Keep Buddhism out of same-sex marriage debate, activist advises

[Ensapa]

As Buddhists, what are you views on same sex marriage?

Keep Buddhism out of same-sex marriage debate, activist advises

Pravit Rojanaphruk
The Nation July 27, 2013 1:00 am
Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) activists should try not to get trapped in a debate with Buddhists on whether Buddhism allows same-sex marriage, to avoid complicating matters, said Anjana Suvarnananda, pioneer LGBT activist and co-founder of Anjana Suvarnananda.

While some members of the House of Representatives are pushing for a draft law for same-sex civil union, Anjana believes Buddhists who may hold an anti-LGBT stance should not be alarmed into complicating the situation.

"No monks have ever spoken through the media to denounce gays or lesbians. This is perhaps because they may see the matter as worldly," Anjana told The Nation. Anjana suggests that Buddhists should be more concerned about the degradation of Buddhism in Thailand in areas such as the growing popularity among Thais of taking a trip to pay respects to nine temples in the hope of accruing good merit - and the lack of loving kindness amongst some self-professed Buddhists.

"Some [of these people] donated money they cheated from others to temples - and yet they get recognition. We should pay more attention to such issues," said Anjana, stressing that Buddhism fundamentally sees human beings as equals, so same-sex marriage should be acceptable to Buddhists. What's more, said Anjana, Thailand is a secular state and religious teaching should not influence laws or infringe on the rights of minorities, such as gays and lesbians.

Prominent social critic and Buddhist scholar Sulak Sivaraksa said according to Buddhist teachings, lay people can have sex and it doesn't matter whether they're same sex or not. "It's normal," he said, adding that Buddhism doesn't see sex as primarily for pro-creation, unlike in Christianity and Islam.

Another Buddhist scholar, Suraphot Thaweesak, said Buddhism only sees extra-marital affairs as wrong, but not same-sex marriage.

He warned, however, that many Buddhists are conservative and may put up a resistance and the only way to reform Thai Theravada Buddhism into becoming more open and liberal is to take the Sangha order away from the control and supervision of the state.

[Q]

I think this is a pointless debate... Buddhism encourage detaching from our attachment. Marriage itself is an attachment be it a straight marriage or a same sex marriage, there is no difference in either one except for the gender of the couple involved.

In fact, some people go to temples and ask buddhist monks to officiate their wedding etc... i think that is ridiculous. Monks represent the very quality that oppose to marriage... they have attained a certain form of renunciation for them to be able to dedicate their lives to Dharma. I think many people have a very unclear view about Buddhism in this way... It's true that we all want blessing... but whats the point of getting blessing to do something that is obviously increasing our attachment?

[Ensapa]

I think this is a pointless debate... Buddhism encourage detaching from our attachment. Marriage itself is an attachment be it a straight marriage or a same sex marriage, there is no difference in either one except for the gender of the couple involved.

In fact, some people go to temples and ask buddhist monks to officiate their wedding etc... i think that is ridiculous. Monks represent the very quality that oppose to marriage... they have attained a certain form of renunciation for them to be able to dedicate their lives to Dharma. I think many people have a very unclear view about Buddhism in this way... It's true that we all want blessing... but whats the point of getting blessing to do something that is obviously increasing our attachment?

Well I guess people still need to reaffirm their desires and beliefs which is why they want a monk's blessing for their wedding. I personally think it is a dumb idea as well but unfortunately not everyone understands Buddhism and all they want is happiness and blessings. It is also an idea that was influenced by local folk religion as well as christianity where the priest blesses the couple in the wedding ceremony to ensure that they have good luck and whatnot. I guess Buddhist monks will have to adapt to the society.

[Q]

I think this is a pointless debate... Buddhism encourage detaching from our attachment. Marriage itself is an attachment be it a straight marriage or a same sex marriage, there is no difference in either one except for the gender of the couple involved.

In fact, some people go to temples and ask buddhist monks to officiate their wedding etc... i think that is ridiculous. Monks represent the very quality that oppose to marriage... they have attained a certain form of renunciation for them to be able to dedicate their lives to Dharma. I think many people have a very unclear view about Buddhism in this way... It's true that we all want blessing... but whats the point of getting blessing to do something that is obviously increasing our attachment?

Well I guess people still need to reaffirm their desires and beliefs which is why they want a monk's blessing for their wedding. I personally think it is a dumb idea as well but unfortunately not everyone understands Buddhism and all they want is happiness and blessings. It is also an idea that was influenced by local folk religion as well as christianity where the priest blesses the couple in the wedding ceremony to ensure that they have good luck and whatnot. I guess Buddhist monks will have to adapt to the society.

I think it's time for people that label themselves as Buddhists to perhaps learn about it before calling themselves one. Blessings are meant to open the Dharmic seed within us to engage in spirituality, anything less than that is just commercial Dharma.

Oh well, at least they get Dharma seed planted in them during blessings.

