Weighing the evidence

[Heartspoon]

"It is necessary to clarify these matters. Otherwise, some of you might have your suspicions. Maybe there are still some of you who, in seeming deference to the Dalai Lama make out as though you agree and follow me in this, but who privately harbour other thoughts. Others of you may be thinking, ‘well I am not sure of the reasons, but as it is something that the Dalai Lama has instructed, I must abide by it’. I want to stress again that I do not support this attitude at all. This is a ridiculous approach. This is a position that one should come to by weighing the evidence and then using one's discernment about what it would be best to adopt and what best to avoid."

HH the 14th Dalai Lama

First "reason" presented:

"His Holiness the Dalai Lama consulted Palden Lhamo by means of divination and other methods to discover whether the propitiation of Shugden could be continued or should be prohibited."

Actually, HH the Dalai Lama consulted the State Oracle:

1rst answer of the State Oracle:

"Dorje Shugden a powerful deity, only to be worshipped by beings with high realizations. However worshipping this deity would upset Goddess Palden Lhamo (a superior protecting deity, who does not have an oracle)"

2nd answer of the State Oracle:

"the deity is appropriate to be worshipped by an individual, but not by a group"

3rd answer of the State Oracle:

"Dorje Shugden is a deity, suitable to the others, but not to the successor of the 5th Dalai Lama and those working for the Gaden Phodrang Government established by the 5th Dalai Lama."

4rth answer of the State Oracle:

"Dorje Shugden is a spirit born out of a Kagyupa-monk who hated the Tibetan government, and not the incarnation of Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen"

5th answer of the State Oracle:

"Dorje Shugden is the spirit of Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen, whose Samaya bond to the 5th Dalai Lama was not good, thus it is harmful for this government."

6th answer of the State Oracle:

"Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen was a good lama, whose works of composition are praiseworthy, therefore Dorje Shugden cannot be the spirit of such a master."

7th answer of the State Oracle:

"Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen himself was a false Tulku, who came to be among the candidates for the 5th Dalai Lama and failed to be chosen, but through clever tactics of his mother on the first Panchen Lama Choe Kyi Gyaltsen, he was recognized as the fourth reincarnation of Panchen Sonam Dragpa (the teacher of 3rd Dalai Lama), but was then born as an evil, trouble-making spirit to harm the Tibetan government."


When HH the 14th Dalai Lama presented his "proofs" to HH Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, his Tutor answered:

"Palden Lhamo would not lie to You"

[Heartspoon]

"Even if one chooses to close one's eyes to the evidence, without caring about the results of one's actions, perform things that are going to damn you, it is not up to me, and I can do nothing about it. It is like the words, “I, Kachei Palu, have disclosed my secrets here, but whether you choose to listen or not is up to you”.

How true...and incidentally said by HH 14th the Dalai Lama...

[Heartspoon]

Thus, HH the 14th Dalai Lama not closing his eyes to the evidence,
the previous answers given by the state oracle clearing
any doubts one may have about his word holding reason
and his nature being the glorious nondual transcendental wisdom,
further relies upon him for clarifying the matter at hand:

In HH the Dalai Lama's own words:

"Once a year, I put questions to the Nechung oracle. As many have suggested that the whole tradition of ‘life offering’ in relation to Dholgyal practice sprung from a vision that Tagpu Dorje Chang had, I wanted to query this. I posed the question that, if this indeed were something that can be traced back to such a vision, wouldn’t it be something that can be relied upon? The response was that visions are of two types. There are reliable ones that come due to blessings of higher powers and those that are in the nature of hindrances. This, it was stated, was a case of the latter. It was made quite clear then".

[Heartspoon]

As a justification of his ban of Dorje Shugden, HH the 14th Dalai Lama often quotes Trichen Ngawang Chokden:

"Trichen Ngawang Chokdhen was the root guru of the 7th Dalai Lama and an extremely great being. He was from Amdo, so we are from the same region of Tibet, and became the first Reting Rinpoche. He was really an incredibly great being. It was he who was responsible for making Gyalchog Kalsang Gyatso what he was. These two, both Lama and disciple, had great devotion for each other. I am moved to tears, particularly when I reach the point in Gyalchog Kalsang (Gyatso’s) biography where Trichen Rinpoche says he doesn’t want anything except Reting. When the time came for him to leave for Reting, Gyalchog Kalsang requested him to stay a little longer. But, Trichen Rinpoche says, “Now, I will go”. Then Trichen Rinpoche mounts his horse and sets off. According to past accounts, there was a place in the Potala called the Wanglatang. That’s where Trichen Rinpoche left from and as he began his descent, Gyalchok Kalsang watched after him from the window of Wanglatang. It is really moving, because they both wept.

