The Essence of the Controversy with a Few Frank Questions

[dsiluvu]

Great discussion and points here being mentioned....  the ends does not justify the means in this case which are obvious logic. As the Buddha has mentioned that Buddhism will destroy itself eventually from within... and we can very clearly how this can happen just by looking and what is happening here. I have never imagined this could happened to a Buddhist society where they shun their own Gurus, Dharma brothers and sisters, family, relatives and friends... a sign of degenerate times which is very sad. On the other hand while it is degenerating with a group of Tibetans it is also flourishing and regaining its growth in other parts of the world and definitely we can witness this in the west as well as China which is a rejoicing news. It brings me to think that something needs to be purged or purified in order for something bigger to manifest, perhaps?

The manifestation of enlightened beings to spread Dharma never seems to seize and this is one real life example that could be historical! As we know the current His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche 
has started turning the wheel of Dharma more actively now that he has turned 30 and in his recent visit to Mongolia he gave not one but 2 Dorje SHugden inititations!!!

And I would like to your attention to some  some good news that has been observed and highlighted here on His Holiness the Dalai Lama's new change of tune...

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/true-harmony-or-a-change-of-tune/
True Harmony or a Change of Tune?

There is a sudden change in tide with His Holiness the Dalai Lama's stance is being discussed here http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3033.0

[beggar]

Encouraging others to respect the Dalai Lama's wishes regarding Dorje Shugden seems virtuous, but it contributes to great non-virtue and schism in the international Buddhist community and destroys the reputation of holy Dharma. Making great effort to continue encouraging others to have a negative view of Dorje Shugden during talks or through writing seems virtuous, but it is really creating a culture of slander and schism in the international Buddhist community. It isn't as simple as 'we're just encouraging people not to rely on this Protector', it is proactively preventing harmony.

I would think that as practitioners, Lamas, and politicians with the welfare of others in their hands, we would be extremely concerned about the reputation of the BuddhaDharma and its community, not in the worldly sense, but out of a deep love, compassion, and wisdom that knows that a good reputation makes it much easier for people to develop faith and respect, and thereby enter progress on and complete the path to permanent freedom from this nightmare of samsara.

Is it not concerning that things such as the ban and the Karmapa feud have not only destroyed the spiritual lives of many practitioners, but has literally slammed the door in the face of many people who are in need of the medicine of Dharma?

Hi psylo....

I was especially taken by this point - how all of this reflects on the Buddhadharma on a much larger scale and affects the growth of Dharma throughout the world. Actually, the advice that the Dalai Lama gives - if we regard him as our teacher, then the decision we make about stopping or continuing the practice should only be between us and him (as our teacher). If he's not our teacher, then we don't even need to be concerned about this - we just follow the advice of our own teacher.

The problem is that this issue has become far beyond just the relationship between a practitioner and his relationship with the Dalai Lama. It has extended to people of Group A (for example)  slandering / attacking and discriminating against other practitioners, when really their samayas have nothing to do with anyone in Group A! I would regard it to be the same as if my teacher suddenly told me to focus on say, Guhyasamaja instead of Vajrayogini. He tells me Vajrayogini is no longer valid or is "harmful" to me at this time so I trust that he has his reasons for that and just follow his instructions to do Guhyasamaja instead, but it doesn't mean I need to go around slandering everyone else who is a Vajrayogini practitioner - their practice is none of my business!

So what happens when we do this is that the problem escalates from what should be just an personal relationship between disciple & Guru, to one that affects the immediate sangha we're practicing with (lay or ordained), then to the Buddhist community in our village or town, then to the country, then to the whole world. And this is how it has led to a situation where dharma centers in countries on the other end of the world from the exiled Tibetan community in India are imposing their own discriminations within their Buddhist communities. The directives about Dorje Shugden isn't just an instruction from a Guru to his disciples but has become a whole global controversy.

And, (now going back to your point)  while Group A and Group B are merrily going around doing what they do, they forget that the rest of the 6 billion people in the world will look upon this and wonder to themselves "is this what Buddhists do? is this how Buddhists follow the instructions of their teachers? is this how Buddhists treat each other?" There is enough controversy and politics everywhere else in the world - people will certainly not want to go into yet another religion with controversy and politics. And so, like you say, people who are in great need of the medicine of Dharma will not receive it - simply because a political issue has arisen as an obstacle in the minds of many.

So those of us trying to promote religious purity of our lineage by upholding what the Dalai Lama has decreed - think: are we really promoting and preserving? Or imploding on ourselves and becoming more and more insular?

[Ensapa]

distinctly recall the great Yogi and Scholar Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche saying in a teaching that if our teachers are acting inappropriately we need to respectfully speak up and ask them to explain themselves. So that is what I'm doing in this thread and elsewhere. I do not have qualms standing up and saying what I'm saying to the Lamas perpetuating this ban and the ensuing disharmony because their actions do not accord with the Dharma and basic human freedoms. While maintaining pure view, I am considering what is appearing to the human conventions of our world society and saying, this is very wrong and not only does it need to stop, but measures need to be taken immediately to improve the reputation of Buddhism in our world. Therefore, I mean no disrespect in saying this, but how can we sit in front of people teaching loving kindness and how true and powerful the Dharma is as a medicine for the suffering of the world, then turn around and perpetuate the exact opposite by continuing to maintain the ban, writing slanderous things about Dorje Shugden, and encouraging others to do the same and worse.

