16 Droplets Kadhampa Empowerment

[lightning]

This highest yoga tantra empowerment is passed down by Atisha to Dromtumpa etc. Only a few Lamas has this lineage. Other than Dalai Lama has this lineage. Who are the other Lamas have this lineage? Any detailed informations about this empowerment???

[LosangKhyentse]

This highest yoga tantra empowerment is passed down by Atisha to Dromtumpa etc. Only a few Lamas has this lineage. Other than Dalai Lama has this lineage. Who are the other Lamas have this lineage? Any detailed informations about this empowerment???

Dear Lightning,

When you say lineage, I assume you mean who can pass the empowerment to others? If that is the case, many of the senior Gelug Lama would have it and can pass it. But you have to realize many of them did receive the empowerment from either the 14th Dalai Lama, Trijang Rinpoche or Ling Rinpoche. So if you receive the empowerment, then there's a high chance the 14th Dalai Lama would become one of your lineage gurus you need to solicit daily in the practice to gain attainments. You will have to have perfect view of both your root guru and lineage gurus for any attainments to be actualized in the tantras.

The lamas who would have this practice:

HH Gaden Trisur Rinpoche Jetsun Lungrik Namgyal of France (Gaden Shartse now Shar Gaden)
Kyabje Denma Locho Rinpoche of Drepung Loseling
Zopa Rinpoche of FPMT
Kensur Konchok Tsering of Gaden Shartse Monastery
Kangyur Rinpoche of Gaden Shartse Monastery residing in Dharamsala
Kyabje Yongyal Rinpoche of Serpom Monastery
Ken Rinpoche Geshe Lobsang Pende of Shar Gaden
Geshe Kelsang Gyatso of NKT
Kyabje Gangchen Rinpoche of Sera Mey Monastery (Italy) 
Erudite Geshe Thupten of Switzerland
Kyabje Gonsar Rinpoche of Switzerland
Kyabje Zasep Rinpoche of Australia
Kyabje Gelek Rinpoche
Drayab Loden Sherab Rinpoche of Germany


Those are the names that comes to mind.

TK

[lightning]

Hi TK,
HHDL is not in the lineage master list received here. 
What is so special about this intiation? Compared to Yamantaka, the instructions on father and mother tantra are not that clear. The HYT only appear in the last 2 droplets of the 16.
What is the ultimate benefit of this initation?

[Dolce Vita]

Sorry for my ignorance, I am pretty new to Buddhism. What is this '16 droplets kadhampa empowerment'?

[wang]

Hi TK,
HHDL is not in the lineage master list received here. 
What is so special about this intiation? Compared to Yamantaka, the instructions on father and mother tantra are not that clear. The HYT only appear in the last 2 droplets of the 16.
What is the ultimate benefit of this initation?

You should have it from your master already,right?

Per the 'green lineage's site in Taiwan, Serkong is the owner of the Kadampa lineage since mid 80s(ie. when he was a youngster, didn't mention receive from whom though, it hint be via 'vision') and kept it secret.  Until recent years he found it be 'right time' to release his status and form the 'Green lineage'...

[lightning]

Hi TK,
HHDL is not in the lineage master list received here. 
What is so special about this intiation? Compared to Yamantaka, the instructions on father and mother tantra are not that clear. The HYT only appear in the last 2 droplets of the 16.
What is the ultimate benefit of this initation?

You should have it from your master already,right?

Per the 'green lineage's site in Taiwan, Serkong is the owner of the Kadampa lineage since mid 80s(ie. when he was a youngster, didn't mention receive from whom though, it hint be via 'vision') and kept it secret.  Until recent years he found it be 'right time' to release his status and form the 'Green lineage'...

Hi Wang,
we have a list of lineage masters named during the initiation. Please mind your words and shut up if you do not know anything at all. Please answer my 3 questions of Dharma and I have given you ample time to consult any Geshe you know to challenge my questions. From your knowlegde gain, you understand Dharma by surface only.

