H.H. Gaden Trisur Rinpoche defects!!

[dsnowlion]

I heard today of recent happenings within all of the Gelug monasteries in Mundgod and Sera in Bylakuppe.  Basically in order for Buddhas teaching to remain certain things must be observed, namely Sojong (regular gathering and confession), yarne (summer retreat), etc.  The Loseling abbot asked the Gomang abbot if he was observing the Sojong and he said no, because in order to do that monks within 50 miles (whatever the exact rule is) must attend.  Because now Shar Ganden is separate they can't attend, so doing Sojong would be perfunctory.  Afterwards the Loseling abbot inquired with the older monks at Drepung about this and there seemed a consensus that many wanted to leave.  Also with the former Ganden Tripa many older monks are now leaving Shartse and joining Shar Ganden.

Given this the abbots met with the Dalai Lama and brought this matter, namely that the root of actual Buddhism is not even being observed, and his face got quite red.  Someone even asked him to say something actually related to Buddhism.  The DL said that his ban on Shugden was temporary and had some kind of reason.  But all this information comes second or third hand, is there someone that can clarify this situation?

This is WONDERFUL news... i mean the part that more and more monks are migrating or wanting to leave to SHAR GADEN and standing up for what they believe and know is TRUE! Just like what the we were all hoping it'll do with Gaden Trisur's move Thank you for this Hot GOSSIP Trinley! Although it would be great if someone can verify this??

In regards to what the Dalai Lama said... if he really did say it - well wow! This sort of gives a certain level of confirmation to the speculation of our heavy debate on the Dalai Lama's main agenda. Or maybe the TGIE saw too many of our postings on this possibility and decided to switch their tone? haha. (although some may not agree still). Do I sense a lighter grip on this Ban issue? I sure do hope so.

I cannot imagine how it must be like for the Rinpoche's who practice DS secretly in Gaden itself. I wonder how Zong Rinpoche is doing?

Love & Light,
DS

[kokoliam59]

See video:   http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1010

The term of office for the current Gaden Tripa has finished. He has successfully finished his term. He has the title now of His Holiness Gaden Trisur Rinpoche Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal. He primarily resides in France although he has a ladrang in Gaden Shartse, Nepal and Yangthing, Tibet.


Gaden Tripa-Gaden throne holder
Gaden Trisur-Gaden's ex-throne holder Emeritus

Gaden Trisur Rinpoche belongs to the Dokhang Khangtsen house of Gaden Shartse Monastery formerly. He studied and recieved his geshe degree in Gaden Shartse. Later he became Gaden Tripa.

Gaden Trisur Rinpoche has never journeyed to Gaden Shartse Monastery to swear in or take a oath that he gives up Dorje Shugden. In a stunning turn around, he has officially left Gaden Shartse Monastery and joined SHAR GADEN MONASTERY similar with other elite lamas such as Trijang Rinpoche and Dromo Geshe Rinpoche recently.

Gaden Trisur's household (ladrang) all together with HH Gaden Trisur Rinpoche have joined Shar Gaden Monastery.

It is a stunning and 'shocking' move as Gaden Trisur Rinpoche is a very high ranking Lama within the Gelug Heirachy.

Gaden Trisur's assistant was sent to speak with the current Gaden Shartse Abbot that he is leaving Shartse Monastery and joining Shar Gaden. It is exactly what happened to Trijang Rinpoche and his ladrang in Gaden.

So two big ladrangs from Shartse has left and joined Shar Gaden.

Gaden Trisur's throne that is in Shartse will remain in Shartse just like Trijang Rinpoche's throne although he has left Shartse Monastery completely.

HH Gaden Trisur Rinpoche was the student of the previous Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang.


This eventful move will embarrass the Tibetan Government in exile and also 'teach' them a lesson. That not everyone is afraid of them and there are high ranking lamas who will stand up for what they believe. With time, more and more monks will defect to Shar Gaden Monastery because they remain loyal to their lineage, lamas, and practices.

