Shugden cannot be applied to Gelug School or any School

[Big Uncle]

The lama who arose as Dorje Shugden was a Gelugpa lama of the highest calibre and enligthened, who was the recognised incarnation of Panchen Sonam Dragpa, Buton Rinpoche, Birwapa and Duldzin who was at the same level in terms of attainments as Je Tsongkhapa himself.

The lamas who are now practicing Dorje Shugden are coming from the lineage of Je Tsongkhapa. Gelug lamas are famous for their debates and analytical thinking, and if Dorje Shugden is indeed harmful the practised would have never been adopted by the Gelug tradition at all. I am sure Dorje Shugden as a protector has been more than once debated at the monk's debate courtyard. And they can find no fault in the protector.

We do not practice for it to be controversial, we practice it because we have faith in our gurus and that this practice will lead us towards enlightenment, is beneficial  and is proven to be effective. The 14th Dalai Lama made the right choice to trust Trijang Rinpoche (who requested for Dorje Shudgen oracle to take trance) to leave   Tibet, if the Dalai Lama had trusted Nechung which is equally controversial, we would not have the Dalai lama anymore.

Dorje Shugden is clairvoyant surely he could see the Dalai Lama would create a ban for Dorje SHugden. If Dorje Shugden were not working hand in hand with the Dalai Lama, then Dorje Shugden as a negative spirit would have advised the Dalai Lama to stay. The Dalai Lama would not have lived to such a ripe age like now.  Dorje Shugden prolongs the Dalai lama's life.

What you have explained is very true. Dorje Shugden does come from a long line of incarnate Lamas that are not just highly attained but have also manifested many signs of their enlightenment. They are definitely not an ordinary incarnation line. Panchen Sonam Drakpa's 11 volumes of writings are being used as textbooks to be debated upon in Geshe examinations. He is able to write so prolifically on the finer aspects of Dharma because he himself has achieved full enlightenment.

I am sure he would have as he is an incarnation of Manjushri. There are so many examples throughout his many lifetimes of manifesting his awakened state. He knowledge and practice was considered equal to Lama Tsongkhapa during his previous life and was thus given the title Dulwa Zinpa or Duldzin, Holder of the Vinaya. Even when we look at his present state as a Dharma Protector, he accorded a higher level of a Lama when he takes trance as the peaceful Duldzin. No Dharma Protector is adorned with monk robes and given a Pandit's hat during trance. His advice in this form is littered with scholarly quotes from the scriptures and he is capable of giving discourses, transmission and even initiation. However, he would decline in favor of the scholars of the monastery.

What I have mentioned about Dorje Shugden is just the tip of the iceberg of Dorje Shugden's amazing deeds and qualities that actually makes him more than an ordinary Protector. The truth is his qualities far surpasses who he is. Therefore, we are fortunate that such a sublime Protector has arisen to safeguard Lama Tsongkhapa's special teachings. Instead of finding ways to eliminate him, we should strive to find more reasons to edify and promote him.

[beggar]

If we want to talk about Shugden not being applicable or a legitimate, correct practice for the Gelug school, we open the door to a lot of other questions. Dorje Shugden's practice was so central to the Gelug school and to the millions of practitioners who have arisen from just the three great monasteries of Gaden, Sera and Drepung alone. To state that Dorje Shugden practice is wrong and relegate it to mere spirit worship has very serious consequences for the whole corpus of teachings, the lineage and the basis of all vows of every Gelugpa monk and practitioner.

Saying that Dorje Shugden is a spirit, and something that is not applicable to the Gelug school, is to say that every Gelugpa practitioner who has prayed to Shugden has broken their refuge vows, which is the basis of everything else that they are practising. This includes the great teachers such as Trijang Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche, Ling Rinpoche and even the Dalai Lama, who has also practiced Dorje Shugden in his earlier years.

So if these lamas have all broken their refuge vows and samaya, then the basis of all their teachings is "unclean" and whatever they are passing down to their students is not pure. Almost every Gelug practitioner and monastery in the world today might trace their lineage to either one of the lamas named above - so that would mean none of them have really received any pure teachings since the basis of those teachings were broken vows and samaya! So the majority of the Gelug school today is invalid?

