China police forced people to admit they practise Dorje Shugden?

[Namdrol]

Wednesday, 15 May 2013

Chinese police kill Tibetan monk in custody
 
DHARAMSHALA, May 14: In a reported case of custodial death of a Tibetan political prisoner, Chinese police beat a monk to death for possessing recordings of speeches by Tibetan spiritual leader His Holiness the Dalai Lama and for his stance on Tibet’s independence.

Exile Tibetan media sources have identified the deceased monk as Kaldo, formerly a monk at the Chamdo Monastery, Tibet.

Kaldo was detained from his home in Dzogang on April 21 by Chinese police for possessing speeches of the Dalai Lama. He was taken to the local police station where he was kept and severely beaten until he died on April 28.

Reports suggest that the Dalai Lama’s speeches that Kaldo had kept were about the Shugden diety, the propitiation of which has been discouraged by the exile Tibetan spiritual leader.

According to reports, when Chinese police told Kaldo to sign a letter saying he worships Shugden diety, he instead wrote ‘Tibet is independent’ several times on the paper. Kaldo was severely beaten and tortured until he passed away in custody.

This is not the first instance of custodial death in Dzogang. In January 2009, a Tibetan youth, Pema Tsepak, succumbed to his injuries sustained from beatings by Chinese authorities.

Pema Tsepak, 24 was arrested along with Thinley Ngodrub, 24, and his brother Thargyal, 23, from Punda town in Tsawa Dzogang, for carrying a white banner reading ‘Independence for Tibet,’ throwing paper fliers in the air, and shouting slogans.

Chinese police brutality in Dzogang was reported earlier this year in February as well when authorities arrested six Tibetans and brutally beat them, leaving two with broken bones for carrying out an anti-China protest.

Several Tibetans had carried out a protest against China’s rule in front of the local Chinese government office in Meye town on the eve of the Tibetan new year, Losar on February 10. The protesters raised slogans for religious freedom in Tibet and also pasted posters calling for Tibet’s independence.
 

[bonfire]

It may be that for Kaldo had recognised that he relies on Dorje Shugden, he may have been left free to go?
May it have been so?

To be a practitioner of Dorje Shugden is going against the advise of the Dalai Lama, thus it is like an insurance for the Chinese police that one is not supporting the Dalai Lama, and by extension, not an activist for the independance of Tibet.
Isn't it said that Dorje Shugden is harming the cause of the "independant" Tibet?

So it could be that the Chinese police wanted to make sure that Kaldo was not a supporter of the Dalai Lama by making him writing it down that he is a Dorje Shugden practitioner. Thus then it would have nothing to do with "forcing people to admit the practice of Dorje Shugden" contrary to what the title of this post seems to imply.

I make a difference between politics and spiritual practice. To me, the "free Tibet" has nothing to do with a Buddhist practice.
And anyway, Tibet, China, is free, free to practice the Buddhist practice of one's choice, while the same cannot be said of the exiled Tibetan community that leaves under the rule of the CTA and the ban of religious practice instigated by the Dalai Lama over Dorje Shugden.

Was Kaldo a political activist or not, I don't know, that is not my point.
Was he a practioner of Dorje Shugden, I don't know neither is it my point.

I pray for a peaceful Chinese Tibet.
I pray for a peaceful China.
I pray for a great spiritual China
I pray that all Tibetans outside China may be able to practice Dorje Shugden freely and not suffer further discrimination.
On that ground, I pray they would be as free as the Chinese Tibetans.
I pray for Kaldo also.
I pray for those involved in Kaldo's death also.

[DS Star]

So it could be that the Chinese police wanted to make sure that Kaldo was not a supporter of the Dalai Lama by making him writing it down that he is a Dorje Shugden practitioner. Thus then it would have nothing to do with "forcing people to admit the practice of Dorje Shugden" contrary to what the title of this post seems to imply.

It is very obvious that the religion practice or in this case, Dorje Shugden's practice, is not the real concern for the Chinese authority. The real issue here is whether the monk is a supporter of HH the 14th Dalai Lama.

