Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen needed to be Reminded by Nechung?

[Q]

Dear Forum Readers

One of the arguments made by DS proponents are DS's previous incarnations have been an enlightened beings.  So it is impossible for DS to be born as a Gyalpo Spirit through the force of Karma.  To say that, is implying that enlightened beings can degenerate to such as low state, which is impossible.

From what I learned, the characteristics of enlightened beings is they are omnicients and not controled by by the force of karma.

If he was an enlightened being, Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen should be omnicient, can see through the past and future lives of himself and other beings.  So why he needed to be reminded by a spirit like Nechung that he had promised to rise as a unique Dharma Protector through eating the rice blessed by Nechung, the spirit?

 

I believe there are many factors that contribute to this. Personally, I think that it is because of Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen's humility that made Nachung remind him.
I remember reading a story about a mahasiddha, whom was enlightened from birth as he came to the world from a lotus. Although he is enlightened, he searched for a Guru (of which he found) and served his Guru perfectly. After much observation, his Guru then said why is the mahasiddha here as he is already an enlightened being... Upon his Guru's approval that he is enlightened, the mahasiddha then ascended to Tushita in that very body. I believe it is the same in Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen's case.

It could also due to the time and age that Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen was in... 350 years ago is not too long ago, and at that time, many great tulkus and lamas that reincarnate do not concentrate on having 'mystical' powers anymore... because the minds of the people at these time can no longer accept it. Instead of thinking the lama with great power as a great being or Bodhisatvva, they may get sceptical or even worst, try to exploit the lama. So perhaps because of this, Nechung had to 'remind' TDG.

Another way of looking at this is perhaps because of the collective karma of the people at that time prevented TDG to manifest as a Dharma Protector.

Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being, and to say otherwise is total ignorance and reflects one's selectiveness on the Dharma. The very fact that DS manifesting 4 eminations shows his enlightened ability to aid being of the realms. To reject or talk ill of DS is similar to disparaging all the Buddhas, as it is not DS that they're rejecting but the qualities that DS exhibit, which is an enlightened mind.

[Klein]

If he was an enlightened being, Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen should be omnicient, can see through the past and future lives of himself and other beings.  So why he needed to be reminded by a spirit like Nechung that he had promised to rise as a unique Dharma Protector through eating the rice blessed by Nechung, the spirit?

That is very simple and straightforward because Tulku Drakpa was not enlightened. He had a wrong motivation, anger and became a raging evil spirit. As the HHDL said. Also all those who worship him destroy their roots of virtues. Sounds harsh, but what other explanation can there be.

If Dorje Shugden is a "raging evil spirit", then why doesn't HHDL do a fire puja and get rid of him? Isn't that a lot more simple? Why put in so much effort to publicise the ban of the practice and create so much sufferings for the practitioners?

If a mere spirit can threaten the life of HHDL, are you implying that HHDL is not an emanation of Avalokiteshvara? As far as we all know, Enlightened beings cannot be harmed by a spirit. So are you implying that HHDL is a fake? If HHDL is a fake then elite masters such as HHDL's teacher, HH Kyabje Dorje Chang Trijang Rinpoche must be a fake as well. If that's the case then Gaden Monastery is also a fake because they all study from the same lineage. If this is true, then we should report the monks to the police and close down the monasteries so that they do not continue to create more negative karma from deceiving the public.

Please explain, Tenzin Gyatso because if what you say is true then I will initiate a global movement to close down all the fake monasteries and Dharamsala! How dare they deceive the millions of people!

[beggar]

This part of the story shouldn't surprise us actually.

Apart from what has already been said about humility, I believe it is also because for most practitioners, unfortunately, they prefer to hear the words of a "God" than a "man", their Lamas. See, the same question to be asked as to why we should even have oracles throughout history. Why does the Dalai Lama consult Nechung on secular and spiritual matters of the state? If he is Chenrezig, as the Tibetans believe, can Chenrezig not give advice far more accurate and beneficial than an unenlightened Dharma protector?

Surely, this must be for the benefit of the people, who would be more awed and inspired by the sight of higher being taking trance, than by the words of what they limitedly perceive as being a mere mortal. It's as simple (though unfortunate) as that

[Ensapa]

Dear Forum Readers

One of the arguments made by DS proponents are DS's previous incarnations have been an enlightened beings.  So it is impossible for DS to be born as a Gyalpo Spirit through the force of Karma.  To say that, is implying that enlightened beings can degenerate to such as low state, which is impossible.

From what I learned, the characteristics of enlightened beings is they are omnicients and not controled by by the force of karma.

