Tulku, Panchen, Dalai Lama, China....

[dsiluvu]

As most of us are aware about the 11th Panchen Lama controversial (HH Dalai Lama and China have their own candidates), I am wondering what will happen when HH Dalai Lama pass away.

There has been talk about HHDL may not re-incarnate back as human after this incarnation. HHDL himself had also said that He will not re-incarnate inside China. There are many different "versions", but what I am concern is something similar to 11th Panchen Lama, and it really confuse people.

If HHDL do not re-incarnate back, but China declared that HHDL has returned to China, then how do us lay people know who to listen to? Like the 11th Panchen Lama controversial, who do we lay people listen to?

Or we just don't care about the political stands and only focus on the Dharma teachings? Also, is there a way to end this confusion? (This 11th Panchen Lama controversial has really confused me, even until today)

Good question kris. Perhaps all this DRAMA is precisely what the Buddhas are doing so that like what Klein said we can go back to the real FOCUS which is the DHARMA and stop all the nonsense. Go back to the beginning before the Dalai Lama office was even created. Now maybe the karma of Tibetans with the Dalai Lama has been exhausted... like how Tibet's karma has finished and China take over it. Everything is impermanent and if we understood the Dharma, if CTA and Tibetans know Dharma, they would be less attached and more forgiving like what HHDL has been teaching for years actually.

Political stuff should be managed by politician and not mix it up with religion. And democracy means RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. Until the CTA get that right... they are getting more and more left behind as the world evolves more at a speeding paste which they will never ever be able to catch up. Sorry to say.

Also there is really nothing to worry about... because we're fortunate we have our own Guru to follow. Not everyone is a student of HHDL.

[Ensapa]

As most of us are aware about the 11th Panchen Lama controversial (HH Dalai Lama and China have their own candidates), I am wondering what will happen when HH Dalai Lama pass away.

There has been talk about HHDL may not re-incarnate back as human after this incarnation. HHDL himself had also said that He will not re-incarnate inside China. There are many different "versions", but what I am concern is something similar to 11th Panchen Lama, and it really confuse people.

If HHDL do not re-incarnate back, but China declared that HHDL has returned to China, then how do us lay people know who to listen to? Like the 11th Panchen Lama controversial, who do we lay people listen to?

Or we just don't care about the political stands and only focus on the Dharma teachings? Also, is there a way to end this confusion? (This 11th Panchen Lama controversial has really confused me, even until today)

Good question kris. Perhaps all this DRAMA is precisely what the Buddhas are doing so that like what Klein said we can go back to the real FOCUS which is the DHARMA and stop all the nonsense. Go back to the beginning before the Dalai Lama office was even created. Now maybe the karma of Tibetans with the Dalai Lama has been exhausted... like how Tibet's karma has finished and China take over it. Everything is impermanent and if we understood the Dharma, if CTA and Tibetans know Dharma, they would be less attached and more forgiving like what HHDL has been teaching for years actually.

Political stuff should be managed by politician and not mix it up with religion. And democracy means RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. Until the CTA get that right... they are getting more and more left behind as the world evolves more at a speeding paste which they will never ever be able to catch up. Sorry to say.

Also there is really nothing to worry about... because we're fortunate we have our own Guru to follow. Not everyone is a student of HHDL.

I dont think there is any serious issue with mixing religion with politics as long as people are not harmed AND the government do their duties and actually have a surplus of income which they can use to make investments or to repay the kindness of the indian government who have lent them land and support for so many years at the risk of instability and angering China.

But, CTA is not doing their job well and it seems all they're interested in is to relive their past at the expense of the people and they are encouraging self immolations and saying that it is a brave sacrifice when it is not as it is just needless behavior to attract nothing but attention at the cost of people who are still living and alive in Tibet. They also did not do much development to Dharamsala.

They are also allowing citizens to suffer needlessly, especially by harming its own citizens on the basis of the Dorje Shugden ban which is completely opposite of what a government should do. A government should protect their citizens irregardless of their political agenda or side, instead of harming them and causing them much grief and suffering over something so small when compared to the betterment of Dharamsala.

It is funny that the Tibetans follow the Dalai Lama's advice to ban Dorje Shugden but disregard the more simple advice of actually forgiving china and embracing them as brothers and sisters instead of fighting them either physically or emotionally. It is simply hilarious to see how one sided their Guru devotion is and how they conveniently ignore the advice that challenges their beliefs. What Guru devotion?

