German protests

[Orange]

It is worth noting that people have begun to post comments for this article.
http://www.wdr.de/themen/kultur/personen/dalai_lama/080516_bochum.jhtml

The first 2 items relate to the current situation.
That hardly any tibetans are involved in the protests but mainly NKT followers, that the NKT is controversial, that the NKT is not allowing religious freedom either and jokingly suggesting that one should start protests against them
That serious research has been undertaken regarding the DS issue. while the the shugden sect (btw, sekte and kult are interchangeable in german language) is exploiting the DS situation for propaganda against the DL, independent researchers show the culty background of the practice. that there's no prosecution is going on, instead high lamas and monasteric societies have voted democratically against the practice, and DS practitioners can do what they want in private

The next two give a little bit of history of how the ban came about, you can skim it for names to get an idea what it is about, the yellow book is mentioned, that the DL had to react to it, how the DL talked to Trijang Rinpoche about his findings regarding DS, how TR didn't make any counter arguments, and how the DL later made the conflict public by declining the DS new year's practice, and that the DL refers to the shugden cult (yes, kult) as ghost worshippers and called the practice non-Buddhist.

The one at the bottom is asking what the DL's teacher would say if he knew that the DL had banned the practice...

[Orange]

http://www.trimondi.de/Lamaismus/shugden.htm
here's the rough translation of the 2008 bit, i'll try to preserve the tone of it

In Feb 08 an official vote is held to decide about the practice of DS. following that 900 monks in south india were allegedly "expelled" from the tibetan community in exile, say the DS supporters. The government and DL counter that by saying that the vote was a democratic affair. The DS supporters rightly point out that the protection of religious minorities should not be subject to a majority based public vote.

A month later, in march 08, the western shugden society publishes a press kit, summarizing the discrimination against their cult once more. (quote along the lines of: many people have blind faith in you DL and believe you without any investigation...)

On april 9 and 12 the WSS sets two deadlines... you all know that bit

At the same the Dorje Shugden Society and the Lama Kundeling Rinpoche file a case with the high court in Delhi, re DL breaking human rights etc.

This was met with fury from Dharamsala. 10 secular organizations, including the associations of hotel-, restaurant-, and shop-owners signed a protest letter against the DSS, in which they say that the law suit etc is driven by china, and that it's about trying to destabilize the tibetan society, and to divert attention from the situation in tibet.

The DS followers, however, accuse the DL of being behind the uprising in tibet earlier this year. They quote the bit about how the DL says he's not after tibetan independence etc, see WSS brochure (ends with (69)). It is believable that the DS followers didn't initially have any ties with the chinese since they too have a history or anti-chinese resistance. Meanwhile, however, this probably is no longer the case, but it is understandable considering the unyielding ostracization (is that how it's spelled? you know what i mean) by the tibetan government.


Under the next main heading (krieg der schutzgoetter):

(71) The Shugden case shows clearly that a separation of state and church is non existent under the 14th DL, that instead we are looking at an autocratic religious system, a buddhocracy, that would be called fundamentalist by anybody finding something similar in a monotheistic religion.

Regardless of how one thinks of the Shugden conflict, the radical solution applied by the DL is not justifyable from an ethic, social, and political standpoint. He himself was initiated in this cult and practiced it. The cult has been part of the tibetan religious system since the 16th century. however much more important is to note that he is using his role as a secular politician to turn the entire machine (administration) of the state against Shugden devotees and their religous believes. This clearly goes against article 2 of the the Human Rights Charta.

[a friend]

Holy crackers!
Who are these people?
Now, these are decent individuals! Obviously they don't like our practices, but unlike the Newsweek's journalist --who wrote that the only "scratch in the Teflon Lama" was that he himself also believed in Protectors, and Mr. Newsweek, shame on you, ignored in the whole of his article the Dalai Lama's misdeeds--  this Trimondis are just producing that tiny bit of honest journalism we were hoping for without really expecting it. Kudos for the Trimondis!
What they say is radically correct, it should be put in golden letters at the top of this website. I bow in respect to the anticlerical people, at least they know something about human rights! Read again:

Regardless of how one thinks of the Shugden conflict, the radical solution applied by the DL is not justifyable from an ethic, social, and political standpoint. He himself was initiated in this cult and practiced it. The cult has been part of the Tibetan religious system since the 16th century. however much more important is to note that he is using his role as a secular politician to turn the entire machine (administration) of the state against Shugden devotees and their religious beliefs. This clearly goes against article 2 of the the Human Rights Charta.

