practitioner is to say they are traitors as they recieve financial support from the Chinese Govt. Silly and ridiculous as it sounds. So out of compassion, His Holiness Kyabje Pabongka declined taking the throne of Serpom as it's first abbot, hence they requested Kyabje Yongyal Rinpoche who graciously accepted.
3. Trijang Rinpoche-Mongolia
Recently there were very huge prayer festivals in Mongolia celebrating the Parinirvana anniversary of the great Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche. Many lamas, monks, oracles and practitioners flew to Mongolia to congregate and take part in the prayers for over 20 days. His Holiness the current Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche was the special guest of the prayers and he travelled there to give blessings to hundreds. It was a great honour for all of them to have recieved Trijang Rinpoche. Guru Deva was not only a great lama of Mongolian origin, very devoted to the previous Trijang Rinpoche, he was also the sponsor of the previous/current Trijang Rinpoches. Guru Deva was extremely loyal and devoted to Trijang Rinpoche. Guru Deva was considered the emanation of the wealth form of Shugden on a horse. The prayer and dedications went very well. Now everyone is waiting for the supreme incarnation of Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche to manifest.
TK
below is the great Tulku Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche of Mongolia. He was a great student, patron, sponsor of both the previous and current Trijang Rinpoches. May his incarnation manifest soon.
1. It is just so amazing to know that HH Pabongka Rinpoche is walking on earth and teaching again. Wouldn't you consider Him a Tulku?
What I find even more interesting is that the great Pabongka is spreading the Dharma in China - wow! Through China, a powerful nation of billions, Dharma and DS will spread in to the world again. If we pay attention and connect the dots, I can see how all this act of banning DS, slandering China by TGIE creates a reaction that will most certainly have an out come that would change the world.
2. May there be more incarnations of great masters and Tulkus to return to continue their work in spreading the Dharma together.
-
Thank you for the update...
Re the Dalai Lama's speech toned down - yes i did think that when i read it. I had heard people say that when he gives speeches in US or Europe, he usually uses this tone but when he is addressing Tibetans in India, his tone is very aggressive against Shugden. However, since he is addressing Sera in his so-called 'western' tone, it indicates a positive shift. Call me the eternal optimist but I do think that maybe this shift will be the start of a change of attitude towards Shugden practitioners and the practice itself. It would probably not be practical for the Dalai Lama to just withdraw the ban but this way would allow him to gently change the tide.
I love the idea that the Dalai Lama will have to hear Serpom doing DS pujas!! Actually i'm sure it's music to his ears.
I love hearing about these young Tulkus.. thank Buddha for the tulku system so lay people like me can watch out for what they are doing. Thanks for sharing re Pabongka Rinpoche's reason to turn down the abbotship of Serpom. It's sad that politics always has to rear its ugly head. If people even visit China, they become labelled as a Chinese spy. Whenever i go to certain websites and say that I am a Shugden practitioner, people immediately assume that I'm being paid by China. Hello? I wish! I certainly could do with the extra dosh. Anyway, once and for all, i am not a chinese spy.
Trijang Rinpoche's attending the event in Mongolia shows that even though he has become a lay person, he is still seen as a holy man. It just shows that the true nature of a tulku shines through and is recognised by many, whether they wear the cloth or not. I do believe that these tulkus are enlightened beings themselves!
I look forward to more news... how i love this website and forum.. it really is my sanctuary every day.
thank you to the admin and everyone involved again - as always.
-
It is ironic, because near where he was giving his sermon in Sera is Serpom Monastery happily practicing, debating and doing their activities. When the Dalai Lama was staying in Sera recently and giving sermons, he can hear the monks of Serpom Monastery doing their debates energetically and enthusiastically as they always do from his room. Someone from his entourage mentioned, maybe they are debating extra loud to annoy the Dalai Lama staying nearby?
Haha. Like what WB says, and I agree, it was probably music to his ears. I'm sure that it has been quite a while since he has heard Shugdenpa monks openly debate! If the bigger picture is true, he must have been very pleased to be in the presence of Shugdenpas debating :) A little cheeky on the side of the monks to debate extra loudly though!
3. Trijang Rinpoche-Mongolia
Recently there were very huge prayer festivals in Mongolia celebrating the Parinirvana anniversary of the great Guru Deva Sogpu Rinpoche.
http://shargadenpa.org/ceremony-in-mongolia
Those are photos of Trijang Rinpoche in Mongolia...does anyone know who is the statue behind him in the first photo?
