Nothing Higher to live for

[dsiluvu]

Based on the topic "Nothing Higher to live for" and based on Buddhist teachings... I would definitely disagree that "romantic love" is something we should be living our lives seeking for. Definitely not a "higher purpose to live for", nor it is something required in one's spiritual practice and growth. More often said then practiced and more easily said then done,  it brings about more suffering then happiness causing more distractions in most cases especially if you are fresh and new to Dharma and your foundation is not solid.

But if one is already in a romantic relationship then your advice below would be suitable in such circumstances....

If we don't attempt with honest and consistent effort to utilize appearances to enhance our spiritual realizations, what the hell are we doing? The opposite. It is difficult to make quick progress if we are mostly training in delusion. We have to want to make real progress; really value spiritual attainments. If we do, then we will definitely find ways to use our relationship to enhance our realizations.

But do bare in mind, not everyone has the capacity and such solid foundation in practicing the above as you mentioned. It is quite a fine line to walk on especially if one's foundation is still very new. If everyone could actually practice as the above, I believe we would not be sitting here discussing this already.

Bottom line is to live one's life looking and seeking for relationships, putting one's effort solely on it, the energy and time looking for a relationship, craving and wanting it is in itself "suffering", then in this case it is just another desirous attachment which reinforces one's already strong desirous attachments that becomes an obstacle to one's spiritual practice unfortunately.

If the focus is on "love" as in developing compassion and love towards all mother sentient being, then why is there a "need" for "romantic" love? The very fact there is a "need" for it shows that we are still very much in delusion of what real love truly means, and from being honest about it, that is where we can start working from.

[dsiluvu]

I found this teaching quite apt for our understanding in all levels... those new and senior

The Buddha and Love
- by Gil Fronsdal, August 30th, 2005

Did the Buddha love? If he was beyond passion, was he also beyond love? Is there passionless love? And if there is, does it have any value for us?

A few centuries after the Buddha’s lifetime, a controversy arose concerning the Buddha’s emotional life. A group of monks declared that, since the Buddha was araga, or free of passion, he was incapable of emotions such as compassion and love. The counterargument stated that this simplistic view implied that the Buddha was unfeeling, for which there was no evidence. In fact, it was explained, the Buddhist scriptures depict the Buddha as very much motivated by his compassionate love for others. Furthermore, how could the Buddha not love when his teachings put such great emphasis on its importance?

The controversy hinges in part on how we understand the Indian word raga. It is often translated as “passion”, which has some of the same problems in English as raga does in Pali, the ancient Buddhist language. If passion is understood to include any strongly motivating emotions, then being free of passion suggests an emotionally subdued or neutral person, incapable of love. If passion refers instead to such drives as the lust for sex, power and money, then the person without passion is someone liberated from compulsive cravings and the suffering these bring. Rather than being without emotion, such a person is simply free from emotions rooted in craving.

What then is the emotional life of someone who has no compulsive drives or reactivity? Is their life thereby diminished or enhanced?

One of the Buddha’s most useful teachings is to point to a range of healthy emotions that can arise independent of any craving, aversion or egotism. He emphasized that meditation can help bring about forms of joy and happiness, free of any attachment, that are useful for spiritual growth. In addition, the Buddha encouraged the cultivation of delight, enthusiasm, contentment, tranquility, peace, ardency, faith, empathy for others and most significantly, various forms of love. All these are understood as promoting both spiritual maturity and the capacity to live happily in the present. They also are the emotions that support a positive and engaged attitude toward one’s life and community.

These helpful emotions are much more likely to surface when the mind is not preoccupied with emotions rooted in craving and aversion, emotions that all too often distort our perception of the world. I believe most Buddhists understand that their lives are enhanced as their attachments diminish.

Among all the helpful emotions developed on the Buddhist path, love is extremely important. It ensures that a person’s spiritual life is rooted in healthy relationships with other people and with other forms of life. It also helps create optimal inner conditions for the heart to relax into the peace of Nirvana, the ultimate goal of the Buddha’s teachings.

Contrary to the popular idea of “falling in love” as a mysterious process outside our control, the Buddha emphasized cultivating our capacity for love. Through spiritual practice, love can become a frequent part of our emotional life. By learning to recognize the wellsprings of love within us, we can call upon love in the appropriate circumstances. With cultivation, love becomes a strength. It bolsters both self-confidence and self-reliance.

It is often said that the English word “love” has been overused, cheapened, commercialized, sentimentalized, and rendered meaningless. It helps to recognize that this English word is used to cover a range of different emotions that in other cultures and languages are given different names. For example, Christian teachings have sometimes used the Greek words eros, phillia, and agape to distinguish among sexual or romantic love, the love of friendship, and the compassionate, selfless love directed equally toward all people.

The Buddhist tradition encourages people to develop four different forms of love, called the four Brahmaviharas: loving-kindness (metta), compassion (karuna), sympathetic joy (mudita), and, finally, an emotion that we don’t generally equate with love, equanimity (upekkha). These are all forms of love because they all include a warm, tender, sympathetic attitude of the heart toward oneself or others.

Buddhism teaches that a variety of attitudes may be confused as love. One is sensual desire. Another is affection that is entangled with craving and the need for reciprocity. The Buddha never encouraged the cultivation of such affection; in fact, he often considered it a hindrance to spiritual maturity.

However, if we abandon such affections too quickly, we may overlook situations when affection consists of a combination of craving and one of the four helpful forms of love. One of the joys of spiritual practice is learning to distinguish unhelpful grasping and neediness from an underlying love that needs nothing beyond itself. What should be abandoned is craving, not love. When letting go of craving is too difficult, then a person may practice developing one of the four forms of love to the point that any need to be loved naturally loses its power in the glow of love flowing from us.

