Quest for Genuine Autonomy in Tibet

[WisdomBeing]

I thought it's interesting that in this article below, HH the Dalai Lama says that the Tibetan Government in Exile (TGIE) has been seeking AUTONOMY since the '70s so it cannot be that Dorje Shugden has harmed the cause for Tibet's independence.


His Holiness Speaks about Faith on Chinese People and Quest for Genuine Autonomy
http://www.tibet.net/en/index.php?id=1972.&articletype=flash&rmenuid=morenews&amps&tab=1#TabbedPanels1

[Sunday, 15 November 2010, 6:19 p.m.]

Hiroshima, Japan: His Holiness the Dalai Lama gave interview to Time Magazine and Kategaho, a Japanese magazine on Saturday morning. In the interview, His Holiness answered and gave many clarifications on various questions raised.
 
Answering to a question about Tibet's independence and autonomy, His Holiness said that our stand has been very clear since early 1970s, "in fact, during Mao's time, when I returned back from Beijing, I was full of enthusiasm and hope. I even said I want to join the communist party. The 17-point agreement was also based on 'one country, two system'. But Chinese government never kept their promise. By 1959, things became very difficult and we were forced to escape Tibet.
 
"After all the rehabilitation process, around 1970s, our people seriously discussed about our stand, and we agreed on genuine autonomy as a most  feasible approach. Since then our stand has been very clear, we negotiated with Chinese government several times without any result. Special meeting was organised in November 2008, to discuss the future course of action, although there were many who voiced for full independence, majority agreed on genuine autonomy. So we are not seeking political separation, but we need meaningful autonomy to practice our culture and religion," His Holiness said.
 
On his faith and hope, His Holiness said that when Hu Jintao assumed the Chinese leadership, "I was little optimistic, but nothing changed. In 2008, I said my faith in Chinese government has become thinner, but my faith and hope with Chinese public has increased. Support from Chinese intellectuals is tremendous.

I am impressed. I very much agree with Hu Jintao's 'harmonious society' concept, but harmony depends on trust and respect. It cannot be forced through use of fear and violence. His goal is good, method is wrong." said His Holiness.
 
Asked for his comment on Liu Xiaobo winning Nobel Peace Prize and his imprisonment, His Holiness said he very much support Mr Liu Xiaobo, "he has called for open society, transparency and democracy in China, this is good for China in the long run. When Liu Xiaobo came up with Charter-08, I supported it. This Nobel Peace Prize award is international recognition of his effort, it is not about toppling Chinese government. Even Premier Wen Jiabao said about the freedom and democracy. This is good sign," explained His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
 
About the growing sense of frustration among the people, their demand for independence and the Tibetan issue after him, His Holiness said Chinese leadership thinks that Tibetan issue will have a natural death after him. "This is wrong, Tibet has a long political, cultural and religious history, its language is very rich. There is a growing sense of Tibetan identity. Dalai Lama's institution is 500 years old only, whereas Tibetan history goes back to more than 3000 years. And now, we have an elected leadership based on democratic principle."
 
In the afternoon, His Holiness attended the second day of the World Summit of Nobel Peace Laureates, in which discussion and debate was done on - Progress towards a world without nuclear weapon and consequences of the use of nuclear weapons.
 
On nuclear disarmament, His Holiness the Dalai Lama said, "external disarmament is very necessary, but ultimately it is related to inner disarmament. So long as anger and hatred remain, external disarmament will a have little effect. We also need to think seriously about the concept of 'we and they', this is the source of many problems. We need to work on a way to include all the 7 billion people of this world into the category of 'we'," said His Holiness.
 
The Nobel Laureates further discussed on the world without nuclear weapon and drafted Hiroshima declaration, which will be announced Sunday to the delegates and the media.       
 
--Report filed by Tsewang Gyalpo Arya, Office of Tibet, Japan

[Vajraprotector]

Dear WisdomBeing,
Thank you for sharing this. In the past, I thought there was merely misinterpretation of "independence" and "autonomy".

I believe that saying Dorje Shugden harmed the cause for Tibet's independence is another skillful means of His Holiness to give logical reasons that are not the real reasons.

For example, His Holiness said that Dorje Shugden has a long history of antagonistic attitude to the Dalai Lamas and the Tibetan Government they have headed since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama. Two important points mentioned were:

1. His Holiness identified the 5th and 13th Dalai Lamas as having specifically spoken out against Dorje Shugden as a threat "to the welfare of beings in general and the Tibetan government headed by the Dalai Lamas in particular".