[lightning]

Hi Wang,

You have made quite a number of baseless personal attack on Serkong Tritrl Rinpoche.
1) You could not always my Dharma questions to prove yourself
2) I even invite you to for a meeting with Dromtug Rinpoche to clear your doubts
3) You have no evidence that Serkong Tritul Rinpoche did not receive from authentic lineage master.
4) In fact, all of those Buddhist masters who challeged Dromtug Rinpoche on Dharma debate were defeated especially in seeing emptiness wisdom aspect! I can avow this fact!
5) I will put an end to your nonsense by reporting to the moderator to block and ban you, if you cannot even answer my Dharma questions!

[wang]

5) I will put an end to your nonsense by reporting to the moderator to block and ban you, if you cannot even answer my Dharma questions!

Please read carefully what I wrote, I said' according to an official site from green lineage in Taiwan'.  I am/was commenting with base, most of of information actually comes from your organization's sites in the internet. I will make translation of this Q&A by Serkong dated Oct 2010 in response to critics on several events, but mainly on his reason of why forming the 'green lineage' as it is related to your questions(I just browsed that there were some 16 droplets teaching announcement in the green lineage forum also).  Pls stay tuned...

[lightning]

You should have it from your master already,right?

(ie. when he was a youngster, didn't mention receive from whom though, it hint be via 'vision') and kept it secret. 

Sorry to say that this statement is baseless.

[wang]

ok. upon lightning's request,  here is translation of the Kadampa sect(Green Lineage)'s open Q&A letter in response to several critics about it(re-build of Kadampa sect, recognition of tulkus, sex scandal, etc.) on Oct 2010 in their official site:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=100214993376918&id=164038393608279&ref=mf

I mainly translated the Kamdapa/16 droplets related Q&A.  The answer (A) was by Serkong.

1.
Q: Do Tibetan Buddhism really have high emphasize on lineage transmission?
A: Yes
Q: If the lineage is interrupted, it cannot be recovered anymore,right?
A: No
Q: Why no?
A: Because if someone would like to recover a lineage, on condition that he practice the other lineage well and gained attainment, he can receive full transmission from Vajradhara or previous lineage masters.  That kind of 'near transmissio'n or 'near near transmission' is even more powerful.

2.
Q: Dharma King, the secret Kadampa transmission you are holding is same or not same as that holding by 14th HHDL and other Rinpoches?
A: Although Kadampa’s 16 droplets teachings etc. by Atisha transmitted to the Red, White, Colored, Yellow and Green sects, the Yellow sect’s 16 droplets is the most complete one, thus my Kadam 16 droplet transmission came from Trijian Rinpoche, same as 14th HHDL.  The 16 droplets transmission not coming from Trijinag Rimnpoche is not same as mine.

3.
Q: Is there possibility of recovering the broken Kadam sect?
A: Except for me, no one has the power to recover Kadam sect.
Q: Why?
A: Cos I have full transmission of the Kadam sect, also as everyone know since 1984 I started to prepare rebuilding Kadampa, but as I have deep compassion with the Yellow sect, so in 2007 as 14th HHDL and the other Yellow sect person’s bad mouth and rejection, in 2008 Jan 1st I announced re-building the Kadampa sect, and now there is over 10000 monks/nuns and with the Nepal Kadam monastery, Great Vehicle Monastery, Big Bliss Monastery ..Taiwan Big Bliss Monastery etc a lot followers.  All in all, I not only perfectly rebuild the Kadampa sect, but also with close to 100 centers globally.  So those in prejudice with Kadampa sect(Green lineage) are saying lie, very pity, wish Atisha father and sons masters save those bad mouth the green sect quick.

