Near Death Experience. Proof that the "MIND" exist.

[Dorje Pakmo]

A Video About Near Death Experience

I came across this video on youtube recently, it’s an interview with a woman called Anita Moorjani. In the year 2006, she was dying of cancer, her body went into a state of coma at a hospital in Hong Kong, she experiences her emergence into non-physical and makes a choice to return back to the body – after this experience she becomes free of her fears/resistance and is able to heal her cancer fully within a month. It’s quite an amazing interview because she talks very clearly about the wholeness of our being and the well-being that’s inherent in our life-stream.

http://youtu.be/tjLouLHH-_I
	Small | Large

I was surfing the net a few days ago and came across this interesting article and video. This lady Anita Moorjani relates her experience of dying from cancer and coming back to life. What's more amazing is that she was subsequently healed from cancer within a month. The way she talks about how she died and coming back to life is very real and very closely related to the Buddhist belief of the "MIND". The doctor pronounce her dead and everyone around her thought that she was dead as her physical body has ceased to function. But Anita Moorjani was fully aware and could relate everything that was happening around her during that period of time, even the emotions of others as soon as she focus her awareness on them.

Can anyone share more about this kind of experience that you've read or heard about? Or if anyone can explain more about death and what happens after according to the teaching of Buddhism? What happens to our "mind', after the physical body cease to function? What do you think happen to Anita Moorjani? Why was she given a second chance? How come her cancer can be fully healed? What Anita Moorjani shared seems to have shed a bit of light of what happens after death.

[Dorje Pakmo]

The link to the article

http://www.calmdownmind.com/what-happens-after-death/

[Vajraprotector]

This is an interview in TIME magazine with Dr. Jeffrey Long who spent a decade researching near death experience. I have also included a video below of an interview with him.

Dr. Jeffrey Long: Evidence of the Afterlife - P1/3	Small | Large

Is There Such a Thing as Life After Death?
By Laura Fitzpatrick
Friday, Jan. 22, 2010

Is there life after death? Theologians can debate all they want, but radiation oncologist Dr. Jeffrey Long says if you look at the scientific evidence, the answer is unequivocally yes. Drawing on a decade's worth of research on near-death experiences — work that includes cataloguing the stories of some 1,600 people who have gone through them — he makes the case for that controversial conclusion in a new book, Evidence of the Afterlife. Medicine, Long says, cannot account for the consistencies in the accounts reported by people all over the world. He talked to TIME about the nature of near-death experience, the intersection between religion and science and the Oprah effect.
(See how you can change your genes.)

Medically speaking, what is a near-death experience?
A near-death experience has two components. The person has to be near death, which means physically compromised so severely that permanent death would occur if they did not improve: they're unconscious, or often clinically dead, with an absence of heartbeat and breathing. The second component [is that] at the time they're having a close brush with death, they have an experience. [It is] generally lucid [and] highly organized.
(See "The Year in Health 2009: From A to Z.")

How do you respond to skeptics who say there must be some biological or physiological basis for that kind of experience, which you say in the book is medically inexplicable?
There have been over 20 alternative, skeptical "explanations" for near-death experience. The reason is very clear: no one or several skeptical explanations make sense, even to the skeptics themselves. Or [else ]there wouldn't be so many.

You say there's less skepticism about near-death experiences than there used to be, as well as more awareness. Why is that?
Literally hundreds of scholarly articles have been written over the last 35 years about near-death experience. In addition to that, the media continues to present [evidence of] near-death experience. Hundreds of thousands of pages a month are read on our website, NDERF.org.

In the book you say that some critics argue that there's an "Oprah effect": that a lot of people who have had near-death experiences have heard about them elsewhere first. How do you account for that in your research?
We post to the website the near-death experience exactly as it was shared with us. Given the fact that every month 300,000 pages are read [by] over 40,000 unique visitors from all around the world, the chances of a copycat account from any media source not being picked up by any one of those people is exceedingly remote. Our quality-assurance check is the enormous visibility and the enormous number of visitors.
(See what happens when we die.)

You say this research has affected you a lot on a personal level. How?
I'm a physician who fights cancer. In spite of our best efforts, not everybody is going to be cured. My absolute understanding that there is an afterlife for all of us — and a wonderful afterlife — helps me face cancer, this terribly frightening and threatening disease, with more courage than I've ever faced it with before. I can be a better physician for my patients.

