Call for dialog

[gyatso]

The dispute between the Dalai Lama and the Shugden supporters is damaging the reputation and credibility of Buddhism in general and of the Dalai Lama and the Shugden practice in particular. It is the main cause for disharmony within the exiled Tibetan community and the only ones who benefit from the inability to resolve this 350 year old conflict is the communist Chinese government. Followers of the Dalai Lama and practitioners of Dorje Shugden both want this dispute to end NOW to show a good example, to bring peace amongst Tibetans and to put an end to religious conflict.

In Ancient times in India and also Tibet, differences between religious views were publicly debated and the loser would humbly accept defeat and all his followers would change their views and in this way everyone would make spiritual progress.

I therefore plead with both the Dalai Lama and Kelsang Gyatso, as representative of the Western Shugden Society, to resolve this issue through coming together in dialog. You both are trained in the skills of logic and debate as taught to you by the same teachers in the same Buddhist tradition. If two famous and highly respected lamas cannot resolve disputes through dialog and debate, then what hope is there for the rest of us to resolve our differences. What hope is there in dialog with the atheist Chinese.

Dalai Lama followers and Shugden practioners are united in the wish to resolve this conflict immediately. We implore you to end this dispute now before it is passed on to future generations.


If you would like to see this dispute resolved through dialog – please, both Dalai Lama followers and Shugden practitioners, make this happen.

[emptymountains]

So, in conclusion I would like to say to the Dalai Lama and his supporters, could you please stop giving these same old reasons for stopping the worship of Dorje Shugden. You have already repeated these reasons thousands of times. If you have valid reasons to prove that he is an evil spirit, that he harms Tibetan independence, and that he harms the Dalai Lama’s life then I would be happy to debate with you.

(Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, 01 December 1997)

[Heartspoon]

I don't know the Ven. Kelsang Gyatso. What I know for sure though is that Ven. Kelsang Gyatso challenged HH the Dalai Lama to debate on this topic. 

HH the 14th Dalai Lama has received lots of similar challenges and has repeatedly shied away from any debate on this topic. 

So among the two of them, I would say that Ven. Kelsang Gyatso doesn't seem to be the one who fears debate...

On one hand, I have sympathy for HH the Dalai Lama's plight, having to defend what appears as a senseless position with logical fallacies so numerous that it would take an elephant load of ink to write part of them.
On the other hand, I would really like to see how long HH the Dalai Lama could defy logic on the debate ground.

I guess it would end rather quickly, my friend... Oh yes, it would be swift..., you see among qualities special pride is not particularly highly valued, especially if one compares it with reason...

Such a debate will never take place. Even though they may not be particularly bright in Dharamsala, they are still not complete fools...

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Yes, Heartspoon, that is indeed so.

The sad fact is that the politico-religious position of HHDL makes it impossible for the HHDL to admit that he is wrong. If he would ever admit, or even allow the chance of being seen as admitting, that he has done a mistake, it would be too devastating to the Tibetans' faith in their Leader, and hence, in pretty much everything.

The Old Man of Dharamsala will not yield, for he cannot yield. The Tibetans need hope, and if their faith is destroyed by letting the truth be told, then "so long with the truth". HHDL, as the Big Boss, as the Flagstaff of Hope, cannot be seen to have done a mistake of this magnitude. And he knows that a debate would show that he indeed has done so.

Therefore there will never be a debate.

HHDL tells the truth, he doesn't debate about it. And that's all, folks.
__________

That being said, I think that nevertheless we could make an open letter to the HHDL, using as the main argument his own talk about the importance of solving problems through discussion... 

(The local time here is 02:18 and I'm very tired, so I shall tomorrow post here a draft of an Open Letter, written in the most inoffensive way that I can muster, to be edited by the forum community. And if the outcome is in any way usable, then let's use it.) Off to sleep now.... zzzzzzzzz

[jeff Ryan]

I have been thinking about this idea lately. I have come to the conclusion while it would make ME feel good to be able to yell "shame on you dalai lama" at a demonstration, there is no real useful purpose in it other than to make us feel better to let out our outrage at the atrocities he has committed against the Lineage of Je Tsong Khapa.

The truth is (in my opinion) he has already succeeded in destroying the three once great monasteries and any chance for blessing coming from continuing studies there. The future of our Lineage lies on the shoulders of our Masters and those good monks who continue their studies to keep our Lineage alive. We should be concentrating on creating new monasteries free from his iron grip; a safe place where the blessing of the Lineage can grow and prosper. May Je Tsong Khapa's Teaching flourish for hundreds of eons!!!!!!!!!!

[Zhalmed Pawo]

zzzzz....  ah, as it seems, I'm not asleep yet, so I really do have to comment on Thom Canada's post:

GREAT  Give the Old Thurman what is due. There is nothing like the Western Rule of Law. 

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Hello all,

Does anyone have the exact words of the HHDL used in his UofW speech in 14.04.2008 ?

The http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/ says as follows:

...From the AP reports, Seattle, April 14, 2008: Inside the (University of Washington) arena, the Dalai Lama received an honorary degree and spoke of the importance of employing dialogue and mutual respect to solve problems. "You will make this century of peace," the Dalai Lama told students. "Today's world (is) heavily interdependent. Destruction of your neighbor or enemy is destruction of yourself."

And http://abcnews.go.com/US/WireStory?id=4653682&page=1 puts it like this:

Inside the arena, the Dalai Lama received an honorary degree and spoke of the importance of employing dialogue and mutual respect to solve problems. He was greeted by a standing ovation. University president Mark Emmert welcomed the Tibetan leader, calling him the "pre-eminent spiritual leader of our time."

Since those accounts come from a pen of a journalist, they might be inaccurate. It would be great if somebody has the actual words used by the HHDL. Anyone?

[a friend]

 

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Now now, do not laugh...

This is important to know what were the exact words.
__________

So please, if somebody could just give me those very words used by the HHDL on that occasion...

[Dondrup Shugden]

We are still calling!!!! And it is 7 years later.  Are you home, CTA?

[grandmapele]

Dialogue will only work if both sides are willing and open and receptive to new approach to the same old problem. If either side approach the table with a closed mind. So, is the time right for a dialogue?

[fruven]

Not opening to dialogue, this speaks volume of how little CTA is open to change. Why is CTA not opening to dialogue?

• Is it because the need to compromise in a dialogue?
• Is it because dialogue is 'bad' method/way?
• Is it because dialogue is too much work and they need to give up their privilege status?

[christine V]

What a long illogical ban... This ban have causes so much confusion.. so much pain and yet nothing is being spoke accept all the illogical excuses.. Which can be easily defeated.

CTA- you are not returning to Tibet. Why you want to make the Buddhist's world suffered as you are?

Please do a dialog as soon as possible. Please show the world the Buddhist is harmony group. We are so much of the jokes to other religion now. Because our actions and talks is totally contradict

[kris]

CTA is playing the hatred card, inciting the hatred between the Tibetans and the Chinese is their tactic for the past 50+ years. If you read Facebook comments by many Tibetans, their hatred towards the Chinese is incredible and unbelievable. There are 1.3 billion people in China, and yet the Tibetans can hate each and single one of them, which does not make sense when you think about it, because most Tibetans are Buddhists but Buddhism is not practiced when it comes to compassion and kindness.

There was a dialogue between the ISC and CTA recently, but it wasn't fruitful at all. So, there is a dialogue, then what next now?