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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Robert Thomas on October 28, 2010, 08:25:12 PM
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My wife just watched a tv show about this amazingly gifted 8 year old painter.
Simplest explanation of such gifts is surely past lives:
http://www.kieronwilliamson.com/
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Your wife may appreciate art by Akiane also. Akiane is one of my favorite artist..
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It is much easier to believe there are past lives than having only one lifetime.
We experience proofs on a daily basis to recognize this truth...
If we have past lives, and this current life, then we surely must have future lives...
May Dorje Shugden protect us in this life and all future lives until we achieve bodhicitta.
best wishes
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One day I heard a Lama say this to a western audience:
"Most of you are demanding that past and future lives be proven.
Think that in other parts/cultures of the world, other people are challenging YOU to come up with proofs that they do not exist."
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Imprints from past lives of people are not just seen in the buddhist world, as a matter of fact, it is even seen in Western culture and many others, whereby the belief of reincarnation is not in their religion.
It is becasue nothing is permanent, that we can eradicate any selfish thoughts by practicing the dharma, and it is because of imprints, that we can continue to improve our mind to achieve bodhichitta (wisdom and compassion).
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Buddhism provides a logical explanation to the astounding “special gifts/talents” that some young children have. It is on this same basis that tulkus are recognized.
However, this special knowledge/attainment must be recognized and nurtured preferably at young age while the imprints are still strong. It is said that if tulkus are not given the conducive condition to further develop their attainments , some may suffer from the “tulku disease”. I read about this in the biography of Chokyam Trumpa, a Kagyu high Lama.
The main differences between a tulku and a prodigy are :
1) The former can control his rebirth as a result of spiritual training while the later is subject to the winds of his karma
2) The above is due to the former’s motivation in existence is not self based while the later still 100% self centred
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However, this special knowledge/attainment must be recognized and nurtured preferably at young age while the imprints are still strong. It is said that if tulkus are not given the conducive condition to further develop their attainments , some may suffer from the “tulku decease”. I read about this in the biography of Chokyam Trumpa, a Kagyu high Lama.
Dear Kurava,
Can you elaborate a bit more what is "Tulku decease"? A tulku is already fully attained, why would they still need to be further developed?
Thank you
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I read about "tulku disease" from the book, "Dragon Thunder: My Life with Chogyam Trungpa" by Diana J. Mukpo.
On page 138 : The Tibetans believe that if a Tulku is not recognized, enthroned and properly educated, he will develop mental illness, a kind of "tulku's disease" because he is not fulfilling the role that is intended for him....
I would assume that some tulkus may not be fully enlightened yet,they are highly attained bodhisattvas. If the tulku's attainments from previous lives are not further developed or given the proper training in the current lifetime, their attainments may degenerate or even suffer from the tulku's disease.
Anyone else have something to share on this?
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Dear Kurava,
I have not read about "tulku disease" before, but it makes total sense to me now that you have explained it to us.
I can imagine the same would apply to every individual.
We are all bestowed with unique and different talents or gifts - whether we are highly attained Lamas or Tulkus or not. Every single person is good at something.
So, if an individual had not received the right help, education, nurturing and training as a child - then this individual may not blossom into his or her fullest potential. Hence, he or she will not realise who he or she is meant to be and can be.
In life, we may not always get so lucky and meet with the 'right conditions' to cultivate our best into its full bloom. Hence, we do lose out so much in the end.
If we all had only receive the 'right' help and training from the very start, imagine how far we each can go and what we can accomplish in one lifetime.
For some, even if they had the golden opportunity to meet with the 'right conditions', they may not have the merits to stay with it and persevere through the end.
Knowledge from past lives do exist. It explains our natural preferences for things and people, even as a child who has not been exposed to any outside environment as yet.
Our past imprints do leave a strong trace within us all. It is up to us how we will use it - be it for the betterment of ourselves or for the worse.
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I read about "tulku disease" from the book, "Dragon Thunder: My Life with Chogyam Trungpa" by Diana J. Mukpo.
