Author Topic: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?  (Read 6680 times)

kris

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Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« on: January 02, 2012, 03:00:06 PM »
I saw these two photos of Serpom canteen quite a while back. After close inspection, we can see that the King's face is blacked out.

I read from another post somewhere in the forum that it is quite a common practice to cover his wrathful face so that people are not frightened. I just want to double confirm it is not graffiti and people just genuinely want to "cover" His face.

Also, if they want to cover his face, shouldn't people be more respectful to stick a paper or something?

triesa

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2012, 03:24:58 PM »
I saw these two photos of Serpom canteen quite a while back. After close inspection, we can see that the King's face is blacked out.

I read from another post somewhere in the forum that it is quite a common practice to cover his wrathful face so that people are not frightened. I just want to double confirm it is not graffiti and people just genuinely want to "cover" His face.

Also, if they want to cover his face, shouldn't people be more respectful to stick a paper or something?

Kris, They are using peacock feathers to cover the face of Dorje Shugden, zoom in and have a closer look at the pictures.

kris

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2012, 03:43:58 PM »
Triesa, you are right! I'm such an idiot :(

On a separate note, it is said that this canteen is the only place where the monks from Serpom monastery are allowed to have their meal as other places forbid them from eating there...

harrynephew

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2012, 03:44:18 PM »
That's a very weird form of practice which I've not seen before!

Triesa, you are right about the peacock feathers but I think there are other more wrathful deities in that picture besides the King himself.

Wonder what it really means.....
Harry Nephew

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beggar

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 07:03:43 PM »
.....although yes, it is not uncommon for monasteries to cover the face or even the whole image of the Protector, even in their protector chapels. I have seen this in Phelgyeling, and various other DS monasteries, for example.

This is also because the practice is generally considered to be of a tantric nature. By right, we should not even openly talk about having the practice as it is secret in nature.

Also, in general, images of wrathful deities, including deities such as Vajrayogini, Yamantaka etc were traditionally not revealed to the uninitiated, precisely for the reasons that you had mentioned, which are that people may develop wrong views if they do not understand the reasons behind their wrathful appearance, nakedness etc. and perhaps even put them off the practices for all the wrong reasons.

Nowadays, many lamas do openly show the images of these deities as there is usually teachings and explanations to go along with it. Also, it is by the many lamas' kindnesses that we can even see these images, for karmic imprints to be imprinted onto our minds. Not many of us will engage in very deep practice in this day and age, so the Lamas work another way by planting as many images of the Buddhas as they can in our mindstreams, that they may open up at a later time when we are more able to practice. 

Mana

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 07:59:22 PM »
beggar's explanation is most comprehensive and accurate.

I just want to add a little bit extra, perhaps the management of the monastery wants to put Dorje Shugden images in the canteen to bless everyone, but since a canteen is not really a sacred place to put holy images, so a compromise is to still put up those images, but cover up the face out of respect.

however, I must say that it could have been more tastefully done   ::)

yontenjamyang

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 08:19:49 AM »
Again I am learning something new on something old.

What about the prayers on this site. I read that one do not need an initiation or empowerment to these prayers.  Is that right? I have been doing it. It is has great effects. But if it is tantric practice, won't we need some initiation at least? Can someone help to explain...again. Pardon my ignorance.

Losang_Tenpa

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 01:43:58 PM »
Again I am learning something new on something old.

What about the prayers on this site. I read that one do not need an initiation or empowerment to these prayers.  Is that right? I have been doing it. It is has great effects. But if it is tantric practice, won't we need some initiation at least? Can someone help to explain...again. Pardon my ignorance.

What I was told by one of my Lamas is that while you don't necessarily need an empowerment, it is best to at least have a oral transmission and explanation of a specific practice.

For example, today Kyabje Yongya Rinpoche gave the oral transmision and commentary on Gyentse's (Ratna Shugden) long life practice.
Many of us here at Shar Gaden have the Dorje Shugden sogte, but even those who do not can now do this practice if they attended today's teaching.

Galen

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 03:44:09 PM »
Thank you Beggar for the explanation on why the face of the protector is covered. I have seen wall paintings of dharma protectors being covered by cloth as it is a secret and cannot be told. Here is am image I have seen where the face is also covered.


kris

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2012, 05:11:11 PM »
Wow Losang_Tenpa, you got oral transmission from Kyabje Yongya Rinpoche?! How lucky to get oral transmission from such high monk!

Just in case you are not too sure why there is a need for oral transmission:

The oral transmission (lung) is regarded as the soul of the Tibetan Buddhism. It is a sound or voice energy continuity that bears the power and energy of the masters lineage. Therefore it connects a student to a precious root teaching that has been transmitted across the centuries through unbroken masters lineages. It is through the voice of a master holding the tradition, and who reads or recites the teaching, that the hearer receives blessing and the self-confidence that removes doubts, and gains the spiritual awareness of the related lineage.

Barzin

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 06:05:23 PM »
Yes, I have also seen a few statues that were covered with brocade in monasteries. At first I thought it was because of the controversial issue so the King's face was covered so that people were not offended.  Later, I saw not only just the King, there were paintings, thangkas and also statues of other deities were covered. Thanks for Beggar's explanation, now i've learned something new.  Yes, i think the monastery is still practicing the custom and it is a form of respect to the tantric deities.  So I consider ourselves very lucky to be able to at least see some of these highly attained deities images. 

beggar

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 08:54:34 PM »
Again I am learning something new on something old.

What about the prayers on this site. I read that one do not need an initiation or empowerment to these prayers.  Is that right? I have been doing it. It is has great effects. But if it is tantric practice, won't we need some initiation at least? Can someone help to explain...again. Pardon my ignorance.

What I was told by one of my Lamas is that while you don't necessarily need an empowerment, it is best to at least have a oral transmission and explanation of a specific practice.

For example, today Kyabje Yongya Rinpoche gave the oral transmision and commentary on Gyentse's (Ratna Shugden) long life practice.
Many of us here at Shar Gaden have the Dorje Shugden sogte, but even those who do not can now do this practice if they attended today's teaching.

Losang Tenpa.
Thank you for the clear explanation !

However, for our many friends around the world, who may not have the opportunity to receive explanations or oral transmissions (lung) directly from a teacher, I believe it is still permissible to recite the short prayers as have been laid out on this website, as they are mainly just praises, offerings and mantras. These can be recited without any deep or intricate meditations / visualisations and therefore should not pose any potential harm or confusion.  Just maintain a good motivation and sincere thoughts.

A part of its "secret" nature, means that if you are engaging in the practice, you also make the conscious effort not to speak about it openly or to even mention that you are doing the practice (unless of course your teacher asks you). This is not because the practice is negative or that there is literally a "secret", but is also an excellent training of our minds to remain humble and focused on our practice, and not to disperse our energy by showing off and talking to everyone about it.

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: Why black out Dorje Shugden's face?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2015, 04:38:16 PM »
There had been images of Dorje Shugden at temples whereby his face is covered up.  I have asked why and it is because the wrathful face may frighten the uninitiated.

More details for our understanding in the event we came across such a situation.