The Buddha and the enlightened men and women who followed him are often depicted as motivated by love, but never as in need of being loved. Perhaps we have an innate impulse to love, while being loved is not required in order to be happy and free. Spiritual practice helps free this impulse to love so that it can become a motivating strength in our lives.
Source: http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/books-articles/articles/the-buddha-and-love/

[dsiluvu]

Children, as an object of our consciousness, contribute to the quick path in many many ways. Because of them, we can develop various types of love, compassion, exchanging self with others, bodhichitta. We are able to train deeply in patience, in generosity, in skillful means, in moral discipline, in effort, and so forth. We are reminded of our own samsara, so we can enhance renunciation. We are reminded of impermanence, so our grasping at permanence and this life reduces. The fact is, to become a Buddha, we have to gain control of our mind and perfect our good qualities, and it is in dependence upon objects of consciousness that we are able to train. How was Atisha's angry and abusive cook contributing to Atisha's quick path? Atisha said 'I need him, because I am able to complete the perfection of patience through his kindness.'


If we practice in this way throughout the day and night, regardless of what we are doing, who we are with, or where we are at, we will progress quickly. If we engage in virtue and training the mind between formal meditation sessions, when we sit down to concentrate in formal meditation, it will be powerful because we have been engaged in preliminaries all day. For such a practitioner, making strong distinctions between what is spiritual practice and what is not, and between the meditation session and meditation break is foolish. For them, children enhance every aspect of their training in Lamrim, Lojong, and Vajrayana Mahamudra. An entire book could be written about this relationship between children and the quick path.

Every moment is an opportunity in every situation is an opportunity for powerful spiritual progress. As long as we think otherwise; as long as we think some things are not of spiritual benefit, we will be slowed down by our own useless imputation of reality. The choice is ours.

If everything is viewed as the Guru, we receive the blessings of the Guru. If everything is viewed as the Guru teaching us the path of abandonment and practice, giving us the opportunity to generate the path in our own consciousness, then everything we experience will become the quick path of realization. That is a fact. Everything we experience is the kindness of the Guru!

If the lineage Gurus are any indication of what happens by holding such a view, then we can be sure if we do the same, we will achieve the same results. The law of karma is infallible.

I think what I am referring to is as as the "romantic love" situation... which is that if you do not have children... then there is not a required "need" to acquire it to help you in your "spiritual progress". In fact most of the time in Buddhism, this is discouraged.

No doubt, it is just common sense, if you already have children, then you must take full responsibility to nurture them well and give them Dharma from a very young age. How fortunate for the child to be born in a Dharma family and every thing you have said above would be ideal if applied and ought to be applied.

I am talking about people who DO NOT have kids but think the only means to make their lives meaningful is to get married, have a relationship and HAVE KIDS! Now that is a view I think is totally wrong. And I think this is in context with what BIG UNCLE was trying to say. Again to focus ones entire efforts and energy in looking for a relationship and having kids/family... is pretty much a self-cherishing issue that enforces one's cyclic existent in samsara. That whole beautiful life concept of happiness we sell on the big screen, the tv, on cereal boxes etc...
HAPPINESS = MONEY/ STATUS/NICE THINGS/HOUSE/LOVE LIFE/KIDS/FAMILY - a concept I use to sell in the world of advertising. 

If one is a Buddhist and DON't have any kids.... I think it's okay and some what wise to probably not have kids... what do you need them for really is the question??? For your own selfish need to be loved? What is the real motivation for having kids? I do not think I would have a kid or most people would make a conscious decision to have a kid so that they can "improve their spiritual practice"? Okay even saying that sound pretty selfish and off Lol!

But of course if you already got kids... then by all means make sure you do your ultimate best in caring for them without attachments and nurture them their beautiful Dharma path and I would absolutely AGREE with you point of view above

[psylotripitaka]

Dsiluvu, all your feedback very well said. Thank u for taking time to share so much wisdom.

I will share that I made a conscious decision several years back to have a child, and my reason was as follows: to attain full enlightenment, one must enter the path of highest yoga tantra and have the six elements. It is said that there are Bodhisattvas in pure lands that do not have the opportunity to practice tantra, so they pray to be reborn in a body with the 6 elements so they can complete their training. During my sadhana I made many special prayers and spoke of my gift to these Bodhisattvas knowing they have ear clairvoyance. I invited them offering them a perfect opportunity to complete their path.

Now, I know it's quite a gamble and maybe my son won't have any interest in Dharma, but my intention was sincere and great benefit has resulted either way.

[psylotripitaka]

If we gain definite experience of regarding all living beings as our mother, our romantic feelings for people will disappear. Having gained some experience of this conviction that everyone is in fact your kind mother, if you then go on to think of your mother of this life, imagine having romantic feelings for her, lusting for sexual experiences with her. Unthinkable? Exactly my point.

Tonight I was reminded of a real life story. Short version - some young guy is having this super hot steamy sexual relationship with an older woman. After several months...(you know where this is headed don't you?)...they get to chatting about their lives. She explains she had a son she gave up for adoption and shows him a baby photo. He's shocked to be looking at his own baby picture. She asks his birthday, and he was adopted, and instantly their romantic relationship ceased.

This whole subject is quite interesting and we can go into details about how to still have a relationship once we have a realization as explained above, and about what this relationship can develop into regarding the final stages of our training, but this is not the place for such discussion.

We need to start by realizing our partner is really our mother. With that conviction we will be able to generate bodhichitta and make real progress towards permanent fulfillment.

I know, hard to swallow, but that's how it is. Dharma is the solution we're seeking.