There's a very complete article that expounds this train of thought here. It presents astounding logic - a must read for anyone wanting to better understand the illogical basis of the Dorje Shugden ban. I highly recommend it, before simply throwing statements about the Shugden practice being 'incorrect' or unapplicable - the converse has far more damaging consequences.

Has the Gelug Lineage Lost its Effectiveness?
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/has-the-gelug-lineage-lost-its-effectiveness/

[psylotripitaka]

Tenzin Gyatso, it is important to get an objective perspective on the controversy, looking at it from the outside without an emotionally charged interest in either party. Such perspective sees that actions speak for themselves. I stepped back and had a good look, and saw how easy it is for people to get so emotionally fired up they miss he point completely.

Though there are many facets to the controversy, the fact of the matter is, the main and most important thing to acknowledge is it boils down to very well-documented religious and human rights abuses. It is so strange to me how a person can be so obsessed with a popular personality that they refuse to see how what is actually going on is totally inappropriate, destructive, and disrespectful. When we look at the situation objectively, here is what you typically see:

One group of people(Group A) - through coercion, death threats, economic threats, shrine and home destruction, ostracism and so forth - forcing another group of people(Group B) to stop their religious practices and give up their human rights.

Group B peacefully communicates the damage being done and requests the forced ban to be lifted; they peacefully and repeatedly request open dialogue and clarification; the peacefully demonstrate to encourage Group A to stop their abusive and destructive campaign; they provide excessive valid logical reasons for their religious views and so forth.

Group A disregards all these things, and quite simply engages in actions that clearly contradict the BuddhaDharma; contradict basic human and religious rights; contradict common sense.

If some popular teacher came along and told Christians they had to stop believing in Christ and gave all sorts of ridiculous superstitious reasons why they have to do this and constantly contradicted themselves in the process, then forced the ban through various illegal and harmful actions, only someone who was not in their right mind would think this is ok. I mean Jeezus, this isn't rocket science people.

I can understand why some people (out of fear of the extensive negative repercussions of not doing so) would tow the party line and go along with the ban. However, to those free thinkers who are not necessarily impacted directly by the negative consequences to ones life of not abandoning their religious right, people all over the world with objective common sense are forced to ask the question - wtf is wrong with these people?

So I'm asking you directly Tenzin Gyatso, in the light of so much evidence and sincere objective contemplation of the situation at hand, how is it possible for a "Buddhist" to look at this situation and be so intensely supportive of actions that completely contradict the Dharma and cause intense harm to living beings?

I ask, because when I give a non-biased explanation of the circumstances to non-Buddhist friends of mine, its a no-brainer for them. So do please explain to all of us here reading your posts, as a Buddhist who strongly supports all the intense non-virtue arisen from this ban, how have you come to have complete disregard for empirical evidence of human and religious rights abuse? How have you come to the conclusion that this shit is ok for Buddhists to do? Seriously, all the deity/demon stuff and who's who aside(totally irrelevant really), the reality of abuse laid bare, how can anyone in their right mind think this shit is ok?

The controversy really isn't about Dorje Shugden after all, it's about Freedom vs. a Destruction of Freedom that has destroyed the reputation of Buddhadharma and the faith and lives of many.

Seriously Tenzin Gyatso, why is it so hard for Buddhists to be kind? I know, it sounds fucking crazy right!

It doesn't have to be like this.

With Much Sincere Love,
psylotripitaka

[Dondrup Shugden]

The points put forward by Tenzin Gyatso seem to make sense as he caused confusion by relating Lamas of very different eras.

However, it is so illogical for him to even mention the points he put through that Shugdenpas chose to believe in Trijang Rinpoche instead of Tsongkapa.

He seem to forget that Dorje Shugden arose to protect the doctrine of Tsongkapa and the Guru of Pabongka Rinpoche, Tagpu Rinpoche received the scriptures of Dorje Shugden directly from Tsongkapa in Tushita and he then passed to Pabongkapa Rinpoche and to Trijang Rinpoche.

Propitiating Dorje Shugden is to follow the doctrine of Je Tsongkapa. 

Very logical points are put through, great knowledge when we need to debate on logic with anti-Shugdenpas.