Author Topic: Revenge against Dorje Shugden?  (Read 5816 times)

Lineageholder

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Revenge against Dorje Shugden?
« on: April 05, 2009, 12:11:22 PM »
Hi everyone,

The following was posted on a Tricycle Blog and I was wondering if anyone knows if it is true or if there is any more information about it?

I do not practice DS, nor side with him but I do not like all the accusations going against him. Even if he was unenlighetened, all the work he has done to protect the Dharma at least in the Gelug lineage would make him better than any of us to criticize or make fun of him.

the hate towards DS started when one of Dudjom Nyigma’s splinter monasteries began spreading damaging views about the Dharma. Dorje Shudgen impersonated their protector in trance and made the oracle swallow a double vajra. He told them to stop spreading it and to build a Lama Tsongkhapa statue to purify the damage they have done. Since then the Dudjom lineage has started their extensive smear campaign against DS, to th point of putting DS under dorje drollo and also having an image of DS being supressed by Guru Rinpoche in his scorpion form as their emblem. Then, they started to influence other schools into thinking that DS is out to get them by distorting the facts, that DS attacked their monastery etc and they would be next if they did not destroy him. this was very well documented in his prayers that can be found on dorjeshugden.com, i mean the part of the oracle. It isnt surprising that eventually the truth was contorted in order to make Gelug look bad for revenge.


I'm really not criticising any traditions or practitioners of Buddhism but I'd like to know more because there's a lot of rumours going around that Je Pabongkhapa and his followers tried to destroy Nyingma monasteries in Kham.  I was told that these rumours were started because some practitioners in the Nyingma tradition were jealous of Je Pabongkhapa's reputation as a great Teacher and they tried to destroy him.  Now there's this story about Dorje Shugden.

Does anyone have anything further to add?  I'd like to get a straight story on why the Nyingmapas have a problem with Dorje Shugden and Je Pabongkhapa.

Alexis

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Re: Revenge against Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2009, 04:45:09 PM »
Lineageholder,

In Trijang Dorjechang's commentary, you will find in the Praises to Dorje Shugden explanations (towards the end of the commentary) the details of the 'swallowing the vajra' story. Also check out Tomo Geshe Rimpoche's bio in the acticles section of this website for more insights on gelug/nyingma relations.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 05:23:51 PM by Alexis »

Lineageholder

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Re: Revenge against Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2009, 04:52:07 PM »
Thanks Alexis!  ;)

Mohani

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Re: Revenge against Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2009, 04:55:24 PM »
I dug this story out of the Guest book, page 15 I think...

Pelsang's answers following;
Is there any religion without being accompanied by any sort of controversies in history of human kind. Name it, Christianity, Islam, Hindu and even Buddhism, all are directly or indirectly linked to one or another controversy, even much bigger than shugden controversy. Your story about the persecution of non-gelugpa Buddhists in eastern Tibet by shugden worshippers is not a valid reason because how can you be sure about that it is true. It is just based on Nyingma lamas or jamyang khentse's saying? Most of the Tibetan high lama lives comfortably in their well protected house that they are seldom correct in real happening among general people. Whatever their attendant told then, they simply believe. It seems that their clairvoyance doesn't work in these things( i believe because of our karma). Anyway high lamas saying about these happenings are not reliable. Anyway i heard different version of your story from somebody from chamdo region( eastern tibet) about what really happened at that time. It is nothing to do with Togden rinpoche or shugden but i will not go in detail here. Even if your story had been true, we should differentiate between those who misuse religion and the religion itself. Whatever so called shugden followers does in the name of shugden cannot be attributable to shugden or his main philosophy. Here i am defending shugden and his philosophy.

I tell you one real story witnessed by my friends many years ago. HH Zong Rinpoche was invited to Orrisa( south India) to do a special ritual. At that time in Orrisa, Tibetan camp, many people were dying without any obvious reasons; as a result, many lamas and specially those from nyingma did rituals to ward off negative energy, but none of them was sucessful and then Zong rimnpoche was invited as he was very famous as powerful tantric master. Zong rinpoche's ritual was very effective and showed many signs described in text. During that time Zong also gave some small teachings and empowerment. He even visited Nyingma monastery of great Dranag rinpoche(highly realised master), where he gave teaching on Guru padmasambawa's life story, so moving and inspiring that even nyingma lama Dranag commented that " even we nyingmapa weren't aware of such". This great dranag rinpoche later offered his younger son to HH zong rinpoche as disciple. This young son studied under zong and now he is geshe lharampa. This clearly shows that how authentic lama from gelug side and nyingma side can keep such a healthy relationship? But then what had happened thereafter, few nyingma persons out of jealousy started to spread a rumor that zong was against nyingma ,destroying Guru padmasambhawa's staues and nyingma text and started to collect signature from nyingma followers to condemn zong. They hurled same accusation like in your story to my most precious, ever compassionate and truthful lama, zong rinpoche. I saw from my own eyes that zong rinpoche kept statue of guru rinpoche in his personal altar. As their approach one old lady for signature, she was said to have told them that Zong rinpoche had instead advised her to recite mantra of guru rinpoche and pray to him, hence cannot sign. Then these fanatics send petition signed by several people to Exile Tibetan government. Government sent one envoy( then member of parliament) named kunsang choemphel to investigate the matters. Kunsang chomphel and then local representative( like mayor) Lobsang nyima did thorough investigation. Their investigation found HH zong rinpoche with no faults and all accusation were baseless and unfounded. They gave zong clean chit. When these two men asked those people who signed the petition about their reason, most of them told that we just signed it because we were told to do so, that is the only reasons. Infact main culprit were one low profile nyingma lama, others were just ignorant and following him blindly.This happening is ,unlike your story, well documented proved by government appointed reliable third party. Despite the investigation, after many years( zong passed away in 1984) in 2002, Dalai lama just repeated what had been proved to be wrong by his own goverment several years ago, may be his memory is poor.

