Kyabje Zong Rinpoche's rare audio description of Shugden!

[Mana]

A very rare audio by His Holiness Kyabje Zong Rinpoche explaining about Shugden's lineage. Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen translates.  Transcript included.
This is something everyone should listen to carefully, understand and share with others. Masters of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche's calibre is beyond doubt. If Kyabje Zong Rinpoche can practice Shugden, then Shugden is without a doubt a protector we can rely on.

Audio: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=11618

Mana
Photo-Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and Gangchen Rinpoche in Varanasi

[shugdenpromoter]

Dear Mana,

Thank you for this wonderful picture of Zong Rinpoche and Gangchen Rinpoche.

I got this from the article of the website
"Both Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen trusted Shugden wholeheartedly and encouraged their students to practice. Much compassion and care can be heard from this precious and rare audio tape"

I wonder whether the current Zong Rinpoche practices Shugden. I have heard from some sources before that Zong Rinpoche used to visit the Protector House next to Zong Ladrang everyday in Gaden Shartse to do his prayers. When the ban reached its peak, Zong Rinpoche stopped.

Even IF he does practice Shugden, I wonder what Gaden Shartse will do. They have lost so many great lamas and ladrang in the last 3-4 years. They only have Kensur Kunchok Tsering & Zong Rinpoche now. If you look at layman point of view, they can't afford to loose anymore high lamas, this is very bad publicity and it will affect their fundraising activities which I am sure it has been very much affected already.

Anyway, it is nice to hear Zong Rinpoche voice . Very nice. I remember a monk has told me that even by playing the audio of a high lama, it will wart of spells and black magic if the samaya of the students is intact and strong.

[vajratruth]

This is a valuable audio and it is a joy to hear Zong Rinpoche's voice.

Zong Rinpoche had a fierce reputation of being a wrathful Lama with impeccable knowledge of many things including Science. This High Lama was also known to be capable of powerful magic and removing obstacles. At Gaden as well as other regions such as Dechen and Maldo, Zong Rinpoche was famous for converting local spirits that were haunting livestock as well as people amnd he was well known as a low key albeit wielder of Tantric power.

If Dorje Shugde is indeed an evil spirit, why would a High Lama of Rinpoche's calibre, who is well capable of exorcising spirits, tells us instead that he is in fact a Buddha? Zong Rinpoche was famous for being no-nonsense and did not accept anything that did not meet His tremendous power of logic and reasoning....and here he is, sharing his knowledge of Dorje Shugden as a true Dharmapala - an enlightened defender of the Dharma, as well as an emanation of the Buddha Vajrapani.

[jessicajameson]

Thanks for sharing both the audio and transcript! I enjoy hearing great masters doing recounts on events we were not so fortunate to experience.

For those who haven't seen The Illustrated Story (video on the homepage) or seen the lineage tree on the homepage of Ds.com... this audio teaching actually serves to be a good summary! Viewers on this website can also rest assured as all the info on the site matches up with Zong Rinpoche's.


I read back on some of the older posts and in this one there were a few people discussing on who was it that went to Tushita  to receive the DS empowerment. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=8. Zong Rinpoche answered that it was Tagpu Rinpoche.

From Tagpu Rinpoche, the DS practice was passed to Pabongka Rinpoche, and then to Trijang Rinpoche... these great masters had hundreds if not thousands of students... how is it that DS practitioners are of such a minority...

Was it such a rare practice during Pabongka Rinpoche's and Trijang Rinpoche's time?

[DS Star]

Thank you Mana for this post. It is very delightful to hear the voice of the great HH Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and of Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen.

The transcript is very helpful for us to better understand the teachings and for us to check again and again... people like me need this a lot

HH Kyabje Zong Rinpoche gave a very clear recounts of Dorje Shugden, how he arises and who were his past lives' incarnations.

