Where does the welath come from?

[triesa]

This is surely an interesting topic to discuss.

DS does not just give us wealth, we must have the stock pile of wealth karma that is hidden and not ripen due to environmental circumstances. When we propitiate DS, DS helps us to bring  this wealth karma seeds forward and  also bring forth the right environmentl conditions, so that we can experience wealth coming in different forms for our welfare and for our spirtiual journey.

By propitiating DS, we are also accumulating merits that will propell us to do more dharma work which in turns create even more merits, that will help us to lessen the effect of the negative karma that stops us of gaining material wealth, for this instance.

So yes, when we propitiate DS, couple with good motivation and clean samaya like what Icy has said, the positive results can definitley be achieved.



 

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Protector practice - not just DS practice, but any proper protector practice - does not necessarily "improve" one's outer conditions. One could just as well lose one's wealth (or societal position, or one's spouse, etc.) The idea that Protectors give stuff and goodies is wrong. They can simply take it all away as well. Protectors' job is to give the proper conditions for practice, and if that entails giving you a Ferrari, you will get one, but if that entails losing your previously owned Ferrari, you will lose it. Protector practice is a gamble, samsarawise.

As for karma, we all have karmic seeds for both enjoyment and suffering, so protector practice merely ripens the seeds that we need most, at that time.

I am speaking now about proper protector practice. Merely giving gifts and praying to some Dude-in-the-sky is not necessarily proper practice.

(And as for karma-theory in general, not everything that happns to us is caused by our karma. While it is true that all that we do (karma) has a definite effect (karmaphala), not everything that affects us is caused by our karma. There are freak accidents, and the universe is non-deterministic, so some stuff just comes, whether we have done something or not.)

[Mana]

Protector practice - not just DS practice, but any proper protector practice - does not necessarily "improve" one's outer conditions. One could just as well lose one's wealth (or societal position, or one's spouse, etc.) The idea that Protectors give stuff and goodies is wrong. They can simply take it all away as well. Protectors' job is to give the proper conditions for practice, and if that entails giving you a Ferrari, you will get one, but if that entails losing your previously owned Ferrari, you will lose it. Protector practice is a gamble, samsarawise.

As for karma, we all have karmic seeds for both enjoyment and suffering, so protector practice merely ripens the seeds that we need most, at that time.

I am speaking now about proper protector practice. Merely giving gifts and praying to some Dude-in-the-sky is not necessarily proper practice.

(And as for karma-theory in general, not everything that happns to us is caused by our karma. While it is true that all that we do (karma) has a definite effect (karmaphala), not everything that affects us is caused by our karma. There are freak accidents, and the universe is non-deterministic, so some stuff just comes, whether we have done something or not.)

Yes I agree fully here with ZP. Protector practice is not about give me, I want and get it for me. It is definitely for creating the right conditions for you to practice. And those conditions are different for everyone. For some getting wealth would be beneficial. For some it would be detrimental. This goes for everything besides wealth also. That's where we leave it and trust the Dharma protector that we gain the actual conditions suitable for us to gain the attainments necessary to exit samsara.

We know our protector practice is actualizing when our mind gains ground in our practice. And whatever conditions we have we use it for practice leading to results.

All Enlightened protectors assist us in this way.

Mana

[beggar]

Protectors' job is to give the proper conditions for practice, and if that entails giving you a Ferrari, you will get one, but if that entails losing your previously owned Ferrari, you will lose it. Protector practice is a gamble, samsarawise.

I couldn't have said it better. Thanks ZP.

In terms of talking about wealth, ZP's analogy is a most accurate one. Protector practices are about so much more than wealth. We only talk about wealth because this is the kind of language that people talk in these days - money, money, money, show me the money. Actually, it is only a side aspect of any Dharma practice. In a Dharma context, we pray for wealth so that it will enable our spiritual practice - for example, to secure our finances so that we have one less physical hindrance and more time to spend on our practice. Or we pray for wealth and resources so that we can do more to bring Dharma and help to others or to relieve others' suffering.

But this is only one aspect and there are many things we pray for - wisdom to know how to handle situations, the patience to deal with problems, generosity to learn to share, strength, tenacity, the right friendships we need for our spiritual work and practice, the right conditions to lead us to find the right teachers etc.

All in good time. The protectors will give us whatever it is that we need - or in fact, take things away - according to what would be best for our INDIVIDUAL. So we must also be careful not to compare too closely. Our Dharma friend may have all her wishes fulfilled because those things will help her; but we may have all the opposite of our wishes come true because that is what we need to experience to purify something or gain certain knowledge / wisdom / attainments.