I'm really glad to hear that he HHDL has toned down his speech, it's the start of good things to come. Now I'm just anticipating the move!!
-
There is no way in this lifetime Tibet will get any sort of Independence from China. Tibet will remain a part of China and more so after the passing of Dalai Lama. If the Tibetan govt in exile was intelligent, it would be better to become good friends with China. Have the Dalai Lama start visiting China more and more and bring Buddhism to the people. He would be a powerful draw in such a enormous nation such as China. China already has a long history of Tibetan teachers bringing Buddhism to China and also being the tutors of the past Imperial Emperors.
Options:
1. Be enemies of China and have a stalemate. In this manner, Tibet would never get it's independence anyway and many people cannot recieve Dharma from Dalai Lama. No Tibetan Independence, and more ppl do not recieve the dharma.
2. Be friends with China, Dalai Lama visits them more and more. Teach them the Dharma. Meet with more govt officials and gain their confidence. The turnout might be you don't get independence, but many millions will turn to the Buddhadharma. Everyone needs the dharma whether they are Chinese or not. Anyway, their next lives might not even be Chinese yet they can carry their dharma seeds in their mindstream to wherever they take rebirth again. This way, there might be a slight chance for autonomy for Tibet in the distant future. More hope this way. Tibet and Dalai Lama cannot fight China. No one in the world can fight China.
I find the option B would be much better for the Tibetan people in Tibet. For the Dharma to grow and increase in the world through China.
Tk
-
No one in the world can fight China.
I find the option B would be much better for the Tibetan people in Tibet. For the Dharma to grow and increase in the world through China.
Tk
Dear TK,
Thank you for putting things into perspective.
I had not thought about it quite like that.
I think at this point in time, it is safe to say that China is very powerful, if not the most.
Even in fashion. Previously in all the runways shows like Fashion Week in Paris, we would never see Chinese Mainlanders sitting in the front row. In the past, there were hardly any Chinese at all attending these high profile fashion shows - safe for the big Asian stars. This year, at the front rows at Paris Fashion Week were all mostly Chinese.
In one of the business magazines, I read that the Chinese are the biggest buyers of private jets and helicopters in the world. In fact, the Chinese from Wenzhou bought about 21 private jets and helicopters. They even sell private planes and helicopters at shopping malls in Wenzhou. Now, that brings shopping to whole different level.
I picked these two to cite because it shows that the Chinese are moving up. So, imagine that kind of affluence, power and might. Their sheer no. of size, people and financial status give China a very strong stature in the world.
Hence, with Dharma, imagine how much the Chinese can do for the entire world - not just limited to Tibet and China. Imagine what anyone can do, when he or she has Dharma.
I find the Option you have proposed to be the most beneficial of all.
It benefits the people and then the world over. Not just themselves.
You are right to stress that without Dharma - there will be many more people who will suffer and they in turn may cause much more suffering for others in the world.
With Dharma, everyone wins - Chinese, Tibetan, Americans, Europeans, etc.
Everyone wins! I much prefer a plan or option that enables everyone to win.
And eventhough the present generation may not experience the benefits of the Dharma seeds that we have planted during our time, it is ok. As when the Dharma seeds blossom in the future, the benefits will be thousand fold. So, we pay forward in this sense.
With this option, we would have done something much more valuable than just complaining, fighting, arguing or staying stubbornly fixed in our own 'limited views'.
I like this proposed path. This also allows me to look beyond myself. And next time when I get into a challenging situation, I would also think deeper - whether would I benefit anyone with Dharma in the long run or deny them the chance to make a connection with Dharma in the first place.
The fate of a billion over people definitely warrants much consideration and compassion, regardless of what citizenship they hold.
Everyone deserves the Dharma, especially a Protector Practice that will be swift and powerful enough to help them.
Thank you kindly for sharing your thoughts.
Have a good day or evening, TK - wherever you are.
What a beautiful post to read just before I call it a night, and will hold onto these hope-filled thoughts.
Have a good one, everybody!
-
I'm beginning to think this site is moderated for political correctness towards the Dalai Lama.
What part of 'Dorje Shugden is a Chinese spirit, Shugden practitioners beat and kill and they are paid by the Chinese Government' did you think was toned down? What part of the Dalai Lama's speech, designed to instigate strong feelings of hatred towards Shugden practitioners did you think was toned down? I didn't see it. Did I miss a memo?
