Kalachakra by Panchen Lama's guru, a direct counter to Dalai Lama?

[vajratruth]

This is good news to my ears. The Kalachakra Initiation is an important event that is supposed to develop the karmic connection between the initiate and a future world of Buddhism to be established by the Kings of Shambala. The Kalachakra Tantra comprises the innermost essence of the 84,000 categories of the teachings of The Buddha and is therefore considered very profound in one's training.

Unfortunately Kalachakra Initiations given by the Dalai Lama are not available to Dorje Shugden practitioners. Although the organizers claim to welcome attendees from all spiritual traditions but in reality they turn away Dorje Shugden practitioners. So the anti-Shugden people in the Dalai Lama's camp are even using a blessed event such as the Kalachakra Initiations to divide Buddhist practitioners.

Dalai Lama speaks about Dorje Shugden at Kalachakra, Washington DC (July 11, 2011)

Therefore it is good to have this Kalachakra event that is not tainted by discriminations based on beliefs. And even more meaningful is a Kalachakra initiation performed by not only a senior monk, but also the teacher of the Panchen Lama. As already mentioned in this post, the Kalachakra practice was originally taught by the Panchen Lamas, having being started by the first Panchen Lama, Khedrub Je himself.

[Ensapa]

The present day Kalachakra lineage actually originates from Taranatha, the founder of the Jonang tradition. he is one of the Lamas that are banned from reincarnating (in Tibet, at least) by the CTA and this ban has not lifted yet, and meanwhile, he reincarnated in Mongolia, as the line of the Jetsundampa Hutuks. I find it to be quite hypocritical for the Dalai Lama to spread the tradition of Kalachakra that stemmed out from Taranatha on one hand and still keep his incarnation banned from Tibet/Dharamsala on the other hand, i mean, how would the lineage prayers turn out to be? The Jonang School has since been unbanned, but not their leader...

[Big Uncle]

The present day Kalachakra lineage actually originates from Taranatha, the founder of the Jonang tradition. he is one of the Lamas that are banned from reincarnating (in Tibet, at least) by the CTA and this ban has not lifted yet, and meanwhile, he reincarnated in Mongolia, as the line of the Jetsundampa Hutuks. I find it to be quite hypocritical for the Dalai Lama to spread the tradition of Kalachakra that stemmed out from Taranatha on one hand and still keep his incarnation banned from Tibet/Dharamsala on the other hand, i mean, how would the lineage prayers turn out to be? The Jonang School has since been unbanned, but not their leader...

That's true but I am sure the original ban on Taranatha's incarnation lineage was purely a political move. This is really in line with the Great Fifth Dalai Lama's political move to close down and assimilate the Jonang School in the first place. It was a hostile takeover that have very strong political overtones that was needed to secure the Gelug School during a time when the political climate was particularly hostile due to various political affiliations of various schools.

[Ensapa]

That's true but I am sure the original ban on Taranatha's incarnation lineage was purely a political move. This is really in line with the Great Fifth Dalai Lama's political move to close down and assimilate the Jonang School in the first place. It was a hostile takeover that have very strong political overtones that was needed to secure the Gelug School during a time when the political climate was particularly hostile due to various political affiliations of various schools.

It may be done for a political reason back then (which is fine, the Dalai Lama has admitted that in his biography by Glenn Mullin) but why is Taranatha still banned by the CTA? I know the Jonang school has now been officially been accepted and recognized (without a formal apology, oh well) but like I have said, it does not make sense now to hold on to a ban on such a high tulku, and not only that, one of the originator of many tantras. By the way, Taranatha wrote a very comprehensive work on Tara's set of tantras called the Golden Rosary and his name has the word Tara in it because he was famous for relying on her as a Yidam. So even certain tantric texts about Tara came from him, and he is still banned from reincarnating back into Tibet now, by the CTA.

[dsiluvu]

This is very interesting, official China newspaper carry news of Panchen Lama's guru giving Kalachakra, are they trying to dissuade the Tibetans from going to the Dalai Lama and coming towards Panchen Lama instead?

Oh wow excellent rejoicing news... it sure sounds like they are dissuading but whether they are trying to dissuade Tibetans from going to the Dalai Lama's initiation or not to me it is not important. What is more important is that many others will to get this tantra and be initiated and be able to do this practice! And what is more important is that they can spread it even to the Shugden practitioners as well as the Chinese!!! Heck why not?!

