Dalai Lama's history and lineage is at risk - karma?

[dsnowlion]

Sangay and the CTA are terrified of China's selection of the Dalai Lama and holding a meeting with pro-Dalai Lama groups to think of ways to "protect" the original recognition process. Unfortunately, this will not deter China from choosing the Dalai Lama they want. All this reminds me of karma how they revised the history of Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen and tries to wipe away any historical trace and lineage. Now it is about to be done to them via the Dalai Lama.

Over 300 Tibetans gather for 3rd Special Meeting

DHARAMSHALA, October 3: Close to 350 Tibetans from all around the world have gathered here at the headquarters of the Tibetan government in exile, officially known as the Central Tibetan Administration, to participate in the third Special Meeting from Oct 3 – 5, 2019.

The three-day meeting is being attended by 345 delegates from 24 countries to brainstorm on the two agendas of ‘5-50 Vision’ and ‘the relationship between the lineage of His Holiness the Dalai Lamas and Tibetan People’.

Speaking on the occasion, the Speaker of Tibetan Parliament in Exile said, "His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s reincarnation is the prerogative of His Holiness and the traditional office of Gadhen Phodrang and not that of any state, institution or individual."

The President of Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) Lobsang Sangay said it is crucial for Tibetans to step up to China’s ominous and long-term design on everything Tibet, especially the reincarnation of the 14th Dalai Lama.

He inferred that China's 'Management Measures for the Reincarnation of 'Living Buddhas’, a document published as order no. 5 in 2007 is a ruse, proven false by its own figures.

The number of reincarnation the document claimed to have recognized at the time of publication stood at 300 which spiked to 800 in April 2016, and 1300 six months later, in sharp contrast to 545 reincarnations from all three regions of Tibet from 1901 to 1950.

“More recently, Beijing invited nine Indian journalists who after a week in China sought to steer the government of India away from questioning China’s claim to recognition of the 15th Dalai Lama,” he added.

Sangay said it is Beijing preparing to assert legal and historical context in its bid to recognize the 15th Dalai Lama.

The special meeting of the key actors of the exile administration hopes to formulate ways to protect the original recognition process of His Holiness Dalai Lama’s reincarnation from ubiquitous Chinese encroachment.

The participants were divided into ten committees which will bring suggestions and recommendations to be discussed further.

Source: http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41814&article=Over+300+Tibetans+gather+for+3rd+Special+Meeting

[Harold Musetescu]

What would happen if the 14th Dalai Lama suddenly died today?

Would the CTA let China pick the next 15th Dalai Lama".

The CTA could declare that they do not recognize the Chinese 11th Panchen Lama.

They could state that he is a fake and a fraud who was falsely created by the Chinese Government.

So what could the EVIL and CORRUPT CTA do to continue to remain in power?

They could state that the Dalai Lama's chosen 11th Panchen Lama is under arrest in China and can't be used by the CTA to locate, recognize and enthrone the next 15th Dalai Lama.

So they decide to declare that the Dalai Lama's officially recognized 10th Panchen Otrul Rinpoche will be used to locate, recognize and enthrone the next 15th Dalai Lama.

The CTA will state that Panchen Otrul Rinpoche is one of the official emanations of the 9th Panchen Lama.

As such he and only he can be trusted with this most important matter.

For your information the Venerable Panchen Otrul Rinpoche is ANTI DORJE SHUGDEN.

The CTA would remain in power and THEIR 15th Dalai Lama would be under THEIR total control.

The 14th Dalai Lama has not "Officially" stated that the Chinese backed 11th Panchen Lama has been the one "Officially" chosen by him to locate, recognize and enthrone his next incarnation.

Pray that the 14th Dalai Lama officially and publicly states that the Chinese 11th Panchen Lama will locate, recognize and enthrone his next incarnation.

That the Dalai Lama also states that the EVIL and CORRUPT CTA will have no business in picking who will find his incarnation.

If not what will the EVIL CTA do if they have the chance to remain in full power?

We can all guess what they will do!!