I also think that TK thinking that the Dalai Lama is offering religious freedom is a bit unrealistic. As the Dalai Lama said, he instituted A BAN on the practice, so where's the freedom to practice? The freedom is only 'from the Dalai Lama's mouth' - in reality, Shugden practitioners are still ostracised from their community for not rejecting the practice in accordance with the Dalai Lama's demand to stop practising.
Why are you all Dalai Lama apologists when it is clear that he hasn't changed his stance towards Shugden and will use any public meeting to keep bringing it up, creating more and more disharmony in the Buddhist community? He's now trying to claim that the Tibetan Government in Exile is being 'infiltrated' by China who also happen to be Dorje Shugden practitioners (that is the inference that is being drawn in this article):
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Tibetan-government-in-exile-fears-Chinese-infiltrations/Article1-597536.aspx
I think you see what you want to see, but what you want to see is not the truth.
-
I'm beginning to think this site is moderated for political correctness towards the Dalai Lama.
Dear Lineageholder. This site does believe that the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden are spreading the Dharma together. This site is NOT moderated for political correctness towards the Dalai Lama and has no reason to be politically inclined. It is a platform to promote Dorje Shugden.
Why are you all Dalai Lama apologists when it is clear that he hasn't changed his stance towards Shugden and will use any public meeting to keep bringing it up, creating more and more disharmony in the Buddhist community? He's now trying to claim that the Tibetan Government in Exile is being 'infiltrated' by China who also happen to be Dorje Shugden practitioners (that is the inference that is being drawn in this article):
This is a forum full of individuals expressing their opinions. Please do not generalise nor make personal remarks about other forum participants. Discuss the matter at hand without getting personal.
-
Ah, such good news and also something I have been noticing. Yes, lineageholder points out that he does still hold a very strong stance against the practice of shugden, but the approach is noticeably softening. This is not the first instance where he advises dharma practitioners to decide for themselves. He has also advised people to investigate any practice more thoroughly for themselves, to ponder the benefits and disbenefits. This I saw as a direct hint for people to check things out for themselves.
With all the information out there, it is clear that these people will sooner or later find out who Dorje Shugden really is – not a spirit but a Buddha – and begin to investigate more and even practice. If it was really the case that he is denouncing the practice, it would make more sense to continue along the same lines he has been for the last god-knows-how-many-decades about it being bad! bad! bad! And denouncing it full stop, NOT tell people to go find out for themselves before deciding! Now, the dalai lama hands them over directly to Dorje Shugden.
-
I'm beginning to think this site is moderated for political correctness towards the Dalai Lama.
What part of 'Dorje Shugden is a Chinese spirit, Shugden practitioners beat and kill and they are paid by the Chinese Government' did you think was toned down? What part of the Dalai Lama's speech, designed to instigate strong feelings of hatred towards Shugden practitioners did you think was toned down? I didn't see it. Did I miss a memo?
I also think that TK thinking that the Dalai Lama is offering religious freedom is a bit unrealistic. As the Dalai Lama said, he instituted A BAN on the practice, so where's the freedom to practice? The freedom is only 'from the Dalai Lama's mouth' - in reality, Shugden practitioners are still ostracised from their community for not rejecting the practice in accordance with the Dalai Lama's demand to stop practising.
Why are you all Dalai Lama apologists when it is clear that he hasn't changed his stance towards Shugden and will use any public meeting to keep bringing it up, creating more and more disharmony in the Buddhist community? He's now trying to claim that the Tibetan Government in Exile is being 'infiltrated' by China who also happen to be Dorje Shugden practitioners (that is the inference that is being drawn in this article):
[url]http://www.hindustantimes.com/Tibetan-government-in-exile-fears-Chinese-infiltrations/Article1-597536.aspx[/url]
I think you see what you want to see, but what you want to see is not the truth.
Well, of course, it would not be “possible” for the dalai lama to completely stop what he has been saying – he has gone too far to go back and change the tone completely. Yes, what he is saying is still not pleasant but then again, compared to the rhetoric and statement of years past, it simply cannot be denied that he is changing his tune somewhat and has “softened” in the approach: From a hardline, hard-hitting position of “no you must not practice, there will be trouble for you if you do” to “find out for yourself, investigate yourself, decide for yourself” – that is definitely a change.
There’s not a total change but there is SOME CHANGE and I think this is worth some rejoicing.
Please also heed the advice of DSfriend who is only trying to be a true friend to all of us here on this forum. Please do not make general sweeping statements about other forum posters and their views. We are all entitled to them. We respect your views, and hope you can respect ours to; at the very least, agree to disagree instead of always just prodding at each other or putting down others' views.