You say we can draw on near-death experiences to reach conclusions about life after actual death. But is that comparing apples and oranges?
Scientifically speaking, interviewing people that have permanently died is challenging. Obviously, given that impossibility, we have to do the next best thing. If these people have no brain function, like you have in a cardiac arrest, I think that is the best, closest model we're going to have to study whether or not conscious experience can occur apart from the physical brain. The research shows the overwhelming answer is absolutely yes.

You raise the idea that your work could have profound implications for religion. But is whether there is life after death really a scientific question, or a theological one?
I think we have an interesting blend. [This research] directly addresses what religions have been telling us for millenniums to accept on faith: that there is an afterlife, that there is some order and purpose to this universe, that there's some reason and purpose for us being here in earthly life. We're finding verification, if you will, for what so many religions have been saying. It's an important step toward bringing science and religion together.

Is there any aspect of human experience that you don't think science can touch?
Oh, absolutely. What happens after permanent death — after we're no longer able to interview people — is an absolute. To that extent, the work I do may always require some element of faith. But by the time you look at [the] evidence, the amount of faith you need to have [to believe in] life after death is substantially reduced.

From: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1955636,00.html

[Klein]

I remember that my grandmother was pronounced dead by a doctor and around 6 hours later, she woke up! I was around 10 years old. I remembered my mother crying when she received the phone call that grandma past away. Mom told us that we would be going to my grandma's place the following morning. She lived in another state.

When I woke up, in the morning, I was told that we didn't have to go to grandma's place anymore. I later found out that grandma miraculously woke up. She told my mom and my aunts the following:

My grandma found herself going to the hell realm. She was kneeling before the God of the Hell Realm. The God told her that her time to die is not up yet and she should return. My grandma said that she didn't want to return as she was ready to reincarnate. The God told her she must return and there's no negotiation. He summoned the guards to take her back. She tried to fight the guards and the next thing she knew was she woke up.

[Positive Change]

All the accounts of Near Death Experience (NDE) has very specific descriptions. Most of them correlate to the Buddhist scriptures as explained below. It is interesting to note that most people, though non Buddhist could have such 'accurate' accounts of what happens. I have highlighted these interesting points!

Afterlife - Buddhist Beliefs

Buddha accepted the basic Hindu doctrines of reincarnation and karma, as well as the notion that the ultimate goal of the religious life is to escape the cycle of death and rebirth. Buddha asserted that what keeps us bound to the death/rebirth process is desire, desire in the sense of wanting or craving anything in the world. Hence, the goal of getting off the Ferris wheel of reincarnation necessarily involves freeing oneself from desire. Nirvana is the Buddhist term for liberation. Nirvana literally means extinction, and it refers to the extinction of all craving, an extinction that allows one to become liberated.

Where Buddha departed most radically from Hinduism was in his doctrine of "anatta", the notion that individuals do not possess eternal souls. Instead of eternal souls, individuals consist of a "bundle" of habits, memories, sensations, desires, and so forth, which together delude one into thinking that he or she consists of a stable, lasting self. Despite its transitory nature, this false self hangs together as a unit, and even reincarnates in body after body. In Buddhism, as well as in Hinduism, life in a corporeal body is viewed negatively, as the source of all suffering. Hence, the goal is to obtain release. In Buddhism, this means abandoning the false sense of self so that the bundle of memories and impulses disintegrates, leaving nothing to reincarnate and hence nothing to experience pain.

From the perspective of present-day, world-affirming Western society, the Buddhist vision cannot but appear distinctly unappealing: Not only is this life portrayed as unattractive, the prospect of nirvana, in which one dissolves into nothingness, seems even less desirable. A modern-day Buddha might respond, however, that our reaction to being confronted with the dark side of life merely shows how insulated we are from the pain and suffering that is so fundamental to human existence.

Following death, according to Tibetan Buddhism, the spirit of the departed goes through a process lasting forty-nine days that is divided into three stages called "bardos." At the conclusion of the bardo, the person either enters nirvana or returns to Earth for rebirth.

It is imperative that the dying individual remain fully aware for as long as possible because the thoughts one has while passing over into death heavily influence the nature of both the after-death experience and, if one fails to achieve nirvana, the state of one's next incarnation.

Stage one of the Bardo (called the "Chikai" Bardo), the bardo of dying, begins at death and extends from half a day to four days. This is the period of time necessary for the departed to realize that they have dropped the body. The consciousness of the departed has an ecstatic experience of the primary "Clear White Light" at the death moment. Everyone gets at least a fleeting glimpse of the light. The more spiritually developed see it longer, and are able to go beyond it to a higher level of reality. The average person, however, drops into the lesser state of the secondary "clear light."