[Blueupali]

I think it really depends on the culture the people are in, because we really don't want to unduly disturb people's mores; so in the U.S., for instance, I think same sex marriage is fine; I would say in a country where people are terrified of the idea, that it would be wiser not to make a big deal about it.
  That said, while I personally don't think it's a problem in current western soicieties, I have to say that I have always considered traditionally heterosexual marriage a trap of samsara.  So, while I think it is good to affirm people as having equal rights to marry and be in families, I am just saying generally, that marriage is one of those things that tends to bind us to samsara; I am not ordained, but I notice that Milarepa wasn't either; however, he mostly lived in a cave and avoided samsaric entanglements so he could free all beings from suffering.  So in other words, I think that gender is simply an imputation, so whichever consenting adults people may wish to take as partners--- that is okay, but you know, guys, it'd be better to free up our time to practice, regardless of sexual preference.

[Positive Change]

I think this is a pointless debate... Buddhism encourage detaching from our attachment. Marriage itself is an attachment be it a straight marriage or a same sex marriage, there is no difference in either one except for the gender of the couple involved.

In fact, some people go to temples and ask buddhist monks to officiate their wedding etc... i think that is ridiculous. Monks represent the very quality that oppose to marriage... they have attained a certain form of renunciation for them to be able to dedicate their lives to Dharma. I think many people have a very unclear view about Buddhism in this way... It's true that we all want blessing... but whats the point of getting blessing to do something that is obviously increasing our attachment?

Well I guess people still need to reaffirm their desires and beliefs which is why they want a monk's blessing for their wedding. I personally think it is a dumb idea as well but unfortunately not everyone understands Buddhism and all they want is happiness and blessings. It is also an idea that was influenced by local folk religion as well as christianity where the priest blesses the couple in the wedding ceremony to ensure that they have good luck and whatnot. I guess Buddhist monks will have to adapt to the society.

I think it's time for people that label themselves as Buddhists to perhaps learn about it before calling themselves one. Blessings are meant to open the Dharmic seed within us to engage in spirituality, anything less than that is just commercial Dharma.

Oh well, at least they get Dharma seed planted in them during blessings.

What you both said has truth... it really is the motivation behind wanting the blessing. We are attached regardless... Being Buddhist does not mean we are not attached. We are just the same as the other sentient beings "stuck" in samsara. However, wanting a blessing from a monk to give the union of two souls some form of spiritual acknowledgement is not a bad thing. Especially when both are spiritually inclined...

If they are both Buddhist, why not? Does not mean if one is gay, one ceases to be Buddhist or if one gets married, one is not Buddhist either. Whatever the case is, we are attached to our delusions but if we have the merits to be within a Dharmic environment, I reckon that should be embraced... one hurdle at a time. And perhaps with time, that relationship will rise to a higher and better level and makes them both better people... why not right?

Having labels in itself is an attachment so let us just not cast the first stone... we are all in this together and let us make our spiritual journey as free from obstacles as possible!

[hope rainbow]

Are we all Buddhists?
Being gay or straight make one a Buddhist or not?
Is Buddhism pro or against gay marriage?

These are senseless questions bringing about a senseless debate that can only confuse people more.

Buddhism is a method taught by the Buddha, a method that gives us a path leading to liberation.
Those that walk that path are Buddhists.
We are all walking the path actually.
Why all?
Because we will all get there, even if it is a matter of eternity.
Because we are all concerned.
Why do we all get there eventually?
Because where the path leads us to is our true nature, one we are all seeking to reach eventhough going about it in delusioned ways.
What about when we act in a manner opposed to the path?
We can only act against the path if the path is ours.

Thus, we can say that we are all Buddhist, gay, straight, black, white, tall, small, human, animal, ghost, god, martian...

The legal recognition of same-sex marriage has nothing to do with the Buddha's teachings, nothing.
It is an act of society, it is neither "on" the path, nor "off" the path, it is only administration.
Nothing to say about it, unless we can talk about attachment, delusion, empathy, compassion and wisdom! But there would be no mention of these in the legal text legislating about same sex marriage.

[Blueupali]

The legal recognition of same-sex marriage has nothing to do with the Buddha's teachings, nothing.
It is an act of society, it is neither "on" the path, nor "off" the path, it is only administration.
Nothing to say about it, unless we can talk about attachment, delusion, empathy, compassion and wisdom! But there would be no mention of these in the legal text legislating about same sex marriage.

I agree that the legal recognition of same sex marriage has nothing to do with religious teachings generally; at least that would be nice to strive for in societies where religion and state are already separate.
  As far as marriages within Buddhism, I think that would vary by lineage; I am not actually sure how Buddhists get married as far as in the Buddhist community; I know of a lama that was holding semi-monk vows that performed a marriage ceremony between a Catholic and a Buddhist.
  As far as I am concerned, and as a Buddhist who sees people as equals, I think it would be fine for people to marry, if that is their wish, regardless of whether they are opposite or same gender.  Legally, yes, Buddhism wouldn't matter, but neither would Christianity in theory, but the obstacles to legal same-sex marriage in the U.S. often come from the Christian theory of the universe.
  The original question from Ensapa was as Buddhists, how do we feel about same-sex marriage?  So as a Buddhist, I am saying it is perfectly okay with me; because I think from the perspective of a Western Buddhist; I think gender is imputed so I think either way is fine.  I do think, as a Western Buddhist, that it is important to help others by accepting them fully rather than having concerns about their sexual preference or race, or language, or income, that might cause us to divide and other them.
  I do think marriage of any sort can bind us more into samsara, so as a Buddhist my problem is more with entanglements generally rather than based on which gender the people are who are entangling each other. However, that said, there are plenty of Buddhists who are married, I've heard, though the ones I have karma with seem mostly to meditate or read dharma books:).