This is political motivated actions by the Chinese authorities to suppress the Tibetans' fight for their independence.

From what I see, the monk himself is also more concern of political issue rather than spiritual aspect of it.  The admission of him practicing a certain deity named Dorje Shugden, in his mind means he goes against his leader; he associates following Dalai Lama's advice on Dorje Shugden as the most important proof of his loyalty to the Dalai Lama and thus, the proof of his patriotism to his country.

It is very sad that he has to 'fight' the hard way and to pay with his life. Nevertheless, this is definitely not a spiritual issue, it is purely a political issue, from both sides i.e. the Chinese authorities as well as the young monk.

[Ensapa]

I think this part of the news is fake:

According to reports, when Chinese police told Kaldo to sign a letter saying he worships Shugden diety, he instead wrote ‘Tibet is independent’ several times on the paper. Kaldo was severely beaten and tortured until he passed away in custody.

Because in reality, I doubt that the Chinese would give two hoots whether or not which monk is practicing Dorje Shugden and this was probably inserted to dramatize the whole event and to show how 'patriotic' the monk is. It is unfortunate that the monk died while in custody and most probably he said more things to provoke the police to do so. And I do agree with DS Star that this news is anything but spiritual: it is political in nature and there is nothing to prove that Kaldo was actually a CTA agent whose suicidal mission was to provoke the Chinese to kill him so that there will be news. I am skeptical.

[Q]

I think this is a very shoddy piece of news that is filled with political agenda, just as many have already expressed.

Whichever way the news goes, it will ignite anger in both the Chinese, and Tibetans... while putting down DS practitioners. Why do I say put down DS practitioners? Because first most, admitting one practices DS is worst than death... and the very fact that the Chinese forces the monk to admit he practices DS feeds into people's minds that once you practice DS you are disassociating yourself from the DL and that the Chinese supports you.

They have just turned the monk into a martyr and where there is a martyr you'll see more young, ignorant and idiotic people self-immolating themselves. I wonder if they've ever read about Ghandhi... but I suppose pulling off something like what Ghandhi had done would be far too difficult for these Tibetan, so they end up just burning themselves.

Sad to say once again, DS practitioners become the victim and used in another person's fight... talk about casualties..

[Ensapa]

I think this is a very shoddy piece of news that is filled with political agenda, just as many have already expressed.

Whichever way the news goes, it will ignite anger in both the Chinese, and Tibetans... while putting down DS practitioners. Why do I say put down DS practitioners? Because first most, admitting one practices DS is worst than death... and the very fact that the Chinese forces the monk to admit he practices DS feeds into people's minds that once you practice DS you are disassociating yourself from the DL and that the Chinese supports you.

They have just turned the monk into a martyr and where there is a martyr you'll see more young, ignorant and idiotic people self-immolating themselves. I wonder if they've ever read about Ghandhi... but I suppose pulling off something like what Ghandhi had done would be far too difficult for these Tibetan, so they end up just burning themselves.

Sad to say once again, DS practitioners become the victim and used in another person's fight... talk about casualties..

You're right. The whole thin has been given an additional twist to the whole matyr thing by adding in the Dorje Shugden element. Also note that the news article does not contain any proof that the document that was signed by Kaldo is a paper that forces a confession that he practices Dorje Shugden. All of these are just hearsay or just something normal that CTA twisted to fit their own agendas, and in this case, to further their ban on Dorje Shugden which they see a symbol of their authority and power i.e whoever upholds the ban means they submit themselves to the CTA and thus more stories like these are spun.

[Rinchen]

The whole issue is based on if the monk was a supporter to Dalai Lama or not. It has nothing to do with Dorje Shugden. They are just using Dorje Shugden as a way to test the monk to see if he is a follower of Dalai Lama.

