Tibetans Condemn Protest by Shugden Followers Against Dalai Lama

[icy]

What I find it highly ridiculous is that Sonam Dorjee, a Tibetan settlement officer wants to debate with Shugdenpas. 

Firstly, Sonam Dorjee ought to get all his facts right before he said this.  Otherwise, it will be a great embarassment to him when Shugdenpas take up his offer to debate with him.  As I see it, it would simply be a waste of time to fiddle with him either he knows not for he is a blind follower of the Dalai Lama or wants to remain politically correct with the Dalai Lama for keeping his rice bowl secure.   

Secondly, the protest mentioned was conducted by International Shudgen Community (ISC) around the Globe and not by Tibetans.  There were no Tibetans in the demonstration.

Thirdly, China has never been involved in the protest.  Perhaps, it is time now to get China to support the ISC since the Dalai Lama and Obama are accusing China over human rights issue and non-religious freedom in Tibet to square off.

I find his statement hilarious as he in turn tried to turn the table around by saying Shugdenpas are lying. 

The following has been reported by "The Times of India" Chandigar:


S Gopal Puri,TNN | Mar 2, 2014, 03.56 AM IST

DHARAMSHALA: Protests by a sect of Tibetans, the Dorjee Shugden followers, during a function attended by Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama last week, has evoked strong reactions from Tibetan community in exile here. Shugden followers have been banned by the Dalai Lama and Tibetan government in exile from participating in routine spiritual and democratic activities, unlike other Tibetans.

Officials of the Tibetan settlement office here stated that they regularly receive letters from Shugden followers on various issues. But these are anonymous letters and have no information about the sender. These people are becoming a threat to the security of Dalai Lama as they had protested in the open for the first time perhaps, they said.

According to reports, Shugden followers gathered in hundreds outside the Clara University where Dalai Lama was supposed to give a lecture. They protested demanding religious freedom.

Condemning the incident, a Tibetan welfare officer said Shugden followers were against the teachings of Budha and as such, they have been banned. "I am ready to debate with them at any stage if they are ready to do so. But they should stop these type of activities," said Sonam Dorjee, Tibetan settlement officer, here.

"Shugden followers must stop lying. Recently, I saw a YouTube clip where Inji Nun were shouting slogans in front of His Holiness, saying stop lying. I must tell Shugden followers that they must stop lying in the name of religious freedom. Shugden is not a religion, they worship spirits, which is not part of teachings by Buddha. They should not play into hands of China. If they have the guts, they should come to my office and have a debate before they shout slogans. Please do not send unofficial and anonymous letters to our office," said Dorjee, expressing his annoyance, through his Facebook account on Saturday as a message to Shugden followers.

However, reports quoting Len Foley, spokesperson of international Shugden community protesting against Dalai Lama, has stated that Dalai Lama was enforcing a ban that is affecting millions of people and they want Dalai Lama to end this discrimination and religious abuse.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/Tibetans-condemn-protest-by-Shugden-followers-against-Dalai-Lama/articleshow/31243865.cms

[dondrup]

Sonam Dorjee is digging his own graveyard by challenging Shugdenpas to a debate with him. What makes him so privileged and great as to challenge Shugdenpas for a debate when His Holiness Dalai Lama had not even agreed to any debate with Shugdenpas?

His childish behaviour shows the level of his ignorance about Buddhadharma, Dorje Shugden, and the happenings outside of the Tibetan settlement.  His wrong accusations against Shugdenpas further made him looked stupid and irresponsible as a government representative of Central Tibetan Administration. It was a bad reflection of CTA. How can CTA progress if they have people like Sonam Dorje serving in their organisation?

[diamond girl]

this is a funny article, i thought. This TNN report says that "Shugden followers have been banned by the Dalai Lama and Tibetan government in exile from participating in routine spiritual and democratic activities, unlike other Tibetans." which means that they DO think that there is unfairness to Shugden followers as they cannot take part in spiritual and democratic activities.

Sonam Dorjee says that he will debate with Shugdenpas - firstly, he says Dorje Shugden is a spirit. On what grounds? There are no grounds so on that alone, he would be fried at the debate! even the Dalai Lama does not dare to debate on this issue! Shugden lamas have been requesting to discuss this with Dalai Lama but Dalai Lama has always refused. Not necessary to wonder why.

[Blueupali]

Yes, if people are going to debate, we must debate someone with the knowledge to debate; the Dalai Lama hasn't debated with us, because he would loose.
 

[vajrastorm]

It's both laughingly funny and sad at the same time that Sonam Dorjee is out of his depths in talking and challenging Shugden practitioners and the peaceful International Shugden Committee protestors in the US, to a debate.

He doesn't have a clue as to why the peaceful protestors shout slogans like "Stop Lying" at Dalai Lama, or why a nun has to go in front of the Dalai Lama , peacefully saying something to him(not shouting at him). He didn't know that the nun was making a peaceful and earnest request, gently requesting him to lift the ban. He doesn't know of the pain and suffering of Shugden practitioners in the face of the atrocities committed against them because of the ban.

He doesn't know why the protestors have been shouting "Stop Lying" at the Dalai Lama. In his ignorance, he challenges them to stop lying(about what?) and wants to debate with them!!