[brian]

For me personally, I feel I will be following what His Holiness has said, if he sayd he is not coming back as a human then we should not be too attached to find out whether the china version of Dalai Lama (if China really came up with one). In the end of the day it is our spiritual growth and we rely on our Gurus and our practice. For sure the will always be controversy anywhere but we believe what HHDL will say on his next reincarnation.

Actually brian you bring up a good point we often overlook. Ive noticed that as a tradition, were getting caught up with the outer trappings of religion. Its not easy to resist, with all this colourful esoteric stuff surrounding us. We want to show were religious and spiritual, when inside we might jsut be rotten to the core - my friends used to say they never understood their mates when they leave church, and swear in the parking lots. Thats not to say the rituals are not important, but ultimately the point of us practising is to achieve the inner attainments to free ourselves from this endless cycle of death and rebirth. And thats ultimately what Dorje Shugden is about. He isnt there to give us wealth, health, harmony, a new car and all that nonsense (go to the bank if you need that stuff!). Hes all about the lamrim and transformation, to the point its reflected in his body!

Thanks DD! Yeah we should just rely on our Guru and Protector on this as this is all we need to grow from our spiritual path and we do not need politics into religion. Especially in the midst of the cloud of Dorje Shugden controversy and the "real Panchen Lama boy" issue, it will be clearer when everything is settled at the end of the day.

Maybe, just maybe, HH Dalai Lama have already forseen all these coming and He used the same skill to promote Dorje Shugden to more people on this reincarnation issue?? Just a wild guess from my untrained mind. Maybe there is just another big picture behind this statement of HH Dalai Lama himself will not reincarnate back as human again...

[samayakeeper]

As most of us are aware about the 11th Panchen Lama controversial (HH Dalai Lama and China have their own candidates), I am wondering what will happen when HH Dalai Lama pass away.

There has been talk about HHDL may not re-incarnate back as human after this incarnation. HHDL himself had also said that He will not re-incarnate inside China. There are many different "versions", but what I am concern is something similar to 11th Panchen Lama, and it really confuse people.

If HHDL do not re-incarnate back, but China declared that HHDL has returned to China, then how do us lay people know who to listen to? Like the 11th Panchen Lama controversial, who do we lay people listen to?

Or we just don't care about the political stands and only focus on the Dharma teachings? Also, is there a way to end this confusion? (This 11th Panchen Lama controversial has really confused me, even until today)

I have high respect for HHDL and Earth would suffer a huge loss if HHDL decided not to reincarnate here. But I would continue to listen and follow the teaching, guidance and instruction of my lama who may not possess the qualities of HHDL. For it is my lama who is my teacher and guide, the one without fault.

The world would be a peaceful place to live in if only its inhabitants do not focus on politics. But where there are humans, there are politics. There is no escape.

[Ensapa]

I have high respect for HHDL and Earth would suffer a huge loss if HHDL decided not to reincarnate here. But I would continue to listen and follow the teaching, guidance and instruction of my lama who may not possess the qualities of HHDL. For it is my lama who is my teacher and guide, the one without fault.

The world would be a peaceful place to live in if only its inhabitants do not focus on politics. But where there are humans, there are politics. There is no escape.

I really liked what you said here. If HHDL passes on and decides to not come back forever, it would be a great loss to the world, especially to the Tibetans if they do not buck up and start to do things to take care of Dharamsala and the state of affairs of Tibetan Buddhism and its unity, but it does not affect non Tibetan practitioners as much as it affects the Tibetans.

Ultimately, if we all have our respective teachers and we follow him all the way, we do no need to depend on the Dalai Lama as much as the Tibetans do which is why i find it hard to understand when some western practitioners worry about this issue because, how will the Dalai Lama's absence affect you exactly when you're not directly connected to him as you already have your own teachers?

If our teachers are the one who can directly benefit and teach us, why would it be that we value the Dalai Lama over him and even go to the point of damaging others in his name? Which part of Buddhism teaches that or in what way is that Dharma practice or Guru devotion? Its just us covering our own insecurities in exchange for damaging others and at the end of the day we will be at the losing end.

It is different if you choose HHDL as your teacher, but then again you would need to follow all of his instructions to his disciples as much as possible, from the various books that he wrote so far. In any case, it would not make much of a difference whether or not he is alive as you cannot get direct and personalized instructions from him as he has no chance to observe you and vice versa and you can only learn from his books and recordings.