The relationship between Dorje Shugden and Je Tsongkhapa

[thor]

Recently watched this teachings by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso explaining the relationship between Dorje Shugden and Je Tsongkhapa. Its quite an old teaching but still very relevant, including the lineage of Dorje Shugden.

Geshe Kelsang explaining the relationship between Dorje Shugden and Je Tsongkhapa.	Small | Large

There's plenty of relevant information from this website too:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/category/introduction/incarnation-lineage/
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/category/introduction/spiritual-lineage/

[diablo1974]

Its definitely relevant as long as its dharma. I know there are people might have doubts in how Dorje Shugden lineage came about and became skeptical about it. But as we can see from the result of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, his centres are growing and expanding strongly. We should start building faith in DS and Je Tsongkhapa untill the day the ban is lifted.

[Manjushri]

An enlightened, attained and supreme master like Geshe Kelsang Gyatso cannot be wrong, otherwise the 3 jewels will not support, protect and have his centers flourish and grow as it has till today,if he was teaching a wrong path. Oh no no. The tremendous amount of benefit NKT has brought to thousands all over the world exemplifies that the teachings and method given can lead one to the path of enlightenment as well EVEN with the practise of Dorje Shugden.

Dorje Shugden and Je Tsongkhapa have the same mind continuum. Meaning Dorje Shugden is a Buddha, just as Tsongkhapa is, who is also an emanation of Manjushri. Since the mind continuum is the same, but the manifestation is different, then doesn't it prove that Dorje Shugden is not a spirit practise? Otherwise based on this, then Tsongkhapa's practise is too, since Dorje Shugden and Tsongkhapa have the same mental continuum?

The Dharma never dies, just as when Buddha taught it 2500 years ago. The Dharma has not died till today, only the method of spreading it and learning may have differed. Since the practise of Dorje Shugden has been around for 300 odd years (correct me if I'm wrong please) , if it was really evil, the practise would have long vanished, instead of gain momentum and grow until today.
   

[vajratruth]

It is very much the practice of enlightened beings to return to protect the precious Teachings and preserve their purity. Manjushri, although already enlightened, returned as Buddha Shakyamuni's disciple for that reason. Buddha Shakyamuni himself prophesied that Manjushri, the Buddha Of Wisdom would return born as a boy in Tibet and go on to found Ganden monastery. Buddha Shakyamuni gave the boy the future name Sumatikirti (Losang Drakpa) which means "the glory of Wisdom".

Lama Tsongkhapa taught Nagajurna's Middle Way Treatise perfectly and in fact Nagajurna received the teachings from none other than Manjushri. Therefore, we can see that Buddha Shakyamuni passed the teachings to Manjushri, who passed it to Nagajurna who in turned taught some of greatest Masters and eventually Manjushri returned in the form of Tsongkhapa to synthesize the Teachings.

So precious are the Teachings that the same mental continuum of a Buddha keeps returning to preserve it.  Dorje Shugden arose from under Je Tsongkhapa's throne in Tushita and it is clear that Manjushri's mental continuum is in Tsongkhapa and also Dorje Shugden. Manjushri, Tsongkhapa and Dorje Shugden are one. However, times are different and in an age of degeneration, an Uncommon Protector must arise to protect the teachings and who better to do this than the emanation of Manjushri himself.

There is no way for Dorje Shugden to be a worldly [and evil] spirit because how can the enlightened mental continuum of a Buddha suddenly become a ghost?

I especially appreciate how Geshe Kelsang articulated that this mental continuum has always being around us in the aspect of Spiritual Teachers such as Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche, and are undoubtedly around us today. How can a Buddha who has been around since Buddha Shakyamuni suddenly disappear just because a group of people decided to ban it.

The role of HHDL in spreading the Teachings is also clear and we must remember that HHDL is the emanation of Chenrezig whilst Je Tsongkhapa is the emanation of Chenrezig, Manjushri and Vajrapani. A Buddha can manifest in a few concurrent forms in order to spread the Dharma.

[DharmaSpace]

In the old days it is not surprising to know of lamas who have visions and special powers. Tagphu Pemavajra is certainly one of those lamas who can see the heavens and go to Maitreya heaven. In this day and age of course one will get thrown into an asylum for proclaiming visions and all.