[Harold Musetescu]

Here is a link to Tsem Rinpoche's article on the Dalai Lama recognizing the Chinese 11th Panchen Lama.

http://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/current-affairs/dalai-lamas-sudden-change-of-mind-about-china-backed-panchen-lama.html

In this article it states that the Panchen Otrul Rinpoche is an emanation of the 9th Panchen Lama.

Quote
"So is it possible to have more than one 11th Panchen Lama? The Dalai Lama was keen to provide evidence that it is possible even though, as you will notice from the video, there were no related questions that would prompt this information. In fact, this is not the first time there have been two Panchen Lamas. Even in the case of the previous 10th Panchen Lama, it is very well-known that two boys were identified as candidates to occupy the Panchen Lama throne. In the end, both were recognized as reincarnations of the 9th Panchen Lama but only one, the mind emanation, ascended to the throne. The other was recognized as Panchen Otrul, or “emanation of Panchen”.
Unquote

So as you see the CTA could use Panchen Otrul Rinpoche in an attempt to control the selection of the next 15th Dalai Lama.

Tsem Tulku has stated that Panchen Otrul Rinpoche was recognized and enthroned as an emanation of the 9th Panchen Lama.

Here is a link to Panchen Otrul Rinpoche's website.

http://www.jampaling.org/about-us/rinpoche/

[Drolma]

Sangay and the CTA are terrified of China's selection of the Dalai Lama and holding a meeting with pro-Dalai Lama groups to think of ways to "protect" the original recognition process. Unfortunately, this will not deter China from choosing the Dalai Lama they want. All this reminds me of karma how they revised the history of Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen and tries to wipe away any historical trace and lineage. Now it is about to be done to them via the Dalai Lama.

This is so hypocritical, didn't CTA themselves override the recognition procedure of the Karma Kagyu lineage. By tradition, the reincarnation of Karmapa does not need the endorsement from the Dalai Lama who is the lama of another lineage or the endorsement from the CTA. Why did the CTA meddle in the recognition process of the 17th Karmapa?

The CTA always has a double standard. They are lenient to themselves but when others do the same, they are not happy. How trustworthy is the CTA if they are being so unfair.

The way the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama is recognised is according to the tradition. The Chinese government has not done anything different since the recognition process was laid out by the Qing emperor. Thus, the Dalai Lama that is going to be recognised by the Chinese government will be the legitimate one.

[Harold Musetescu]

Sangay and the CTA are terrified of China's selection of the Dalai Lama and holding a meeting with pro-Dalai Lama groups to think of ways to "protect" the original recognition process. Unfortunately, this will not deter China from choosing the Dalai Lama they want. All this reminds me of karma how they revised the history of Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen and tries to wipe away any historical trace and lineage. Now it is about to be done to them via the Dalai Lama.

This is so hypocritical, didn't CTA themselves override the recognition procedure of the Karma Kagyu lineage. By tradition, the reincarnation of Karmapa does not need the endorsement from the Dalai Lama who is the lama of another lineage or the endorsement from the CTA. Why did the CTA meddle in the recognition process of the 17th Karmapa?

The CTA always has a double standard. They are lenient to themselves but when others do the same, they are not happy. How trustworthy is the CTA if they are being so unfair.

The way the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama is recognised is according to the tradition. The Chinese government has not done anything different since the recognition process was laid out by the Qing emperor. Thus, the Dalai Lama that is going to be recognised by the Chinese government will be the legitimate one.

The CTA did not meddle it was the Dalai Lama.

The Dalai Lama was first to meddle in this affair by recognizing the 17th Karmapa.

The CTA only got involved AFTER the Dalai Lama did.

[Tracy]

Actually, if you look at the history, China government has the final say on who will be the reincarnation of a high lama such as the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama. The selection procedure of the reincarnation of the high lamas was already formulated and decided on since the Qing dynasty. This procedure was also agreed by the Tibetans.

Since Qing dynasty, the selection of the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama has to be supervised and approved by the Chinese government. How the Chinese government finds the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama is according to the tradition, it is not what they have created.

