Schettini. Gah.

[DharmaDefender]

I was Googling Guru Devotion (as you do) and stumbled upon more crap opinons from Schettini... people need to stop asking him for his opinion (http://www.secularbuddhistassociation.com/2011/12/18/gurudevotion/)

If Westerners are conflicted by the guru thing, it’s because it’s just so unfamiliar. Christian monasticism demands obedience to the abbot, and worship includes surrender to the Almighty, but there’s no call for devotion to another human being. Westerners sometimes fall into the forms of guru devotion so piously that they’re just not believable; clearly, they have some unstated agenda and/or subconscious needs. Whether the guru actually demands it or they simply want it for themselves, they’re held for ransom by the idea that true knowledge comes only through the guru. That’s how I felt as a young monk, when I tried so hard to enter into the spirit of it.

I woke up to this question some years after attending my first tantric ceremonies and after struggling with deep doubts about my commitment. Although my teachers were certainly learned and compassionate, I’d seen them behave as rather ordinary, flawed human beings, basically on the same ground as me. I felt deep guilt over this perception at the time, although today it seems perfectly reasonable and makes me smile at my young self.

Its no wonder he dumped his practices so easily, if thats the way he felt about his lama who is more than qualified for us to take refuge with. He himself admits he had a flawed view about his lama... so how can he not have a flawed view of the practices he received from his lama (http://www.schettini.com/dolgyal.html)? How can people reading his work trust such flawed views? (theres another thread dealing with his views on Dorje Shugden http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1527.0)

The man needs to stop spouting his nonsense before he draws more people away from the Dharma path, never mind Dorje Shugden.

[Ensapa]

Just because he's bitter and disillusioned because he prefers to cling on to his ego than to let it go, does not mean that what he says is right. He is merely spouting his own opinions and bitter opinions about things and conditions. To me, it is not relevant at all to any other Buddhist practitioners because it is just his opinions! Who cares about the opinions of an unenlightened person who is not even a monk about Buddhism? What is he trying to prove? Nothing.

When people see their Gurus, it reminds them of their good qualities but when this guy look at his Gurus, he allows his insecurity to take over…to see his Gurus as not perfect even though it is stated in countless sutras and tantra that the Guru will exhibit human-like tendencies such as displaying "mistakes" to teach the disciples a lesson and educate them, and not appear to be too far away for the disciple to achieve.

It is really about time that someone kind of alert the Buddhist world about such things to clear up misconceptions, especially on the topic of Guru Devotion. It is the most powerful method to transforming the mind, and thus it will be prone to many misunderstandings as the mind does not want to be retrained, naturally, and the mind will always find excuses to slink away from it and not hold Guru Devotion.

With his quagmire of wrong views, again, for people who knows more Dharma knowledge, it is obvious that Schettini knows very little in Tibetan Buddhism, and in that sense, Buddhism as a whole and thus is not credible as a scholar in Buddhism in any sense. Because we do not need another persons' opinion on the Dharma. We can already form our own erroneous opinions without his help.

[Zach]

There are plenty of his kind already about, Spreaders of wrong views who eventually fall into Sutta thumping of Buddha's so called original teachings and even then they trash them with their wrong views. If you have time it would be good to write a thorough refutation of such wrong views. 

[Dolce Vita]

When we are new to a subject, we should be seeking advice or look for people who are successful in the area we want to pursue. If I am doing a research on guru devotion, I will not just take schettini's words, I will look at the teachings of some renown monks on his subject. I will be more convinced of the words of a highly respected monk because his result will be a clear indication of what he follows and practice.

Schettini's behaviour is similar to those who have been writing to condemn Dorje Shugden and husbands practitioners, we are not able to stop them, but what we can do is to provide people with more information like how ds.com team is doing. Sometimes whether a person will pursue or walk away from Dharma really depends on their merits.

[Big Uncle]

Oh well, what he says about the Gurus are real problems that most people faces when they encounter a real authentic Guru. People should already should know that and realize why we have these problems in the first place. It is very nice to intellectualize and idealize Guru devotion but the actual practice requires us to broaden our perspective and sometimes change it completely. Looking at actions from a broader perspective helps and especially looking at the actions of a Guru from a bigger perspective helps us to identify his true intentions - which is to benefit us.

We know that but we prefer to dwell on petty issues that bring us to lose perspective and blame the Guru and his ordinary actions instead. Too bad. There's so much to be had if we only stick it through. Sometimes when our potential is vast, the Guru puts us on a fast track training because he knows we can pull it through if we put our minds towards it.

Anyway, enough intellectual blabber. I think Schettini didn't wanna accept his Lama's training and out of resentment, he doubts the whole teacher-disciple relationship and sort of blame the 'system'. Like what people say, it is not the system, it is the people.

[Lineageholder]

I feel sorry for Schettini, he's very similar to Stephen Batchelor in that he holds very strong wrong views and couldn't trust his Teacher.

They both seem to be making money out of Dharma, though - a very dangerous pursuit indeed.