Thank you.
humbly, beggar
-
Well, I actually do not think that the Dalai Lama is ever going to come down on his decree against Dorje Shugden. If any apparent soft stance as mentioned in this thread is merely because he is in compliance with warnings to tone down his anti-shugden approach. If the Dalai Lama really wanted to promote Dorje Shugden world-wide and to ensure that his legacy is to spread it as he has been, he would not relent till his very last breath.
No matter how hard he campaigns against Dorje Shugden, there is no way he will ever be able to wipe out this practice anyway. So his legacy will be to spread Dorje Shugden although very few people will understand or even comprehend this but its effects will be vast. I look forward to the next generation of Lamas like Panchen Rinpoche in China, Choktrul Trijang Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche, etc etc take over the lead....
PS: It is really nice to see where Pabongka Rinpoche is already establishing himself in China - the spiritual homeland of his past incarnations when he was tutors to the previous rulers of China - the Qing Emperors.
-
I think you see what you want to see, but what you want to see is not the truth
As much as it can be applied to us, it can also be applied to you. Not saying that to be smarmy but the simple fact is that none of us here, including you and me, are enlightened. Therefore our views will always be clouded and deluded. Until we reach a state of such clarity, what you and I believe is not the truth...the truth is the full realisation of emptiness, karma and impermanence.
2. Abbotship of Serpom
Since he stays in China most of the time, to be the abbot of Serpom would incite the ignorant lay ppl living in surrounding camps to say that Serpom is being funded by Chinese Govt which of course is not true and has never been the case. The only way the Tibetan Govt now can incite hatred against the peaceful Dorje Shugden institutions/practitioner is to say they are traitors as they recieve financial support from the Chinese Govt. Silly and ridiculous as it sounds. So out of compassion, His Holiness Kyabje Pabongka declined taking the throne of Serpom as it's first abbot, hence they requested Kyabje Yongyal Rinpoche who graciously accepted.
Speaking of not being enlightened, that really is the only way they can incite hatred. It's the same thing people on other forums like Phayul repeat; they accuse you of being on the Chinese payroll, of being a traitor because there's no other way they can get you. It always goes back to me being Communist.
Taking Pabongka Rinpoche as an example we can all aspire towards (since he's really the one who created the causes for all of us to come together in practice), it's sad how many can't be more like him, and they have to win and prove their side is right. A friend told me last night that when you proclaim you're great, it's less fulfilling than when someone tells you you're great. Same thing really - when you keep shouting that your message's the right one, it can sometimes look a little desperate.
That's why I never keep my door open to Jehovah Witnesses ;)
-
I'm beginning to think this site is moderated for political correctness towards the Dalai Lama.
What part of 'Dorje Shugden is a Chinese spirit, Shugden practitioners beat and kill and they are paid by the Chinese Government' did you think was toned down? What part of the Dalai Lama's speech, designed to instigate strong feelings of hatred towards Shugden practitioners did you think was toned down? I didn't see it. Did I miss a memo?
If the Serpom monks themselves are saying that Dalai Lama has toned down his Shugden policy, then I give some weight to that statement. These monks have suffered under Dalai Lama's policy much more than any of us on this forum have. So they would know best if there is a change of tone.
Whether this is because of the legal case or because Dalai Lama is starting a subtle change in his policy, well, only he himself would know. Its good for Shugden practitioners either way. I regret that they took a religious figure to court, i find it disrespectful but it is better than the protests in 2008. Those did not give a good impression of the sangha whereas the court case seems more proper in a secular sense.
I also think that TK thinking that the Dalai Lama is offering religious freedom is a bit unrealistic. As the Dalai Lama said, he instituted A BAN on the practice, so where's the freedom to practice? The freedom is only 'from the Dalai Lama's mouth' - in reality, Shugden practitioners are still ostracised from their community for not rejecting the practice in accordance with the Dalai Lama's demand to stop practising.
I agree that Dalai Lama offering religions freedom is rather optimistic. He would look really foolish for turning back on his statement, seeing how much trouble, pain & suffering the ban has caused. Not to mention anger, disbelief, disrespect from global spectators. But a softening of the policy is possible and if Dalai Lama continues to speak in this tone within the lay Tibetan community, perhaps the common man will catch on and give our counterparts relief from the discrimination they are facing.
I write from hope, whether foolish or not, that someday this divide will end and Gelugpa Buddhism can once again unite to be what the great Tsongkhapa envisioned it to be.