2. His Holiness stated that in light of the current difficult situation endured by the Tibetan people, it is particularly important to resist the worship of Dorje Shugden as a potentially divisive practice.

So wouldn't the problem of the ban be solved if His Holiness doesn't head the Tibetan government? Because then the so called antagonistic attitude towards the Dalai Lama would end. But is TGIE strong enough to get independence on their own without His Holiness? Even WITH His Holiness, they didn't manage to get independence.


Sorry to say, I am of the same opinion as the Chinese leadership, who thinks that Tibetan issue will have a natural death after His Holiness' leadership. After three decades of "negotiations about negotiations" between the Dalai Lama's envoys and Beijing, there has not been much progress.  Also, no formal negotiations have taken place for a long time and it doesn't seem like it will happen in the near future.

[Vajraprotector]

What does everybody think re the Karmapa becoming the successor of His Holiness? HIghly possible? Would Karmapa be able to be the 'replacement' of His Holiness the Dalai Lama as the spiritual and political leader?

[Helena]

There will never be another charismatic powerful figure like the Dalai Lama if His Holiness is no longer around. Because His Holiness has spent a great deal of time, over lifetimes, to be exact to build HIS image and reputation - plus winning the Nobel Peace Prize, etc.

There can never be a 'replacement'. Sorry to say, and I am sure the Karmapa is a another great being. But it just would not be the same.

Things will certainly change. Tibetan Buddhism may not be what it used to be. And that is not necessarily a bad thing.

As long as Dharma wins, and more people are connected with the Dharma and Dharma takes root in places that were not possible before, then whatever else that has come to pass or will need to come into being will be necessary.

Usually, it is the process of change or transition that causes much suffering to everyone because change is very difficult for many. Unfamiliar things will come into light and what we have long cherished may be thrown out and be totally irrelevant overnight. It is very scary but at the same time, very necessary.

If we can endure this challenging process with good motivation and without causing more bad karma, then we will see that a greater and more beneficial result will unfold.

As shown in history - without very challenging process of change and transition, better things cannot come into being.

The time may be ripe for a spiritual revival - the era of the great King Dorje Shugden.

[Lineageholder]

I don't care who's in charge as long as there is religious freedom and true non-sectarianism.

[WisdomBeing]

What does everybody think re the Karmapa becoming the successor of His Holiness? HIghly possible? Would Karmapa be able to be the 'replacement' of His Holiness the Dalai Lama as the spiritual and political leader?

Interestingly enough, I just read this article by Norma Levine:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/01/karmapa-exile-india-political-game

In December 1999 the 17th Karmapa – holder of the oldest and possibly the most revered reincarnate lineage in Tibetan Buddhism – leapt from the balcony of his monastery in Tibet into a waiting landcruiser to begin an epic 900 mile journey. He must have thought he was escaping Chinese control to gain freedom in exile in India. In fact, he was entering a labyrinth even more convoluted then the one he left behind.

The Karmapa had unwittingly become a key player in the complicated political game of Tibetan Buddhism under the Chinese in 1992 when at eight years old he became the first reincarnation to be recognised by both the Dalai Lama and the Chinese government.

He has now been living in extreme confinement for over 10 years. Only once was he allowed to leave India, in 2008 when permission was finally given for him to visit the US. Time, Newsweek and the New York Times, all carried major stories, hailing him as a significant future leader.

But in March 2010, the Indian government, having initially indicated they would allow a five-week European tour, did an abrupt about-turn refusing permission.

Why is this happening?

The Karmapas predate the Dalai Lamas by over 400 years. Unlike the Dalai Lama's dual role of spiritual leader and de facto king, the Karmapas have always been purely religious teachers revered for their enlightened powers. But the escape from Tibet on the eve of the new millennium into the welcoming arms of the Dalai Lama immediately made the 17th Karmapa into a poster boy for the Tibet cause.

The Karmapa's intention had been to receive the oral instructions of his lineage from his spiritual masters in India and to reclaim his monastic seat in Sikkim where his predecessor had settled in 1959 on his escape from Tibet. But on arriving in India he found himself banned from both his teacher's monastery near Dharamsala and Sikkim. The Dalai Lama promptly housed him in temporary quarters in two rooms at the top of Gyuto monastery. The Dalai Lama and the Karmapa belong to different schools of Tibetan Buddhism. It was like housing the archbishop of Canterbury at the Vatican. Confined to a small space, the young boy seemed like a caged lion, as he paced the balcony gazing towards the snow-capped mountains of his homeland.

Because of his close association with the Dalai Lama, he was increasingly hailed as his successor.

Headlines like "The new Dalai Lama" and "The world's next top Lama" sparked intense speculation.

