Getting out of a religious rut

[beggar]

Just chanced upon this press statement issued recently by the Kashag and the Tibetan parliament in exile. First thoughts upon reading it - after 50 years, the government are still looking for handouts from other countries. Isn't it about time the government does something for its own people?

I am weary of making political comments on this forum, but in this instance, I think the current standing of the Tibetan government is a clear indication of how their constant and petty emphasis on religious issues such as their insistence on implementing the ban has caused such a retardation in their social and political growth in the world. I do not wish to get into politics, but I do believe there should be a separation between state and church, and the Tibetans have long mixed up the two, which has made life exceedingly difficult for their own people and kept them hidden and kicked about on the global stage.

If only they spent less time on witch hunts and more time on things that are really needed, like education and welfare FOR ALL (not just for people who give up particular practices - how childish!)

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Joint Press Statement

October 12, 2011

Since the 2008 uprising in Tibet, the situation in Tibet has been deteriorating. Particularly, as of March this year, it has become ever more tense and urgent with the increasing cases of self-immolation by young Tibetans who find China's occupation and repression of Tibet intolerable.

Tibetans in Tibet are driven to these drastic acts to resist political repression, cultural assimilation, economic marginalization and environmental destruction.

From the seven young Tibetans who self-immolated this year, the following succumbed to their injuries: On March 16, 2011, Lobsang Phuntsok (age 21), a monk of Kirti Monastery in northeastern Tibet. The second reported case, on August 15, 2011 was that of Tsewang Norbu, (age 29), a monk at Nyitso monastery in eastern Tibet. The third and the fourth cases were Khaying (age 18), and Choephel (age 19), both former monks of Kirti Monastery. They self-immolated on October 7, 2011 and died on October 8 and 11 respectively.

The conditions of the three others, namely Lobsang Kelsang (age 18), Lobsang Kunchok (age 19) and Kelsang Wangchuk (age 17) are still unknown.

The Central Tibetan Administration is deeply concerned about their whereabouts and well-being.

We express our solidarity with all those who lost their lives and with all other Tibetans who are incarcerated for their courage to speak up for the rights of the Tibetan people.

We appeal to the United Nations, freedom-loving countries and people around the world to show their support and solidarity with the Tibetan people at this critical stage.

Given the undeclared martial law in Tibet and the increasing cases of self-immolation, the international community must press the government of People's Republic of China to restore freedom and resolve the issue of Tibet through dialogue for the mutual benefit of the Tibetan and Chinese people. In this light, we urge the international community and the media to send fact-finding delegations to ascertain the situation on the ground inside Tibet.

The Kashag and the Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile have jointly planned activities in India and the world-at-large to highlight the deepening crisis in Tibet.

We call upon all Tibetans and Tibet supporters in the free world to join efforts and organize activities in their respective regions. These events must be peaceful, respectful of local laws and dignified. On October 19, 2011, the Central Tibetan Administration will offer day-long prayers and encourage all Tibetans to fast on that day as a gesture of solidarity with Tibetans in Tibet.

To our brothers and sisters in Tibet, we stand with you in fulfilling our common aspirations, and we share the pain of your sacrifice.


                          Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile                          The Kashag

[DharmaDefender]

Hey beggar, weary or wary?

Well tis simples. How many more Tibetans have to burn before the CTA gets it... no one cares? Im not saying that to be nasty or because I dont care, but look around you - CTA, no one else is shouting with you!

The CTA needs to get their head out of the sand, and stop perpetuating the samsaric myth amongst their people that Tibet will be free. Because lets face it... tough economic times, do you really think govts are going to risk pissing off other countries (and risk their own economic development) for the sake of an administration thats always asking for handouts?

The Tibetans cheer when they have one or two people doing well internationally, like a professor or an athlete or an entertainer. It just goes to show how small the thinking can be, because you know Americans wont be bothered to cheer like that unless they do something groundbreaking like elect a black President.

The Tibetan administration really needs to get their people moving into the 21st century for their own good, invest in education and drop all this political feuding and nonsense. And I dont think mixing state and church is a problem, just look at Bhutan.

[Ensapa]

The sad thing is, it is the CTA that is the direct causes of the immolations by giving false hope to the people there. They should just own up and tell the people there to behave when they are being governed by China. Yes independence is a nice thing but if the government is not ready to rule like a modern government of the times, there is potentially more harm than good.

Instead of saying they will avenge their deaths or work harder…why not release a statement that tells them to respect the local chinese government..this will impress china and make the chinese realize that the tibetan government isn't that much of a seperatist state after all and might just enter talks with the CTA. Even in prayers we say things to appease the local deities…why not apply the same principle to governments? Say things that china wants to hear and slowly gain their trust.