-
If the Serpom monks themselves are saying that Dalai Lama has toned down his Shugden policy, then I give some weight to that statement. These monks have suffered under Dalai Lama's policy much more than any of us on this forum have. So they would know best if there is a change of tone.
That's a really good point. I think it's healthier to maintain a more optimistic outlook and find a way to make the situation work in our favour for now, instead of merely to just continue "nay-saying".
It's interesting to note that the Sangha seem to always be far more optimistic and open-minded than us LOL Compare this to the news about the incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. Monks from Shar Gaden kept an open mind and were interested/ happy to hear the news, instead of merely pooh-poohing it away. It seems to be something similar in this case, where they are keeping a more open mind to the dalai lama's change in tone. Perhaps we can learn to adopt this positive attitude!
-
If the Serpom monks themselves are saying that Dalai Lama has toned down his Shugden policy, then I give some weight to that statement. These monks have suffered under Dalai Lama's policy much more than any of us on this forum have. So they would know best if there is a change of tone.
Whether this is because of the legal case or because Dalai Lama is starting a subtle change in his policy, well, only he himself would know. Its good for Shugden practitioners either way. I regret that they took a religious figure to court, i find it disrespectful but it is better than the protests in 2008. Those did not give a good impression of the sangha whereas the court case seems more proper in a secular sense.
I agree that Dalai Lama offering religions freedom is rather optimistic. He would look really foolish for turning back on his statement, seeing how much trouble, pain & suffering the ban has caused. Not to mention anger, disbelief, disrespect from global spectators. But a softening of the policy is possible and if Dalai Lama continues to speak in this tone within the lay Tibetan community, perhaps the common man will catch on and give our counterparts relief from the discrimination they are facing.
I write from hope, whether foolish or not, that someday this divide will end and Gelugpa Buddhism can once again unite to be what the great Tsongkhapa envisioned it to be.
Hey Duldzin - I'm happy to see another optimist :)
Thanks for bringing up the point re the softening feedback coming from Serpom Sangha. That's a very good point.
I also agree with you that whether the softening of the Dalai Lama's tone is due to the court case or not, as long as it lessens harm to Shugden practitioners who have been under persecution for so long, i'm sure it's as welcome as spring water in a desert. Especially in the Tibetan refugee communities where Shugden practitioners experience ostracism most acutely.
It'll be interesting to see subsequent public addresses by the Dalai Lama.
Thank you to participants in this forum for keeping us posted!
-
Everything in good time :)
That is what I believe - firmly and strongly.
As I have great faith in my Lama and Protector - I know that Enlightened Beings plan for things to manifest way in advance - like centuries ahead. They have created the causes and planted the seeds from way back then for all the right conditions to ripen at different times.
Even Buddha has hidden many scared and precious objects in different places and prophesized that these will be discovered in due time by certain individuals. No different than when Lama Tsongkhapa discovered the conch shell that was buried by Buddha Shakyamuni and built Gaden in that same place.
And just because we do hold optimistic views and have faith in both Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden does not make us any less of a practitioner or less devoted or less learned.
When it is all said and done, we shall bear witness to the truth. And like WB, I pray that I live to see the day when Dorje Shugden is EVERYWHERE.
-
Thank you for sharing with us this good news. Is this the beginning of dawn that the Dalai Lama has toned down now on Lord Shugden? If this good news persists and continues, it could be the beginning of the teaching of Lord Shugden raving like wild fire spreading from people to people, province to province and nation to nation across the globe. Many people will benefit and surely it will catch on in China where there are masses of spiritually hungry people waiting to embrace Lord Shugden.
Isn’t this the skillfull method of the Dalai Lama to create publicity and ensuring that Lord Shugden, the most powerful protector of today will strive on and flourish, and be revitalized especially in China? Yes, I believe Dorje Shugden/Dalai Lama is working together to spread the dharma although it may not appear so as. prophesized by Trijang Rinpoche. How profoundly moving these great beings work to benefit numberless beings!
-
It is our true hope by understanding Dorje Shugden better, it removes the 'faults' of the lineage lamas. By the lineage lamas having no faults as wrongly described by the TGIE, people will gain faith in them and congregate to them for teachings. This is our hope. What prevents people from going to these lineage lamas is that they practice/teach Dorje Shugden. So if Dorje Shugden's practice is made clear, it will exonerate the holy lineage lamas. Then people will not criticize the lineage lamas. The lineage lamas alive today will not be seen as deviant, hence many will flock to recieve teachings from them. Far from being deviant, the lineage lamas are perfect vessels of BuddhaDharma. This website definitely promotes BuddhaDharma via Dorje Shugden.