If it is carefully being read, the article is being portrayed in a manner that it is because of Dorje Shugden, that monk is dead; because of Dorje Shugden, the police are beating the monk to death. Hence, Dorje Shugden is bad, no one should practice Dorje Shugden, instead listen to what Dalai Lama has said and ban Dorje Shudgen. But that is not even true, how would Dorje Shugen be a part of this. If they are putting it this way, Dalai Lama has a part to play as well. If it was not for the ban he made, nonsensical incidences like this would not even occur.

Who in the right mind would write "Independence for Tibet" when you yourself are in custody, being laid on the table of death? If the monk really did not want to write that he is a Dorje Shugden practitioner, he would have just refused to write anything. Why write such a thing when it is something that the Chinese government do not want to hear?

I know it is going to sound harsh when I say this. But I think that if the monk really did that, then he just asked for his own death. It has nothing to do with anyone at all. So people should not point fingers at anyone, especially towards Dorje Shugden. Come to think of it, Dorje Shugden has nothing to do with it at all.

[Ensapa]

The whole issue is based on if the monk was a supporter to Dalai Lama or not. It has nothing to do with Dorje Shugden. They are just using Dorje Shugden as a way to test the monk to see if he is a follower of Dalai Lama.

If it is carefully being read, the article is being portrayed in a manner that it is because of Dorje Shugden, that monk is dead; because of Dorje Shugden, the police are beating the monk to death. Hence, Dorje Shugden is bad, no one should practice Dorje Shugden, instead listen to what Dalai Lama has said and ban Dorje Shudgen. But that is not even true, how would Dorje Shugen be a part of this. If they are putting it this way, Dalai Lama has a part to play as well. If it was not for the ban he made, nonsensical incidences like this would not even occur.

Who in the right mind would write "Independence for Tibet" when you yourself are in custody, being laid on the table of death? If the monk really did not want to write that he is a Dorje Shugden practitioner, he would have just refused to write anything. Why write such a thing when it is something that the Chinese government do not want to hear?

I know it is going to sound harsh when I say this. But I think that if the monk really did that, then he just asked for his own death. It has nothing to do with anyone at all. So people should not point fingers at anyone, especially towards Dorje Shugden. Come to think of it, Dorje Shugden has nothing to do with it at all.

It could most probably be propaganda rather than anything else. There is another more neutral report where the monk did not write anything on the paper but he died anyway. This report was obviously written to put China in a bad light and to make people think that Dorje Shugden is evil and is what caused the death of the monk, as you can see from how the article is written and positioned. It is very sad for people to have to resort to such ways in order to carry on their agendas and distort news and facts.

[Rinchen]

It could most probably be propaganda rather than anything else. There is another more neutral report where the monk did not write anything on the paper but he died anyway. This report was obviously written to put China in a bad light and to make people think that Dorje Shugden is evil and is what caused the death of the monk, as you can see from how the article is written and positioned. It is very sad for people to have to resort to such ways in order to carry on their agendas and distort news and facts.

Yes, reporters should not be making up stories like this. Not only are they putting something down, but they are also creating unease with the emotions of the readers. If the readers do not know better, they would believe in what is being reported. Leading people to think that China is a violent country whereby when you disagree with them, hey would kill you. And that because China is so violent, killing innocent people and they practice Dorje Shugden. Therefore Dorje Shugden is bad because Dorje Shugden encourages people to kill. Which is all not true!

[Ensapa]

Yes, reporters should not be making up stories like this. Not only are they putting something down, but they are also creating unease with the emotions of the readers. If the readers do not know better, they would believe in what is being reported. Leading people to think that China is a violent country whereby when you disagree with them, hey would kill you. And that because China is so violent, killing innocent people and they practice Dorje Shugden. Therefore Dorje Shugden is bad because Dorje Shugden encourages people to kill. Which is all not true!

But you see, that is precisely the objective of articles like these: to spread fear and dischord amongst the people so that they will hate China more because then it would bring more people to fight China for the Tibetans. Why would the CTA need to fight for their rights when someone else can do it for them? Obviously they'll try to get someone else to fight their battles for them because it is much easier and to do so, they will need to appear as pathetic as possible, and then generate as much hate they can for China for the others.

