Author Topic: Dorje Shugden outside of Tibet  (Read 11210 times)

lotus1

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Re: Dorje Shugden outside of Tibet
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2012, 11:31:40 PM »
The more CTA and HHDL enforce the ban on Dorje Shugden, the more people from all over the world will get to hear about Dorje Shugden. In fact, that is the reason why I get to know Dorje Shugden too. For Dorjeshugden.com and forum, I get to learn more about the benefits of practicing him and start to do my daily practice. I think, maybe that’s a skillful way of HHDL to spread Dorje Shugden to the world.

When we see the practitioners are treated with schism and without humanity, that’s how many people are not agreed upon the ban and learned more about who is Dorje Shugden. Through learning about Dorje Shugden, we also know the effectiveness of Dorje Shugden. That’s why we can see there are temples in China, US, Taiwan, Nepal, etc. We can see the temples here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/category/places/. Besides, on the Doeje Shugden fan page in facebook, we can also wee it is now spread to all over the world in an album called “Dorje Shugden Around the World”. Check it out!

vajratruth

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Re: Dorje Shugden outside of Tibet
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2012, 05:35:22 AM »
Even for Tibetans living out of Tibet and Tibetan camps, there is really nothing CTA can do about what they choose to believe and practice. I agree we should work hard now to spread the message and to support our teacher instead of focusing our time and effort on some small petty groups who are making some baseless claims. Sites and forums like this (dorjeshugden.com) provides information to everyone who have any doubts and soon enough more people will realize the truth because nobody can suppress the truth.

Apart from keeping up with our practice strongly and spreading Dorje Shugden, I feel that we must also remember those Tibetans who are still practicing Dorje Shugden and are still experiencing the marginalization and oppression of the CTA. Unlike us, they are not so free to express their views and are also pretty much cut off from the rest of the world. They keep their faith in the practice still at great costs to them and I am sure the older ones are just living just to see the the day the ban is removed. Who is speaking for them and who is fighting for them? Therefore we cannot just forget them and move on with our practice regardless.

DharmaDefender brings up a good point to consider, that is, shouldn't fighting the ban and standing up to the CTA's discrimination against Tibetan practitioners, be part of our practice? Expression of our faith in Dorje Shugden must also extend to fighting the oppression on his practice and the responsibility of that falls on those of us who have gained much from the Protector, have relatively more resources to do something and also the freedom to do so.

No doubt, because of the controversy the Shugden name has spread throughout the world, but let's also remember that there is as much good propaganda as there are bad ones. As much as the practice has been exported to the world, so too the discrimination. Regardless, very little benefit has flowed through to the ordinary suffering Shugden practitioner who cannot help but still be bullied by the CTA. When I consider how frequently my Facebook is bombarded with petitions from people I hardly know seeking my support for their petition to save dogs in China or seals from being hunted, I realize that there is still so much more we can do.

Personally I don't think we should ignore the small petty group in Dharamsala because they are the ones causing all the trouble for so many. If anything I think we should fire up our efforts and make it part of our spiritual path to bring down the ban. Our focus should not be what the CTA can do to us, but what the CTA can do to them and have been doing all these years.




dondrup

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Re: Dorje Shugden outside of Tibet
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2012, 08:52:19 AM »
DharmaDefender has brought up a good point. Why are we so caught up with the ban on Dorje Shugden (DS)? 

If we are true DS practitioners, shouldn’t we devote ourselves 100% to the practice of DS and make it flourish far and wide?  Due to my ignorance, sometimes I fail to fully understand why when the ban was imposed by HH Dalai Lama and CTA, all the lineage lamas and practitioners who are (or had been) DS followers never came out openly to defend the practice?  Why do these lamas and practitioners had to secretly practise DS?  Why do some of these practitioners abandon DS just because HHDL and CTA said so?  Isn’t DS an authentic practice that has been passed down from our Gelugpa Lineage masters to Pabongka Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche and then to all the present teachers?

If one can abandon a chosen practice due to the lack of faith as a result of the ban, then he should not practised DS in the first place! You practise it because a lama says it is good.  Then when HHDL / CTA said it is no good, you abandon it.  That shows the maturity of your practice!

No one can dictate what one should and should not practise because spiritual practice is personal and we have a choice and freedom to practise.  Hence the ban will have no effect on one’s practice if one truly believe and have faith in DS.  One should practise DS fearlessly despite the ban!

Citizens of a country can overthrow their government for not serving the people.  Likewise, DS practitioners can lift the ban if the ban has no basis and does not benefit the practitioners. Why do the current DS practitioners have to endure the suffering and inconveniences of the ban any longer?

Why had the DS practitioners not gone all the way to defend the practice at the outset of the ban?  Their actions could have created the cause for the ban to remain until today! 


Ensapa

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Re: Dorje Shugden outside of Tibet
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2012, 11:20:05 AM »
Quote
If one can abandon a chosen practice due to the lack of faith as a result of the ban, then he should not practised DS in the first place! You practise it because a lama says it is good.  Then when HHDL / CTA said it is no good, you abandon it.  That shows the maturity of your practice!