[yontenjamyang]

I so sorry for Schettini. Gah that he can't see the Guru as the source of all that is good. There are various ways and method in the Lamrim to develop conviction that the Guru is a Buddha.

1) Buddha Vajradhara said that the Guru is a Buddha
2) The Guru performs enlightened actions of a Buddha
3) In these degenerate times the Buddhas continue to work for the benefit of all living beings
4) Appearance are deceptive and our own opinions are unreliable.

Hope this helps. You can have doubt. Don't feel guilty. I am not saying all Guru are your cup of tea. Check him out by his actions. Does it benefit others. If you can't see the benefits he may not be for you because of your view. Too bad! Just plough on and meditate on these. Soon you will realise the truth.

[Ensapa]

I realized that he is writing to appease and appeal to those Buddhists who think that they can and should choose the "dharma path that is right for them". Yes you can choose, but not forever. A lot of Buddhists these days tend to think that they have the freedom to choose whatever teachings that suit them….taking up fragments of what they like and discard what they do not like, and if a particular sutra challenges their understanding, they will immediately dismiss that as inauthentic.

Yes, there is a new breed of people who think that they are smarter than the texts, and that they have the special ability to discern the Buddha's teachings from cultural influences. They are afraid that impure teachings will lead them to nowhere, as they need the purest of the pure teachings and they reject all other current lineages' teachings due to "impurity". They then form their own conclusions of what appeals to them the most and seems the easiest to understand.

I have met a few people of this sort before. They claim that the Buddha only taught them on how to calm their mind and nothing else, and everything else such as compassion and wisdom are just additions done by others and not by the Buddha. One person I met said that he holds on to Theravarda as the true teachings -- he proudly said that he does not need to be taught by a monk when I told him about Nagajurna's work.

From all of these people, i see a common theme: they want to reach out for something that they cannot relate to, that is very high up there, that everyone accepts, that is free from criticism..they are so paranoid and afraid of following something that is "diluted" that they discard all other interpretations and only go for the one that they want. If that is not delusion at its highest form, I don't know what is.

[kris]

I would think that Schettini's thought is quite common actually. The difference between him and others is that Schettini did actually speak about it, while others don't.

Well, once upon a time, I also cannot accept Guru Devotion. However, upon attended class on Lamrim, I am convinced the Guru Devotion is the quick path to enlightenment.

Before going into the Guru/disciple relationship, the disciple should check out the Guru (it is in the Lamrim). Once disciple accept the Guru, it should be 100% all the way. Since we are not enlightened, there will be times where our mind is disturbed and will want to run away from the Guru. That's when we need the Dharma Protector practice to guide us in the correct path.

There will be a lot of "Schettini" around, in different forms and shape. So, are you ready?

[Ensapa]

I would think that Schettini's thought is quite common actually. The difference between him and others is that Schettini did actually speak about it, while others don't.

Well, once upon a time, I also cannot accept Guru Devotion. However, upon attended class on Lamrim, I am convinced the Guru Devotion is the quick path to enlightenment.

Before going into the Guru/disciple relationship, the disciple should check out the Guru (it is in the Lamrim). Once disciple accept the Guru, it should be 100% all the way. Since we are not enlightened, there will be times where our mind is disturbed and will want to run away from the Guru. That's when we need the Dharma Protector practice to guide us in the correct path.

There will be a lot of "Schettini" around, in different forms and shape. So, are you ready?

For me, Guru devotion sounded very logical and was something that was natural. I am a chinese person and Guru devotion is already something that is expected from you as one of the first things that the chinese is educated about goes something like "Teacher for a day, hundred days of gratitude" meaning, we own the person who teaches us even for a day many years of gratitude.

It is not really just a chinese thing as the koreans, indians, japanese, vietamense etc and other asian countries tend to be taught Guru devotion too as they too know the value of a teacher. And they are talking about samsaric teachers who teach only samsaric subjects, and because the teacher knows more that is why the student must follow the teacher all the way.

In martial arts schools, or even in taoist and buddhist temples, the teacher takes the place of the mother and the father when it comes to taking care of the children which is why they are very, very highly respected and people brought up in to those communities or situations automatically know how to apply Guru devotion. But sadly with the rise of western ideas, this value is lost in many "modern" asians.

Schettinis are basically people who are bitter and insecure about their own Dharma practice so they dare not place their faith or devotion in another human being. To "tackle" them is really to make them see the real reason why they reject the kindness of others but they will publish a lot of theories and writings to distract others from that fact. Interesting how people work.

[Dondrup Shugden]

The heading of this post caught my eye and on reading find it interesting as it is a self analysis as to where we are in our Guru Devotion.

A point of view although wrong we may have or may not have entertained same within us.  Good for us to always learn and ensure we are on the right path with our spiritual practice.

This story illustrates the wrong views that many others may have gathered and nourished about Dorje Shugden.  With wisdom and reflection, true faithful practitioners should read and align our mind to the right views and practice.

Do not waste our lives entertaining wrong views.  This precious human life is short and we must make it precious.