There has been more immolations since this article, and it is apparent that there will be even more in the future. And these deaths can be prevented and resolved if only the CTA applied Buddhist methods in their practice rather than being hardline about their stance on independence. That does not work anymore and it will never work. The Chinese government learned from china's history (which is based on hard facts, by the way) and they're resistant to these kind of things.

In reality, it is not the independence that will stop the immolations. China will not bow down to such pressures, and it is up to the CTA to wake these people up from the dream. But then again, it would mean that CTA would have to wake up from their own dream as well. 

[vajratruth]

Drawing the world's attention to the Tibet issue is only a good move if the CTA positions itself as a more viable government to Chinese rule. That is not happening. No doubt it is not easy to accept being annexed by another power but the reality is that the Chinese government is actually building Tibet into a better economic state. At least it is being seen as wanting progress for Tibet and its people.

At the same time, the CTA is busy splitting the Tibetan people over the Shugden ban. I get it that one of the concerns of HHDL and the CTA is the claim that the practice may promote sectarianism, but today the only sectarianism being played out is the ban that HHDL and CTA initiated and enforced. Instead of being the cure, the ban became the very disease it was supposed to prevent.

I feel sad for the sacrifice of the many who went to the extent of self immolation. All they did was draw the world's attention to how inept the CTA is and how unprepared it is, to run a truly democratic government. How unable it is to look protect and preserve the rights of ALL Tibetans regardless of belief.

[Positive Change]

I do not wish to get into politics, but I do believe there should be a separation between state and church, and the Tibetans have long mixed up the two, which has made life exceedingly difficult for their own people and kept them hidden and kicked about on the global stage.

It is interesting to note here that not only the Tibetans follow this "tradition" of mixing religious and secular affair. From my understanding of this, is that religion is so ingrained into the rich culture and society that it sometimes gets "confusing" which is which.

Other religions such as Catholicism and Islam also have to endure this predicament as some heads of state "use" the religious hand to garner votes or even worse, instill divine fear for their benefit! I do not want to dwell nor am I an expert on politics and religious views and these are merely my thoughts to share on this forum.

For me the basic "remedy" for this tactic is proper education to dispel the ignorance and fear. And this I find only works if the "subjects" are open to it of course. Once the herd mentality kicks in, no amount of open education will help as it would be the blind leading the blind!

[DharmaSpace]

The fact that things are getting worst in Tibet shows 'CTA's is in effective in getting any form of independance from Tibet. Now i think about perhaps it is time to modernize the Tibetans once and for all and CHina is perfectly aligned to do that and want to bring the Tibetans to the 21st century.

If CTA is not effective it must mean they have incorrect policies or doing things incorrectly. Hence please try to do something different like lifting the ban. The repercussions may shake this earth!

[Ensapa]

The problem with CTA is that they want the exposure, but they did not clean up their act. This is a potentially dangerous move as they did not fix their weaknesses and everyone is watching. The Ban is and will be a big issue that the world will focus on for CTA especially when they get more famous and more exposure. They will ask why are we supporting a nation that is promoting religious persecution.

If the world was shocked at hitler's massacre of the jews, and they cannot forgive the serbians for genocide against the muslims, definetely they will not take CTA's religious persecution against Dorje Shugden practitioners positively and therefore many nations like France who is a strong believer of freedom and human rights will withdraw their support and even speak out against CTA.

Also, CTA should stop bad mouthing China and making ridiculous claims that Dorje Shugden practitioners are Chinese spies etc because China will retaliate by digging up their history archives which will contain many embarrassing accounts of Tibet that the CTA will not be able to answer or explain at all. It would include a lot of shameful history bits that all Tibetans have been denying along which will definitely shatter the illusion about Tibet that CTA has painted in the eyes of the western world.

So, CTA should behave like a proper government and make sure that all of their policies are accountable and that they can be explained and justified to the world. Else, nobody will respect them as everyone nowadays will look at track record and the current achievements of any government instead of relying on propaganda alone.

[harrynephew]

Good pointers by Beggar. Let's help the CTA filter both religion and secular apart(which is just for our own info and I know very well our 'brothers and sisters of Dharma' in the CTA are reading)

Let's face it, the CTA is by far barking up the wrong tree to get this message over. When MONK and NUNS, peace loving people self immolate, it means the education  of the people isn't done properly. How can you have peace loving people who uphold the teachings of PEACE burn themselves for PEACE? This doesn't gel with the law of Karma which the Buddha taught 2600 years ago and which is common in all schools of Buddhism.