In Sera, Gaden, Drepung, Tashilungpo, Gyuto and Gyurme Monasteries take a fake oath as they put it to temporarily quiet down the Tibetan Government and their unjust/undemocratic persecution of Dorje Shugden devotees.
They stand up in front of the congregation(if they don't, then expulsion from the Monastery) and read the words that 'swear' they abandon Dorje Shugden and will not be associated with Dorje Shugden followers in any manner. The monks say they just read the words and do not feel anything from their heart. It is pure persecution. Many monks dare not say or speak out against the Tibetan government, but they are in that opinion. With Gaden Trisur's recent move, it will give strength to many who are persecuted up till today.

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ADDITIONAL CONFIRMATION: [/u] Tuesday Jan 26,2010

Half hour ago, a phone call was made to HH Trisur Rinpoche's personal assistant to confirm their entry into Shar Gaden.
Trisur Rinpoche's personal assistant replied a firm YES.

His Holiness Gaden Trisur Rinpoche Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal who was the 101st Throne Holder of Tsongkapa HAS OFFICIALLY ENTERED SHAR GADEN MONASTERY and left Gaden Shartse Monastery! He openly practices Dorje Shugden now!

He gives us so much strength, hope and inspiration. We thank HH Trisur Rinpoche from the bottom of our hearts. With tears streaming down my face as I type this to everyone here.

HH Trisur Rinpoche's assistant said that he went to meet Gaden Shartse's current abbot and told the abbot that their province in Tibet, their lamas, their lineage, their monasteries in Tibet all practice Dorje Shugden and that they would not be able to give up the practice.

HH Trisur Rinpoche CANNOT GIVE UP THE PRACTICE OF DORJE SHUGDEN. HH TRISUR RINPOCHE COMPLETED HIS 7 YEAR TERM OF OFFICE AS GADEN TRIPA (HEAD OF GELUG) AND NOW THAT HE IS A TRISUR, he will resign from Gaden Shartse Monastery and join Shar Gaden Monastery.

HH Trisur Rinpoche had to wait this long until the term of office as Gaden Tripa completed to MAKE THIS MOVE BECAUSE IF HE HAD MADE THIS MOVE EARLIER, THE DALAI LAMA WOULD HAVE REMOVED HIM FROM OFFICE. And that would not be good for the Gelug on the whole. NOW THAT HE HAS FINISHED HIS TERM, HE CAN DO WHAT HE LIKES. NO ONE CAN TOUCH HIM, DISTURB HIM OR DISGRACE HIS POSITION. INCREDIBLE PLANNING. THIS WAS RELAYED BY HIS PERSONAL ASSISTANT!

HH Gaden Trisur Rinpoche is residing in France currently but there are rumours he might visit Shar Gaden this year. Let's hope HH Trisur Rinpoche makes a historical visit to Shar Gaden. That would make a further huge statement.

The Tibetan Govt has been silent. No comments so far whatsoever.

The abbot of Gaden Shartse had nothing to say unsurprisingly. The new abbot of Gaden is said to have no strength and will power. The new abbot is VERY FRIGHTENED of Dalai Lama and Tibetan Govt it is very well known. [/b]

[kokoliam59]

Dear TK,
God bless you for bringing this joyous news. What more do i need now? :-) My spirit is resurrected.This means so much to me in this confused era.
may the pure dharma of Je rinpoche flourish like waxing moon and may His Holiness the Gaden Trisur Rinpoche live long!! 

DS was very popular in Tibet and now he is even more well known throughout the world. Millions in China today worships the Protector. The controversy between H.H Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden has even made DS more famous. DS is a celebrity! Indirectly H.H has in fact promoted the protector to the world. H.H has no objections towards Gaden Trisur Rinpoche joining the Shar Gaden.

[Lineageholder]

I find this very strange.  The Dalai Lama has said that worshipping Dorje Shugden is spirit worship that breaks your refuge vows and causes Buddhism to degenerate, therefore, as far as this is concerned, surely the monks who practise Dorje Shugden wouldn't even be Buddhists, let alone monks? If he really believes this, why doesn't he say "We don't need to worry about the Shugden 'monks' participating in Sojong because they're not even Buddhist, let alone monks". End of problem!
 