Thank you for your interesting views, but yes, this is explained that we must speak up if our Guru displays action that contradicts the Dharma and ask for an explanation simply because the days of the mahasiddhas have come to an end and Tibetan Lamas no longer have the freedom to beat people up. I remember that Zong Rinpoche used to beat up monks and even abbots who made mistakes to purify their negative karma, but how would that be able to happen in today's society? It is difficult if we need to ask our Gurus for explanation every step of the way and it will only slow him down.

I dont think the people who talk about the positive teachings and the people who are nasty against Dorje Shugden are usually the same crowd, probably for one or two cases. And i believe people can feel their hypocrisy right away without even asking more or hanging around more to know. These crusaders may feel that they're the best practitioners in the world, but people looking at them will be disgusted at their behavior.

[psylotripitaka]

My concluding thoughts on this thread - this is the essential point at the heart of the ban appearing to all of us:

At the end of the day, though we may focus on many different things, the most important point is that we take complete responsibility for what our mind is producing and use that very substance to support inner realizations and therefore the swift destruction of our contaminated aggregates, for the Kali Yuga is not separate from that. In Pure Dakini Land, there is no suffering; no ban; no broken samaya. From the point of view of both Sutra and Tantra, surely we see how our circumstances, when conjoined with mindfulness of wisdom, are the quick path to enlightenment; to that Pure Dakini Land!

Whoever you are, whoever your Guru is, whatever hard decisions we are faced with, please do not miss this essential point. Please seize this opportunity.

As Je Pabonkhapa said:

- "Right this moment is the time to steel your will!"
- "It's not only time - it's almost too late."
- "It's time to place real experience upon your midstream."
- "Who's the faster: Yama, the Lord of Death, or you in your practice of realizing the essence of your eternal dream - the welfare of both yourself and others - as much as you can each day? Unifying your three doors, put the whole of your effort into your practice."

[dondrup]

I wrote the following post in response to writings by a member calling themselves Tenzin Gyatso, and though it is directed as such, it is really an open letter to any member of this site that is anti-Shugden. To the rest of you, please excuse my multiple posting of this but I've wanted to express it for some time.



The Essence of the Controversy with a Few Frank Questions

Tenzin Gyatso, it is important to get an objective perspective on the controversy, looking at it from the outside without an emotionally charged interest in either party. Such perspective sees that actions speak for themselves. I stepped back and had a good look, and saw how easy it is for people to get so emotionally fired up they miss the point completely.

Though there are many facets to the controversy, the fact of the matter is, the main and most important thing to acknowledge is it boils down to very well-documented religious and human rights abuses. It is so strange to me how a person can be so obsessed with a popular personality that they refuse to see how what is actually going on is totally inappropriate, destructive, and disrespectful. When we look at the situation objectively, here is what you typically see:

One group of people(Group A) - through coercion, death threats, economic threats, shrine and home destruction, ostracism and so forth - forcing another group of people(Group B) to stop their religious practices and give up their human rights.

Group B peacefully communicates the damage being done and requests the forced ban to be lifted; they peacefully and repeatedly request open dialogue and clarification; they peacefully demonstrate to encourage Group A to stop their abusive and destructive campaign; they provide excessive valid logical reasons for their religious views and so forth.

Group A disregards all these things, and quite simply engages in actions that clearly contradict the BuddhaDharma; contradict basic human and religious rights; and contradict common sense.

If some popular teacher came along and told Christians they had to stop believing in Christ and gave all sorts of ridiculous superstitious reasons why they have to do this and constantly contradicted themselves in the process, then forced the ban through various illegal and harmful actions, only someone who was not in their right mind would think this is ok. I mean Jeezus, this isn't rocket science people.

I can understand why some people (out of fear of the extensive negative repercussions of not doing so) would tow the party line and go along with the ban. However, to those free thinkers who are not necessarily impacted directly by the negative consequences to ones life of not abandoning their religious right, people all over the world with objective common sense are forced to ask the question - wtf is wrong with these people?

So I'm asking you directly Tenzin Gyatso, in the light of so much evidence and sincere objective contemplation of the situation at hand, how is it possible for a "Buddhist" to look at this situation and be so intensely supportive of actions that completely contradict the Dharma and cause intense harm to living beings?

I ask, because when I give a non-biased explanation of the circumstances to non-Buddhist friends of mine, its a no-brainer for them. So do please explain to all of us here reading your posts, as a Buddhist who strongly supports all the intense non-virtue arisen from this ban, how have you come to have complete disregard for empirical evidence of human and religious rights abuse? How have you come to the conclusion that this shit is ok for Buddhists to do? Seriously, all the deity/demon stuff and who's who aside(totally irrelevant really), the reality of abuse laid bare, how can anyone in their right mind think this shit is ok?