In stage two (called the "Chonyid" Bardo), the bardo of Luminous Mind, the departed encounters the hallucinations resulting from the karma created during life. Unless highly developed, the individual will feel that they are still in the body. The departed then encounters various apparitions, the "peaceful" and "wrathful" deities, that are actually personifications of human feelings and that, to successfully achieve nirvana, the deceased must encounter unflinchingly. Only the most evolved individuals can skip the bardo experience altogether and transit directly into a paradise realm. Stage three (called the "Sidpa" Bardo), the bardo of rebirth, is the process of reincarnation.

Buddhist and NDE Correlations

The Tibetan account of the first bardo after death shows striking parallels with the near-death experiences of people who have died, experienced themselves floating out of their bodies, having what appears to be real afterlife events, and then being revived.

The second bardo is an experience with divine entities which parallels near-death accounts where a person experiences visions of heaven, hell, and judgment. Scholars have also been interested in the parallels between the psychedelic and psychotic states, and experiences of "astral projection."

The third bardo involving the reincarnation of a person's karmic energy by choosing and entering a new body to be born agrees with many near-death accounts that affirm reincarnation.

The purpose behind the Buddhist bardo states after death is to provide the dying an opportunity to become enlightened and attain Buddha-hood, or if enlightenment is not attained, to secure a favorable rebirth. As it is with Buddhism, the goal to be attained during near-death experiences is to become one with God. Experiencers have described this as a "merging" process and "becoming God." This loss of ego and at-one-ment aspect involved in near-death experiences and the Buddhist bardo journey are identical.

The most remarkable correlation between Buddhism and near-death accounts is the encounter with a divine light. Buddhists refer to this light as the "Clear White Light" and the Tibetan Book of the Dead's description of it is remarkably similar to the Being of light in near-death experiences. Buddhists believe this light to be the light from all the enlightened ones which is indistinguishable from true essence of everyone. As it is with Buddhism, near-death experiences have described this light in the same way. For example, Mellen-Thomas Benedict saw the light change into various personalities such as Jesus and Buddha. Other experiencers affirm the light to be everyone and everything. Encounters with beings of light and darkness described in near-death experiences can be found in the "peaceful" and "wrathful" deities encountered in the Buddhist afterlife. At some point in the bardo states, many of the karmic essences of individuals feel a desire, a "pull", to return to the physical world. This phenomenon also appears in many near-death accounts when the individual is given a choice to stay or return and this choice results in the individual returning from the near-death condition. Also, as it is with Buddhism, near-death experiences support the concept of reincarnation.

The number of days (forty-nine) given in the Tibetan Book of the Dead is likely symbolic, although the Tibetans themselves, like all people who are strict religionists, interpret it literally.

The comparison between the Tibetan and Egyptian Books of the Dead, Taoism, and Kabbalistic conceptions, also reveals similarities. All of them with the exception of Tibetan Buddhism view the soul as composition of elemental components that separates after death; each component entering into its own world. Tibetan Buddhism describes an aspect of the human personality passing through a number of different afterlife bardo experiences.


Click on this link for an interesting account of a person named Mellen-Thomas Benedict:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html


Watch this video of Oprah Winfrey Interviewing Betty Eadie who "died", "met Jesus" and "came back"! In the clip Oprah also showed a clip that the Elizabeth Taylor too had an account of NDE:

http://youtu.be/6uUiYFaawTU
	Small | Large

Here is another clip of Betty Eadie telling her story in  a 2002 documentary:

http://youtu.be/TX2cJ74jsH8
	Small | Large

[DSFriend]

There are more information available today to proof that reincarnation exists, and the mind is more than just the brain or random firing of neurons.

There are so much information from the scientific world, subjecting people to Past Life Hypnotic regression. If there are past lives, it's pretty simple to deduce that there must be future lives.

There are extensive teachings in the Buddhist world about the mind. The east has perfected the science of the mind which is of a great treasure to offer the rest of the world. There are no religious meditations which anyone can practice to realize that we are not our bodies... and to be able to perceive the mind as separate from the body. There are also higher tantric practices which gives the practitioner the abilities or attainments to transcend the material world and physical body

There are random, non religious people of all cultures, age, coming from different parts of the world who claims to remember their past lives or have glimpses of what is to come such a mother's instinct or the so called six sense and psychics.