[Rinchen]

It is not that they should be fighting or not. But it is that the CTA is using the sympathy act on others so that they will pity them and hence believe whatever illogical things that they say or write. CTA should really stop playing sympathy acts like this. It is so tired to just listen to another news by the CTA to gain empathy and not do their work, waiting for their knight in shining armour to save their day. They should wake up, no one would be that knight to help them. China is growing politically, who would be so dumb to offend China at times like this?

[Ensapa]

It is not that they should be fighting or not. But it is that the CTA is using the sympathy act on others so that they will pity them and hence believe whatever illogical things that they say or write. CTA should really stop playing sympathy acts like this. It is so tired to just listen to another news by the CTA to gain empathy and not do their work, waiting for their knight in shining armour to save their day. They should wake up, no one would be that knight to help them. China is growing politically, who would be so dumb to offend China at times like this?

Well, id say that the westerners who were dumb enough to believe that CTA = Dalai Lama would support them all the way, blindly and without any questioning. It's a sad sight but these people are quite a lot in numbers and they would keep recruiting more people to fight for their cause by exploiting those with the white knight syndrome -- those who believe that the Tibetans should have Tibet back, even if it means destroying China and the CTA is not efficient enough to govern it.

[Tenzin Malgyur]

Reports suggest that the Dalai Lama’s speeches that Kaldo had kept were about the Shugden diety, the propitiation of which has been discouraged by the exile Tibetan spiritual leader.

According to reports, when Chinese police told Kaldo to sign a letter saying he worships Shugden diety, he instead wrote ‘Tibet is independent’ several times on the paper. Kaldo was severely beaten and tortured until he passed away in custody.

In my opinion, the reason Kaldo was beaten and tortured till he died was not because of his refusal to admit to practicing Dorje Shugden. Kaldo might have angered the Chinese police by not complying with their order to sign the letter and wrote the declaration that Tibet is independent. It is real distressing to read so much news on police being hostile to prisoners in their custody. The fact is, in China it is against the law the to possess any material related to the Dalai Lama, and whether one practices Shugden or not is clearly not the issue here at all.

[Ensapa]

Reports suggest that the Dalai Lama’s speeches that Kaldo had kept were about the Shugden diety, the propitiation of which has been discouraged by the exile Tibetan spiritual leader.

According to reports, when Chinese police told Kaldo to sign a letter saying he worships Shugden diety, he instead wrote ‘Tibet is independent’ several times on the paper. Kaldo was severely beaten and tortured until he passed away in custody.

In my opinion, the reason Kaldo was beaten and tortured till he died was not because of his refusal to admit to practicing Dorje Shugden. Kaldo might have angered the Chinese police by not complying with their order to sign the letter and wrote the declaration that Tibet is independent. It is real distressing to read so much news on police being hostile to prisoners in their custody. The fact is, in China it is against the law the to possess any material related to the Dalai Lama, and whether one practices Shugden or not is clearly not the issue here at all.

The Buddha himself has said that one of the rules to following his teachings and to have a happy life is to respect the laws of the land. What the Tibetans here are doing is not that they are respecting the laws of the land at all but are transgressing them at every turn that they can just to 'express' themselves. I dont think it's logical or justified that China is being called as cruel when they punish Tibetans that dont follow the law but makes no mention of how is it cruel to give the death penalty to those who practice corruption in China. Double standards, anyone?

[Rinchen]

Well, id say that the westerners who were dumb enough to believe that CTA = Dalai Lama would support them all the way, blindly and without any questioning. It's a sad sight but these people are quite a lot in numbers and they would keep recruiting more people to fight for their cause by exploiting those with the white knight syndrome -- those who believe that the Tibetans should have Tibet back, even if it means destroying China and the CTA is not efficient enough to govern it.

It is just sad to see how much "knowledge" we may really have when it comes to believing in the nonsense that is being said by the CTA. Why would the Westerners even believe that what the CTA say would be of equivalence to what the Dalai Lama has said? It is just so silly. This teaches us that we have to always be very sure of the things that is being told to us. Not everything is correct!