Another Nechung prophecy

[DharmaDefender]

I was reading up on the celebrations for His Holiness' birthday all around the world, and found this article:

Tibetan exiles marked the 76th birthday of their God King, Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama at Dharamsala - the nerve center of Tibetan movement for the past half a century. But concern over the health of the ageing Dalai Lama was evident. “As the immediate and ultimate well-being of all Tibetan people depends upon His Holiness the Dalai Lama, his long life is the sole basis of the Tibetan people’s welfare," Professor Samdhong Rinpoche, the Kalon Tripa-Prime Minister of the Tibetan Government in exile said, addressing the congregation of monks and Tibetans at the premises of the main Buddhist temple located outside Dalai Lama’s mansion in Mcleodganj.

Calling the Tibetan community to pray for the long life of Dalai Lama, Rinpoche said that state oracle Nechung envisaged that the Dalai Lama was to live till the age of 113.

“However the state oracle stated that it depends upon the deeds and conduct of Tibetan people,” revealed Rinpoche, while on behalf of Kashag (Tibetan council of ministers) he urged all Tibetans to engage in actions that will not breach wishes of the Dalai Lama and at the same time to work hard in preserving their traditional values.

During his course of speech, Rinpoche time and again reminded people about the struggle of Dalai Lama for the cause of Tibetan people.

“Throughout his entire life, His Holiness has been tirelessly working for the welfare of Tibetan people,” said Rinpoche, while he strongly advocated the middle-way policy doctored by Dalai Lama to find an amicable solution to Tibet.

On the occasion, Rinpoche also gave away awards to the Tibetan civil servants for their services.

Children from different schools and the artists from Tibetan Institute of Performing Arts (TIPA) presented colourful traditional Tibetan dances to mark Dalai Lama's birthday. The Dalai Lama currently is in Washington to attend the Kalachakra ceremony being held for world peace.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Worry-about-his-well-being-looms-large-on-Dalai-Lama-s-birthday/Article1-718111.aspx

I think its interesting in this piece that Samdhong Rinpoche says His Holiness' long life "depends upon the deeds and conduct of Tibetan people"...does that mean that Dorje Shugden himself cannot harm His Holiness? Maybe its because His Holiness, being Chenrezig doesnt have the karma to be harmed, but that his students can do so when they break their samaya? Hmmm..

Anyway, yet another prophecy from Nechung, lets see if this one works out to be true eh?

[iloveds]

I wish you'd just come out and say it.
Spell it out for the people who are not too bright and did soo many things in the name of HHDL.

Nechung prophesy did not mention at all anything to do with Dorje Shugden shortening HHDL life!
He mentioned the Tibetan People are responsible for the Long Life of HHDL.

If you believe that doing any of the following will lengthen anyone's life please explain to us so we can see the logic.

1. Kill people.
2. Beat people.
3. Ostracise people.
4. Refuse people the right to travel because of their beliefs.
5. Destroy altars, religious items.
6. Discriminated people due to difference.
7. Dividing the sangha.
8. Causing lay people to have wrong views with regards to the teaching of the Buddha, or HHDL, or The Gurus of HHDL.
9. Cause someone to give up their practice their Guru gave them.
10. Causing someone to leave their Guru.

I could go on and I believe others can add to the list also. But when you look at it, does this create the cause for HHDL to live long?

[WoselTenzin]

I wish you'd just come out and say it.
Spell it out for the people who are not too bright and did soo many things in the name of HHDL.

Nechung prophesy did not mention at all anything to do with Dorje Shugden shortening HHDL life!
He mentioned the Tibetan People are responsible for the Long Life of HHDL.

If you believe that doing any of the following will lengthen anyone's life please explain to us so we can see the logic.

1. Kill people.
2. Beat people.
3. Ostracise people.
4. Refuse people the right to travel because of their beliefs.
5. Destroy altars, religious items.
6. Discriminated people due to difference.
7. Dividing the sangha.
8. Causing lay people to have wrong views with regards to the teaching of the Buddha, or HHDL, or The Gurus of HHDL.
9. Cause someone to give up their practice their Guru gave them.
10. Causing someone to leave their Guru.

I could go on and I believe others can add to the list also. But when you look at it, does this create the cause for HHDL to live long?