Why do we not believe that reincarnation exists when millions of others believe it exists? Do we subject what we believe or the conclusions we make with just as much scepticism? Why not?

[ilikeshugden]

When we are about to die, it is mostly said that we see a white light or a person we love. It is in-fact our mind manifesting in that form. The white light is the mind in it's raw form. If it is a person we love, it is to help us with our transition into our new life. That is what I believe.

[Tammy]

My ex-colleague is a mother of 4 children. Each time she went into labour, complications will arise and she had experienced caesarean sections four times!! She told us each she is under general anesthesia she will have out of body experience! She will find herself in a gloomy place with overcast sky, everyone around her was grayish in colour and she would be taken in a vehicle traveling in top speed, go fr places to places.

[Jessie Fong]

My ex-colleague is a mother of 4 children. Each time she went into labour, complications will arise and she had experienced caesarean sections four times!! She told us each she is under general anesthesia she will have out of body experience! She will find herself in a gloomy place with overcast sky, everyone around her was grayish in colour and she would be taken in a vehicle traveling in top speed, go fr places to places.

I have heard of near-death experiences and where one actually experiences out-of-body state, looking back at your own physical body.

For this friend of yours, she must have cheated death 4 times.  And to top that off, it was the same experience repeated.  It's like going back to sleep and enter the state where you continue with your previous dream, but this time around, it's the same dream.

Eerie - it's like deja vu.

[biggyboy]

There are many books written by many different authors to share the near death experience and never fails to fascinate us humans. We have this obsession of wanting to know what happens after death and where do we go. These questions cannot be answered, for no one really returns after death to tell us where they have been and what they saw. Therefore near death experience is the next best thing.

Men have always endeavored to study and to explore the mystery of the mind. Edgar Cayce, an American born in 1877 was probably one of the most well known.  He was sometimes called the “ Prophet of the New Age”.  He did a lot of research and studies into the mysteries of the mind, about ESP, about psychic experience and even on reincarnation.

"The Edgar Cayce readings emphasize the spiritual nature of humankind. However, because of the demands of life we frequently overlook the truest part of ourselves, which is our connection to spirit. Although we possess physical bodies and mental attitudes, ultimately our deepest connection is to our spiritual source." http://www.edgarcayce.org/are/spiritualGrowth.aspx

When Edgar Cayce died in 1945, he left well over fourteen thousand documented stenographic records of the telepathic – clairvoyant statements he had given for more than eight thousand different people over a period of forty-three years. His writings and research gave concrete proof that the mind exists.

A friend of mine had a similar NDE when she had a spinal operation few years ago. After the operation, she was in a coma for 5 days. She woke up and told us the story of how she walked through a tunnel towards a brilliantly white light ahead of her. Whilst walking towards the light she came across friends and relatives she knew before who had since passed on urging her to go back since it wasn’t time yet for her to come to that place.  She then woke up and lived for another five years before passing on.

[ratanasutra]

I do not have experience of NDEs neither know someone who have experience it. I came across this article of DEATH AND DYING IN THE TIBETAN BUDDHIST TRADITION Compiled by: Ven. Pende Hawter which i feel that this meditation on death can be follow so that we are concious of what we are doing and not create more of non-virtue conduct and realize only when the time of death come which will be too late.

Contemplation and meditation on death and impermanence are regarded as very important in Buddhism for two reasons :
(1) it is only by recognising how precious and how short life is that we are most likely to make it meaningful and to live it fully and
(2) by understanding the death process and familiarizing ourself with it, we can remove fear at the time of death and ensure a good rebirth.

Because the way in which we live our lives and our state of mind at death directly influence our future lives, it is said that the aim or mark of a spiritual practitioner is to have no fear or regrets at the time of death. People who practice to the best of their abilities will die, it is said, in a state of great bliss. The mediocre practitioner will die happily. Even the initial practitioner will have neither fear nor dread at the time of death. So one should aim at achieving at least the smallest of these results.

There are two common meditations on death in the Tibetan tradition. The first looks at the certainty and imminence of death and what will be of benefit at the time of death, in order to motivate us to make the best use of our lives. The second is a simulation or rehearsal of the actual death process, which familiarizes us with death and takes away the fear of the unknown, thus allowing us to die skilfully. Traditionally, in Buddhist countries, one is also encouraged to go to a cemetery or burial ground to contemplate on death and become familiar with this inevitable event.

