Author Topic: What did Salman Rushdie say about Dorje Shugden?  (Read 4832 times)

Namdrol

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What did Salman Rushdie say about Dorje Shugden?
« on: May 04, 2012, 11:49:37 PM »
Found this book by Salman Rushdie mentioning Dorje Shugden? What language is it in? And what did he say about Dorje Shugden? Can someone translate please?


jessicajameson

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Re: What did Salman Rushdie say about Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2012, 11:51:15 AM »
Dear Namdrol,

I don't speak Spanish, but here is what I could translate using some online translation tools (and a bit of common sense!). It helps to give a rough idea about what the relevant pages are about.

"despues de bombay, standish habia ido a sentarse a los pies de un mahaguru adolescente en Bangalore, y luego hasta Dharmsala para pasar algún tiempo en el templo budista de Shugden."

After Bombay, Standish had gone to sit at the feet of a mahaguru adolescent in Bangalore, and then to Dharmsala to spend some time in the Buddhist temple of Shugden.

"se apegó especialmente a la deidad Dorje Shugden, que, según se dice, habló a Gyatso por medio de un monje en trance, indicándole la ruta secreta por la que escapó de los conquistadores chinos del Tibet y llegó a la India"

It became attached to the particular deity Dorje Shugden, which is said, spoke to Gyatso by means of a monk in trance, indicating the secret route by which he escaped from the Chinese conquerors of Tibet and arrived in India.

"Dorje Shugden tiene tres ojos rojos y exhala rayos. Pero es uno de los protectors, por cólerico que parezca."

Dorje Shugden has three red eyes and exhaled rays. But it is one of the protectors, by angry as it may seem.

**off translation**

"En ese viaje, por desgracia, no puede pensarse en una audiencia con al Gran Lama, que está en el extranjero, pero Standish tiene la intención de hacer sus devociones rituales a Shugden. También él es un hombre que busca un camino."

On that trip, unfortunately, there can not be an audience with the Grand Lama, who is abroad, but Standish intends to make its ritual devotions to Shugden. He is also a man seeking a path.

"Pero a la puerta del venido a menos templo de Shugden los espera Otto Wing con malas noticias. Con la cabeza afeitada y túnica, un verdadero creyente de pies a cabeza, el más fiel de los fieles, con sus pesadas gafas de montura negra como único remanente del Otro que jugueteaba con Ifredis Wing en Tempe Harbor hace una vida, informa a Standish con labios fruncidos y desaprobadores de que el Dalai Lama ha roto con Dorje Shugden. En esos dias predica contra la deidad, disuadiendo de su adoración. Dice que el culto a Shugden distrae del culto al Buda mismo."

But at the door of the come to less temple of Shugden awaits Otto Wing with bad news. With the shaven head and tunic, a true believer from feet to head, the most faithful of the faithful, with their heavy black frame glasses as the sole remnant of another that played with Ifredis Wing in Tempe Harbor makes a life, reports to Standish with pursed lips and desaprobadores that the Dalai Lama has broken with Dorje Shugden. In those days he preaches against the deity, thereby discouraging their adoration. He said that the worship of Shugden distracts from the worship of Buddha himself.

"Busca ayuda externa de esos espíritus es apartase del Buda, lo que resulta vergonzoso. No debéis rezar aqui, dice al conmovido Standish. El camino de las cuatro nobles verdades no pasa  ya por este lugar."

Looking for external aid of those spirits is derogating of the Buddha, which is shameful. You must not pray here, he tells the shocked Standish. The path of the four noble truths does not pass this place.

beggar

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Re: What did Salman Rushdie say about Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2012, 12:21:07 PM »
This is from Rushdie's book "The Ground Beneath her Feet" - a brilliant rewriting of mythology, if I may say so! Might be time to dig out the old tome and reread it again!

From the sounds of the translation, Rushdie's stance sounds neutral, although it does sound very characteristic of him to question the politics within religion (Satanic Verses, anyone), calling into question specifically the roles and responsibilities of spiritual authorities in preserving the practices or, indeed, in destroying them - how aspects within religion become defined by what seems to be man-made edits, rather than what they really are. Sound familiar? Like, the CTA dictating the "evilness" of Shugden and the rights (or lack of) of Shugden practitioners vs non Shugden practitioners; rather than understanding and acknowledging the true enlightened nature of this Dharmapala (what he really is).

For all the readership he has in the world though, Rushdie has certainly put that great imprint of Shugden in the minds of millions, knowingly or not. So, thanks Rushdie! And thanks for always fearlessly bringing these questions about the freedom of religion out in the open.

Positive Change

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Re: What did Salman Rushdie say about Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 06:30:30 AM »
Hi all... I checked with my Spanish friend and this is what he says and has translated:

I have to say that the writing is difficult and by only reading just these two pages of texts it is difficult to really know what is really happening... but I did my best.

