Author Topic: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama  (Read 7056 times)

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« on: February 13, 2013, 04:57:54 PM »
No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama? And i thought the Swiss were neutral. I guess the crux is that even Switzerland does not recognise the CTA, so even if an official request was submitted, it has no basis.

I wonder if the Dalai Lama would get a warmer welcome in Rabten Choeling? After all, in 1964 Geshe Rabten was chosen to be the philosophical assistant of the H.H. Dalai Lama, and his task then was to assist His Holiness when taking teachings from his two tutors, HH Trijang Rinpoche and HH Ling Rinpoche, as well as to engage in debate with His Holiness on philosophical subjects. Geshe Rabten was then sent to the West to teach and was the first Tibetan Master to teach the complete Buddhadharma to the West.

Geshe Rabten founded the center for higher Tibetan studies, Rabten Choeling at the lake of Geneva (originally Tharpa Choeling), the Tibetan center in Hamburg, Tashi Rabten at the Letzehof, Puntsog Rabten in Munich and Gephel Ling in Milan.

And now, Geshe Rabten has reincarnated back as Ven Rabgya Rinpoche and from these five centers in Europe, the Dharma and Dorje Shugden's practice will grow and spread. And who was the catalyst who set all this up? None other than HH the Dalai Lama! Interesting isn't it.



Tuesday, 12 February, 2013, 09:15
No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnews/no-official-swiss-welcome-for-dalai-lama.shtml?34561

The Federal Council will not receive the Dalai Lama during his visit to Switzerland in April.

A spokesperson for the Federal Foreign Office said Switzerland did not recognize the Tibetan government in exile, and added there had been no official request.

The Swiss-Tibetan Friendship Society says it is disappointed that its own request was rejected.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

vajratruth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 706
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2013, 06:07:07 PM »
This is an interesting development and I can understand why the State will not officially host the Dalai Lama's visit. Switzerland is a signatory to virtually all the international human rights instruments and it is also the headquarters for most of the human rights bodies around the world. As one of the oldest democracies that champions human rights and civil liberties, it would be awkward if the Swiss were to officially welcome the Dalai Lama whose government is responsible for one of the most atrocious persecutions of people based on their religion, in modern day history.

Last year Swiss Federal Councillor Didier Burhhalter, head of the Federal Department of Foreign Affairs, told the parliament that the Swiss Federal Council is “concerned about the situation in Tibetan regions in China, notably about the increasing numbers of persons who are self-immolating.” It is not only China that the Swiss should watch but also the Dalai Lama's own administration, the CTA. Well, seeing that the Swiss are having Tibet on their mind, it may be also a good time for them to ponder on the following points which was raised in a 2008 post.

Do the Swiss Government know:

* that the Nobel Peace Prize winner and supposed champion of human rights is busy at work removing the religious rights and freedoms of one section of his own Tibetan people and persecuting all those who are trying to stand up for these rights;

* and that he is using all his political power to destroy a well-loved and centuries-old religious tradition, causing huge confusion and pain among thousands of Tibetans;

* and that this religious tradition he is trying to destroy is the one taught to him by his own Spiritual Guide, His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche (1901-1981), the Junior Tutor of the Dalai Lama;

* and that in a world where the Western and American ideal is the separation of politics and religion to prevent such abuses of power, the Dalai Lama is the very embodiment of the union of politics and religion;

* and that his actions are illegal and unlawful, directly contravening the Declaration of Human Rights, the Indian Constitution, and even the Tibetan government-in-exile's own constitution;

* and all this makes the Dalai Lama's actions contradictory and hypocrital - if you go around preaching non-violence and religious tolerance, it is hypocritical to then actively suppress religious freedom to advance your own political agenda of keeping control of the Tibetans:

...From the AP reports, Seattle , April 14, 2008 : Inside the ( University of Washington ) arena, the Dalai Lama received an honorary degree and spoke of the importance of employing dialogue and mutual respect to solve problems. "You will make this century of peace," the Dalai Lama told students. "Today's world (is) heavily interdependent. Destruction of your neighbor or enemy is destruction of yourself."

* and when you say "I now practice all Tibetan religious traditions and think you should too", maybe what you really mean is "I want to control all Tibetan religious traditions";

* and that the Dalai Lama's "spiritual" reasons for repressing the practice of Wisdom Buddha Dorje Shugden comes across as both superstitious and incompatible with basic Buddhist teachings:

For example, the Dalai Lama says that Wisdom Buddha Dorje Shugden is a spirit who causes harm to his own life and the cause of a free Tibet . However, every Buddhist knows that if you go for refuge to Buddha, Dharma and Sangha, you are protected from harm from spirits. So how can such a spirit harm a supposed Buddha? How can such a spirit affect the cause of a free Tibet ? It makes no sense, but of course these reasons are designed to produce a powerful emotional response in the intensely nationalistic, devout and loyal exiled Tibetans.