What you mentioned above is absolutely true.  How can actions that harm others create the causes for HHDL's long life.  In fact, if you are his students and that's what you do, you would have broken your samaya with him and shorten his life.   

Nechung is right when he says that how long HHDL lives depends on the deeds and conduct of the Tibetan people.  If Tibetan people wishes HHDL to live long, it may be high time for them to review their actions and see whether they are creating the right causes.

[Big Uncle]

I wish you'd just come out and say it.
Spell it out for the people who are not too bright and did soo many things in the name of HHDL.

Nechung prophesy did not mention at all anything to do with Dorje Shugden shortening HHDL life!
He mentioned the Tibetan People are responsible for the Long Life of HHDL.

If you believe that doing any of the following will lengthen anyone's life please explain to us so we can see the logic.

1. Kill people.
2. Beat people.
3. Ostracise people.
4. Refuse people the right to travel because of their beliefs.
5. Destroy altars, religious items.
6. Discriminated people due to difference.
7. Dividing the sangha.
8. Causing lay people to have wrong views with regards to the teaching of the Buddha, or HHDL, or The Gurus of HHDL.
9. Cause someone to give up their practice their Guru gave them.
10. Causing someone to leave their Guru.

I could go on and I believe others can add to the list also. But when you look at it, does this create the cause for HHDL to live long?

Oh no! That doesn't bode well for the Dalai Lama's life. The hypocrisy that goes on in TGIE and how they had witch-hunt the Shugden practitioners do not bode very well for the Dalai Lama to be with them. I am also thinking that at the rate they are doing their work, they creating tremendous negative karma not to have the future Dalai Lama to lead them. It is a scary thought considering who is going to replace him as the other Lamas of equivalent statue are still very young. The future of TGIE doesn't look too good for now.

However, I am glad that the controversy is waning slowly. Ever since the Dalai Lama stepped down from office, I hardly hear anything about the ban. I hope i am not wrong about this but I am sure the TGIE are still looking everywhere like a vigilant hawk. But time will eventually  wash out all of these unnecessary policies and ban if a sucessor is not elected to carry this out. So far, the Dalai Lama hasn't given any names and is probably deliberately not giving any names. Hmmm. Just my mind thinking....

[Ensapa]

for the sake of the world i do hope that HHDL lives to 113.

But given how the tibetans are treating him, i dont think so unless they grow up and start transforming. Its been thousands of years since Avalokiteshvara manifested and they are still throwing all the responsibility to him...please take away some of his burden if they're sincere about wanting him to live long...

[dsiluvu]

I wish you'd just come out and say it.
Spell it out for the people who are not too bright and did soo many things in the name of HHDL.

Nechung prophesy did not mention at all anything to do with Dorje Shugden shortening HHDL life!
He mentioned the Tibetan People are responsible for the Long Life of HHDL.

If you believe that doing any of the following will lengthen anyone's life please explain to us so we can see the logic.

1. Kill people.
2. Beat people.
3. Ostracise people.
4. Refuse people the right to travel because of their beliefs.
5. Destroy altars, religious items.
6. Discriminated people due to difference.
7. Dividing the sangha.
8. Causing lay people to have wrong views with regards to the teaching of the Buddha, or HHDL, or The Gurus of HHDL.
9. Cause someone to give up their practice their Guru gave them.
10. Causing someone to leave their Guru.

I could go on and I believe others can add to the list also. But when you look at it, does this create the cause for HHDL to live long?

Agreed. If really Dorje Shugden will the cause for HH the Dalai Lama to have a short life, then obviously he would say that and not about the "deeds and conduct" of the Tibetan people. Yes and when we look at all the youtube videos and actions conducted by Tibetans when DS practitioners did their protest we can see they are far from the characters of what a Buddhist practitioner should be.

In fact the way they have been acting really brings down the name of HHDL down and paints a very different picture of the calm, compassionate and spiritual Tubetan Buddhist they portray...  definitely these are not deed and right conduct that would bring about good causes for HH to live long.

It is one thing to follow HHDL's instructions by not practicing DS, it is another to act so violently, and where is the compassion that goes inline with HHDL's image?

[triesa]

I sincerely pray and wish The Dalai Lama will live up to 113 as predicted by Nechung's prophecy, or even longer.

