Think again!

[Positive Change]

I know a lot has been said, discussed and debated on the matter... however, let me throw this in the spanner yet again with these two rather interesting yet contradictory statements below!

HHDL is a man revered by nearly the whole world, but surely we are free to ask for clarification when we see blatant contradictions in his words and behaviors or are we?

Whether we believe that this man is indeed a great being and hence immediately develop an air of hysteria should anyone try to investigate or critisize his actions (I too am guilty of this on occasion). We need to realize that the Dharma is still the Dharma and is not "conditional" to one perfect or imperfect (to some) practitioner. If the Dharma is to survive in this world, we need to be able to take an honest look at how it is being represented and promoted in the world.

There are many non-political spiritual guides teaching the pure Dharma of the Nyingma, Sakya and Kagyu traditions, as well as the Ganden tradition of Je Tsongkhapa. If we rely on our teachers and forget worldly motivations, the Dharma will thrive here in the west and throughout the world.

I am interested to see if anyone can explain this one to me. Here are the Dalai Lama’s own words…

“Anyway, Ling Rinpoche’s opposition to me receiving the transmission of that Tantra was based upon his fear of Dolgyal. Therefore, what happened was that though I wanted to take that Tantra, because of someone’s fear of Dolgyal, I was unable to. My rights to freedom of religious choice were thus violated.”
- HHDL, Second Gelug Conference, Dharamsala, December 2000.

So the Dalai Lama is here claiming that his Tantric spiritual guide was afraid of “Dolgyal,” a pejorative way of referring to Dorje Shugden.


“When I generate faith in the precious Dharma, I generate real faith in the precious Buddha. And I also have genuine faith in the qualified followers of the Buddha. The statement that if you have pure refuge, you will not be harmed either by humans or non-humans, is definitive.”
- HHDL, A talk on Dholgyal, Dharamsala, October 1997.

And yet in this statement above, HHDL is saying that someone with Refuge has no need to fear spirits. So what is he saying? That Ling Rinpoche doesn’t understand this? Hence why would Ling Rinpoche be afraid of “Dolgyal?”

Ling Rinpoche was NOT afraid of “Dolgyal,” something that would be immediately obvious to anyone who knows who this lama was. Moreover, Ling Rinpoche was incredibly devoted to his root guru, the renowned lama Pabongka Rinpoche, whose main protector was Dorje Shugden.  There can be no question that he never feared the protector of his own spiritual guide, who he loved and revered. It seems HHDL is setting a new precedent for relating to one’s Guru, a tradition in a style not seen before in the Vajrayana.

So what are we left to conclude? HHDL says Ling Rinpoche was afraid of spirits. It seems that either HHDL is appearing to be lying, or he sincerely believed that his own spiritual guide had no refuge, and therefore is not even a Buddhist. Either way, it is not a pretty picture.

Is there something I am not getting? Perhaps there is truly a missing piece of the puzzle that will befit the
conclusion? We all want to see HHDL as a great being, but how can we, if we cannot even understand or comprehend this behavior?

[honeydakini]

hmmmm this is interesting and thanks for finding such a key quotation. Certainly throws a spanner in the works. This is something quite out of the blue, as we do know that Ling Rinpoche, (as well as Trijang Rinpoche) was a strong practitioner of Dorje Shugden.

Then again, perhaps this was the beginning of the big divine play. Remember that Trijang Rinpoche has also prophesied and anticipated very clearly in his writings before he passed on that there would be seeming conflict between the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden (but then advised that we must maintain patience towards both and not speak badly against either). So it is likely that both the Dalai Lama tutors were "in cahoots" (for lack of a better word!) with what is going on now.

Yes, it is completely illogical. Not only would Ling Rinpoche have taken refuge, but he had definitely also taken ordination vows, and is a tulku with full control of his rebirths. Why would such an attained beings, who is further protected by full sets of vows, be threatened by a spirit? That's saying that a spirit is more powerful and has more influence than a being as attained as Ling Rinpoche? This is not possible. This has also been the same reason that the Dalai Lama has used in turn - that Shugden can harm or shorten his life.

This does throw very interesting new light on the situation though, indicating that the ban didn't start just with the Dalai Lama, but may have begun to be planned by and with his two most prominent teachers too.

What do the rest of you think? a big divine plot? Or just a senile mistake?

[michaela]

I always think that the ban itself is a big divine plot because it is stated clearly in Trijang Rinpoche’s Music Delighting Oceans of Protectors.  It appears that right now with the development of DS issues, Trijang Rinpoche’s explanation is the only logical explanation available out there.

I just wonder though, for a Lama, like HHDL, who is the object of refuge for thousands if not millions of people, to issue contradictory statements such as “He can be harmed by a spirit” or “A spirit can shorten his life,” while at the same time he is teaching the benefits of refuge and ordination vows. Would not that be the same as giving incorrect information to his students and initiate confusion among them?

