The 'cult' of Dorje Shugden

[Ensapa]

On my personal thoughts on a cult or not, every religious movement can basically be labelled as a cult, depending on motivation and context. Since the definition of a cult is a religious movement that focuses of a certain doctrine or philosophy, or a deity figure, no religion is excluded from the identification as a cult. In layman's terms, the word cult is used to describe a religious movement that is perceived as harmful, or has done harm to others in any way, shape or form which is why that word is never used to describe religions. As Dorje Shugden practitioners, we should have seen this coming, we have chosen to accept the discriminations and nasty things that come from detractors of Dorje Shugden, the day we chose to have a Lama that practices Dorje Shugden, so why should we be sensitive about it or even care? It is just part and parcel of being a Dorje Shugden practitioner, it does not mean that the discriminations should happen in the first place, it just means that we have to be prepared for such comments directed at us. Nobody is free from criticism, including the Dalai Lama and the Buddha, so what about us and Dorje Shugden?

Over the years, I have read so many articles about Dorje Shugden, both for and against and I have come to one conclusion: people's opinions on Dorje Shugden does not matter at all, because it is results that matters at the end of the day and secondly, our faith and who we chose to believe in is a very personal matter and if they cannot respect that, too bad for them. All of the articles against Dorje Shugden are based on nothing but opinions and inferences, while the pro Dorje Shugden articles are based on traceable historical accounts and facts. Nothing can shake my faith in Dorje Shugden except for my Guru, because my faith in my Guru is higher than anyone else, and since Dorje Shugden's connection with me was only possible via my Guru, it only makes sense that the only reason for me to give him up (although it would be difficult) would be for him to tell me to give up the practice. I doubt my Guru will ever do that.

What I'm saying is, dont let the detractors get to you, because they're not responsible for your spiritual salvation, you are.

[dsiluvu]

If Dorje Shugden practice was a cult then we might as well classify the whole entire Buddhist pantheon a "cult" as well! Heck we might as well say that the entire world's religion a cult as well. What about Scientology which is even newer and does not even have any lineage to begin with.

This seems to be common comment of those anti-shugden groups that are narrow in view and doesn't have much basis to support their argument except for a few gossip words that describes the ignorance of those through how they "felt" but not through logic.   

After this, he reconsecrated the chapel to the deity Beg tse. He defied Shugs ldan to take revenge. When nothing happened, the frightened monks lost their faith in Shugs ldan and accepted the new protective deity.

I do not get this at all... Dorje Shugden is a Boddhisattva so how can a Boddisattva ever take any revenge... if Dorje Shugden did take revenge then we really got something to question and worry about... obviously that is not the case. And why would monks who has taken on so many vows be afraid of a so-caled "spirit". Doesn't that show that they have not even taken refuge... then what is the point in becoming a monk let alone a Buddhist? 

So I will not even bother to entertain such a comment because it is simply baseless and childish. I really think these people really need to chant Om Ara Padsa Nadhi before they make such pointless comments. 

[vajrastorm]

The monks may have lost faith in Dorje Shugden partly because  the person who had dared to turn the Shugden chapel into the chapel of another deity, was someone they highly revered: the mystic Dezhung Rinpoche. They were just simple minded enough to think that Dezhung Rinpoche was proven correct in his seemingly unholy action when they weren't punished for it.

Beyond the reasons already given in this thread why the practice of Dorje Shugden is not a cult, I would like to add that this practice by the Gelugpas has a lineage(passed from teacher to student) starting with Tagphu Pemavajra who passed it to Pabongka Rinpoche. Pabongka Rinpoche passed it to Trijang Rinpoche who in turn passed it on to his heart sons like Zong Rinpoche, and so on. All of these illustrious Masters have seen their incarnations coming back and many of these incarnations have defied the ban to continue to practice Dorje Shugden. Among them are the current incarnations of Trijang Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche, Domo Geshe Rinpoche and Zemey Rinpoche. All these great masters and many more continue to  compassionately spread the practice of Shugden to benefit the beings of this degenerate age. For undoubtedly, the supramundane Protector Shugden is THE Protector of this age,  sworn to protect Je Tsongkapa's teachings which are so necessary for these times.