To add on to that, we have Tibetan officials and monks and religious leaders pray for these people! I am not putting their religious responsibility  down but what is the underlying message that these people are sending out to other Tibetans within Tibet? That self-immolations  is OK to make us heard? I do not think so. The CTA should send out letters to the Tibetans in Tibet to ask them to STOP! We Buddhist are peace loving people and in order to love others, we have to start from our selves!

This is a very wrong move CTA! Very very wrong move, giving people deceptive ideas and have them self immolate for the sake of your ideals which I strongly do not agree.

Now, for the religious end.....

Rasiing a ban on Dorje Shugden, giving false hopes on Tibet's freedom(and all the oracles within the system have to be part of this!) are causes to a disturbed mind of a normal Tibetan Lay person to not be able to make peace with themselves and many times creates conflict within their minds which in turns create brutal mess. We need to tell Tibetans that committing suicide is killing the Buddha nature within. No matter how noble u are in this sense, killing is killing and if it is just for a small community such as Tibetans, we should slaughter ourselves by practicing tirelessly for the welfare of others' enlightenment. Not just for the freedom of a country which we very well know won't get freedom.

[bambi]

The news on self immolation truly disturbs me in every way. CTA should do something about this. They must stand up and do something to prevent events like this from happening in the future. They should educate the Tibetans and Shanghas around the world that self immolation is wrong and it wont help except bring more wrong views and problems.
Besides this, the ban on Lord Dorje Shugden is also another problem.  I am sorry to say that I have not heard any good things about CTA in action! Stop using the Sanghas as your shield and puppets! Stop making Tibetans and people around the world turn on each other. Promote peace and love! Release the BAN!

[Klein]

I'm sorry to say this, but the CTA is a hypocrite! All of a sudden they care so much for a handful of their citizens who self immolate? What happened to the thousands of their citizens whom they condemn and strip away their rights to education and so forth just because they choose to practise Dorje Shugden? The CTA literally made it a living hell for the practitioners if they choose to continue the practice. Some were even killed. I didn't realise that Governments intervene in their people's spirituality. How bizarre!

So is the CTA really concerned of their citizens well being or do they have other agendas? How have they contributed to the general well being of their people in exile in the midst of fighting for independence? Let's see some real facts.

If the current CTA can't even make their citizens in exile be better off, they can forget about governing the majority of the Tibetans left in Tibet. Isn't this logical?

[Manjushri]

What use is there to release a statement, asking the Tibetans to unite, when the CTA themselves are tearing their own people apart and segregating everyone. With the ban in place, the discrimination, the unjust treatment towards Dorje Shugden practitioners, there will be NO HARMONY within the Tibetans themselves. How can they expect other people to fight for unity amongst Tibetans? It's so hypocritical! On one front they are fighting for all Tibetans, on the other front, they are putting down DS practitioners. What I find funny is this:

"We call upon all Tibetans and Tibet supporters in the free world to join efforts and organize activities in their respective regions. These events must be peaceful, respectful of local laws and dignified. On October 19, 2011, the Central Tibetan Administration will offer day-long prayers and encourage all Tibetans to fast on that day as a gesture of solidarity with Tibetans in Tibet.

To our brothers and sisters in Tibet, we stand with you in fulfilling our common aspirations, and we share the pain of your sacrifice."

All Tibetans, brothers and sisters in Tibet - so does that include a small fine print that says "except DS practitioners?" hehe.

I find their statement here somewhat forced and fake-ish, because their actions towards ALL Tibetans do not match what they have said and are fighting for.

[Ensapa]

CTA is very irresponsible to encourage and endorse such actions indirectly by praising it and saying that it is the right thing to do to show the international community that Chinese occupation of Tibet is wrong. It will only cause more deaths and they will not stop until CTA tells them to stop because it does not work anymore. China is not budging at all to all the immolations, and it only makes China more furious at CTA.

There are more and more recent immolations: http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/tibet/2402-two-monks-self-immolate-in-amdo and there will be more because CTA is encouraging it. This approach may have worked during the 1960s in vietnam but not in China. China is very jaded these things will not move them anymore. They have a 5000 year old history to refer to and to learn from and they will not bow down to such things.

China values unity a lot. If HHDL and CTA tells tibetans in china to follow the government rules there (as per the Buddhas teachings to respect the laws of the land) then there will be progress between china and tibet. Until CTA grows up and learns the ways of the world, they will never be able to achieve independence. They should really study China more closely rather than seeing them as an enemy and sidelining them.

If CTA truly cares for the people, why are they still releasing statements that will encourage more immolations? Immolations are fine but what about those where the person who immolated themselves do not die immediately or was "saved" by China? Those will undergo more suffering. And their relatives and monastery will be affected as well as the police will interrogate them. In reality, the immolations cause more suffering than help with the independence movement.