For once, Nechung made a correct prophecy, that the long life of the Dalai Lama depends on the deeds and conduct of the Tibetans. It only make sense as if the Tibetans continue to fight among each other for the DS controversy, creating a civil war among themselves,  not only will there be no unity to even generate the merits for the Dalai Lama to stay, but the act of all these harmful actions such as killing and schism are all actions contrary to what Dalai Lama represents, the embodiment of compassion and love.  So will the Dalai Lama live long to witness all these? I don't think so.

And like what Ensapa has mentioned above, it is high time that the Tibetans should take up responsibility for matter concerning their own country instead of dumpling the responsibiity always on the shoulders of the Dalai Lama. The secular matters must be taken up by the Tibetan people while Dalai Lama can concentrate on the spiritual matters.

[dsiluvu]

It is funny when you look back and read... from Nechung saying HHDL will be shorten due to the practice of DS to now HHDL life is depended upon the people's deeds and conduct.

Sounds like Nechung changes mind like the wind. But yes triesa you are right, this is perhaps the best "prediction" I have heard by far because is does make sense and is according to "Dharma". You know what, this is a given in Dharma and does not need Nechung to even say it. I guess this shows the mentality of the Tibetans people and how they view, require, and is still very much superstitious, to depend on an "orcale/medium" to tell them what they should do. But I suppose if that is what helps them then so be it.

If HHDL is now focus on mainly spiritual affairs and the TGIE focuses of politics... then where would the issue on Dorje Shugden fall under seeing it has been classified as both. Hopefully they get this right and realise the very "human rights" issue they wish to highlight to China is not even being implented to the people in exile now in regards to their believe and practice and what for...politics? Sounds lame.

[beggar]

The argument that Shugden can shorten the Dalai Lama's life has always been illogical. Anyone who is trained even in the "basics" of Dharma teachings will know this logical to be fallible.

The very people who are saying this are his followers who also believe that his is Chenrezig - how is it possible that Chenrezig can be harmed by a spirit? That is saying that a spirit is more powerful than a Buddha? Then the entire basis of the teachings is false.

Among the benefits of taking refuge and pratimoksha vows is also protection from spirits. Surely the Dalai Lama has taken refuge and holds vows - several sets in fact. And a spirit can still override his lifetime of vows? again, this makes the entire basis of our practice fall through the ground!

If the Dalai Lama can be harmed by Shugden, why hasn't Shugden already harmed him then? Why does he "allow" the DL to keep getting away with saying bad things about his practice and putting down people who do his practice? Why doesn't Shugden just GET HIM then if he is so powerful?

Also, this isn't his first incarnation. There have been several incarnations before this who have also done DS' practice. When didn't Shugden get him then? When only now?

So many inconsistent arguments to this! if you think about it deeper, it is very clear how full of holes the arguments are to discourage us from the practice. It sure hasn't discouraged me, no way, not with that logic!

[DharmaDefender]

I wish you'd just come out and say it.
Spell it out for the people who are not too bright and did soo many things in the name of HHDL.

Classic! Wrong side of the bed this morning?!

The very people who are saying this are his followers who also believe that his is Chenrezig - how is it possible that Chenrezig can be harmed by a spirit? That is saying that a spirit is more powerful than a Buddha? Then the entire basis of the teachings is false.

Well iloveds did say that they werent too bright 

Also, this isn't his first incarnation. There have been several incarnations before this who have also done DS' practice. When didn't Shugden get him then? When only now?

Not just that - why have only SOME Dalai Lamas made Dorje Shugden an issue? If he was such an issue, every single Dalai Lama wouldve had an issue with him but it just so happens only the 14th has really made the effort. Odd eh, since the Dalai Lamas are incarnations of one another.

Then again you could always argue timing is why Dorje Shugden is being suppressed now, because he's more powerful or has more influence now...but surely if the Dalai Lamas were clairvoyant (which I believe they are!), they would've seen the Protectors influence would grow in the future...so why not subdue him at a time when he was weak, if he really was a spirit? Eejits!

[DharmaSpace]

@Dharma Defender, yeah there were many dalai lamas between the 5th to the 14th Dalai Lama why wait till now when the practise has taken root in so many erudite Gelug masters.

Subdue Dorje Shugden during a time when there were no internet, won't that be much easier!