Tradition of one Dalai Lama following another is NOT NEEDED--karmapa

[LosangKhyentse]

Comment on Karmapa’s Statement


Some comment, please read to the end:

Karmapa softens stance on China (2009)

The Karmapa Lama – Tibetan Buddhism’s third-highest figure – has spoken of his admiration for Chinese culture.

The comment made in an interview with the BBC Chinese Service suggested a willingness to co-operate with China.

He said he backed the Dalai Lama’s policy of seeking greater autonomy for Tibetans rather than independence, but blamed Beijing for deadlocked talks.

The 23-year-old exiled monk is tipped as a possible compromise candidate to succeed the ageing Dalai Lama.

The 17th Karmapa Lama is the only major monk-reincarnate to be recognised by both Beijing and the Dalai Lama.

China has refused to recognise the boy identified by the Dalai Lama as the Panchen Lama – the second most senior figure – detaining him and appointing its own candidate.

Peaceful resolution?

The Karmapa fled Tibet in 2000 to Dharamsala in India, the seat of the Tibetan government-in-exile.

In a rare interview, the Karmapa told the BBC that his feelings toward China had warmed since leaving Tibet, and that he had embraced elements of Chinese culture – learning to speak Mandarin fluently and also watching Chinese films.

He said he fully supported the Dalai Lama’s approach to relations with China, but blamed Beijing for the current stalemate over the political status of Tibet.

At the latest round of stop-start talks with Beijing last November, China condemned the Tibetans’ proposals as a bid for “disguised independence”.

“We can only wait for China to become more open and more democratic.

“The [Dalai Lama's] Middle Way Approach would then be more important because it advocates not separation from China but keeping Tibet as part of China.”

China accuses the Dalai Lama of plotting to separate Tibet from the motherland, and of fomenting unrest.

The Karmapa said he hoped that the political issue of Tibet could be resolved peacefully, saying it would be in the interests of both Tibet and China.

“If there is a chance [to improve relations], I will do whatever I can,” he added.

The Karmapa said the Tibetan government-in-exile had become more democratic, and that the tradition of one Dalai Lama succeeding another need not be followed.

“I just wish there could be more people to take part in the competition [to become leader]“, said the Karmapa.

He said he fully supported the Dalai Lama’s approach to relations with China, but blamed Beijing for the current stalemate over the political status of Tibet.

At the latest round of stop-start talks with Beijing last November, China condemned the Tibetans’ proposals as a bid for “disguised independence”.

“We can only wait for China to become more open and more democratic.

“The [Dalai Lama's] Middle Way Approach would then be more important because it advocates not separation from China but keeping Tibet as part of China.”

China accuses the Dalai Lama of plotting to separate Tibet from the motherland, and of fomenting unrest.

The Karmapa said he hoped that the political issue of Tibet could be resolved peacefully, saying it would be in the interests of both Tibet and China.

“If there is a chance [to improve relations], I will do whatever I can,” he added.

The Karmapa said the Tibetan government-in-exile had become more democratic, and that the tradition of one Dalai Lama succeeding another need not be followed.

“I just wish there could be more people to take part in the competition [to become leader]“, said the Karmapa.


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Comment:

Why isn’t the Tibetan Government protest against this statement that challenges the Dalai Lama’s authority? Why is it perfectly OK for a lama of other sect to make this statement, while if any person from the Gelug sect were to say this, he will be persecuted and be accused of treason? The Tibetan Government is clearly afraid of offending the other sects, while they relentlessly press down the Gelugpas, for example Dorje Shugden practitioners, so that they will be seen as non-sectarian.



FROM:  http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=238
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The karmapa mentions that a new Dalai Lama doesn't need to replace the current one, that this tradition is unnecessary. Doesn't that amount to Treason? It is interesting how the Tibetan govt keeps still and quiet re this statement. If it was made by anyone of the Gelug background, they would be spoken about during a teaching. Scolded and ostracized, especially if your a Gelug Lama. Dalai Lama never dare scolds lamas of other sects if you notice. Why does only the Gelug lamas incur his displeasure?


Karmapa wishes more ppl can TAKE PART IN THE COMPETETION TO BECOME A LEADER??!!! Wouldn't that be another treasonous statement? No one is allowed to go near to even training to become the next ruler after Dalai Lama. Because any idealogies that are different than the Dalai lama is NOT ALLOWED. Hence Tibet, unlike other countries cannot 'survive' without the Dalai Lama. The govt system is created, reinforced and made firm that way.

[dsnowlion]

Comment on Karmapa’s Statement

“The [Dalai Lama's] Middle Way Approach would then be more important because it advocates not separation from China but keeping Tibet as part of China.”

China accuses the Dalai Lama of plotting to separate Tibet from the motherland, and of fomenting unrest.

The Karmapa said he hoped that the political issue of Tibet could be resolved peacefully, saying it would be in the interests of both Tibet and China.

“If there is a chance [to improve relations], I will do whatever I can,” he added.

The Karmapa said the Tibetan government-in-exile had become more democratic, and that the tradition of one Dalai Lama succeeding another need not be followed.

“I just wish there could be more people to take part in the competition [to become leader]“, said the Karmapa.

The Karmapa said he hoped that the political issue of Tibet could be resolved peacefully, saying it would be in the interests of both Tibet and China.

“If there is a chance [to improve relations], I will do whatever I can,” he added.