Even for someone like me who is not HHDL students and have read Trijang Rinpoche’s explanation, HHDL contradictory statements about DS have caused a lot of frustrations.

[Ensapa]

If I am not mistaken, HHDL has mentioned a few times before that the main reason why he does not like Dorje Shugden is because he does not like the idea of just studying Gelug exclusively and would like to study all other traditions as well especially within the Tibetan tradition. As Dorje Shugden promotes the practice of having and focusing on one tradition and respecting the rest of the traditions, HHDL has expressed his unhappiness on Dorje Shugden due to that reason alone. The account that Positive Change had shared highlights this point clearly, although personally, i think Ling Rinpoche would have passed on those initiations anyway at a later time, but it seems to me that HHDL is unhappy at that fact and blamed it on Dorje Shugden. I dont think Dorje Shugden would stop any qualified lama from studying teachings of another tradition when the time is right or when the conditions are so that the Lama should study them. From some of the accounts I have read on why HHDL has banned Dorje Shugden, most of it still points back to the few incidents where HHDL claims that Dorje Shugden warned him from practicing some Nyingma Termas via dreams and visions, that is, apart from the nice philosophical reasons that are on HHDL's website.

But some weird questions do remain and are brought up by these accounts/stories: why is it that Dorje Shugden can harm HHDL? What does HHDL have to fear Dorje Shugden when he can be doing so many other pujas and rituals? Is HHDL not Chenrezig? Why did Ling Rinpoche witheld those tantric teachings and why did HHDL decide to blame it on Dorje Shugden? If he is really the Dalai Lama, and the Dalai Lama is always attained enough to receive teachings anytime, why did Ling Rinpoche not pass those teachings to HHDL? maybe there is a reason that is not related to Dorje Shugden, but at the moment, Dorje Shugden is being made the cover for this. The real reason for HHDL's annoyance with Dorje Shugden has not been revealed as to me, the implications that I have made above does not really make much sense to me, either.

[Big Uncle]

hmmmm this is interesting and thanks for finding such a key quotation. Certainly throws a spanner in the works. This is something quite out of the blue, as we do know that Ling Rinpoche, (as well as Trijang Rinpoche) was a strong practitioner of Dorje Shugden.

Then again, perhaps this was the beginning of the big divine play. Remember that Trijang Rinpoche has also prophesied and anticipated very clearly in his writings before he passed on that there would be seeming conflict between the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden (but then advised that we must maintain patience towards both and not speak badly against either). So it is likely that both the Dalai Lama tutors were "in cahoots" (for lack of a better word!) with what is going on now.

Yes, it is completely illogical. Not only would Ling Rinpoche have taken refuge, but he had definitely also taken ordination vows, and is a tulku with full control of his rebirths. Why would such an attained beings, who is further protected by full sets of vows, be threatened by a spirit? That's saying that a spirit is more powerful and has more influence than a being as attained as Ling Rinpoche? This is not possible. This has also been the same reason that the Dalai Lama has used in turn - that Shugden can harm or shorten his life.

This does throw very interesting new light on the situation though, indicating that the ban didn't start just with the Dalai Lama, but may have begun to be planned by and with his two most prominent teachers too.

What do the rest of you think? a big divine plot? Or just a senile mistake?

This is all very strange, doesn't it? I read that Kyabje Ling Rinpoche was responsible for the composition of a propitiation text on Mahakala, Dharmaraja, Palden Lhamo, Vaishravana and Dorje Shugden. I read about this from one of the articles on this website itself. Then, he goes around and show disfavor with Dorje Shugden. I am not sure what is this suppose to mean but I have heard of another famous Lama who did the same.

According to a text written by Dagom Rinpoche, the 16th Karmapa is believed to have made a prophecy that Dorje Shugden will be very big in the future and that everyone will be practicing him. Then, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche manifested being afraid that the visiting Karmapa would see his offerings to Dorje Shugden. It is all very strange and confusing but I always believe that the Lama are compelled to act according to the karma of the people. I dunno if contradiction is part of the karmic equation but that's what it seems right now. I tend to believe that eventually, the Lamas will all be on Dorje Shugden's side, even the Dalai Lama...

[Ensapa]

Another strange thing is that most of HHDL's reasons for not practicing Dorje Shugden come from sources that cannot really be verified. It is usually based on hearsay or something to  that effect such as the statement about Ling Rinpoche that nobody can guess if it is true or not. Sometimes, it sounds more like the Dalai Lama's opinion. Sometimes, it sounds like a very weak excuse for anyone to make for not practicing Dorje Shugden. In any case, if we dig deeper into the words, we will find that the reasons are not real reasons at all.