Tagphu Pemavajra was one of the teachers of Pabongka Dorjechang, and if Tagphu Pemavajra saw Dorje SHugden and his other main forms emanate from underneath je Tsongkhapa’s throne it is good enough for me. Pabongka Rinpcohe is the heavyweight of the Gelug tradition, my faith is with him.

[Ensapa]

To me no matter how anyone wants to put it, Dorje Shugden, Manjushri, Yamantaka, Guru Rinpoche and Tsongkhapa is the same being, just putting on different costumes for the sake of different roles that they play in samsara. People who fail to see that are just people who are either too narrow minded or they are too insecure about their attainments and knowledge about the Dharma because there is no way that a Buddha can only be limited to appearing in a certain way (i.e peaceful, gentle form) so to doubt Dorje Shugden as being the same as Tsongkhapa would have to have logical truth (i.e how are they different in ESSENCE) as nobody can debate on that, then they should logically just accept it.

[Solomon Lang]

The video of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso explaining the relationship between Dorje Shugden and Tsongkapha has been moved here:

Geshe Kelsang explaining the relationship between Dorje Shugden and Je Tsongkhapa	Small | Large

[vajrastorm]

Yes, as the great Lama, Kelsang Gyatso ,explains, Manjushri (the Buddha of Wisdom), Je Tsongkhapa and Dharmapala Dorje Shugden possess the same mental continuum.   Historically, Je Tsongkhapa manifested as a great pandit and teacher to restore the purity of the Buddha's teachings and to bring in a new renaissance of Buddhism, at a time when the Buddhadharma was declining. Then Dorje Shugden, arose as a Protector to prevent the teachings from degenerating and disappearing.

Kelsang  Gyatso also reminds us that at all times, beings with the same mental continuum as the Buddha, will appear to ensure that the Buddha's teachings continue to spread and to prevent the teachings from degenerating. These are the Spiritual Guides that guide us unfailingly on the path to liberation and full enlightenment.

We can also see the same mental continuum in the Incarnation Lineage, from Mahasiddha Biswasa ,Sakya Pandita, Buton Rinchen Drub, Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen, Panchen Sonam Drakpa, Sonam Yeshe Wangpo, Ngawang Sonam Geleg Pelzang to Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. Duldzin Drakpa Gyeltsen was said by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche,(in Music Delighting an Ocean of Protectors) to be of the same mindstream as Je Tsongkhapa. Hence, his subsequent incarnation lineage up to Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen would be of the same mindstream as Dorje Shugden.

Hence, whichever way we look at or trace it, the mental continuum of Je Tsongkhapa is the same as that of Dorje Shugden.
 

[dsiluvu]

Manjushri (the Buddha of Wisdom), Je Tsongkhapa and Dharmapala Dorje Shugden possess the same mental continuum.   Historically, Je Tsongkhapa manifested as a great pandit and teacher to restore the purity of the Buddha's teachings and to bring in a new renaissance of Buddhism, at a time when the Buddhadharma was declining. Then Dorje Shugden, arose as a Protector to prevent the teachings from degenerating and disappearing.

If this is so, so logically speaking could we say that Dorje Shugden is actually one with Je Tsongkhapa??? Or is that incorrect? Seeing how these enlightened beings can emanate in to several different beings simultaneously all at the same time because it comes from the same source of energy that acts out different functions to benefit the world? 

[christine V]

Thanks Solomon for the links.


I strongly agreed with Vajrastorm &  vajratruth.

Without Manjushri himself manifest as a Dharma Protector, who else are more qualified to protect the Dharma? A dharma protector must be well-verse in what the Dharma He is protecting. Thus, we are fortunate to know Dorje Shugden arise as Dharma protector for this age. And patiently give this precious Dharma to us.

[Gabby Potter]

I don't understand why is Dorje Shugden's practise banned when He actually comes under the same lineage as Lama Tsongkhapa and Setrap. We all have proofs for this, people just decided to go with the ban and never realised that His practise will eventually benefit a lot of people. I personally have received a lot of benefits from Lord Dorje Shugden and I will not stop worshipping Him no matter what others say.

[grandmapele]

However we see it, we have to study the history and lineage before we can condemn anything, anyone or any practice. If we cannot see the Gurus as Buddhas or follow the teachings of the Buddha on equanimity, compassion and gratitude and work towards wisdom, then we have nothing and ignorance, our base and worst klesha wins.