MY POSITION ON DORJE SHUGDEN By Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan

[CaliMonk]

In response to Wisdom Being (and for the edification of all), The person who "demanded" I un-friend WB was Ralph Herranz of TDL Italy and, yes, I deleted someone.. it just wasn't WB.. In response to Lineage Holder:  In a way, what you say is true though, for me, what HHDL thinks of me or my practice is of zero concern. He is not my Root-Lama, not one of my empowering Lamas and not the head of my Order, though you might be surprised that most people do not realize this. In the Tibetan Buddhist Hierarchy the Panchen Lama holds a higher position ( a result of the Older-Brother/Younger-Brother  motif in Tibetan culture and literature) I do respect him as the embodiment of Chenrezi and as a High Lama but what he thinks of me personally concerns me not in the least.

[CaliMonk]

I should add that I feel strongly that Mr Herranz of TDL Italy has a steadfast right to feel as he does and to express those feelings in any manner he chooses. I took issue with the manner of his approach. He made disparaging remarks about the character and motivations of another and insisted upon my taking sides, choosing which to delete.  In my case, he just picked the wrong person to try to intimidate. Anyone who knows me would've known better.
There is, in many cases, great anger on both sides of this issue, some justifiable perhaps, certainly understandable. I know that, for many Tibetans whom I know, this is nothing less than a betrayal of what they've been taught to believe in and respect by someone they've been taught to believe in and respect. Talk about being caught between the proverbial rock & hard place. In many ways, this is much more tragic for Tibetans than for Westerners. Our culture accepts the propriety of publicly expressing oneself, even if it's to tell someone to kiss our ass. There are those who choose to publicly express their dismay, displeasure, outrage, in the manner they choose, as well they should. I do not pass judgment on others for the role they assume in this matter. We each must do what our consciences (and, when applicable, our Lamas) tell us, compel us, to do.
It is the teaching and instruction of my Tsawa Lama, Chodag Tulku, that guides me. Anything that does not accord with that is rejected. I do not apply the standards taught me by my Lama to anyone else. I neither expect anyone to live up to my expectations of them (since I have none) nor to act upon the advice given by my Lama.

[Zach]

Well Venerable I have to say I was very appreciative that someone actually came out with a bit of sense.
It amazes me some can treat their Dharma brothers and sisters in such a way contray to Buddhas intentions.
Anways thank you for holding the neutral ground its refreshing to see 

[Ensapa]

I should add that I feel strongly that Mr Herranz of TDL Italy has a steadfast right to feel as he does and to express those feelings in any manner he chooses. I took issue with the manner of his approach. He made disparaging remarks about the character and motivations of another and insisted upon my taking sides, choosing which to delete.  In my case, he just picked the wrong person to try to intimidate. Anyone who knows me would've known better.
There is, in many cases, great anger on both sides of this issue, some justifiable perhaps, certainly understandable. I know that, for many Tibetans whom I know, this is nothing less than a betrayal of what they've been taught to believe in and respect by someone they've been taught to believe in and respect. Talk about being caught between the proverbial rock & hard place. In many ways, this is much more tragic for Tibetans than for Westerners. Our culture accepts the propriety of publicly expressing oneself, even if it's to tell someone to kiss our ass. There are those who choose to publicly express their dismay, displeasure, outrage, in the manner they choose, as well they should. I do not pass judgment on others for the role they assume in this matter. We each must do what our consciences (and, when applicable, our Lamas) tell us, compel us, to do.
It is the teaching and instruction of my Tsawa Lama, Chodag Tulku, that guides me. Anything that does not accord with that is rejected. I do not apply the standards taught me by my Lama to anyone else. I neither expect anyone to live up to my expectations of them (since I have none) nor to act upon the advice given by my Lama.

Thank you so much, Calimonk. Your words are very inspiring especially at degenerative times like these. It is quite rare these days for people to listen only to their lama and act accordingly, without letting others influence their decisions. Most people these days would not hesitate to give up their teacher if they so much heard a negative rumor about their teacher and that has not even been proven as true yet. For you to actually stick to your own principles and not believe in the rumors of others is indeed, something very inspiring on many levels. Why should we allow others to dictate who we can accept as friends and who we cannot accept as friends, other than our root Guru? Are these people responsible for our social life and for our spiritual progress as well? if not, why would they want to dictate the moves of others? Asking others to delete facebook friends that dont align with your own political views is akin to the christian churches who turn away homosexual members or who tell others to forsake relatives who observe traditions. It is a very gross invasion of privacy.

