Gyalpo Sum - Three Protectors of Sakya

[Lineageholder]

Make everyone's life simple, just get another protector. It's like a protector buffet to choose from.  [/color]

So we should change our spiritual practices like people change their wallpaper and soft furnishings?

Whatever the Guru has prescribed is good medicine if the Guru is qualified.  We have a wonderful lineage of very qualified Teachers.  The Dalai Lama is not Gelugpa, therefore he has no right to interfere and tell Gelugpas what they can and cannot practice.

The Nyingmapas have their own Protector, Dorje Drollo.  No one is suggesting that they should abandon this protector and find another.  This is also the same with Dorje Shugden - he's the personal protector of Je Tsongkhapa's tradition and we will not abandon him.

[Tenzin Gyatso]

Make everyone's life simple, just get another protector. It's like a protector buffet to choose from.  [/color]

So we should change our spiritual practices like people change their wallpaper and soft furnishings?

Whatever the Guru has prescribed is good medicine if the Guru is qualified.  We have a wonderful lineage of very qualified Teachers.  The Dalai Lama is not Gelugpa, therefore he has no right to interfere and tell Gelugpas what they can and cannot practice.

The Nyingmapas have their own Protector, Dorje Drollo.  No one is suggesting that they should abandon this protector and find another.  This is also the same with Dorje Shugden - he's the personal protector of Je Tsongkhapa's tradition and we will not abandon him.

Who's to say which guru is qualified or not. For every guru there are people who feel is qualifed and he is not. That is very subjective.

You are right, we don't change our practices like wallpaper.

You are also right that medicine from the guru is very good. For the millions around the world who take HHDL as their guru, he advised them to change their protector and they did. They changed their medicine to a better one.

I never practiced dhogyal and never will. I have never changed.

As for the HHDL being Gelug or not is irrelevant, the Gelug major monasteries do take him as their head. Secondly we can check the 18 volumes of Tsongkapa's teachings, there is no Shugden mentioned. When Tsongkapa was in retreat for 6 years in Olka, he relied on Kalarupa and he recommended the same for others who follow him. Don't listen to HHDL, but listen to Tsongkapa.

[hope rainbow]

As for the HHDL being Gelug or not is irrelevant, the Gelug major monasteries do take him as their head. Secondly we can check the 18 volumes of Tsongkapa's teachings, there is no Shugden mentioned. When Tsongkapa was in retreat for 6 years in Olka, he relied on Kalarupa and he recommended the same for others who follow him. Don't listen to HHDL, but listen to Tsongkapa.[/color]

How could Shugden be mentioned in Lama Tsongkhapa writings when Dorje Shugden had not arose yet?

The matter at hand here is very simple: Is Dorje Shugden a spirit or is he a Buddha, thus suitable object of refuge?

So far, there are still not a single evidence that DS is a spirit, and yet many evidences that he is a Buddha and was already a Buddha before he arose as a Dharma protector.

I'll go further, to declare that Dorje Shugden is a spirit is the same as saying that Manjushri is a spirit.
It is just as absurd...

Si when an emanation of Chenrezig declares a ban on an emanation Manjushri, it can only be a play in motion.

Please, and with respect, contemplate on that Tenzin Gyatso.

[Ensapa]

Who's to say which guru is qualified or not. For every guru there are people who feel is qualifed and he is not. That is very subjective.

You are right, we don't change our practices like wallpaper.

You are also right that medicine from the guru is very good. For the millions around the world who take HHDL as their guru, he advised them to change their protector and they did. They changed their medicine to a better one.

I never practiced dhogyal and never will. I have never changed.

As for the HHDL being Gelug or not is irrelevant, the Gelug major monasteries do take him as their head. Secondly we can check the 18 volumes of Tsongkapa's teachings, there is no Shugden mentioned. When Tsongkapa was in retreat for 6 years in Olka, he relied on Kalarupa and he recommended the same for others who follow him. Don't listen to HHDL, but listen to Tsongkapa.

- If you dont feel that your own Guru is qualified, why should you take him or her as your Guru? If you dont feel someone else's Guru is qualified, what gives you the right to say if that Lama is qualified or not? Isnt there a line in Buddhist texts that say criticizing a teaching and authentic Buddhist teacher is the same as killing 1000 Buddhas...what happens if the Lama you think is not qualified happens to be qualified? then its not gonna be pretty..

- I have no problems with other people wanting to take HHDL as their Guru, as long as they dont enroach into my right to take a qualified lama that may not be politically aligned with HHDL as my Guru. Do we go into their forums and urge people to practice Dorje Shugden?

- Again, Dorje Shugden appeared AFTER Tsongkhapa. Tsongkhapa is not a big fan of showing his clairvoyance and abilities. Why would Tsongkhapa ask his disciples to practice a protector that has not shown up yet? Why are you using the same argument that I have debased earlier?