Everything he has said and done regarding the Dorje Shugden controversy is completely illogical and he frequently contradicts his own position.  I was listening to an mp3 introduction to Aryadeva's 400 by Alex Berzin that had been given as a prequel to the Dalai Lama giving a commentary to the text.  Berzin said that the Dalai Lama loves all this prasangika reasoning and that when he explains texts like this, he likes to give very deep and profound commentary.  If the Dalai Lama has this facility with prasangika reasoning, I'm surprised he can bear to make the illogical and inconsistent statements that have been basis of the Dorje Shugden ban from day one.

Whoever he is, he's full of contradictions!

[Lineageholder]

DS was very popular in Tibet and now he is even more well known throughout the world. Millions in China today worships the Protector.

Where's the evidence that millions in China worship Dorje Shugden?

The controversy between H.H Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden has even made DS more famous. DS is a celebrity! Indirectly H.H has in fact promoted the protector to the world.

It's good that Dorje Shugden's name is becoming famous because, as my Teacher said, even if people hear his name they get blessings but let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a BAN and the actual number of Tibetan practitioners of this Deity have reduced.

H.H has no objections towards Gaden Trisur Rinpoche joining the Shar Gaden.

When did the Dalai Lama say this?  Do you have a source?

[LosangKhyentse]

I was told in Mundgod that all of the Gelug monasteries met together for Sojong, so excluding Shar Gaden is precisely the issue the Gomang abbot was raising, namely it was a contradiction to exclude them.  So it would precisely be a schism that has resulted, or perhaps even worse a break in the continuity of the Sojong which could result in a technical loss of vows for refusing to participate, right?  Most abbots and older monks in these monasteries are students of the late Dzemey Rinpoche, and it sounds like they're defecting the rule not to associate with the 'spirit worshippers'.  This situation may be the catalyst needed for this problem finally to come to a head, and for the DL to end the ban out of simple necessity.  But perhaps I am naive, and following the actual Buddhist teachings is no longer important.

From the bottom of my heart, I sure hope you are right. I am just waiting and holding my breath EVERY SINGLE DAY hoping that something as sudden and drastic such as the ban is removed happens. That some catalyst will happen to make this illoigical ban go away.

With respect, I ask you Trinley Kalsang, to keep up with your contacts and let us know what develops from this in Mungdog. Everything that has/is happening is illogical. So lifting the ban would be illogical, put that would follow the mode of how things have been running anyway.

Gomang Abbot mentioning this is this year? Recently?


tk

[dsnowlion]

I was told in Mundgod that all of the Gelug monasteries met together for Sojong, so excluding Shar Gaden is precisely the issue the Gomang abbot was raising, namely it was a contradiction to exclude them.  So it would precisely be a schism that has resulted, or perhaps even worse a break in the continuity of the Sojong which could result in a technical loss of vows for refusing to participate, right?  Most abbots and older monks in these monasteries are students of the late Dzemey Rinpoche, and it sounds like they're defecting the rule not to associate with the 'spirit worshippers'.  This situation may be the catalyst needed for this problem finally to come to a head, and for the DL to end the ban out of simple necessity.  But perhaps I am naive, and following the actual Buddhist teachings is no longer important.

wow if this really happens it will be like an explosion of Dorje Shugden practitioners and Lamas coming out from the woodworks! I cannot wait and I PRAY everyday this crazy BAN will just end and everyone can just do their practice, wear their DS pendant, T-Shirts and do prayers without having to look over their shoulder! Friends can be friends again. When this happen I wonder will Shar Gaden still continue? I think they probably would and we can all visit them without any fear someone's reporting us!!!

One thing is for sure Dalai Lama in consistently inconsistent!!!
Perhaps this is his style of giving us roller coaster ride which actually indirectly tested our patience, tolerance, ego, trust in our root Guru and the Protector. 

[Zhalmed Pawo]

One thing is for sure Dalai Lama in consistently inconsistent!!!

Perhaps this is his style of giving us roller coaster ride which actually indirectly tested our patience, tolerance, ego, trust in our root Guru and the Protector. 

Like when God tested Job?