If he was an enlightened being, Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen should be omnicient, can see through the past and future lives of himself and other beings.  So why he needed to be reminded by a spirit like Nechung that he had promised to rise as a unique Dharma Protector through eating the rice blessed by Nechung, the spirit?

 

I have been pondering from another point of view on this: that the people around that time did not have the karma to receive teachings from Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen. It is not that he forgot, but rather that earlier on, he probably still had a connection to the people around him and to his students which is why he delayed his manifesting as a Dharma protector, although he is probably well aware of everything that was about to happen. You see, high lamas like him has complete control over his birth and death, and the only reason for them to remain is that they have students that need their guidance in their spiritual progress and also that these students actually hold their samaya and actually practice the Dharma. As Tibetans often omit embarrassing or unfavorable details from their histories, that fact could have been glossed over by that sentence or that part of the biography, or perhaps, that part of the history was not helpful for us to examine and ponder on. In any case, the factor of samaya could have been a determining factor of why he decided to delay his manifestation as a protector.

The reason why I came to this conclusion was because I discovered this quote:

Kyabje Phabongka was also an emanation of Heruka Chakrasamvara, but degeneration of the times and jealousy of ordinary beings have made it difficult to become aware of his tremendous qualities. There are many biographies of Kyabje Phabongka that make his realized qualities very clear.

So there is a very huge possibility that, if the same logic was applied to Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen, that it was due to the bad karma of the people at that time that prevented him for manifesting as a Dharma protector because so many more people can benefit from that but due to their negative karma, they could not receive the help and existence of such a powerful Dharma protector. Or it could be the other way that they no longer have the karma for Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen to appear as a Lama anymore, so he appeared as a Dharma protector. Hmmm.

[michaela]

Dear Ensapa

I think your argument was a little bit side track.  Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen made a promise to Nechung several lifetimes before when he was Duldzin Dragpa Gyaltsen.  I think the fact that the students at the time of Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen has samaya or not is irrelevant in this case.  Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen will become a Dharmapala regardless.

However, coming back to the interesting point, why is it the circumstance surrounding Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen transforming to become Dharmapala needed to be so dramatic?  An enlightened being can manifest in different body, while maintaining his existing incarnation.  I always think that because he did not have any anger in his mindstream.  So Nechung needed to help him.

[Ensapa]

Dear Ensapa

I think your argument was a little bit side track.  Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen made a promise to Nechung several lifetimes before when he was Duldzin Dragpa Gyaltsen.  I think the fact that the students at the time of Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen has samaya or not is irrelevant in this case.  Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen will become a Dharmapala regardless.
Yes, but in order to become a Dharmapala, he would have to relinquish the role of a physical Lama and the only factor that exists to keep the Lama longer around is the samaya of the students. He could have manifested as a Dharmapala sooner, but he did not because he had students that needed him. But why did he pass on early to manifest as a Dharmapala? We'll need to think of what pushes a Guru to leave. Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen being a Dharma protector is for sure, but what hastens or delays it, is obviously the students. That is my point and it is related.

However, coming back to the interesting point, why is it the circumstance surrounding Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen transforming to become Dharmapala needed to be so dramatic?  An enlightened being can manifest in different body, while maintaining his existing incarnation.  I always think that because he did not have any anger in his mindstream.  So Nechung needed to help him.

It's for people of this day and age. As we have noticed in many previous posts, people of this day and age often will be interested in cases of people being suppressed. If Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen became a Dharma protector by peaceful means, most of us today wont be able to relate to him.

I would like to think that his anger is actually divine anger so that he can take on a wrathful form as it would be more effective for people of this day and age, as well as more powerful in reversing adverse situations.

[Dondrup Shugden]

This is such an interesting post and calls on your logic to firmly believe that is not being unenlightened that Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen needed to be reminded by Nechung of his promise to arise as a Protector for our times but simple humility as quoted below by a contributor to this article.



"Whoever says that it was because Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen is a spirit is not speaking logically.

In case youve all forgotten theres such a thing as humility in the Gelugpa tradition and in fact, in all Buddhist traditions. If Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen remembered instantly, how is that showing humility? Even Shakyamuni himself had to be requested to teach by the Hindu gods...so was HE a raging spirit who forgot his vows of compassion to benefit all sentient beings? Come on."

[christine V]

Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen have to be reminded by Nechung, Other than H.H is manifesting an environment for us to received the protector; i think H.H is showing compassion, and also to show us no ego.

In my humble opinion, this is to make us understand that, to protect a precious dharma we need to have suitable karmic connection. We need to be humble and compassion. Without Nechung request Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen, we could not have a suitable environment to have the dharma manifest. By "listening " to the reminder of Nechung, Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen is showing us non ego and compassion.