Why would they want to impose their beliefs and views on others, unless of course they are very insecure individuals who need validation from enforcing their beliefs to others as opposed to being firm in what they believe in and acting in accordance with it. Does it mean that they are in fact, insecure about the Dharma that they have to do this to others? If only we had more practitioners like Calimonk/Losang Gyaltsen around, the Dharma everywhere would have grown much more.

[vajratruth]

 I know that, for many Tibetans whom I know, this is nothing less than a betrayal of what they've been taught to believe in and respect by someone they've been taught to believe in and respect. Talk about being caught between the proverbial rock & hard place. In many ways, this is much more tragic for Tibetans than for Westerners. Our culture accepts the propriety of publicly expressing oneself, even if it's to tell someone to kiss our ass. There are those who choose to publicly express their dismay, displeasure, outrage, in the manner they choose, as well they should. I do not pass judgment on others for the role they assume in this matter. We each must do what our consciences (and, when applicable, our Lamas) tell us, compel us, to do.

It is the teaching and instruction of my Tsawa Lama, Chodag Tulku, that guides me. Anything that does not accord with that is rejected. I do not apply the standards taught me by my Lama to anyone else. I neither expect anyone to live up to my expectations of them (since I have none) nor to act upon the advice given by my Lama.

Thank you very much for these wise words Ven Lozang/CaliMonk. They are very good reminders of what a spiritual practice is supposed to be. When we do not have genuine conviction in our spiritual practice, it is easy to get caught in controversies especially when you have capable advocates on each side of the controversy. But when we are practicing true Guru devotion, there is zero confusion in our minds and there is no controversy at all.

At the end of the day, as Ven. Lozang Gyaltsan said, we must do what our conscience and our devotion to our Lama compel us to do, instead of going with what is the more popular, safer and politically correct. When it comes to the Dorje Shugden issue, the popular and politically safe thing to do is to blindly follow the ban imposed by the Dalai Lama. But personally, I have a lot of trouble understanding how anyone can just stop propitiating a deity who have protected them and looked after them for so long, just because it has become unpopular to do so.  This post has helped me to refocus on what is important i.e. not trying to work out how others think but to concentrate on my own practice as instructed by my Guru.

 


 

[beggar]

Hmm this wonderful thread seemed to have gotten buried a while back but i'm glad it's been revived. Been an excellent read.

This especially caught my eye:

It amazes me some can treat their Dharma brothers and sisters in such a way contray to Buddhas intentions.
Anways thank you for holding the neutral ground its refreshing to see 

Rightly said. It has always amazed me that people would claim to be followers and students of the Dalai Lama yet treat another human being, another Buddhist, a fellow Tibetan the way that they have treated Shugden practitioners. Surely, as a student of the Dalai Lama, the spiritual leader of all Tibetan Buddhists and a winner of the nobel peace prize, his followers and supporters would be kinder than that!

Personally, i have not necessarily agreed with the demonstrations either, or shouting out in public that the Dalai Lama is a liar. That I don't think is necessary either and also doesn't reflect well upon the very practice we are trying to protect of our great Dharmapala.

In either case, I have never agreed that acting in ways that may be interpreted in any way as being aggressive or offensive is the way forward in this "battle". We may well be fighting for our cause - whichever side it is that we are on - but is that how we wish to reflect the very people and beings that we are in support of?

is this the image we will lend to the world of how Dalai Lama students are? Or practitioners of Shugden? Or that this is how Buddhists react and act towards each other? The rest of the world is not likely to know the intricacies of the current politics and situation, they will only see Buddhists outside a Dharma teaching, both lay and ordained in a seeming conflict with each other. They will look upon Buddhists and wonder why this is so at odds with what the Buddha's teachings are on compassion, the middle way and patience.

No, we shouldn't let "what other people think" dictate what we do, but in this case it is important for we would be planting right or wrong views of the holy Dharma in people's minds. Is this what we wish to portray of the very religion, path and the three jewels that we are trying to protect and promote to others? How we react to adversities like this ban is as much about protecting the minds of the millions out there, as it is about protecting our faith.

[samayakeeper]

 "My Lama said that as a practitioner and a monastic, I am to avoid the mixing of politics and Dharma. It is always disastrous, always poisons both."

If everyone were to practice what is correctly mentioned here, the issue on the ban would not have grown into such huge proportion. Alas, unfortunately, it was not so.