Look Buddha did not teach Buddhism for only Indians... if not Tibetans would not have gotten the teachings and well, if China did not invade Tibet, people all over the world would not get the teachings either. So this is a rejoicing news simply because Dharma can grow and is growing and continues to grow... many will receive blessing from the lineage lines from the Panchen Lama.

Well the great Panchen Lama Lobsang Chokyi Gyeltsen was the Guru of both great disciples the Great Fifth Dalai Lama and Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. So in this sense people will be receiving the blessing and initiations from HHDL Guru the Panchen Lama and the current Panchen Lama's Guru, Jamyang Gaytso... which is even greater in my opinion. And well we all know the past Panchen Lamas (e.g. the 9th and 10th) practised Dorje Shugden, so does the current Chinese-appointed Panchen Lama, Gyenkyen Norbu... seems like more and more opportunities are arising for Shugden Lamas to spread Dharma to the world.

[Ensapa]

Unfortunately Kalachakra Initiations given by the Dalai Lama are not available to Dorje Shugden practitioners. Although the organizers claim to welcome attendees from all spiritual traditions but in reality they turn away Dorje Shugden practitioners. So the anti-Shugden people in the Dalai Lama's camp are even using a blessed event such as the Kalachakra Initiations to divide Buddhist practitioners.

However, HHDL is not the only one who teaches Kalachakra. The Sakya Trinzin also passes down the Kalachakra initiations. Also, there are other lineages that are intact in China that passes down the Kalachakra and here, the Chinese have highlighted it. Just because there are a lot of Tibetans in Dharamsala, it does not make them the only group of Tibetans in the world. There are still a lot more in Tibet and I am sure that they have all the lineages intact in them, untainted by the Dorje Shugden ban and people can still practice and get attainments from those. It is always nice to know that there is a lineage that still remains untainted by silly bans and things that will still benefit people without discriminations of any sort.

[beggar]

now here's an interesting thought to throw everything into the mix.

If practicing Dorje Shugden is wrong because he is a spirit, that would mean that our refuge vows are broken. This has severe consequences, for it means the basis of all our practices and lineages is compromised and perhaps invalidated. (see here for the full argument: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/has-the-gelug-lineage-lost-its-effectiveness/)

Now then, the Kalachakra initiation that the Dalai Lama has been giving around the world would most likely have been received from Trijang Rinpoche. The Dalai Lama has stated explicitly that his gurus were "wrong" to have practiced Dorje Shugden. This would logically follow that because they were engaged in these wrong practices their whole lives, the other practices they are doing would have been nullified and invalid since there is no correct, valid basis. This would include Kalachakra, surely?

So this follows that the Kalachakra that the Dalai Lama himself received from these "wrong" teachers is also invalid and has no basis.

So what exactly is the Dalai Lama initiating these hundreds of thousands of people into? Is it all just an empty blessing?

[Ensapa]

now here's an interesting thought to throw everything into the mix.

If practicing Dorje Shugden is wrong because he is a spirit, that would mean that our refuge vows are broken. This has severe consequences, for it means the basis of all our practices and lineages is compromised and perhaps invalidated. (see here for the full argument: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/has-the-gelug-lineage-lost-its-effectiveness/)

Now then, the Kalachakra initiation that the Dalai Lama has been giving around the world would most likely have been received from Trijang Rinpoche. The Dalai Lama has stated explicitly that his gurus were "wrong" to have practiced Dorje Shugden. This would logically follow that because they were engaged in these wrong practices their whole lives, the other practices they are doing would have been nullified and invalid since there is no correct, valid basis. This would include Kalachakra, surely?

So this follows that the Kalachakra that the Dalai Lama himself received from these "wrong" teachers is also invalid and has no basis.

So what exactly is the Dalai Lama initiating these hundreds of thousands of people into? Is it all just an empty blessing?

For one, the Kalachakra lineage that the Dalai Lama received came from the Sakyas. And the Sakyas got it from the Jonangs. And the CTA has banned Taranatha and has declared him heretical a few hundred years ago. The logic loop here is, how can you declare the person who first taught it to be heretical and then teach his teachings? It's like practicing Vajrayogini while seeing Naropa as a heretical teacher that is wrong and still expect results. Does not make sense at all. In the case of the Dalai Lama declaring his teachers wrong, it would also mean that whatever he says is wrong because the source is from his teachers, and therefore the ban against Dorje Shugden itself is wrong and without basis.