No one can dictate what one should and should not practise because spiritual practice is personal and we have a choice and freedom to practise.  Hence the ban will have no effect on one’s practice if one truly believe and have faith in DS.  One should practise DS fearlessly despite the ban!

I fully and wholeheartedly agree with this statement! If you can abandon Dorje Shugden just because of a ban, then there is no point to do Dorje Shugden practice or any Dharma practice at all if you're gonna give up something as easily, then you would also give up other forms of Dharma practice just as easily as well, or maybe your own teachers just as easily as well, so in those instances, what is the use of Guru devotion or doing any Dharma practice in the first place? Because none of them would ever bear fruit!

beggar

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Re: Dorje Shugden outside of Tibet
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2013, 05:54:30 PM »
it would be interesting to consider how many Tibetans there actually are now in the exiled communities of India / nepal - because we have been hearing increasing reports about Tibetans immigrating to either Europe or America, or around the world. It looks like nobody really wants to remain in the Tibetan communities where their government offers so little protection and opportunity for their own people.

And while an older generation has a lifelong, deep faith in the Dalai Lama, I'm not sure the same can be said of a younger generation - this can be seen just from the audience in the Dalai Lama's teachings, where a majority of the attendants are very obviously of an older generation. While young people may still have some degree of respect for the dalai lama, they certainly aren't allowing him, his policies and his government to direct their lives, interests or even loyalty to their community. After all, what is there for a second-generation Tibetan in India these days?

So it's becoming clearer that the practices and lineage are likely not to be upheld by the Tibetans within India - especially not the lay Tibetans. Apart from practices and teachings within the monasteries, you rarely hear of the participation of laypeople in significant Dharma activity within these Tibetan communities today.

In contrast though, the largest Buddhist organisations in the world now are all outside of this nucleus of exiled Tibetan communities. They're in the West (such as Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's NKT centers and Lama Zopa's FPMT centers) or around Asia / Pacific (such as Serkong Tritul's centers). The ones upholding and carrying on the lineage to new generations are NOT Tibetans. The teachings and practices aren't even being conveyed in Tibetan.

So yes, Dorje Shugden will be upheld outside of Tibet and, I would daresay it isn't even just this one practice, but an entire lineage, the whole corpus of teachings and meditations from the many schools of Tibetan Buddhism. And while the CTA fights its tiny little battles among just a few 100,000 of its exiled community (perhaps less now that the incidence of immigration is increasing) to stop a practice and uphold some version of religious purity, the rest of the world are merrily continuing to promote and practice exactly what they're trying to stop. The best part? They have absolutely no say in anything outside the relatively small borders of the Indian nation. And so the practice flourishes, perhaps even more than it ever did before within the small and cloistered Tibetan world.

Big Uncle

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Re: Dorje Shugden outside of Tibet
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 04:10:25 AM »
Well, there are many Tibetans who would emigrate overseas but they are not the ones that would be spreading Dorje Shugden. It would be the monastic community in India (or Tibet, China) that would be spreading Dorje Shugden. Why? They are the ones that are receiving the monastic education that would eventually mould them into great qualified teachers that are capable of spreading the lineage. I am sure the great monasteries would find it difficult to get the younger generation of Tibetans to enroll into great monasteries but they will always be monks who would be spreading the Dharma. It is said that the Dharma cannot grow without the Sangha.

Monasteries require great masters to teach and these masters seemed to reincarnated back within Tibetan strongholds in India, Tibet, China and Mongolia. I guess it is because the basic culture of the people supports the learning of the Dharma. Although I am sure there are exceptions for example the New Kadampa Tradition to perpetuate the monastic community along with the preservation and propagation of the Dharma in a foreign land like England.

However, I still think that the future of Dorje Shugden practice is still tied to the Tibetan community in India, with the two large Dorje Shugden monasteries, Serpom and Shar Gaden along with the numerous other larger monasteries all over Tibet China, of which some are covered in this website already like Gongsar monastery in Kham and so forth. I do want to concede that the majority of Dorje Shugden practitioners would be coming for all over the world, which I think is due to the kindness of the Dalai Lama's ban.

Ensapa

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Re: Dorje Shugden outside of Tibet
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2013, 07:50:18 AM »
There are many Dorje Shugden masters who have migrated elsewhere to spread Dorje Shugden freely without any problems such as Geshe Keslang Gyatso, Serkong Tritul Rinpoche, Kundeling Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche, Panchen Lama and so many other teachers who carry on the legacy of Dorje Shugden around the world. While CTA is heading slowly to failure and self implosion (due to the amount of negative karma that they have accumulated so far, it is only a matter of time before that happens) the Dorje Shugden Lamas outside of Dharamsala will grow and flourish more and more and grow to an incredible rate. I do hope that the ban would be officially lifted still, because then a lot of people who actually need Dorje Shugden would gain access to him and they would be able to have a better life with his blessings and protection, and time for spiritual practice.

Gabby Potter

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Re: Dorje Shugden outside of Tibet
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2015, 06:49:23 AM »
Yes, I agree very much with Dharma Defender, Dorje Shugden's practise is spread widely outside of Tibet. If we all unite and do something to lift the ban, the CTA's definitely have no say in situation like this.