See what Dalai Lama says re Tulku Dakpa Gyeltsen in 1978!

[Ensapa]

This old post is a good read as we can see again how illogical the reasons given and the contradiction in what the Dalai Lama says about Dorje Shugden/Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen.

Either the Dalai Lama is not that bright or the Dalai Lama has something different in mind? I definitely do not think the Dalai Lama is unaware about how He contradicts himself on numerous occasions. I honestly think it is on purpose.  And if He is Chenrezig as many believe... then how can a Buddha be harmed by a spirit? If we buy that then why bother praying to the Buddhas?

And now the Dalai Lama has resigned from being the Tibetan's "temporal leader" and from politics, this means the new PM is responsible for the well being of Tibetan's in exile... and the rules/laws can be changed.

For one, no democratic govt ever touches or talk about spirituality because democracy stands for ethical equal rights for all, and this applies to spirituality, and definite do not "Ban" them! Lets see what the new PM will do for his own people iregardless of their spiritual practice. Because whatever their spiritual beliefs may be, they are still Tibetan. If the carry on banning DS the might as well ban those in Bon religion also. 

Lets hope this will change since most of the things/facts can be change... like the practice your Guru gives you.

Or perhaps, Trijang Rinpoche gave instructions to HHDL to "enact" the ban after his passing for reasons that we can only speculate at this time because I cannot see or think of a reason for why the Dalai Lama would "change" his stance on Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen within a space of 1-2 years. It does not seem like something that a high lama like HHDL would do as he has been consistently wise all along.

The sudden change and transaction is really odd for even an ordinary person to have, especially if he or she is famous and well known for having mastered the scriptures and has done extensive study and practice on the Dharma. It was as if there was a trigger that switched HHDL's mind to be of that way. He was doing Dorje Shugden all along until Trijang Rinpoche's passing, which is incidentally, also the same time when the ban materialized.

However, lets look at the issues that has been unearthed due to the ban: the innate sectarian nature of the other traditions against Gelug has been revealed and unearthed. Their hate and unhappiness towards Dorje Shugden is nothing but a reflection of their discomfort of the amount of spiritual grandness and political power that the Gelugs have which are more than them. Everyone has been hiding their unhappiness over Gelug all along, and now it is all out in the open.

The ban also revealed the superstitious nature of the Tibetans which are very decremental to Buddhism and the Dharma, and at the same time becomes a huge obstacle towards their so called independence movement against China. If they are not even independent against the old ways that no longer work now, how can they even hope to gain independence against China? Now that they are revealed…i do hope that the Ban's purpose is fulfilled and it would be lifted.

[pgdharma]

“Dalai Lama says that Trijang Rinpoche is highly attained and can control Dorje Shugden hence he is allowed to practice.”

If Trijang Rinpoche can control Dorje Shugden, then why not ask Trijang Rinpoche to control Dorje Shugden so that DS will not harm and shorten HHDL’s life. Besides, as HHDL is also highly attained, why didn’t he control Dorje Shugden if he believes Dorje Shugden is a spirit? Also how can a spirit harm and shorten his life. This is so illogical. Whatever HHDL is doing now, I think he has a reason for it. The 5th Dalai Lama built a temple for Dorje Shugden when he realized his mistake that he had wronged Dorje Shugden. Will the 14th Dalai Lama built a temple to honor Dorje Shugden when the ban is lifted? Let us wait for the time when the truth prevails.

[Positive Change]

"It is my view that Tulku Dakpa Gyaltsen's instinctive behaviour and ways of thinking were good. I have looked at his Collected Works which also contain his secret biography. He seems to have been good in his studies and to have a gentle subdued mind. In his biography there are a few Guru Yoga texts, one of which has Buddha Shakyamuni in the center and around him: Guru Rinpoche [Padmasambhava] (9th century) surrounded by the Guru lineage of the Nyingma Order, Sachen Kunga Nyingpo (1092-1158) surrounded by the Guru lineage of the Sakya order; Marpa (1012-1097), Mila (1052-1135) and Dwagpo (1079-1161) surrounded by the Guru Lineage of Kagyud order; Je-Rinpoche [Tsong Khapa] (1375-419) and his two spiritual sons surrounded by the Gurus of Gelug order;.... teachings of past Sakya, Gelug, Kagyud and Nyingma masters are summarized and it is explained that one should pay homage and recite eulogies through recollecting their qualities. At the conclusion, he explains that a boundless crime based on contemporary sectarianism produces causes to be thrown into bad realms and that he had written this Guru Yoga deliberately to avoid such negative results. Having seen that, I thought it was good. Usually, Gyalchen [Dorje Shugden] is considered a biased deity, since there was this account in the Collected Works of Dakpa Gyaltsen, I thought it was good."