In many ways, this is much more tragic for Tibetans than for Westerners. Our culture accepts the propriety of publicly expressing oneself, even if it's to tell someone to kiss our ass.

I like this, stark honesty and no mincing of words.

[diablo1974]

Very inspiring read. Kudos to Ven lozang, i admire his courage and the right to recognise religious freedom, and written for the right of this. True, many anti-ds Buddhists might and already received teachings from 'shudenpas'. If thats so, the affinity between ds and the aniti ds practitioner are created unless they run away from their teachers and /or gurus.

Some lamas are practising ds closed doors, i believe those who are actively involved in this forum can name a few out of the many of them. There will be more and more such written testaments and views against the ban and create a more objective movements and conditions  in lifiting the ban .

[brian]

Yes it is very inspiring to read what Ven Lozang written. Religion believe should be free of one's choice and not forced onto or banned by another. It is through the logic perception of oneself whether to practice their belief. How can a ban be imposed onto another practice (esp from the same religion - in this case, another "deity"). 

what Ven Lozang showed here is for other Lamas to come forth and speak about religious freedom and i feel they should highlight and appeal against the discrimination and physical/mental harm to Dorje Shugden practitioners by Anti Dorje Shugden practitioners. Harming others does not reflect Buddhism at all.

[Ensapa]

Hmm this wonderful thread seemed to have gotten buried a while back but i'm glad it's been revived. Been an excellent read.

This especially caught my eye:

It amazes me some can treat their Dharma brothers and sisters in such a way contray to Buddhas intentions.
Anways thank you for holding the neutral ground its refreshing to see 

Rightly said. It has always amazed me that people would claim to be followers and students of the Dalai Lama yet treat another human being, another Buddhist, a fellow Tibetan the way that they have treated Shugden practitioners. Surely, as a student of the Dalai Lama, the spiritual leader of all Tibetan Buddhists and a winner of the nobel peace prize, his followers and supporters would be kinder than that!
But its so much easier to be a crusader! hate the people that oppose your beliefs, and you will be saved. So many people hate Dorje Shugden without even knowing who he is, and they dont even want to know, but they want to hate!! logic please! Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture?

Personally, i have not necessarily agreed with the demonstrations either, or shouting out in public that the Dalai Lama is a liar. That I don't think is necessary either and also doesn't reflect well upon the very practice we are trying to protect of our great Dharmapala.
That is what I feel too. The best way to practice and represent the Dharmapala well is to do in accordance with Trijang Rinpoche's instructions and to hold our samaya and vows well, on top of holding Buddhist principles in our daily lives. But you have to admit that the protests did provoke the western media to do some investigations in Dharamsala regarding the ban and it has put indirect international pressure on the CTA and Dalai Lama to treat the Shugden practitioners better.

In either case, I have never agreed that acting in ways that may be interpreted in any way as being aggressive or offensive is the way forward in this "battle". We may well be fighting for our cause - whichever side it is that we are on - but is that how we wish to reflect the very people and beings that we are in support of?
Being aggressive can never get anything done and it does serve a very bad image of the practitioners to the world and to other Buddhists, but I do believe that everyone has a role to play in this soap opera. As you can see, once the international media started paying attention to the plight of the Dorje Shugden worshippers in Dharamsala, the protests stopped. Does that not tell you something?

is this the image we will lend to the world of how Dalai Lama students are? Or practitioners of Shugden? Or that this is how Buddhists react and act towards each other? The rest of the world is not likely to know the intricacies of the current politics and situation, they will only see Buddhists outside a Dharma teaching, both lay and ordained in a seeming conflict with each other. They will look upon Buddhists and wonder why this is so at odds with what the Buddha's teachings are on compassion, the middle way and patience.
I dont think that we should do things or perform actions that contradict the Dharma at all as it will give a bad impression of our protector, as WSS has demonstrated. Right now, this is the time to educate people in a peaceful way.

No, we shouldn't let "what other people think" dictate what we do, but in this case it is important for we would be planting right or wrong views of the holy Dharma in people's minds. Is this what we wish to portray of the very religion, path and the three jewels that we are trying to protect and promote to others? How we react to adversities like this ban is as much about protecting the minds of the millions out there, as it is about protecting our faith.
Here here!

I totally agree with what has beggar just said as it is very logical in more ways than one. We should show a good example if we are to end the ban. The ending of the ban cannot be driven by aggressive force, but through the force of well educated people who knows what is going on and do the right thing.