If the CTA insists on finding their own Dalai Lama, they are going against the procedure. Their selection of the Dalai Lama will not be according to the tradition. If there are two Dalai Lama, the one picked by the Chinese government will be the legitimate one.

[Ngawang]

Actually, if you look at the history, China government has the final say on who will be the reincarnation of a high lama such as the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama. The selection procedure of the reincarnation of the high lamas was already formulated and decided on since the Qing dynasty. This procedure was also agreed by the Tibetans.

Since Qing dynasty, the selection of the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama has to be supervised and approved by the Chinese government. How the Chinese government finds the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama is according to the tradition, it is not what they have created.

If the CTA insists on finding their own Dalai Lama, they are going against the procedure. Their selection of the Dalai Lama will not be according to the tradition. If there are two Dalai Lama, the one picked by the Chinese government will be the legitimate one.

I agree. The other way to recognise the new incarnation of His Holiness the Dalai Lama is to have His Holiness Panchen Lama to recognise the new incarnation. This has been the tradition for many years where the Dalai Lama will recognise the new incarnation of Panchen Lama and vice versa.

Hence, it is best to let the current Panchen Lama recognise the new incarnation of His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

[Tracy]

Actually, if you look at the history, China government has the final say on who will be the reincarnation of a high lama such as the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama. The selection procedure of the reincarnation of the high lamas was already formulated and decided on since the Qing dynasty. This procedure was also agreed by the Tibetans.

Since Qing dynasty, the selection of the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama has to be supervised and approved by the Chinese government. How the Chinese government finds the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama is according to the tradition, it is not what they have created.

If the CTA insists on finding their own Dalai Lama, they are going against the procedure. Their selection of the Dalai Lama will not be according to the tradition. If there are two Dalai Lama, the one picked by the Chinese government will be the legitimate one.

I agree. The other way to recognise the new incarnation of His Holiness the Dalai Lama is to have His Holiness Panchen Lama to recognise the new incarnation. This has been the tradition for many years where the Dalai Lama will recognise the new incarnation of Panchen Lama and vice versa.

Hence, it is best to let the current Panchen Lama recognise the new incarnation of His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

At the end of the day, the incarnation of the Dalai Lama still has to go through the golden urn draw to identify THE ONE. It is a tradition that has been followed since Qing dynasty. Most importantly, this selection procedure was accepted by the Tibetans.

It makes no sense to have two Dalai Lama, it will make people lose confidence in Gelug lineage, like what is happening in Karma Kagyu tradition now. We are in a generated era now, it is important to do what we can to preserve the lineage. If the CTA really treasure the precious Tibetan Buddhism, they should find ways to come to an agreement with the Chinese government and stop go against them.

[Harold Musetescu]

Actually, if you look at the history, China government has the final say on who will be the reincarnation of a high lama such as the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama. The selection procedure of the reincarnation of the high lamas was already formulated and decided on since the Qing dynasty. This procedure was also agreed by the Tibetans.

Since Qing dynasty, the selection of the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama has to be supervised and approved by the Chinese government. How the Chinese government finds the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama or the Panchen Lama is according to the tradition, it is not what they have created.

If the CTA insists on finding their own Dalai Lama, they are going against the procedure. Their selection of the Dalai Lama will not be according to the tradition. If there are two Dalai Lama, the one picked by the Chinese government will be the legitimate one.

I agree. The other way to recognize the new incarnation of His Holiness the Dalai Lama is to have His Holiness Panchen Lama to recognize the new incarnation. This has been the tradition for many years where the Dalai Lama will recognize the new incarnation of Panchen Lama and vice versa.

Hence, it is best to let the current Panchen Lama recognize the new incarnation of His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

First of all the 13th and 14th Dalai Lamas were NOT chosen via the "Golder Urn" but by Tibetans.

Secondly the 14th Dalai Lama has NEVER stated that the current 11th Panchen Lama will recognize his next reincarnation.