From the Fourteenth Dalai Lama's talk on July 13th, 1978.
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The above was extracted from: http://www.shugdensociety.info/Bernis2EN.html

I had been told before that a sign of enlightened beings is that they are consistent in what they say.
Indeed, a high lama does not speak with contradictions, even if we compare statements from 30 years ago to now.

Yet, I see an exception in this, especially in what The Dalai Lama says about Dorje Shugden. I do not mean to cast doubt on the enlightened qualities of His Holiness, in fact quite frankly I am highlighting the obvious. The "contradiction" in HHDL's speech about Dorje Shugden is so immense that logic points more to a skill in action rather than to a mind of contradiction.

I am reviving this post, because reading the Dalai Lama's words about Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen made my heart rejoice and so I thought it would also warm many other's hearts when they read it.

[WisdomBeing]

Positive Change, yes, it was a great reminder. I did feel heartened when I read the Dalai Lama’s words in 1978 about Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. Again, what I liked best was that reference about his guru yoga texts which far from being sectarian, seem to integrate all traditions into one. Perhaps Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen founded the Rime movement! And perhaps HH the Dalai Lama became more inclined to Rime after reading about Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen!

What do you think?

[Ensapa]

Positive Change, yes, it was a great reminder. I did feel heartened when I read the Dalai Lama’s words in 1978 about Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. Again, what I liked best was that reference about his guru yoga texts which far from being sectarian, seem to integrate all traditions into one. Perhaps Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen founded the Rime movement! And perhaps HH the Dalai Lama became more inclined to Rime after reading about Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen!

What do you think?

For me, the obvious thing is that Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen and Dorje Shugden were never sectarian. They just wanted the Dharma students to focus more on mastering their own traditions rather than spreading themselves thin which also has an adverse effect on the minds of the other students who observe their behavior. Once we have mastered one tradition, it would basically be the same as mastering the rest of the traditions, because the core concepts and attainments and results are exactly the same: enlightenment, bodhicitta, realization of emptiness, development of skillful means. Only the outside methods differ. Once those are mastered, then whatever external methods use can differ radically but the end results will still be the same and it will make no difference. Before that happens, mixing traditions around is not beneficial. I think this passage to me, i feel, highlights this point. The Lamas that Dorje Shugden warned in the yellow book would probably do irreversible damage to their own practice and to the lineage if not for the warning.

No matter how it seems, HHDL's actions are consistent with him supporting Dorje Shugden even though outwardly he manifested a ban and also spoke out against him. Why would he chuckle when he mentioned that Dorje Shugden is growing in hong kong and in singapore? he would have said it with a stern and unhappy expression to show his disapproval and displeasure. Obviously, the ban is just an act of some sorts although the causalities are quite high from it.

[michaela]

The idea of Gyalchen Dorje Shugden being an ordinary spirits was voiced by the attendants of the 5th Dalai Lama.  After hundreds of years, it is amazing that the ban against his practice is being resurrected based on the unfounded reasoning that were made by some jealous individuals years ago. 

I am very sad when I heard about the split of Gaden Shartse and Shar Gaden.  I visited Gaden Shartse before the split and everybody treats me very well.  I hope the ban will be lifted soon.  I have tried to reason that this is for bigger picture so it is alrite.  However, there is no way in my mind that I can justify the sufferings and the fear of thousands DS practitioners in the name of greater good.

I plead that HHDL for all his good qualities, to live the ban soon.  it will lift the sufferings of many. 

[Ensapa]

The idea of Gyalchen Dorje Shugden being an ordinary spirits was voiced by the attendants of the 5th Dalai Lama.  After hundreds of years, it is amazing that the ban against his practice is being resurrected based on the unfounded reasoning that were made by some jealous individuals years ago. 

I am very sad when I heard about the split of Gaden Shartse and Shar Gaden.  I visited Gaden Shartse before the split and everybody treats me very well.  I hope the ban will be lifted soon.  I have tried to reason that this is for bigger picture so it is alrite.  However, there is no way in my mind that I can justify the sufferings and the fear of thousands DS practitioners in the name of greater good.