Anyway, I have been wondering what we might find in Trichen Ngawang Chokdhen’s biography. There is one by Changkya Rolpai Dorje"

Well, no reason to wonder anymore, here is what Changkya Rolpai Dorje wrote and that is often mentionned by HH the 14th Dalai Lama as a "proof" that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit:

"An evil monk spirit (rgyal.'gong) from Dragsob (brag.sob) who was invoked by some active Lama retired from his monastic office (bla.zur) and a Khamtsen at Ganden. They built a wayside shrine for this spirit in the circumambulation path of Ganden. Trichen Ngawang Chogden declared this unsuitable. He said that since the time of Je Tsong Khapa and his disciples no worldly spirits were worshiped at his [Ganden] monastery and that in future this would also not be permitted. When that spirit was invoked through an oracle, he said that since the Trichen Rinpoche had said this, he had no choice but to leave and he excused himself and left for Taktse-Shöl. The Lama retired from his monastic office who had relied on that evil spirit died soon after as punishment by Kalarupa [one of Je Tsong Khapa's protectors]." (Ursula Bernis research)

This is the passage of Trichen Ngawang Chokden's biography to which HH the 14th Dalai Lama makes systematically reference to as something written that is related to "Dolgyal".

However, it is clear that this passage refers to Tagtse Gyalpo, a spirit of the Tagtse estate, which is not far from the Ganden monastery. The Samlo department of Ganden monastery took over this estate, and with it, adopted that spirit of the estate as a protector deity of the department. It was then worshipped in the Ganden monastery in their department for some time, until it was expelled by the great master Trichen Ngawang Chogden, who at that time was the throne-holder of Ganden. The spirit was sent back to its estate, where it was worshipped by the villagers until 1959. So it is clear, that the spirit expelled from Ganden monastery by Trichen Ngawang Chogden is not at all Dolgyal (Dorje Shugden).

It is good to know that the next incarnation of Trichen Ngawang Chogden, this "extremely great being", in the words of HH the 14th Dalai Lama, was also a Ganden throne-holder, with the name Trichen Tenpa Rabgyä. Out of his deep devotion to Dorje Shugden this master requested his disciple Dragri Choejor Gyatso to compose the first extensive Dorje Shugden ritual for the Gelug tradition, finding the first ritual composed by the 5th Dalai Lama too short.

[Heartspoon]

The source is here:

http://www.shugdensociety.info/historyEvents.html

[Heartspoon]

"In the course of the ban, monasteries are also asked  to perform anti-Dorje Shugden rituals. For some the Dalai Lama is present." 
 
I heard that quite a few so-called "high status" practitionners, among them some of the most renowned ones, confronted him in the last 300 years. Thinking about the results, a gentle smile illuminates my face...

An enlightened being has no problems whatsoever to subdue a devil.

If one were to tell me that an enlightened being has been subdued by an enlightened being,
I would heartily laugh ! 

Has one ever tried to say that an ordinary being will subdue an enlightened being ?

[a friend]

 

[Heartspoon]

« In a similar vein, it would be worthwhile looking into just who was responsible for first coining the epithet ‘Protector of the teachings for the Conqueror Mañjushri (Je Rinpoche)’ for Dholgyal. What were the circumstances of its being given? Was this the culmination of an authoritative spiritual figure following the correct procedure of ordering (the protector into service) and assigning (to it certain duties)? That certainly cannot be said of Phabongkha. He did not go through this procedure »

HH the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Great Dharmapala Nechung said:

"No one can compete with him! He is the one called Dorje Shugden Tsel, The Mighty One Endowed With Vajra Strength !

Thinking about the name he used, "Dorje", Vajra, as in the context of Vajrayana, we can infer that he does not seem to be a protector that was bound to oath and named by glorious Hayagriva or Guru Rinpoche.

Scholars and yogis, please check !"

Continuing, as Sakya Dagchen Dorje Chang had given him the human heart as a hand symbol, he went to Morchen Dorje Chang's place and showed it to him saying,"This is the hand symbol of my being enthroned as a high Dharma Protector by Sakya Dagchen ! "

Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors

At the time of Dulzin Dragpa Gyaltsen's later incarnation, Panchen Sonam Dragpa, the overlord of all the haughty gods and spirits that exist in the world, Dorje Dragden, said to the Panchen,

"Manjushri of Blissful Intelligence has insisted that I should principally protect the Geden Teachings, but since I have already sworn to Padmasambhava that I would protect all of Buddha's Teachings in general, there is no way that I can principally protect only the Geden Teachings. Now Panchen, you yourself, among holders of the Geden Teachings these days, have the highest qualities of learning and realization. Not only that, you must arise as a wrathful protector of the Geden Teachings to fulfill the commitment you have previously made !".