The Karmapa said the Tibetan government-in-exile had become more democratic, (REALLY - IT DOESN'T APPEAR SO WHEN THEY CONTINUE THE BAN OF ANOTHER RELIGIOUS PRACTICE, THE TGIE NEED TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE) and that the tradition of one Dalai Lama succeeding another need not be followed.

“I just wish there could be more people to take part in the competition [to become leader]“, said the Karmapa.
(WOW THIS PART HERE WILL BLOW THE PRO DALAI LAMA PEOPLE'S MIND IN TO PIECES... HMMM shld post this in Phayul?

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Comment:

Why isn’t the Tibetan Government protest against this statement that challenges the Dalai Lama’s authority? Why is it perfectly OK for a lama of other sect to make this statement, while if any person from the Gelug sect were to say this, he will be persecuted and be accused of treason? The Tibetan Government is clearly afraid of offending the other sects, while they relentlessly press down the Gelugpas, for example Dorje Shugden practitioners, so that they will be seen as non-sectarian.

Very TRUE - we've not heard the Dalai Lama saying anything negative about the Karmapa. WHY IS THAT SO??? I am not so well versed in Tibetan Politics so if anyone can shed some light in this, that would be great.

The karmapa mentions that a new Dalai Lama doesn't need to replace the current one, that this tradition is unnecessary. Doesn't that amount to Treason? It is interesting how the Tibetan govt keeps still and quiet re this statement. If it was made by anyone of the Gelug background, they would be spoken about during a teaching. Scolded and ostracized, especially if your a Gelug Lama. Dalai Lama never dare scolds lamas of other sects if you notice. Why does only the Gelug lamas incur his displeasure?

Karmapa wishes more ppl can TAKE PART IN THE COMPETETION TO BECOME A LEADER??!!! Wouldn't that be another treasonous statement? No one is allowed to go near to even training to become the next ruler after Dalai Lama. Because any idealogies that are different than the Dalai lama is NOT ALLOWED. Hence Tibet, unlike other countries cannot 'survive' without the Dalai Lama. The govt system is created, reinforced and made firm that way.

Thank you TK for re-highlighting this post in the forum. What is said here by the Karmapa and if becomes a reality will probably change the hostory of the Dalai Lama and Tibet forever? Perhaps the storm is changing its direction? By the Karmapa saying such things like "a new Dalai Lama doesn't need to replace the current one, that this tradition is unnecessary." is sort of hinting to us the change of Tibet's future or is he trying to challenge the Dalai Lama's system that is so firmly in place?

This seem like another puzzle discovered and slowly unfolding itself to a larger picture and to top it off the Karmapa is keeping good ties with China by stating “If there is a chance [to improve relations], I will do whatever I can,”

Then I suppose all this would make "some" sense as to WHY the Dalai Lama did not say anything regarding Karmapa's statements above. In fact HH himself have hinted that there may not necessary be another Dalai Lama in the future as things CHANGE! Could it be that HH and the Karmapa are working closely together to spread Dharma/Dorje Shugden?  For what reasons? I believe in one of Trijang Rinpoche's and Karmapa's previous life time, they both swapped places and became heads of each other sect. 
HHDL has also created the cause for Himself to be criticized, defamed, dragged to court etc at the very senior part of his life now due to a ridiculous BAN HH imposed making no sense yet allowing Trijang Rinpoche to continue practicing DS. 

The other puzzle is that in one of the posting in the forum by Trinley Kalsang on what he found in Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche's Collected Works; "When he went into the monastery there was a statue of Guru Dragpo with Dharmapala Shugden being pressed down under the statue’s feet.  The Karmapa stood in the presence of the statue for awhile, then pointed his finger at it and asked “who is the person that said to build this statue?  This isn’t Nyingma nor Sakya, certainly not Gelug and not Kagyu either.   I didn’t say to build it, this is not one of the deities you can’t rely on. " So what does that mean? Does this imply that the Karmapa knows the benefit of DS for the future and hence scolded his disciples in his prev incarnation and in that this Karmapa (if they are of the same mind stream as prev) would probably not oppose to the practice of Dorje Shugden? And Would it be possible that he may promote it in the future?

So How would this all affect Dorje Shugden practice and practitioners? Are all these high Lamas creating a plot too far beyong our liitle minds to perceive and for a bigger more beneficial purpose that we cannot even begin to realize, hence we in samsara confused already, get more confuse but later all will be awaken? Oh dear what a roller coaster ride it is. Crazy, Skillful, Amazing!!!

Well if the ruler (Dalai Lama) is changed or can change, then i suppose all the rules will also change and can change and what was once a Ban would be just be another History? All thing are impermanent isn't it?

Sorry if I am not making any sense? I hope they'll be more comments on this so we can all learn or discover something? I am just happy Dorje Shugden practice is spreading everywhere

[Alexis Ball]

Karmapa showing willingness to work with China and supports the DL in seeking greater autonomy for Tibet.  Hmm... this may not be such a bad idea IF the final result is that the practice of Dorje Shugden will prevail.

The situation is intricate and perhaps beyond the comprehension of our layman-mentality.

My perspective, not right or wrong, not offensive to anyone's beliefs, is that whatever we see and "understand" is not so simple and transparent. I see that the goal is to relief the sufferings of the people in Tibet and in exile from the persecution and violence inflicted by the Chinese politics.  To practice human decency and rights to live freely - both politically and spiritually, and independently too. And the path for the free practice of Dorje Shugden.

[Geronimo]

Beneath the concrete,
Are Flowers,
Waiting to be born.