I plead that HHDL for all his good qualities, to live the ban soon.  it will lift the sufferings of many.

It is very sad to see Ganden Shartse split into Shar Ganden, but we can also look at it from another angle, that is that the pure practitioners that are truly free from the 8 worldly concerns and isolated from people who are still worried about surviving, or who are obsessed with getting into the good books of the Dalai Lama. If we discard what our teachers have asked us to practice, or even worse, discard our teachers because a higher authority said so, when that higher authority has not benefitted us directly the way our teacher did. That is broken samaya and in the teachings of Guru devotion, we are not allowed to share food or items with people with broken samaya and guess what? People who discard their own Gurus to listen to the Dalai Lama instead seem to fit that description! And to keep them isolated from the Dorje Shugden practitioners means that there will be more progress with the Dorje Shugden practitioners in their spiritual practice as they remain strong and steadfast in their direction as set out by their Gurus, so to me, that is the positive aspect of the whole split incident. We must always see both sides of the coin in everything so that we have a balanced and neutral perspective.

In the biographies of many high practitioners, we read that they have undergone a lot of suffering and also being mistreated or accused by others on a regular basis, but at the end due to these experience they are able to practice and uphold the correct Buddhadharma and gain results from it and subsequently attain enlightenment. So many yogis of the past have practiced in this way and they have gain real results from it. The most recent case of practitioners who have to endure such sufferings is Shungshep Jetsun.

The twenty-one day of that month was an auspicious date, and Pema Gyatso assembled all his disciples to bestow on them once more the explanation of the practice of wind and channels. Some days earlier, Lochen had come to know that Ani Tsultrim, the nun who had originally shown her the way to the lama’s cave, had stolen some corals. Shocked and upset, she mentioned it to several people. Pema Gyatso caught wind of the rumour and called Lochen in to see him. He told her in a dry and cutting tone, ‘You have three faults. You criticize the Ani Umzey, you lie by pretending to be the incarnation of Dorjey Phagmo, and you accused your friend of stealing. I cannot have you here any longer. You are not fit to be given these precious teachings.’ He then stamped her forehead with a seal representing a dog and ordered her to leave both the nunnery and the locality immediately and go to a place called Pomdra in Nepal.

Miserable and deeply humiliated, Lochen begged her lama to let her stay. Her pleas failed to move him and feeling totally dejected, she packed her belongings and left with her mother and two friends, who insisted on accompanying her.

If they have to go through such difficulties and they gained attainments, I am sure practitioners who have gone through difficulties due to the ban will gain attainments as well.

[yontenjamyang]

Both Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen's 1st incarnation; Dultzin Drakpa Gyeltsen and the Dalai Lama's 1st incarnation, Kundun Drub were disciples of Lama Tsongkhapa and were HIS great disciples. Unless there are reasons to doubt the lineage, then what the Dalai Lama said is 1000% correct.

Then, we should examine if Dorje Shugden arised from Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen? Or is that proof that Dorje Shugden is not of the same continuum as Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. If no, then Dorje Shugden is an enlightened protector. If he is not, then he can be anything, an enlightened protector that arised from another enlightened being or an unenlightened protector like Nechung or a spirit. The Dalai Lama and the CTA has not offered any basis to say the Dorje Shugden is a spirit; never mind why he cannot be tamed or gotten rid off. So, faced with these evidence alone ,Dorje Shugden IS AN ENLIGHTENED PROTECTOR!

[Ensapa]

Another point to consider if you want to check if Dorje Shugden is enlightened or not enlightened: has he reacted negatively to the Dalai Lama's ban or to the amount of defamation that he has to go through with respect to the ban? Has he via oracles condemned the Dalai Lama or the CTA for the ban? Or has he just give teachings and blessings to people via the oracles and tell them to follow the Dalai Lama's advice and to be at peace with him again and again?

Using just plan logic, which reaction would indicate that Dorje Shugden is beneficial and enlightened and which will not? Simple, really.

[Dondrup Shugden]

Beautiful dialogue of Shugdenpas about the Dalai Lama and the Ban.

Also highlights that the Dalai Lama actually praised Tulku Dakpa Gyeltsen before He turned against TGD manifestation of Dorje Shugden.

Even till today there had been no vicious nor violent activities by Shugdenpas.  The Pro Shugden protests had been peaceful but the anti Shugden people are abusive.

Time to stop this disharmony and create peace and love with the removal of the Ban.