Two main points that struck me very deeply from this teaching are;

1. Mahasiddha Birwapa using his miracle powers to force devotees of a temple to give up the practice of sacrificing animals to worship their 'God' (deity). A truely beautiful example of a compassionate bodhisattva.

2. Nechung and Dorje Shugden are true allies in their efforts to protect Je Tsongkhapa's pure teachings.

They made the highest sacrifices e.g. Dorje Shugden (Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen) with his life and Nechung with his reputation to be labelled as sometimes inaccurate in his prophecies like when he told HHDL to stay in Tibet when later DS asked HHDL to leave. Nechung is also seen as sided with HH Dalai Lama to go against Dorje Shugden's practitioners.

The truth is, it was Nechung (emanated as a young boy) who made the request to students of Je Tsongkhapa to protect the holy teachings. And Nechung was also the one to remind Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen of the promise that he made when was Dulzin Drakpa Gyeltsen; the great student of Je Tsongkhapa.

“I will make a cause of death”, Nechung told Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen.

So it is very clear that Nechung was the one that created the cause for Dorje Shugden to arise as powerful Dharmapala.

These accounts of the events being told by HH Kyabje Zong Rinpoche, a highly realised and highly attained lama, thus I have no mean at all to doubt anything he said or told. This only serve to proof that all Dharmapalas are doing their very best to protect Buddha's teachings and especially the sacred and rare teachings of Lama Je Tsongkhapa.

My conclusion: unless I have the same attainments as them, I don't know what their plans are. They may create certain conditions to be seen as negative but the truth is, it is still for the cause of spreading the dharma to benefits sentient beings.

[kris]

Thank you Mana for the audio clip. It is such a blessing to hear from such a High Lama! Also, special thanks to whoever transcribed the whole audio clip!! I can't understand most of the Dharma talk, but with the transcript, not only I can understand the Dharma Talk fully, I can also listen to His Holiness Kyabje Zong Rinpoche's voice!

Even thought I have read the lineage of Dorje Shugden before, but hearing it from HH Zong Rinpoche is something out of this world

What I like most about the teaching, is that "a promise is a promise, no matter after how many lifetimes". Dulzin made the promise and after a few lifetimes, when he remembered his promise, he just comply and do.

[LosangKhyentse]

His Holiness Zong Rinpoche is the Maha Guru of all Gurus. His practice of Shugden was without any imperfections. He proliferated the pure Buddha Dharma throughout his life in so many places tirelessly.

Zong Rinpoche attributed his success in his Dharma works to Shugden. How can a great Maha Guru like Zong Rinpoche be wrong in practicing Shugden. How can His Holiness Dalai Lama says it is wrong. It never makes any sense. Zong Rinpoche cannot be wrong. All the great masters who hold Shugden in the highest reverance cannot be wrong.

TK

[thor]

TK, you have put it beautifully. I have complete faith on Kyabje Zong Rinpoche's words and teachings, and I enjoyed listening to the recording Mana shared very much. It is a blessing to hear his holy voice.

I have heard the story of Shugden before, but the accounting from Zong Rinpoche was special and there were some points mentioned that I wasnt aware of. I particularly liked the followed two sections:

"Then the attendant of the 5th Dalai Lama, Desi Sangye, killed Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. But His Holiness the Dalai Lama doesn’t know anything, no. Then this attendant of the Dalai Lama he told to His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was very sick. His Holiness the Dalai Lama then said, “If he is sick, I want to go to there and I want to see him”.

Desi Sangye Gyatso then said “Oh, you cannot go there. Your Holiness please you don’t go because his sickness is very dizzy. Very dizzy. Very badly dizzy. Also it is not good for you. Please don’t go”. And he stopped His Holiness from going there whilst on the other side, Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen’s body was burned."

I didnt realise how hard Desi Sangye Gyatso tried to keep the 5th Dalai Lama away from his misdeed of killing Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. I dont doubt it, but its good to hear more confirmation that the 5th Dalai Lama was in no way involved with the murder of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen.