Afterwards of course, it was seen by all that Job indeed had faith, and God was still praised as Great, but what about all those who were hurt and killed during this nice little test? So hey, the roller coaster ride was sure a nice boost for both Job and God, but something surely was at miss, or was it. Perhaps. Maybe?

 

[WisdomBeing]

If we don't hold onto some hope the ban will be lifted and the DL declare his previous statements as wrong this is going to stain the Gelug tradition permanently decades or centuries into the future because people will reference his ideas as justifications.  If he clarifies now, that will be taken as definitive and lots of arguing and division will be spared.  Yes, there is still irreparable damage but better to fix something while there is time still and prevent future difficulties.  If he does clarify that still doesn't mean the ban in the first place was justified, but rather I'd be willing to let some things go just to spare future difficulties.

If there is no hope for this then there is no point talking further at all....

i believe there is hope because it has been predicted. So it will definitely come to pass - it is just a matter of when. Many highly attained beings have indicated that the time is coming very soon so i think we will see history unfolding before our very eyes.

Perhaps it is the upcoming Dehli court case which will make the Dalai Lama rescind the ban... who knows. I just feel it in my bones that Dorje Shugden's snowlion is pawing the ground impatiently, huffing and puffing and waiting to dance across the skies!

[honeydakini]

If we don't hold onto some hope the ban will be lifted and the DL declare his previous statements as wrong this is going to stain the Gelug tradition permanently decades or centuries into the future because people will reference his ideas as justifications.  If he clarifies now, that will be taken as definitive and lots of arguing and division will be spared.  Yes, there is still irreparable damage but better to fix something while there is time still and prevent future difficulties.  If he does clarify that still doesn't mean the ban in the first place was justified, but rather I'd be willing to let some things go just to spare future difficulties.

If there is no hope for this then there is no point talking further at all....

i believe there is hope because it has been predicted. So it will definitely come to pass - it is just a matter of when. Many highly attained beings have indicated that the time is coming very soon so i think we will see history unfolding before our very eyes.

Perhaps it is the upcoming Dehli court case which will make the Dalai Lama rescind the ban... who knows. I just feel it in my bones that Dorje Shugden's snowlion is pawing the ground impatiently, huffing and puffing and waiting to dance across the skies!

I think one of 3 things could happen:

1) DL says definitively that the ban is lifted (whew)
2) one day, it just becomes okay again without DL expressly saying anything - this seems to happen within the Tibetan world. For example, it was a TERRIBLE thing for tibetans to go to Taiwan, and high lamas got into big shit for travelling to Taiwan... the one day DL himself makes a little trip there and now it's totally a-okay and nobody says anything anymore
3) nobody says anything, but soon, the anti-ds people just won't be heard anymore. This may happen when the Dalai lama passes away, for example. In the meantime, many DS groups, monasteries and teachers are gaining more and more influence in the world - not in a worldly sense, but in respect, even both the monastic and lay communities; in the number of Dharma centres or monasteries they have in the world; in their ability to teach the Dharma. In this increasingly educated world where people are encouraged and WANT to think for themselves, they are more likely to want to follow these lamas instead of the outdated TGIE who keep faffing about!

In a way, this is happening already. Many DS practitioners are not letting this issue sway their faith or practice and in fact have become stronger and more determined to uphold and preserve the lineage. They are becoming great beacons of faith to other DS practitioners... and so the good will and good energy spreads. people recognise truth and goodness when they see it, which they will most definitely see in DS practitioners and their wonderful, beautiful, truthful, kind lamas. That will be the greatest thing to quash the ban.

[Rihanna]

This is one of the best news I have read in a long long time. HH Ganden Trisur's defecting to Shar Gaden gives strength and hope to Dorje Shugden practitioners who have been experiencing violence, threats and destruction of lives by CTA. This move will give courage to many to practice purely without fear. My respect and admiration for HH Ganden Trisur Rinpoche grew even more as he is not afraid to stand up and keep on practicing the pure Buddhist Tradition of what he received from his teacher because I have heard of Lamas of his stature usually like to stay within CTA's policies.  It would be an understatement to say this but my sincere thank you to you, HH Ganden Trisur Rinpoche!