The controversy really isn't about Dorje Shugden after all, it's about Freedom vs. a Destruction of Freedom that has destroyed the reputation of Buddhadharma and the faith and lives of many.

Seriously Tenzin Gyatso, why is it so hard for Buddhists to be kind? I know, it sounds fucking crazy right!

It doesn't have to be like this.

With Much Sincere Love,
psylotripitaka

I concur with what you have said.

Below are my thoughts:

1)   Anti-Dorje Shugden practitioners should respect the basic religious freedom and human rights of every Dorje Shugden practitioners
2)   Similarly Dorje Shugden practitioners should not hate or reciprocate with violence against those anti-Dorje Shugden practitioners
3)   The ban has tarnished and caused much disrepute to Buddhism.  Why continue with the ban?  Lift the ban on Dorje Shugden.  No one should suffer because of the ban on Dorje Shugden. No one should cause harm to the Dorje Shugden practitioners.
4)   Without being disrespectful, even if you are His Holiness the Dalai Lama, as long as your actions contradict with the worldly conventions or laws, it will be totally unacceptable. What more if the actions are in total contravention with the ethics required of a Buddhist! The ban on Dorje Shugden is not acceptable!
5)   It is the collective karma that the ban on Dorje Shugden has come about.  As long as the karma of the ban is not purified, the ban continues to remain.  Hence, collectively, Dorje Shugden practitioners must make the effort to purify the negative karma, to right the wrong, to create the necessary causes to lift the ban, and to make the tradition of Dorje Shugden to flourish.

[Ensapa]

There is some other things that I would like to discuss about the 'essence', but mainly about how it has affected many Buddhists and forums across the internet and how much misunderstanding that it has planted in the minds of others. I have met people who say that Dorje Shugden is against Rime....Gelug IS Rime, the Rime movement was created in reaction to the Gelugpa's influence and power as the other 3 traditions were worried if they would be swallowed by the Gelug tradition, following the incidents that happened during the 5th Dalai Lama's time when his ambitious changtzo Sangye Gyatso machinated and orchestrated a lot of takedowns and takeovers of monasteries of other traditions.

fast forward to this time period, the Yellow Book who was supposed to be only circulated amongst Zemey Rinpoche's students has fell into the hands of people who are not supposed to read it, and old wounds of being persecuted resurfaced, and probably the ban on Dorje Shugden was placed to not alarm or shock them too much.

[beggar]

Gelug IS Rime

Well I think a lot of people forget that the whole basis of the Gelug teachings, as 'founded' and expounded by Lama Tsongkhapa is upon the other three traditions. If anything, the Gelug school is the least sectarian because it's entire basis is upon teachings of all other existing Buddhist traditions of Tibet AND of the Indian masters. It's as fair and as encompassing as it could get! This isn't to say that the Gelugs are better than any other school (we know that all schools are equally powerful and have the equal potential to bring us attainments), but the teachings were distilled from all existing schools and re-presented in a way that would be easiest and most accessible to people of this time - this is acknowledging that while all teachings are relevant, important and good, the karmas and dispositions of the people's minds do change over time, so the teachings are just 'repackaged' (for lack of a better word) to suit the time. It is never that one is better than another.

If people would only realise this, so much of the sectarian accusations being bounced about would and should stop.

[Ensapa]

Gelug IS Rime

Well I think a lot of people forget that the whole basis of the Gelug teachings, as 'founded' and expounded by Lama Tsongkhapa is upon the other three traditions. If anything, the Gelug school is the least sectarian because it's entire basis is upon teachings of all other existing Buddhist traditions of Tibet AND of the Indian masters. It's as fair and as encompassing as it could get! This isn't to say that the Gelugs are better than any other school (we know that all schools are equally powerful and have the equal potential to bring us attainments), but the teachings were distilled from all existing schools and re-presented in a way that would be easiest and most accessible to people of this time - this is acknowledging that while all teachings are relevant, important and good, the karmas and dispositions of the people's minds do change over time, so the teachings are just 'repackaged' (for lack of a better word) to suit the time. It is never that one is better than another.

If people would only realise this, so much of the sectarian accusations being bounced about would and should stop.

Unfortunately, as I have found out and learned, in the other 3 traditions, students are encouraged to mix traditions up. Many of my friends from the other traditions tell me that their Lamas encourage them to as many initiations as possible and to attend as many teachings by different masters as possible (personally I think its because their Lamas are aware that they will either not take the Dharma seriously or that they will not have any fruits from their Dharma practice, so they figured that these people should get as many Dharma seeds planted in them as possible in this life) so when these students study Gelug and they try to impose what they have 'learnt', they think it is too forbidding and too suffocating for them to not be able to explore other traditions and hence the misunderstanding. But besides that, there is also the drivel that the CTA is spreading that everyone should explore as many traditions as possible.

So all these sectarian things are just misunderstandings and the fact that these people actually lack the merits to apply the Dharma in actual practice and its usually these people who think that Gelug is sectarian when they barely study anything about Gelug.