* and that, because of the Dalai Lama's calculated and uncompassionate political campaign of religious oppression, many Tibetans in India are now outcasts within the exiled;

* and that even Western followers of the Dalai Lama are blindly repeating his claims that those who are following this tradition are spirit-worshippers and a sectarian cult, despite all evidence to the contrary (in this way deliberately setting out to destroy the reputation of Western Dorje Shugden practitioners and prevent people attending their Centers);

* and that no matter how many peaceful representations, letters and petitions have been sent to him over the last ten years begging him to reconsider, he has ignored every single one and refused to engage in any dialogue;

* and that just because the Dalai Lama is a media darling of the West does not mean that he is infallible and above reproach, and that just because he is a supposed God King and Nobel Peace Prize winner does not make him above the law or immune to grave mistakes;


« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 08:21:09 PM by vajratruth »

Lineageholder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2013, 07:06:06 PM »
Why would the Dalai Lama receive an official welcome?  He has given up being a political leader and so he wouldn't be acknowledged by the government.

Does Thich Nhat Hahn receive an official welcome from a country when he visits to give a course or lead a retreat?  Of course not!  Both TNH and the Dalai Lama are equally Spiritual Teachers, so they should be accorded the same treatment.

beggar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2013, 08:19:20 PM »
More interesting would be to see if the CTA get upset about this, as they usually are when governments refuse to meet with them or the Dalai Lama - not that they have any right to be upset about this. No government in the world owes them anything, and apart from the the cursory nod in their direction for the sake of human rights, there is really nothing that any other government would sign their country's name against. Upsetting China just isn't worth the human right's brownie point.

Lineageholder has a good point - why SHOULD they meet the Dalai Lama when he doesn't even hold any official government post? What would the purpose be of meeting any of these country's leaders any more?

And really, in any case, even if the Dalai Lama is a nobel peace prize winner and one of the world's most famous spiritual leaders, would these leaders want to meet with him if they knew just how much discrimination was happening against the Tibetans themselves solely because of a decree issued by the Dalai Lama? If other international bodies want to talk about human rights, let's first look at what's happening within the Tibetan community itself and then see if we still want to endorse this kind of discrimination against one's own people?

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2013, 08:27:46 PM »
Even if the Dalai Lama was a political leader, the Swiss does not acknowledge the CTA as an exiled government hence there would be no official welcome. The funny thing is that most people don't even know that the Dalai Lama has stepped down as the political head, if they even knew he was the political head to start with. The Dalai Lama has managed to successfully position himself as a world leader due to various serendipitous factors in his favor... the Nobel Peace Prize for example was a purely political move by the international arena who wanted to challenge China.

Anyway, as a completely non-political person, i would just like to focus on HH Dalai Lama as a spiritual leader, and was just tickled by the link to Switzerland and Geshe Rabten.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

DharmaDefender

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 988
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2013, 10:53:03 AM »
No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama? And i thought the Swiss were neutral. I guess the crux is that even Switzerland does not recognise the CTA, so even if an official request was submitted, it has no basis.

I wonder if the Dalai Lama would get a warmer welcome in Rabten Choeling? After all, in 1964 Geshe Rabten was chosen to be the philosophical assistant of the H.H. Dalai Lama, and his task then was to assist His Holiness when taking teachings from his two tutors, HH Trijang Rinpoche and HH Ling Rinpoche, as well as to engage in debate with His Holiness on philosophical subjects. Geshe Rabten was then sent to the West to teach and was the first Tibetan Master to teach the complete Buddhadharma to the West.

Geshe Rabten founded the center for higher Tibetan studies, Rabten Choeling at the lake of Geneva (originally Tharpa Choeling), the Tibetan center in Hamburg, Tashi Rabten at the Letzehof, Puntsog Rabten in Munich and Gephel Ling in Milan.

And now, Geshe Rabten has reincarnated back as Ven Rabgya Rinpoche and from these five centers in Europe, the Dharma and Dorje Shugden's practice will grow and spread. And who was the catalyst who set all this up? None other than HH the Dalai Lama! Interesting isn't it.



Tuesday, 12 February, 2013, 09:15
No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnews/no-official-swiss-welcome-for-dalai-lama.shtml?34561

The Federal Council will not receive the Dalai Lama during his visit to Switzerland in April.

A spokesperson for the Federal Foreign Office said Switzerland did not recognize the Tibetan government in exile, and added there had been no official request.