"Since then, very powerful protector, a very powerful, great quality protector, therefore then *sog-wang7, means the initiation of the Gyalchen, since then can, when they were given the initiation of the Dharmapala… that blessed Dharmapala through the text by Lama Rinchen Wangyal. But then sometimes, that one also the text lost.
Since then lost that text, and then people, even high level teachers they couldn’t get the initiations of Dharmapala.
Then during Kyabje Pabongkhapa’s time and also Tagphu Dorje Chang. Tagphu Dorje Chang, a very great Mahasidda, he is very great, truly great Mahashidda. And then Kyabje Pabongkhapa asked Tagphu Dorje Chang,“Please try to get the initiation of the Dharmapala because we need it”, asked."

This is completely amazing for me on many levels, primarily because I didnt know that Dorje Shugden's initiation was lost to the world at one point. Nor did I know how much of a role Kyabje Pabongka actually played to recover the lost practice of Dorje Shugden! Incredible. When I go home later tonight, the picture of Pabongka Rinpoche on my altar will have special significance to me. 

[samayakeeper]

By saying all the great lamas are wrong tantamount to saying Je Rinpoche is wrong. Then in between, all the Dalai Lamas are also wrong. Since HHDL says that his own teacher is wrong, then the whole lineage is wrong. I wonder why HHDL is saying this, I wonder. I wonder why HHDL puts his reputation at stake with the ban on Dorje Shugden practice. Or maybe he is 'sacrificing' his reputation for a bigger cause. I wonder.....

[Ensapa]

His Holiness Zong Rinpoche is the Maha Guru of all Gurus. His practice of Shugden was without any imperfections. He proliferated the pure Buddha Dharma throughout his life in so many places tirelessly.

Zong Rinpoche attributed his success in his Dharma works to Shugden. How can a great Maha Guru like Zong Rinpoche be wrong in practicing Shugden. How can His Holiness Dalai Lama says it is wrong. It never makes any sense. Zong Rinpoche cannot be wrong. All the great masters who hold Shugden in the highest reverance cannot be wrong.

TK

If Zong Rinpoche who was the best debater in the whole of Ganden can be wrong, what can believe in or take refuge in anymore? It is said that the way he debated was flawless, and it was as if Chandrakiriti, one of the saints who wrote the commentaries to Nagajurna's original work, so if he was that highly respected and his capabilities and wisdom is that high and proven, if he is wrong what else is holy?

From the different sources of biographies about Zong Rinpoche, there is only one conclusion to it, that he is an extremely attained and realized being and there is no doubt around that whatever he teaches or says is an extremely holy teaching by its own. It also means that if Zong Rinpoche is wrong then the entire monastery is wrong too as they were the ones who awarded him the Geshe degree.

Great masters like Pabongkha Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche cannot and can never be wrong because they are the very core of the current wave of Gelug teachings. If they are wrong it would mean that Gelugpa now is not effective but how can that be when still so many people can benefit from it. I am also completely aware that there other traditions who put them down to put Gelugpa down.

I believe that HHDL placed the ban with a reason..however he also implied that Pabongkha Rinpoche was wrong which I was quite shocked about. The only reason I could think of is to pacify the other lineages that had intense but concealed jealousy against Pabongkha Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche. Such is the responsibility of the Dalai Lama.

[Dondrup Shugden]

This video and transcribed English translation of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche's teaching on the history of Dorje Shudgen is very powerful.

First to even have the opportunity to hear the voice of a Great Master like Zong Rinpoche is a awesome blessing.  A verbal translation and very well transcribed version for the readers not even miss any details.

Kyabje Zong Rinpoche was one of the great teachers who practised Dorje Shugden and made it know that it is the practice of Dorje Shugden that made the Dharma which he teaches to grow.

Zong Rinpoche lived during the era of Trijang Rinpoche and they were both great debaters in Ganden.