"Clearly a serious and exceptionally intelligent 15-year-old. Few can doubt his credentials as a future Tibetan leader," wrote the Observer in 2001. "He is the only … reincarnation, currently recognised by both the Chinese and the Dalai Lama. He could be the hinge on which relations between Tibetans and China swing in a new direction," claimed Newsweek in 2009.

This speculation put him at the heart of a political game with the Chinese who are determined to wrest control of Tibetan Buddhism after the passing of the Dalai Lama. The situation is further complicated by Indian government suspicions that the Karmapa may have been sent to India to destabilise Sikkim, which borders China, and which China claims as its own. The machinations of the Tibetan exile government to hang onto a charismatic figure capable of uniting the Tibetans after the demise of the aging Dalai Lama, stirs yet more political intrigue into the seething cauldron.

However, in the 900 years of their history the Karmapas have been entirely spiritual, even as gurus to the emperors of China in the 12th century. "For … 900 years," he told the Times of India in March 2009, "the Karmapa has been a very apolitical figure … who has concentrated solely on spiritual leadership, not involved in any way with governmental leadership. So I think it would be very difficult to change that historical pattern overnight and turn the role of the Karmapa into something more than strictly a spiritual teacher."

When I met him in November, he reiterated that his spiritual role required freedom of movement. "Traditionally the Karmapa travelled a lot to different places to meet the people who wanted to see him. Ever since I became the Karmapa I lost my personal freedom and choice but I have gained the opportunity of benefiting others. But sometimes I cannot play the role of Karmapa anymore. I don't have the right environment."

What distresses him is to be caught in the game of politics. The Indian government have offered no explanation for denying him permission to travel. When they cancelled the 2010 Europe tour, word leaked out that the tour was "too big and for too long". Nonetheless, simpler itineraries over shorter periods were also turned down without explanation.

Now for the first time he categorically disclaims any possibility of succession to the Dalai Lama. Clearly the strain was becoming intolerable.

"There is already a system in place for the Dalai Lama's regency. It is not necessary to already be an important public figure in order to become the regent, if one has the capability. I have the responsibility of being the spiritual leader of a lineage and I don't need extra responsibility. I cannot do beyond what a human being can do. The name "Karmapa" means the one who takes responsibility for all the buddhas' activities. This is overwhelming enough. I don't need more."

• A two-day ceremony to mark the 900th anniversary of the Karmapa lineage will be held in Bodh Gaya, India on 8 December

[beggar]

In the light of this article, it is also interesting to consider the idea that actually, it was BECAUSE the TGIE had failed to achieve independence for their people that the whole DS issue was blown up at that time and distracted the people.

It turned their attention away from the failings of the government and pinpointed the blame on DS instead. Suddenly, apparently DS was said to be destroying the chances for independence and for causing sectarianism and disharmony among the four lineages and the Tibetan people. A convenient scapegoat for drawing everyone's attention away from the TGIE and placing the blame on a totally external force. A sort of very twisted sort of deus ex machina.

So then, how to get ourselves out of this mess?

Well, there is also a change in tone now - that the TGIE and Dalai Lama had only been trying to secure automony means they go back on their word and also their explanation about the "evilness" of DS. This is not surprising. There is a lot of backtracking, reasons changing, and even a kind of laxing on the part of the Dalai Lama (he is telling people to "check things out for themselves" now and examine his advice by logic, instead of the tone used before which was much stronger).

[LosangKhyentse]

Tibet will never get autonomy. Tibet will never gain independence. Only Dorje Shugden can give them a glimmer of hope toward preservation of Buddha Dharma in Tibet itself.

After this Dalai Lama passes, all the Tibetans in Tibet will become Chinese. Their voices for independence will fade. All the Tibetans in India who have money will make a scramble to countries outside of India. The Tibetans living abroad and outside of Tibet will lose their language, culture and become mixed into the mainstream culture of their adopted country like every other immigrant. The Tibetans in India will just worry about survival.

Tibetan Buddhism will ironically truly exist outside of most Tibetans. Dorje Shugden will grow in reputation and not any lama in the future will have the power to speak against him. The Dalai Lama did this. Watch as the 'show' unfolds.

So let's talk about everything related to Dorje Shugden's practice, lineage, lamas, centres, nature and benefits on this forum to start the education of the new wave of dharma practitioners who will have heard of Dorje Shugden and want to know more. 

Homage to Dorje Shugden who although intangible to the untrained perciever arising from Dharmakaya has become tangible by someone in rupakaya named Dalai Lama. It will be exciting times ahead. So let's keep working hard here to make it happen.

TK