The Swiss-Tibetan Friendship Society says it is disappointed that its own request was rejected.


Actually, in not receiving the Dalai Lama, the Swiss are staying as close to their neutral stance as they can in this issue. To receive the Dalai Lama would be seen by China as an act of support for the Tibetan government (not neutral), and to snub the Dalai Lama would be seen by Tibetans as contradictory to the support they give to Tibetan refugees in Switzerland (not neutral).

Theres no way Switzerland can win with this one, so its just best for them to leave their noses out of the issue, continue to provide safe haven for deserving refugees on the basis of human rights, and continue to trade with China for the benefit of their own people. I wish the Tibetans would stop swanning around the world, acting like they deserve respect and support from everyone just because their so hard up.

You know what WB? I do think hed get a warmer reception in Rabten Choeling. No offence but the only people whove ever made an issue about Dorje Shugden are the people who follow the Dalai Lama. We ourselves have never had a problem with His Holiness and his followers; its they who have a problem with us.

honeydakini

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 401
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2013, 12:05:42 PM »
I'm very tickled by the thought of the Dalai Lama making a detour from visiting Swiss leaders to visit Rabten Choeling instead. I do love that idea! And I do agree with what DharmaDefender has said about him probably receiving a warm welcome there because Dorje Shugden practitioners, at the end of everything, really don't wish any ill will on the Dalai Lama.

The great Dorje Shugden lamas have never said they wish anything bad upon the Dalai Lama or his supporters, no matter how much pain they have had to endure by the ban and words of the Dalai Lama. Even the protests held against the Dalai Lama across Europe and America were never meant to create harm and were not supposed to express any hatred or harmful feelings (I don't really agree with some of the things that were said during the protests, but I do believe that the intentions of everyone out there was not malicious and that they do still love the Dalai Lama in their own way).

I think this best reflects the nature of Dorje Shugden. His practitioners and the most influential teachers in the world who are promoting his practice have nothing bad to say, nor wish to retaliate in any way. They say nothing bad and wish absolutely no harm on the Dalai Lama. If Dorje Shugden really was such a bad and harmful spirit that was set on destroying the life of the Dalai Lama, then why are his devotees acting in such opposite, loving ways? The fact that the lamas remain patient, loving and quiet on the subject and just plough on ahead with their practices and teachings, could only reflect the truly loving, compassionate and wise nature of the Buddhas they pray to, such as Shugden. 

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 04:40:46 AM »
So what business does Dalai Lama have in Switzerland? Does he have a huge center there where he can go and bless the people? As far as I know, there is a huge Dharma center there called Rabten Choling which is pro Dorje Shugden, so is the Dalai Lama going there to give a Kalachakra initiation? hehehehe that would be cute. Maybe the Dalai Lama has realized that criticisms against Dorje Shugden wont work anymore and he stopped. As for the Swiss govt not recognizing CTA DAMM RIGHT!! Governments are supposed to develop their country or state or whatever they have and protect their people as well as their rights and freedom and safety, but CTA has failed. They're not a government and everyone should follow the Swiss's example.

yontenjamyang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
    • Email
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2013, 04:57:25 AM »
Whether the Dalai Lama has step down or not it is still a slap in the face. The HHDL is well known as a nobel peace prize winner, the world peace leader in the mindset of the world and elder statesman similar to ex-presidents like Bill Clinton and Nelson Mandela. As such, he should be given at least a none official reception. I feel the Swiss government are pretty unhappy about the CTA's discriminations within the Tibetan Buddhism especially with regard to Dorje Shugden practitioners. Perhaps they seek the opinions of Buddhists in Switzerland about this.   

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 05:11:47 AM »
And oh, I forgot to add in my earlier post...

If the Swiss fail to recognize CTA and the Dalai Lama, could it be these two?

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=2619.0

The Swiss are very careful (they make swiss knifes and watches, after all, and chocolate and cheese) and they are unbiased as far as I know and so, maybe perhaps this kind of influence their action/indifference towards the Dalai Lama? After all, not everyone has their heads wrapped in the whole Dalai Lama aura.

Or could it be this experience that made them untrusting to the Dalai Lama?

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=502.0

I doubt anyone would actually have a good impression of him after that article. They would certainly think twice before they trust his words or show him respect.


honeydakini

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 401
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2013, 08:53:42 AM »
oh dear, so I think perhaps our little daydreams about the Dalai Lama turning up at Rabten Choeling will have to be put on hold for awhile.

I just read the second link that Ensapa posted about the Dalai Lama's earlier visit to Switzerland back in 2009, where everyone was welcome to attend... except DS practitioners, which of course immediately excluded all of Gonsar Rinpoche and his students.