We are very happy you can make Dorje Shugden well known in the world as it will definitely help the Lineage of Tsongkapa expand in this degenerate age.
Mana
-
Thank you for the exciting and happy update! It is wonderful news that the monks at Serpom did not receive ill treatment recently. It is also exciting to hear about Pabongka Rinpoche’s regular visits and teachings to spread pure Dharma understanding and practice in this powerful and influential nation.
In reading the writing, the matter regarding receiving funds from the Chinese government left a strong impression. It is difficult to understand why receiving fund from the Chinese government is so bad that individuals or monasteries who do so would be exposed to harsh criticism and alienation. Should the importance not be on the benefit acceptance of the contribution can cause? In receiving funds from anybody, whether they are a Saint, a murderer, the Chinese government etc., we can cause:
1) The spread of Dharma so that it will touch more people who have not been touched by Dharma.
2) The opportunity for the contributor to develop affinity to Dharma and a chance for Dharma understanding and practice to realize.
3) The opportunity for the "bad" people to purify their negative karma and develop the merits to one day practice Dharma. If such judgement and conditions is practiced in Buddhadharma, The Great Milarepa would not have been.
In being selective and judging who is “entitled” to give to the Dharma seem un-Buddhist and unkind. This act in itself is the practice of non-forgiveness and obscuring the growth of Buddhadharma.
-
Shugdenprotect, thank you for your sharing re the Chinese government. This is when politics get mixed with religion when it shouldn't be. it is the very judgmental attitude that will destroy our spirituality from within. It's been mentioned on another thread that we should use discriminating wisdom to judge but how can we do that when we don't have discriminating wisdom to start off with.
i remember it being said that Buddhism will eventually be destroyed from within than without - isn't that a scary warning and something we should all take heed to assess if what we are doing will contribute to the Dharma growing or dying.
As Mana says above - by promoting our lineage lamas, people will gain faith in them and thus in the teachings they give, and through promoting Dorje Shugden's practice, our obstacles will clear, Dharma will grow and people will become happier and more at peace.
Everything is interlinked.
-
Well said, ShugdenProtect & WB!
Everyone deserves the Dharma and it does mean, every single one!
Because the reason Bodhisattvas and Buddhas emanate is to free every sentient being from samsara. Therefore, as long as one person is still in samsara, they have to come back and help them.
In this respect, everyone who can make a connection with the Three Jewels in whatever way or form is something to rejoice about.
YES, EVERYTHING WE DO WILL CONTRIBUTE TO THE GROWTH OF DHARMA OR THE DEATH OF DHARMA.
Hence, think very deeply and wisely about one's own actions of body, speech and mind.
And there is no need for long justifications and explanations because the results will reveal the truth.
-
The Dorje Shugden ban issue has been brought to the limelight and it's all because of His Holiness's hard work. His Holiness is so compassionate that He is willing put Himself through all these contradictions and issues. Some people may not look at it this way but it doesn't matter, its freedom of thought. May the ban be lifted very quickly and smoothly.
-
The Dorje Shugden ban issue has been brought to the limelight and it's all because of His Holiness's hard work.
In the same way, the massacre of children in Africa has been brought to the limelight, and it's all because of Boko Haram extremists' hard work.
Also, the crucifixion of Christians in Iraq has been brought to the limelight, and it's all because of Islamic State terrorists' hard work.
Your main concern is with limelight, and you rejoice on the suffering of others as long as it brings 15 minutes of fame to your religious brand.
Everyday one can find on the newspapers people who commit the most heinous crimes such as murdering just in order to achieve some flickering fame, and to appear in the news.
Such is the power of the eight worldly concerns, which control the mind of the foolish. Such people are controlled by their primitive, compulsive need to catch the attention of others.
Therefore, you are just projecting your own unresolved psychological deficiencies on to a social-religious issue, transferring to the outside what you have not been able to resolve inside.
His Holiness is so compassionate that He is willing put Himself through all these contradictions and issues.
This is like saying that a murderer is so compassionate to put himself through many social and legal problems in order to benefit his victims with their murdering. According to you, crime is a compassionate activity.
Some people may not look at it this way but it doesn't matter, its freedom of thought.
Right, as much as being under the power of the eight worldy concerns as you are is a case of enslavement of thought.
May the ban be lifted very quickly and smoothly.
Why so? Wasn't it the act of a great mahasiddha?