On page 138 : The Tibetans believe that if a Tulku is not recognized, enthroned and properly educated, he will develop mental illness, a kind of "tulku's disease" because he is not fulfilling the role that is intended for him....
I would assume that some tulkus may not be fully enlightened yet,they are highly attained bodhisattvas. If the tulku's attainments from previous lives are not further developed or given the proper training in the current lifetime, their attainments may degenerate or even suffer from the tulku's disease.
Anyone else have something to share on this?
What I heard of is when a tulku cannot fulfill his role, he may opt to cut short his life and enter clear light earlier.
I wonder if there are any living examples of "Tulku diseases" now?
Anyone has anything to share?
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I read about "tulku disease" from the book, "Dragon Thunder: My Life with Chogyam Trungpa" by Diana J. Mukpo.
On page 138 : The Tibetans believe that if a Tulku is not recognized, enthroned and properly educated, he will develop mental illness, a kind of "tulku's disease" because he is not fulfilling the role that is intended for him....
I would assume that some tulkus may not be fully enlightened yet,they are highly attained bodhisattvas. If the tulku's attainments from previous lives are not further developed or given the proper training in the current lifetime, their attainments may degenerate or even suffer from the tulku's disease.
Anyone else have something to share on this?
What I heard of is when a tulku cannot fulfill his role, he may opt to cut short his life and enter clear light earlier.
I wonder if there are any living examples of "Tulku diseases" now?
Anyone has anything to share?
Steven segal ? :D
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Thank you Robert Thomas for sharing the link. Lord Buddha's remembrance of thousands of past lives during the first watch of the night he achieved omnipotent enlightenment gave rise to a vast body of Buddhist literature, in many versions, called the Jatakas or Tales of the Buddha's Past Lives. I guess for those who is not a believer, then we have to rely on the field of science/ psychiatry/psychology for answers.
I have watched a documentary that involves Brian Weiss, M.D., an American psychiatrist whose research includes reincarnation and past life regression.
Weiss was not a believer in reincarnation but, after confirming elements of a patient's past-life stories through research into public records, came to be convinced of the survival of an element of the human personality after death. Since 1980, Weiss claims he has regressed more than 4,000 patients. He is a frequent guest on national television and radio talk shows, including: Oprah, Coast to Coast AM, Larry King Live etc and has 7 books on the subject of reincarnation.
There are many critics of past life regression, but it is not something that is made up. Past life regression is mentioned in the old cultures, such as in the Upanishads of ancient India, and Three Lives Book, which Chinese numerologists use the Buddhist/Taoist text the to describe details of past lives.
Also, although Christianity doesn't preach reincarnation, but I've read before some scriptural excerpts that are proof that reincarnation is accepted (although not popularised) - read Scriptural support for reincarnation at http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen3.html.
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I have watched a documentary that involves Brian Weiss, M.D., an American psychiatrist whose research includes reincarnation and past life regression.
Weiss was not a believer in reincarnation but, after confirming elements of a patient's past-life stories through research into public records, came to be convinced of the survival of an element of the human personality after death. Since 1980, Weiss claims he has regressed more than 4,000 patients. He is a frequent guest on national television and radio talk shows, including: Oprah, Coast to Coast AM, Larry King Live etc and has 7 books on the subject of reincarnation.
I have read Dr Brian Weiss's book "Many lives, many masters". Infact this was the first book he published after being convinced on the concept of "life after death". What prompted him to have the urge to write this book was the astonishing records of one of his patients who came to seek help from him , and who under hypnosis, revealed her past lives experience in circumstances that could not be a made-up account. And the people she met and knew in her past lives' account were the ones whom she knows at present, one of which including Dr Weiss himself.
He and his wife had documented and recorded all the hypnosis sessions and only after a few years later that he decided to publish his findings. He himself was originally a non-believer of reincarnation and as he claimed, he did not believe in anything that is superstitious.
Once again, another strong proof of reincarnation.
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Re the tulku disease mentioned earlier, i haven't heard of this at all so I think it's fascinating. I mean how do you prove that someone has tulku disease if someone isn't recognised as a tulku to start with and hence does not go through the monastic education system, enthronement etc.