Isn't that just shocking, that anyone in the world is allowed to meet with the Dalai Lama - even satanists, aetheists, people of all religions. But Dorje Shugden people are not allowed. Isn't that just the greatest irony: that everyone from every religion can visit the Dalai Lama but not fellow Buddhists?

This is very strange and defies all logic or any real practice of freedom of religion. Because of all this ostracism and discrimination, could it be perhaps that some strange collective karma is coming back to the Tibetans, that prominent leaders or prominent countries are now refusing to meet the Dalai Lama? If you cut off sincere people from seeing you, it would seem logical that karmically, other people that YOU would want to meet would also reject your request?

Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2013, 01:48:34 PM »
oh dear, so I think perhaps our little daydreams about the Dalai Lama turning up at Rabten Choeling will have to be put on hold for awhile.

I just read the second link that Ensapa posted about the Dalai Lama's earlier visit to Switzerland back in 2009, where everyone was welcome to attend... except DS practitioners, which of course immediately excluded all of Gonsar Rinpoche and his students.

Isn't that just shocking, that anyone in the world is allowed to meet with the Dalai Lama - even satanists, aetheists, people of all religions. But Dorje Shugden people are not allowed. Isn't that just the greatest irony: that everyone from every religion can visit the Dalai Lama but not fellow Buddhists?

This is very strange and defies all logic or any real practice of freedom of religion. Because of all this ostracism and discrimination, could it be perhaps that some strange collective karma is coming back to the Tibetans, that prominent leaders or prominent countries are now refusing to meet the Dalai Lama? If you cut off sincere people from seeing you, it would seem logical that karmically, other people that YOU would want to meet would also reject your request?

There is basically no political or religious reasons for these countries to receive the Dalai Lama as a religious or political leader in official capacity because for one, the Dalai Lama has resigned from being the political head of Tibet and the nations that are receiving the Dalai Lama are not Buddhist countries, so why is it that these countries invite them? Also, there are so little news of big nations inviting the Dalai Lama and making a huge and official thing about it. The tables have turned. If back then the Dalai Lama went to Switzerland and did not allow the people from Rabten Choling to participate, this time he wont get an official welcome and he's treated like any other. Perhaps it is a sign that his influence is waning and Dorje Shugden will fill in the gap.

brian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
    • Email
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2013, 11:02:04 AM »
Whether that is for political or not, the Dalai Lama already resigned as the political figure head but he is still a 'celebrity' for he is also a Nobel Peace Winner 1989. Whatever the reason that Swiss government have that they did not receive the Dalai Lama is still not well received. Probably of because of the actions CTA have done on the Dorje Shugden practitioners (which is pure discrimination and violence of human rights), that is why the Swiss government did not show some form of respect to receive the Dalai Lama. Well at least unofficially, the Swiss government should receive the Dalai Lama which i felt is the least they have to do.


DharmaSpace

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1470
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2013, 01:00:16 PM »
As more news about ban and human rights violation against Dorje Shugden pervades the world, more people and the Swiss would have been made aware of this. And the Dalai Lama  and CTA happens to be at the core of this issue.

A buddhist nation or government with its spiritual leader  practicing human right violation like enforcing the Dorje Shugden is directly in OPPOSITION to compassion and the spirit of Buddhism. Wy would the Swiss risk its reputation to support something of that nature. If the CTA or the Dalai Lama is not smeared by this controversy, perhaps the Swiss people like most Western Nations who champions weak and oppressed may give the Dalai Lama the time and the day.

But to risk trade relations with China for a party that who doe snot have a squeaky clean reputation makes no sense whatsoever.

 


Ensapa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
    • Email
Re: No official Swiss welcome for Dalai Lama
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2013, 04:51:15 AM »
Whether that is for political or not, the Dalai Lama already resigned as the political figure head but he is still a 'celebrity' for he is also a Nobel Peace Winner 1989. Whatever the reason that Swiss government have that they did not receive the Dalai Lama is still not well received. Probably of because of the actions CTA have done on the Dorje Shugden practitioners (which is pure discrimination and violence of human rights), that is why the Swiss government did not show some form of respect to receive the Dalai Lama. Well at least unofficially, the Swiss government should receive the Dalai Lama which i felt is the least they have to do.

The Dalia Lama is still the mascot for the Tibetan people as well as the face of Tibetan Buddhism as we know today. That is his significance even though he has resigned from his political duties as the political head of the CTA, nothing can make him drop this iconic status as the representative of Tibetan Buddhism and the Tibetans. that will not go away forever and HHDL will always be tied to the Tibetans. But for countries to downplay him, and to treat him differently with less pomp and pageantry also shows that the Tibet issue is getting old and many nations are not interested in something that will not bear results.