He hasn't a clue either about who Dorje Shugden is and blindly follows the Dalai Lama and  others in condemning him as a spirit. Hence, he says all Shugden practitioners are going against the Buddha's teachings. 

In a way, he shows Shugden practitioners how important it is that our practice is grounded in a clear and firm knowledge of the Buddhadharma and in Guru Devotion.


 

[kris]

Hello, the reason why people send you unofficial mails is because no one from CTA is willing to discuss about this issue. Now that you have openly invite Dorje Shugden practitioners to debate with you, I am really looking forward to this debate and see what logic you will be using

Like Dalai Lama said, "The best way to resolve any problem in the human world is for all sides to sit down and talk".

Why not just sit down and talk?!

[lotus1]

It’s interesting that there are letters sending to CTA on Dorje Shugden’s information. I hope more and more letters will be sent to CTA to educate them and open their eyes! They are so arrogance, ignorance and blindly following the ban imposed by HH Dalai Lama.

If Dorje Shugden is a spirits, why would the great masters such as HH Pabongka Rinpoche, HH Trijang Rinpoche, HH Zong Rinpoche, Lama Yeshe, Kyabje Domo Geshe Rinpoche, etc. Would the whole list of great masters worshiping spirits? Definitely this is not the case! Sonam Dorjee, please do your homework before challenging Shugdenpas to a debate!

Check out the Dorje Shugden lamas : http://www.dorjeshugden.com/category/great-masters/recent-masters/ 

[dsiluvu]

Oh my gawd... lets have a debate YES YES YES Mr. Sonam Dorjee, Tibetan settlement officer, Let's have a debate and record it LIVE so that all could see how you will be so easily crushed!

Already from your point you have stated a lie that the Ani Nun was shouting when the whole world can see on the Youtube she was not a calm and that it self is already a lie from your end.

So many years already, this debate or dialogue with the Shugdenpas whould have been done a long time ago and before the whole exile community decides to discriminate those Shugdenpas. It is amazing that this has not happen yet and Shugdenpas I am sure will welcome this debate of the century with open arms and for all to witness as well. Let the world be the judge of this. Let United Nations be judge of this and let's have it LIVE!!!! Why not if you're so right and we're so wrong.

Shugden followers have been banned by the Dalai Lama and Tibetan government in exile from participating in routine spiritual and democratic activities, unlike other Tibetans.

And from this statement, you've confirmed to the world that there is a ban and religious discrimination and abuse happening and contradict all HHDL statements that says there is no ban!!! Hahaha and you still don't get it that religious freedom means worshipping "anything" under the sun! Please go check the United Nations constitution on what is "Religious Freedom" before making yourself a mocking fool that humiliates your own people and spiritual masters of loving kindness and compassion and shoot yourself on the foot!

[yontenjamyang]

Ok. Why don't we Shugdenites accept the debate challenge and according to tradition the loser have to convert to the winner's camp. As Dorje Shugden practice is not a spirit practice, or for that matter the debate can be from various angles, the Shugdenite will always win. Then one by one we can convert them. Even if the Dalai Lama were to participate, he will lose. That this challenge. It is an opportunity.
Maybe that is the way to lift the ban!

[maricisun]

A debate is just the right thing needed at this moment. If HHDL were to join in the debate he will surely lose because Dorje Shugden is not a spirit but an Enlightened being and there are so many proofs to it.
It will be an interesting debate and this may just be the opportunity to lift the ban too!
Can't wait for the ban to be lifted so that everyone can practice openly without being discriminated.

[Tenzin Malgyur]

From the interview reported in The Times of India, it is very obvious that Sonam Dorjee is not giving a true narrative to the whole issue of the protestors. Of course, he would only be making a fool of himself if ever the challenge for a debate were to be taken up by a Shugdenpa.
On his mention of the video, did anyone noted any hint of violent from the soft spoken nun? I found the reply and tone from His Holiness was rather unpleasant. I wish many more to come across the video and let them decide, who is the threatening party.

[vajrastorm]

Sonam Dorjee represents a huge group of Tibetans who are living in a smug world of their own who do not know the realities of the case, and blatantly call genuine Shugden practitioners and protestors liars, when they peacefully point out the sufferings of Dorje Shugden practitioners as a result of the  ban on Shugden practice.   


Here in the video and pictures shown along with the following article - " Tibetan leadership organizes violence" -we see , beyond the shadow of a doubt, the truth of suffering of Shugden practitioners from the violence inflicted by anti -Shugden leaders and their followers ,as a result of the ban. Sonam Dorjee (and all who think alike as him) take a look  at this article, with its incriminating  video and pictures as undeniable evidence, at:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/tibetan-leadership-organizes-violence/


  Then reconsider your wish to challenge these so-called "liars" to  a debate.

Every minute that the ban is not lifted, is every minute of pain and suffering for innocent Shugden practitioners. Every minute that the ban is not lifted aggravates the confusion of new people who would like to practice Buddhism, but who see how the corner-stones of 'harmony' and 'peace' (that Buddha so strenuously emphasized as Dharma) are being blatantly violated.