Music Delighting the Ocean Of Protectors

[DharmaSpace]

This is a post worth resurrecting, it talks about Trichen Ngawang Chogden and how he chased a Gyalpo out of Gaden Monastery and the Dalai Lama has been saying that Dorje Shugden was chased away. Evidence points to the fact that it was not Dorje Shugden that was chased out, it was genuinely a spirit . in fact the following incarnation of Trichen Ngawang Chogden was a great devotee of Dorje Shugden. Trichen Ngawang Chogden was the Gaden tripa in his time and so was his next incarnation.

If Dorje Shudgen existed and was preserved by the Sakyas until its ascension during Kyabjye Pabongka's time. And Dorje Shugden was a spirit this is really saying the Sakyas have been duped by a mere spirit all this time. This does not make sense the Sakays have their very own great spiritual masters just like the other sects.   

[Zach]

Palden Lhamo does not lie but does Dorje Drakden ?

[Ensapa]

Interesting facts and there is a lot of inconsistencies with Nechung's statements, but it is interesting that HHDL chose to believe Nechung instead of Palden Lhamo or Trijang Rinpoche.

"Once a year, I put questions to the Nechung oracle. As many have suggested that the whole tradition of ‘life offering’ in relation to Dholgyal practice sprung from a vision that Tagpu Dorje Chang had, I wanted to query this. I posed the question that, if this indeed were something that can be traced back to such a vision, wouldn’t it be something that can be relied upon? The response was that visions are of two types. There are reliable ones that come due to blessings of higher powers and those that are in the nature of hindrances. This, it was stated, was a case of the latter. It was made quite clear then".

I love this post as it shows very clearly that the "reasons" for banning Shugden are all merely misinterpreted historical statements. However on HHDL's investigation of Tapu Dorje Chang's vision, it sounds rather funny because if Tapu Dorje Chang is proven to be a mahasiddha, and he has produced students who are highly esteemed masters who led many to enlightenment, then is there any more need to check?

If this is the case, then the Heruka and Vajrayogini transmissions that was based on visions by Pabongkha Rinpoche are not valid? But yet he still practices them? This is quite hard to understand, isnt it, the double standard that appears. Did he had to check those too??! Or rather is this weak reason merely an excuse to placate certain ears?

[Ensapa]

And oh, since I have learnt new info since i last posted here, I'm going to add something additional to the quote I posted:

"Once a year, I put questions to the Nechung oracle. As many have suggested that the whole tradition of ‘life offering’ in relation to Dholgyal practice sprung from a vision that Tagpu Dorje Chang had, I wanted to query this. I posed the question that, if this indeed were something that can be traced back to such a vision, wouldn’t it be something that can be relied upon? The response was that visions are of two types. There are reliable ones that come due to blessings of higher powers and those that are in the nature of hindrances. This, it was stated, was a case of the latter. It was made quite clear then".

Dorje Shugden's sadhana is not the only thing that came from Tapu Dorjechang.

Pabongkha went to see his guru Tapo Dorje Chang. His spiritual master was very special. He was born in Na Sur Tapo where his monastery was located. He had a long line of incarnations numbering four or five. The first Tapo Kha-cho Uncho while meditating, saw Tara, Chenrezig and they gave enpowerments to him. Tapo Dorje Chang also traveled to the pure lands. Yidams give him initiations such as "Cittamani Tara". He also held the thirteen deity initiation called "Da-pan Na-ja soon".

Then, we take a look at here:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/liberation-stories/

QUESTION: SINCE TAKPO RINPOCHE HAS BEEN CLAIMED TO HAVE DESTROYED HIS REFUGE VOWS BY TAKING DORJE SHUGDEN AS PROTECTOR, WHY WOULD THE DALAI LAMA WANT TO USE AND EVEN BESTOW EMPOWERMENT OF CITTAMANI TARA THROUGH THAT VERY LINEAGE? EVEN ABSURDLY ASSUMING THE FIRST TAKPO RINPOCHE’S VISION WAS PURE AND THE LATTER (SUDDENLY) IMPURE, THE TRANSMISSION STILL COMES THROUGH HIM (THE LATTER), SO WHAT GOOD COULD COME FROM IT, EXCEPT INFECTING THE MASSES WITH DEMONIC INFLUENCES?

If HHDL wants to question Dorje Shugden's sadhana, he should question Cittamani Tara's as well, since both came from the same master and same methods.