[Ensapa]

The monks may have lost faith in Dorje Shugden partly because  the person who had dared to turn the Shugden chapel into the chapel of another deity, was someone they highly revered: the mystic Dezhung Rinpoche. They were just simple minded enough to think that Dezhung Rinpoche was proven correct in his seemingly unholy action when they weren't punished for it.
If people have little or no faith to the protector, why would they even worship him in the first place? Clearly, some people are easily taken in by big names and big lamas, and not anything at all to Dharma and their practices. It goes to prove that these practitioners are of the lower quality variety.

Beyond the reasons already given in this thread why the practice of Dorje Shugden is not a cult, I would like to add that this practice by the Gelugpas has a lineage(passed from teacher to student) starting with Tagphu Pemavajra who passed it to Pabongka Rinpoche. Pabongka Rinpoche passed it to Trijang Rinpoche who in turn passed it on to his heart sons like Zong Rinpoche, and so on. All of these illustrious Masters have seen their incarnations coming back and many of these incarnations have defied the ban to continue to practice Dorje Shugden. Among them are the current incarnations of Trijang Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche, Domo Geshe Rinpoche and Zemey Rinpoche. All these great masters and many more continue to  compassionately spread the practice of Shugden to benefit the beings of this degenerate age. For undoubtedly, the supramundane Protector Shugden is THE Protector of this age,  sworn to protect Je Tsongkapa's teachings which are so necessary for these times.

To me, you dont need to see far to know that Dorje Shugden is good. It is very simple: How many people had their prayers answered and how many Lamas who practice him all soar high in their spiritual practice? How many Dorje Shugden Lamas have "fallen" or degenerated? This does not count tulkus whose previous students have broken their samaya in glee for the sake of being politically correct. From that alone, is it too hard to believe that Dorje Shugden is bad if you are Gelugpa? If you're not Gelugpa, why are you even commenting on a Gelug protector? This is what I feel, anyway.

[Barzin]

If you google the true meaning of cult actually it does not mean anything.  A cult basically is a group of people gather together in believing the same thing.  If Dorje Shugden is a cult, then Buddhsim as whole is a cult, if Buddhism is a cult; then the rest of the religious is a cult too!  It is just us use the word too lightly and associate with something negative.  After all, they are just labels. 

My point is that, they have been using negative wordings to describe the practice of Dorje Shugden but come out with evidence so does it mean that Dorje Shugden only have positive evidence?  If not then why only label and say things badly?  What about other useful good information.  I don't believe that this website don't grow for nothing, i am sure there are more than just Dorje Shugden practitioners read this website to gather more information.  Since they are acquiring more information, then why deny these valid evidence?

[DSFriend]

Just to add to this discussion - the world is practising the cult of the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama declares Dorje Shugden as a spirit and bans his practice without a shred of logical explanation or reasoning. And the whole world follows. Nobody questions why the Dalai Lama has declared this except the die-hard Dorje Shugden practitioners like Kundeling RInpoche. The majority of the monasteries kow towed to the Dalai Lama - perhaps due to lack of choice. The ones that stood steadfast by their practice started the new Shugden monasteries of Serpom and Shar Gaden. They also give excellent reasons why they kept their practice.

If you want to talk about cult as something that is a devotion to a belief which is illogical, then the devotion to the ban of Dorje Shugden is more of a cult than Dorje Shugden itself!

[Aurore]

You are absolutely right. The ban of Shugden by the Dalai Lama displays a cult-ish act.

Below are some common characteristics to identify a group or organisation as a cult. Many of these points highlights what is currently happening with the ban.

Cults have a charismatic and controlling leader, who purportedly knows what God wants and demands.