The first of these meditations is known as the nine-round death meditation, in which we contemplate the three roots, the nine reasonings, and the three convictions, as described below:

A. DEATH IS CERTAIN

1. There is no possible way to escape death. No-one ever has, not even Jesus, Buddha, etc. Of the current world population of over 5 billion people, almost none will be alive in 100 years time.
2. Life has a definite, inflexible limit and each moment brings us closer to the finality of this life. We are dying from the moment we are born.
3. Death comes in a moment and its time is unexpected. All that separates us from the next life is one breath.

Conviction: To practise the spiritual path and ripen our inner potential by cultivating positive mental qualities and abandoning disturbing mental qualities.


B. THE TIME OF DEATH IS UNCERTAIN

4. The duration of our lifespan is uncertain. The young can die before the old, the healthy before the sick, etc.
5. There are many causes and circumstances that lead to death, but few that favour the sustenance of life.
Even things that sustain life can kill us, for example food, motor vehicles, property.
6. The weakness and fragility of one's physical body contribute to life's uncertainty.
The body can be easily destroyed by disease or accident, for example cancer, AIDS, vehicle accidents, other disasters.

Conviction: To ripen our inner potential now, without delay.


C. THE ONLY THING THAT CAN HELP US AT THE TIME OF DEATH IS OUR MENTAL/SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT
(because all that goes on to the next life is our mind with its karmic (positive or negative) imprints.)

7. Worldly possessions such as wealth, position, money can't help
8. Relatives and friends can neither prevent death nor go with us.
9. Even our own precious body is of no help to us. We have to leave it behind like a shell, an empty husk, an overcoat.

Conviction: To ripen our inner potential purely, without staining our efforts with attachment to worldly concerns.

 

[Dondrup Shugden]

I do not have experience of NDEs neither know someone who have experience it. I came across this article of DEATH AND DYING IN THE TIBETAN BUDDHIST TRADITION Compiled by: Ven. Pende Hawter which i feel that this meditation on death can be follow so that we are concious of what we are doing and not create more of non-virtue conduct and realize only when the time of death come which will be too late.

Contemplation and meditation on death and impermanence are regarded as very important in Buddhism for two reasons :
(1) it is only by recognising how precious and how short life is that we are most likely to make it meaningful and to live it fully and
(2) by understanding the death process and familiarizing ourself with it, we can remove fear at the time of death and ensure a good rebirth.

Because the way in which we live our lives and our state of mind at death directly influence our future lives, it is said that the aim or mark of a spiritual practitioner is to have no fear or regrets at the time of death. People who practice to the best of their abilities will die, it is said, in a state of great bliss. The mediocre practitioner will die happily. Even the initial practitioner will have neither fear nor dread at the time of death. So one should aim at achieving at least the smallest of these results.

There are two common meditations on death in the Tibetan tradition. The first looks at the certainty and imminence of death and what will be of benefit at the time of death, in order to motivate us to make the best use of our lives. The second is a simulation or rehearsal of the actual death process, which familiarizes us with death and takes away the fear of the unknown, thus allowing us to die skilfully. Traditionally, in Buddhist countries, one is also encouraged to go to a cemetery or burial ground to contemplate on death and become familiar with this inevitable event.

The first of these meditations is known as the nine-round death meditation, in which we contemplate the three roots, the nine reasonings, and the three convictions, as described below:

A. DEATH IS CERTAIN

1. There is no possible way to escape death. No-one ever has, not even Jesus, Buddha, etc. Of the current world population of over 5 billion people, almost none will be alive in 100 years time.
2. Life has a definite, inflexible limit and each moment brings us closer to the finality of this life. We are dying from the moment we are born.
3. Death comes in a moment and its time is unexpected. All that separates us from the next life is one breath.

Conviction: To practise the spiritual path and ripen our inner potential by cultivating positive mental qualities and abandoning disturbing mental qualities.


B. THE TIME OF DEATH IS UNCERTAIN

4. The duration of our lifespan is uncertain. The young can die before the old, the healthy before the sick, etc.
5. There are many causes and circumstances that lead to death, but few that favour the sustenance of life.
Even things that sustain life can kill us, for example food, motor vehicles, property.
6. The weakness and fragility of one's physical body contribute to life's uncertainty.
The body can be easily destroyed by disease or accident, for example cancer, AIDS, vehicle accidents, other disasters.

Conviction: To ripen our inner potential now, without delay.