 

[Q]

I think this is a pointless debate... Buddhism encourage detaching from our attachment. Marriage itself is an attachment be it a straight marriage or a same sex marriage, there is no difference in either one except for the gender of the couple involved.

In fact, some people go to temples and ask buddhist monks to officiate their wedding etc... i think that is ridiculous. Monks represent the very quality that oppose to marriage... they have attained a certain form of renunciation for them to be able to dedicate their lives to Dharma. I think many people have a very unclear view about Buddhism in this way... It's true that we all want blessing... but whats the point of getting blessing to do something that is obviously increasing our attachment?

Well I guess people still need to reaffirm their desires and beliefs which is why they want a monk's blessing for their wedding. I personally think it is a dumb idea as well but unfortunately not everyone understands Buddhism and all they want is happiness and blessings. It is also an idea that was influenced by local folk religion as well as christianity where the priest blesses the couple in the wedding ceremony to ensure that they have good luck and whatnot. I guess Buddhist monks will have to adapt to the society.

I think it's time for people that label themselves as Buddhists to perhaps learn about it before calling themselves one. Blessings are meant to open the Dharmic seed within us to engage in spirituality, anything less than that is just commercial Dharma.

Oh well, at least they get Dharma seed planted in them during blessings.

What you both said has truth... it really is the motivation behind wanting the blessing. We are attached regardless... Being Buddhist does not mean we are not attached. We are just the same as the other sentient beings "stuck" in samsara. However, wanting a blessing from a monk to give the union of two souls some form of spiritual acknowledgement is not a bad thing. Especially when both are spiritually inclined...

If they are both Buddhist, why not? Does not mean if one is gay, one ceases to be Buddhist or if one gets married, one is not Buddhist either. Whatever the case is, we are attached to our delusions but if we have the merits to be within a Dharmic environment, I reckon that should be embraced... one hurdle at a time. And perhaps with time, that relationship will rise to a higher and better level and makes them both better people... why not right?

Having labels in itself is an attachment so let us just not cast the first stone... we are all in this together and let us make our spiritual journey as free from obstacles as possible!

I do not deny that there are marriages whose union would be of more benefit, take for example Trijang Rinpoche and his divine consort. Or the many monks that are married and later live a celibate life after the first son is born.

I'm not saying that marriage itself is evil. There is no one attachment that bring more harm than another. A person attached to their looks or to food is equally as bad to a person attached to another human being, in this case one's spouse.

In the Buddhist text, where is the puja or prayer that one can do for marriage rites? The only thing that is clearly stated is as lay Buddhist, one does not commit adultery. So if there is no puja, no prayer, no nothing that condones marriage in Buddhism, how is having one's marriage in a temple justifiable? It is fine if one goes over to the temple to receive blessings from the monks for a new journey in their life, but for the many lay buddhist that is void of Dharma knowledge, I think personally, that such actions may perhaps bring more harm to them psychologically than any good.

How so? In Christianity, marriage rites is the norm. But in Buddhism out of the kindness of the Sangha, they would bless a couple to marry for the couple's own good, to plant Dharma seeds in them. However, if you see the normal mentality of lay ignorant Buddhists, they automatically feel that the temple, monks, and the whole system of Dharma encourage or condones the action of getting married... It is this potential wrong view that I'm not all that happy about. Ultimately, they are not there for the blessings, but just for an encouragement that they are doing the right thing for a happy life. That's 'feel good' Dharma. During Trugpa's time, He was so worried about Spiritual Materialism... now it has degenerated further to 'feel good' Dharma... an empty vessel void even of Dharma knowledge.

So is marriage wrong or right? It's neither.... And if one finds a partner that can help support or better one's spiritual practice, that's excellent. But for the everyday Buddhist, it's not so straight cut nor do they have the knowledge/wisdom/ability to think in this manner. However you will never know if the relationship or marriage will ultimately bring benefit or damage to one's spiritual practice in the long run and that's the risk one takes compared to one that decides not to get involved in relationships.

Ultimately, it is our decision on how deep we wish to immense ourselves to better our spiritual achievements, and all we need to do is ask ourselves one question.... "Who are the people that's most interested in spirituality and wishes to gain enlightenment?" My answer would be: Sangha.

As to the original question on what I feel as a Buddhist, about same-sex marriages? Well, let me ask you a question... What's wrong with it? Obviously no one will be able to give an answer that's not mixed with gibberish so I suppose the answer would be nothing wrong.