I translated the action, rather than the words... I hope it is enough. Here it is, in blue:

Ok. So it’s this guy that goes to India because he feels guilty for something about being American which I can not guess. So he decides to go to India.

The guy went to Bombay, then to Bangalore and finally to Dharamsala to spend sometime in the buddhist temple of Shugden.  It tells how surprisingly hedonist people from the west look for the ascetic orient. That is only what they want from India, they say….


Bla bla bla – things I simply can’t understand, sorry. The weird things he says just do not make sense to me…

The other page (which is not continuation of the previous one):

He was attached to the Dorje Shugden deity, who talked to Gyatso and told him the secret way to escape from the Chinese conquerors and escape to India. Dorje Shigden has three red eyes and exhales rays. But it is one of the protectors, even if he look angry.

Even if in this trip Standish will not be able to meet Dalai Lama (he his abroad), he will be happy to pray to Shugden. He is looking for the way, too.

At the door of the Shugden temple, they are met by Otto Wing who comes with bad news. He informs Standish that Dalai Lama has broken with Dorje Shugden. In those days he preaches against the deity, discouraging people from adoring him. He says that adoring him distracts people from the cult to Budbha, which can not be permitted. So Standish is informed that he can no longer pray there. The path to the four noble truths is not here anymore.

The tense and anxious monks of Shugden temple…



thor

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Re: What did Salman Rushdie say about Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 06:12:03 PM »
It might interest readers to know what Ursula Bernis said of Salman Rushdie's book, in her research paper CONDEMNED TO SILENCE: A TIBETAN IDENTITY CRISIS (1996-199)

Quote
Ironically, even though the  truth of  the  Dorje  Shugden conflict is stranger  than fiction, to date  its most accurate rendering, at least from an experiential point of view, can be found in a work of fiction by Salman Rushdie: The Ground Beneath Her Feet, Henry Holt and Company, Inc., New York, 1999, in chapters 13 and 14."


She wrote this in the context of how the accusations against Dorje Shugden and Shugden practitioners were over dramatized, exaggerated, and had absolutely no basis in logical proof except for the words of the Dalai Lama. Ms Bernis also felt that the Shugden ban arose from political motivation.

Bravo Ms Bernis. And also to Mr Rushdie. More of Ms Bernis' writings can be found here: http://www.shugdensociety.info/pdfs/BernisResearch.pdf

Ensapa

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Re: What did Salman Rushdie say about Dorje Shugden?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2012, 12:15:30 PM »
It might interest readers to know what Ursula Bernis said of Salman Rushdie's book, in her research paper CONDEMNED TO SILENCE: A TIBETAN IDENTITY CRISIS (1996-199)

Quote
Ironically, even though the  truth of  the  Dorje  Shugden conflict is stranger  than fiction, to date  its most accurate rendering, at least from an experiential point of view, can be found in a work of fiction by Salman Rushdie: The Ground Beneath Her Feet, Henry Holt and Company, Inc., New York, 1999, in chapters 13 and 14."


She wrote this in the context of how the accusations against Dorje Shugden and Shugden practitioners were over dramatized, exaggerated, and had absolutely no basis in logical proof except for the words of the Dalai Lama. Ms Bernis also felt that the Shugden ban arose from political motivation.

Bravo Ms Bernis. And also to Mr Rushdie. More of Ms Bernis' writings can be found here: http://www.shugdensociety.info/pdfs/BernisResearch.pdf


What is interesting is, how did she not see video clips of how practitioners were kicked out of their homes and have all their belongings destroyed. How did she not see the posters put on the walls of various shops in Dharamsala that do not welcome Dorje Shugden practitioners? And the death threats against Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche? How can a "scholar" miss out details so conveniently?

These modern scholars claim to do a lot of research on the subject but their works are biased and very partial towards a certain view which they declare to be the truth and the actual situation when it is not! IF scholars decide to go with a biased view, they should first state it so that others will not be confused and this would give people a clearer indication on the issue as a whole rather than just being one sided.

HHDL has his own army of scholars that write biased information that slants towards HHDL's goals but in a very biased and misleading way....that is done with the intention of deceiving and that cant be good either. It makes no sense to support HHDL to spread the Dharma on one hand and then deceiving others on the other. If they are doing that consciously, they should at least inform others about it.

There are many other unbiased scholars who speak the truth despite the ban and despite the pressure from the CTA and I respect them a lot. One of these scholars are Glenn Mullin who writes very detailed and unbiased accounts about the history of Tibet and he has been very neutral about Dorje Shugden like every scholar should ob this matter. When you're responsible for informing others, there is no excuse to be biased.