I have read somewhere before that tulkus can decide to shorten their lives if they feel that they are not able to fulfil their role as a Dharma teacher or practitioner. I'm just curious though why they choose to enter clear light and start all over again rather than move geographically to another location where they can practice or teach to a more conducive crowd?
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I'm just curious though why they choose to enter clear light and start all over again rather than move geographically to another location where they can practice or teach to a more conducive crowd?
I think perhaps it is not as simple as just moving to another place, as there is merit/karma involved on the part of the students - perhaps the people that he is supposed to teach at that time run out of merit, or do not do what they are supposed to do. Other people in other parts of the world may not have the merit yet or their karma may not have opened yet for them to receive his teachings. So perhaps by taking rebirth again, some other causes are created for him to come across the right group, whose merit may be ready at the time.
These is just my thoughts... I guess the Lamas have much bigger plans for us that we often cannot fathom! :D
There are also some Lamas who (on outward appearances) "choose" to go away from the path (which I think is different from the tulku disease). A famous example of the 6th Dalai Lama who seemed to live a life that was not at all what is expected of a high Lama / monastic, but when he died, they uncovered many writings of his which indicated his very high attainments. Lama Osel, in this incarnation, also seems to have cut short his monastic training and given back his robes to take on a lay life. I cannot explain this - there must be numerous reasons for this of course which we cannot overtly grasp yet.
One theory I have heard about why some Lamas "go away" from the path (or so it seems) is that their students have created a break in samaya and therefore create the cause for themselves to be away from their Lamas and not receive the teachings.
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One theory I have heard about why some Lamas "go away" from the path (or so it seems) is that their students have created a break in samaya and therefore create the cause for themselves to be away from their Lamas and not receive the teachings.
This shows that a teacher only makes sense if:
1. there are students to teach to,
2. that these students practice the teachings.
It is all wonderful to listen to teachings, but if nobody practices the teachings, there is no purpose for the teacher.
A Dharma teaching is not another form of entertainment.
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One theory I have heard about why some Lamas "go away" from the path (or so it seems) is that their students have created a break in samaya and therefore create the cause for themselves to be away from their Lamas and not receive the teachings.
This shows that a teacher only makes sense if:
1. there are students to teach to,
2. that these students practice the teachings.
It is all wonderful to listen to teachings, but if nobody practices the teachings, there is no purpose for the teacher.
A Dharma teaching is not another form of entertainment.
The Lama goes away or does not manifest his previous lives' activities because it is a last great teaching to the students of his previous lives to change now. The students would have countless warnings and teachings beforehand to understand the significance of this move. This drastic move is because all other methods had failed in the past and I think the Lama has to compassionately let his students realize things before it is too late. Every teaching and action by the Lama is motivated by compassion... Even the very act of separation.
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It is all wonderful to listen to teachings, but if nobody practices the teachings, there is no purpose for the teacher.
A Dharma teaching is not another form of entertainment.
Well said. And should be taken as a reminder always.
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Such an interesting discussion here.
I think we can see a real life example of this happening - when the students do not practice the teachings or have gone against the teacher's wishes or instructions, the teacher's great work cannot manifest.
Hence, if the teacher's great work cannot manifest, the teacher will not see any point in staying.
More than going away, the teacher may even leave and disrobe.
Case in point, Lama Yeshe's current incarnation, Lama Osel.
It is beyond sad. It is a tragedy!
A teacher's great compassionate work will benefit so so many beings. Hundreds and possibly even thousands. Not just this lifetime, but even consider how much Dharma seeds he or she could have planted as well.
Without the teacher, no student can come into his or her full potential.
Not only does our path to Enlightenment ends, we have also destroyed the precious chance for others to gain any sort of Enlightenment and Dharma.
That is a HUGE LOSS.
Immeasurable.
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Case in point, Lama Yeshe's current incarnation, Lama Osel.
It is beyond sad. It is a tragedy!
What will happen to FPMT in the near future when Lama Zopa manifests impermanence?