4.
Q: Dharma King, are you self claimed be the ‘Big Vehicle Dharma King’?
(note: ‘Big Vehicle Dharma King’ was an title grant by the Ming Emperor to Sakya Yeshe, Tsongkapa’s disciple, founder of Sera Monastery  when he went to Beijing  upon the court’s call.  Similarly, the Kaygu Karmapa was grant ‘Great Treasure Dharma King’ title by the Ming emperor in other event)
A: No
Q: Why no?
A: Cos I have my previous lives, and from the time of Sakaymuni till now, I re-incarnated as different famous monks or boddihisavas. One of my lives was appointed as ‘Great Vehicle Dharma King’ by the Ming emperor, not even that, in this life, I established the ‘Great Vehicle Monastery’ in Nepal and holding a statue of Dharma King', so I am ‘Great Vehicle Dharma King’, this title match my status.  If HHDL can submit proof that I don’t have previous incarmations, not be grant with ‘Great Vehicle Dharma King’ by the Ming emperor, and not 'Dharma King' of the Nepal ‘Great Vehicle monastery’, then I will admit I am self-claimed and don’t have previous lives.

5.
Q: Dharma King, are you qualified to recognize someone as Rinpoches?
A: Sure
Q: Why sure?
A: Cos HHDL etc Yellow sect and other sect’s tulku Rinpoche are all be recognized my someone similar to my status or even those lower than my status.

Note: Trijiang Rinpoche passed away in 1981, while Serkong was in his early teen(just joined Gadan Monastery not yet recognized as tulku), use your own judge how an 13 years old boy or even younger (non-tulku kid ) can fully received the secret 16 droplet Kadampa teachings from Trijiang Rinpoche while he was alive...In the old days,  his organization claim most of the Gelukpa teachings were transmitted from Zemey Rinpoche. Q&A1 provide hint to answer of it, as I commented before.

[lightning]

Hi Wang,

Aren't you ashame of yourself enough???
1) you accused that Kadhampa's Buddha relics is not recongised but HHDL's Matrieya Project also have the same source of relic?
2) You accused that HH Serkong Rinpoche of raping, but He was being accused and those accused and brough harm to Him were immedietely judged by their own karma.
3) You have followed on Kadhampa forum without good intention and bringing benefit to contribution of Dharma, but with continous effort to smear on Kadhampa ansd Serkong Rinpoche?
4) I am sure that you did not listen to the Dharma lessons by Serkong Rinpoche and bravely challenge on Dharma teachings. Rather you hide yourself behind your laptop?

[lightning]

The 16 drop Kadhampa lineage is passed by Dema Loche Rinpoche and He is still alive.

[wang]

The 16 drop Kadhampa lineage is passed by Dema Loche Rinpoche and He is still alive.

I know from the news, in 2006 right?

This news make me wonder why Serkong said he got full Kadampa transmissions in the early 80s intending to rebuild the lineage afterwards.  He didn't mention Dema Loche Rinpoche as his Kadampa teacher in last year's announcement.

In fact, there is a session I didn't translate did mention Dema Loche Rinpoche, fyi:

Q: May I ask,  lineage holder Zemey Rinpoche, Dema Loche Rinpoche and 14th HHDL etc these Yellow sect, Colored sect, White sect, Red sect and Green Sect(?) masters and disciples, are they Kadampa practitioners?

A: No
 
Q: Why no?
 
A: Cos they rely on their own lineage's un-common transmission as their principal practice, and treat Kadampa's teachings  as an complement to in-perfect part of their own lineage.  Especially Kadampa's Lamp to path teachings, the 3 principal paths and the associated practices, if the other sect don't study it they cannot attain Buddhahood.  So other sects also claim themselves be 'Kadampa'.  So, as of now if no Kadam sect, then these qualified teachers are all making lie?

PS: I don't fully understand what Serkong mean in the last sentence, but make a direct translation.  Anyway point here is that he did mention Dema Loche Rinpoche in this 2010 Oct open letter, but not treat him as Kadampa lineage holder. His main message in Oct 2010 is 'he got full transmission from Trijiang Rinpoche on the 16 droplets via some special means, same as HHDL, but HHDL's Kadampa teachings is less powerful as he has guru-disciple relationship problem'.  That's why he is the only one who qualified  to rebuild this Kadampa sect.