Cults brainwash and indoctrinate their members.
Many of the pro Dalai Lama fans are brainwashed into thinking negatively of Dorje Shugden and turning against those who continues to practice Shugden.- Many of the pro Dalai Lama fans are brainwashed into thinking negatively of Dorje Shugden and turning against those who continues to practice Shugden.

Cults control members by making them dependent on the cult and instilling in them a sense of shame, guilt, and fear.
Practitioners gaved up Shugden practice for the fear of being ostracised and ex-communicated.

Cults do not allow questioning of their beliefs or practices.
No valid reasons are given and no freedom of choice in religious freedom

Cults claim to be the only true way to live and path to salvation.
If you practice Shugden, you will collect a lot of negative karma.

Cults have apocalyptic beliefs about the imminent end of the world.
If you practice Shugden, you will shorten HHDL's life. You are the cause of the downfall of Tibet.

Cults severely limit or completely cut off members’ access to and interaction with the outside world.
Children of Shugden practitioners are not allowed to attend schools, buy groceries, attend HHDL's teachings. 

Cults retaliate against people who leave the group by punishing them with excommunication and/or ostracizing, physically harming, or taking legal action against them.
Monks are expelled from their monasteries, death threats to high lamas who continues to practice Shugden.

Cults engage in criminal behavior, such as rape or statutory rape, suicide, murder, abduction, and weapons stockpiling.

Cults exploit members financially.


These are just few examples. Feel free to add on.
So who is the real cult now?

[Ensapa]

You are absolutely right. The ban of Shugden by the Dalai Lama displays a cult-ish act.

Below are some common characteristics to identify a group or organisation as a cult. Many of these points highlights what is currently happening with the ban.

Cults have a charismatic and controlling leader, who purportedly knows what God wants and demands.

Cults brainwash and indoctrinate their members.
Many of the pro Dalai Lama fans are brainwashed into thinking negatively of Dorje Shugden and turning against those who continues to practice Shugden.- Many of the pro Dalai Lama fans are brainwashed into thinking negatively of Dorje Shugden and turning against those who continues to practice Shugden.

Cults control members by making them dependent on the cult and instilling in them a sense of shame, guilt, and fear.
Practitioners gaved up Shugden practice for the fear of being ostracised and ex-communicated.

Cults do not allow questioning of their beliefs or practices.
No valid reasons are given and no freedom of choice in religious freedom

Cults claim to be the only true way to live and path to salvation.
If you practice Shugden, you will collect a lot of negative karma.

Cults have apocalyptic beliefs about the imminent end of the world.
If you practice Shugden, you will shorten HHDL's life. You are the cause of the downfall of Tibet.

Cults severely limit or completely cut off members’ access to and interaction with the outside world.
Children of Shugden practitioners are not allowed to attend schools, buy groceries, attend HHDL's teachings.

Cults retaliate against people who leave the group by punishing them with excommunication and/or ostracizing, physically harming, or taking legal action against them.
Monks are expelled from their monasteries, death threats to high lamas who continues to practice Shugden.

Cults engage in criminal behavior, such as rape or statutory rape, suicide, murder, abduction, and weapons stockpiling.

Cults exploit members financially.


These are just few examples. Feel free to add on.
So who is the real cult now?

No matter how you wanna see it, it does sound that the Dalai Lama's side of the story is more cultish as they seem to bind their followers to certain beliefs and mislead them based on misunderstandings and the like. That to me appears to be more cultlike. Also, has anyone noticed that it seems that nobody can question the Dalai Lama if you're at  his side of the camp and if you do you're somehow evil or something? As much as the Dalai Lama have always welcomed people to question him, I have yet to see one of his followers doing so.

[Gabby Potter]

Most of the people just go with the majority and never really think why. I must agree with the fact that Lord Dorje Shugden's practise is not suitable for those who don't investigate and think for themselves AND hurt the practitioners by calling their beliefs, their religion a cult.