Orange, thank you so very much for the translation!

[Alexis]

We should be very carefull with the Trimondis!

Their critical analysis of the Kalachakra tantra is the sort of 'critical/secular' reasoning that brought the Catholic Church down after Galileo. You can't answer them and it shows some practice are undefendable outside a lineage/insider interpretation.

Please use extreme caution when directing people (like journalists) to their site and don't forget to put your rubber gloves, some of this stuff is toxic!

[a friend]

Friends, let's open our eyes. Most people don't know, and if they know they dislike our system of Protectors, they think it's superstitious crap. The Trimondis are probably outright non religious, thus more outspoken, but read what a lady from Trycicle, a Buddhist, said to the press: that this conflict should serve us as a prompting, to see which parts of the doctrine we want to import to the West and which we wish to leave behind. This is some kind of hipocrite way of having their way, that the Dalai Lama has been promoting with his rigmè contraption, and it's the way of the New Age, the religion of my own picking a little bit here and abandoning what I don't like there, the religion without lineage, without transmissions ... without blessings. A Dakzin Buddhism, the religion invented by my own ego. But this is another battle, of another level, more profound, that awaits us.

Right now, what a gulp of fresh air the ones who completely dislike our system bring to us. They do not like us (just like others) but they defend our rights.

Read attentively what the Trimondis say:
Regardless of how one thinks of the Shugden conflict, the radical solution applied by the DL is not justifyable from an ethic, social, and political standpoint. He himself was initiated in this cult and practiced it. The cult has been part of the Tibetan religious system since the 16th century. However much more important is to note that he is using his role as a secular politician to turn the entire machine (administration) of the state against Shugden devotees and their religious beliefs. This clearly goes against article 2 of the the Human Rights Charta.

[jeff Ryan]

I am thrilled with the results of the Germany demonstration. I look forward to joining the USA demonstrations. Thank you WSS!

[theloneranger]

wow, check this video out of the german demo I JUST, there making so much noise:-

http://www.truveo.com/Anti-Dalai-Lama-Demo-N%C3%BCrnberg-Germany-180508/id/4133096103

PUMP UP THE VOLUME, PUMP UP THE VOLUME!

OM VAJRA WIKI WITRANA SOHA!

[theloneranger]

AND THERE'S MORE:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLFPv_W9Ro
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[a friend]

TK and all:

I suggest we collect the hate mail that Tibetans are sending to blogs etc.
It's one more proof about the nature of the actions of the Dalai Lama. The preacher of compassion has not only broken the Sangha, but produced a rift in the Tibetan lay community that it's difficult to qualify.

[Gabby Potter]

I hope that more protests like this will be held in order to get the attention from the media and public. It's time for the people to see and learn the truth, we must speak up and do something about it already.

[prodorjeshugden]

It is great to see that more and more people are beginning to realize that the Dalai Lama is doing something that is not appreciated by others.
Everybody should be free to practice what they want even if they worshiped idols or other unordinary stuff.
What's more even  though people practice something that is proven powerful and does not harm people, the CTA still finds reasons to kill other people simply because they practice Dholgyal.
It is really disturbing as they are threatening to kill people in terrible ways. Is that why Buddha came on earth for?? Did Buddha say oh i want to teach you all to murder other people for false reasons.
Plus these people are no ordinary people, they are high lamas who have practiced Dorje Shugden for life after life and have become highly attained.
The CTA thinks that by killing someone no one will practice Dorje Shugden any longer.
However the truth is just the opposites, more people are going to go against them and countries might not want to have anything to do with them, which could seriously hurt the Tibet.
I would love to meet the people who did the protest as they are heroes just like all the other people who do protest and put pressure on the Dalai Lama and the CTA.
If they continue their work for long, the pressure would become so great that the ban will be ended.

[kris]

when we look back in the history, it is amazing that International Shugden Community (previously known as Western Shugden Society) has started protests for so many years already. They are very committed and they are very consistent. And the good news is that more and more people are joining the protests. What is even more rewarding is that even more and more Tibetans are joining the protests. This is a big steps for the Tibetans because it is not their culture to stand up again HH Dalai Lama.

ISC, please keep up the good work and continue to protest and speak up against those who cannot speak for themselves!!