Phagphongka and Trijang did highly praised and with reasoning established the fact that Lama tsongkhapa's interpretation of buddha's both sutra and tantra are perfect, immaculate devoid of even a subtle mistakes. Then they further emphasized that tsongkhapa's tradition should be upheld purely without mixing with others. What wrong in this? If this amount to sectarianism, then i think all religion are sectarian because very religion says that their way is the best and prefer to not to mix. Religion is supposed to be the way to ultimate goal and who wouldn't chose the best for him or her when it is about way to ultimate goal.
In christian, jesus is the only way to salvation. According to madhayamika, chittamatrin(mind only) school's way cannot even lead to liberation much less buddha hood. Is madhayamika a sectarian? I never read and heard any such things from Phagpongka, trijang and zong that we shouldn't respect nyingma or kagyu and say bad things about them. In fact my most immaculate teacher zong rinpoche repeatedly told us to respect and generate pure vision with respect to nyingma teaching and their teachers but he remind us that this doesn't mean that one should practice other tradition. We, Buddhist respect Christianity but doesn't practice Christianity. We rae not politician or playing games with religions, if one is really serious in practicing dharma in order to get buddha hood then, practice one of the four traditions whichever you like, not all by mixing. Because mixing has greater long term harm then benefits.
Every great religion advocates the practice of their tradition purely.

mountains

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Re: Revenge against Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2009, 11:11:36 PM »
Dear Mohani,


Excellent what you posted. I heard the exact same story re H.H. Kyabje Zong Dorje Chang and the incident.

Thank you for posting it.

Lhakpa Gyaltshen

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Re: Revenge against Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2009, 11:34:32 PM »
I can share this perspective that was shared with me by, Tulku Gonsar Rinpoche at his monastery in Switzerland over a cup of tea.
Rinpoche told me that before the Dalia Lama started worrying about his history, was this.
 "We never had any problems between the Traditions, We lived in the same quarters in India and shared  our robes with one another. We ate together and shared what we had, as we pledged we would when taking our vows"

  It is my opinion that Dalia is the sole cause for this schism and would not heed the advice of anyone that he was making a big mistake.
Dalia thought we were 14th Century Peasants. He did not understand that, We are People from the Future!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 01:26:55 AM by Lhakpa Gyaltshen »

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Revenge against Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2009, 12:21:06 AM »


Ven Gonsar Rinpoche is a wonderful lama. Forthright. Straight to the point. Great guru devotion. Pure monk. Knowledgable. Doesn't involve in politics but focuses his attention to his practice, teaching his students, educating Ven Rabten Rinpoche.

May Gonsar Rinpoche live long. May Rabten Rinpoche reach fruition perfectly.

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Revenge against Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 11:33:32 AM »
Dear Trinley Kalsang,

Can you please post the story of Lelung Shepai Dorje that you have mentioned. Can you give us more information please?

The current Lelung Shepai was enthroned in Drepung Loseling Monastery.  He stayed around 10 years and disrobed and went to dharamsala.
He is in charge of an association in Dharamsala to preserve the Gelug lineage. His current stance on Dorje Shugden is unknown. He should be around late twenties or early thirties in age.




stibo

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Re: Revenge against Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2009, 10:46:54 PM »
Dear Trinley Kalsang,

I would like to congratulate and thank you for your wonderfull work on the Dorje Shugden history. What you are doing have a very great importance.

Regarding Pabonkha Rinpoche alleged sectarian activities, Georges Dreyfus wrote:
"Under one of Pa-bong-ka's disciples, Tob-den Rin-bo-che, several Nying-ma monasteries were forcefully transformed into Ge-luk establishments and statues of Gu-ru Rin-bo-che are said to have been destroyed. In certain parts of Khams, particularly in Ge-luk strongholds such as Dra-gyab and Cham-do, some Ge-luk fanatics tried to stamp out the other traditions in the name of Shuk-den. It is hard to know, however, what Pa-bong-ka thought about these events, which may have been the work of a few extremists. It is clear, however, that since this time Shuk-den played a central role for Pa-bong-ka, who continued to promote his practice to support Ge-luk exclusivism after his return to Central Tibet."

I tried to find documents proving these allegations, but failed to find anyone. I remember one letter talking about this, but I don't remember where exactly I saw this letter. On the TGIE web site I think. But, if there is only one account of this event, this is not a very well established fact, from an historical point of view.

So my request to you is the following: is this possible for you, when you'll have completed your researchs on the Dorje Shugden pratice history, to work on the historical background of the Pabonkha Rinpoche alleged sectarian activities?

On this accusation in particular, and also on the Pabonkha Rinpoche apologize letter to the XIIIth Dalai Lama. I'm quite sceptic about this letter, or its content, because it shows Pabonkha Rinpoche repenting as a child cached by his mother in the pantry stealing candies. This seems to me completely surrealist from a so accomplished master. He praticed Dorje Shugde and he would have apologize because of this. Hmm. For me, all this look like additions to the XIIIth completed works. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I must say that I have no confidence in the people who found the references about the Dorje Shugden affair.

Thank you very much,

stibo

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: Revenge against Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2015, 07:22:36 AM »
The smear campaign against Dorje Shugden Lamas (especially the special one) is escalating at a phenomenal speed and as devotees, let us study some history on this revengeful hate campaign.

Knowledge will enhance our faith and make it easy for us to see the fallacy and deceit being said and exaggerated.