C. THE ONLY THING THAT CAN HELP US AT THE TIME OF DEATH IS OUR MENTAL/SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT
(because all that goes on to the next life is our mind with its karmic (positive or negative) imprints.)

7. Worldly possessions such as wealth, position, money can't help
8. Relatives and friends can neither prevent death nor go with us.
9. Even our own precious body is of no help to us. We have to leave it behind like a shell, an empty husk, an overcoat.

Conviction: To ripen our inner potential purely, without staining our efforts with attachment to worldly concerns.

From the day we are born there is only on certainty that we will die.  When and how and where will never be known.

However, in our delusion, we do not think of death nor rebirth and live our precious human filled with self indulgence and as though we do not want to miss out on anything.

The truth in Buddhism and to meditate on death is very powerful as at the point of our mind leaving our body we have no fear of losing anything.

When that happens, we will start on our journey into bardo and a better rebirth.  I was told that the last thought before death will trigger the positive or negative karma and define our rebirth in to the appropriate realms.

[psylotripitaka]

Biggyboy, I hear what you are saying, but, many Buddhist Masters have died, incarnated, then explained very precisely what happens during the death, bardo, and rebirth process and the various realms of rebirth both in and out of samsara. If we read about NDE's, astral projection, lucid dreaming, and particularly the 9 mixings of completion stage of Highest Yoga Tantra (see Clear Light of Bliss), we can gain confidence that the Masters know what they're talking about. The many anecdotes of reincarnation as well as those regarding precise clairvoyance and Masters leaving accurate details of their next place of birth all prove that they do know very precisely what happens and that their explanations are the truth.

Positive Change, your post is excellent. But, I think it is important that people understand that there is an approach to life that embraces desire - the Vajrayana. With a correct understanding of Buddha's final vehicle, people can accomplish permanent Liberation from suffering and permanent fulfillment through diligent training.

According to the Vajrayana, it is the very subtle wind and mind abiding at the heart that move from life to life, and are the basis for imputing an 'I' or self, but they are not the real self because there isn't one. When we fall asleep, the gross winds supporting gross sense and mental conscious dissolve inwards. These dissolve into three subtle minds, and this dissolves into the very subtle mind of clear light of sleep. From this arises the dream body and from there gross awareness of the waking consciousness comes. Similarly, when we die the gross energy winds dissolve inwards until the clear light of death. From this clear light arises the bardo body, and when that enters a more coarse body the gross sense and mental consciousness of the next life arise. According to Vajrayana, our contaminated aggregates of body and mind - contaminated by ordinary appearances, and ordinary conceptions - is samsara. To end samsara, we must cut the cycle of uncontrolled rebirth in contaminated aggregates by  consciously hijacking this process of death, bardo, and rebirth and transforming them into the three bodies of a Buddha. This is done through imagination in generation stage, then directly during completion stage. In both, we are changing the basis of imputation of our 'I' to the pure aggregates of a Buddha. Those with powerful experience of the 9 mixings can maintain this practice during waking meditation, during sleep training, then at death, through the bardo, and into the next life. Some are able to choose very precisely where they're going in order to continue their training. Some accomplish enlightenment during this process. We have the inner technology to do this right now! How fortunate we are!

For more detailed reading, visit Lamrim commentaries and Vajrayana commentaries particularly regarding the 8 signs of dissolution, clear light, illusory body, the 9 mixings and so on.

[psylotripitaka]

Biggyboy, for example, how could they know that when a bardo being sees their future parents copulating, they get angry and join the copulation by entering the fertilized ovum? Or the precise details of how the sense and mental faculties develop and at what stage? Or that a fetus experiences extreme pains of scalding when the pregnant mother drinks something hot like tea? They aren't just making stuff up so they can control us and solicit money and sex. They are teaching us the truth so that we will develop the desire to attain permanent liberation from contaminated aggregates.

We can gain further confidence they are telling the truth by gaining deeper experience of lucid dreaming and dream yogas, astral projection, and especially powerful concentration and completion stage experience. With those experiences, we come to know directly the truth of these things because we develop clairvoyance and other realizations that are direct proof.

If someone does not believe this, the burden of proof is on them. Nobody can prove this stuff is not true, and their reasoning is not only inconclusive but carries the burden of distorted perceptions. Even science shows how faulty our perception of the world is, yet people who deny all this stuff are using faulty faculties to draw their conclusions.

At the very least, who on earth would not want a deathless body and a mind free from suffering! By disbelieving the overwhelming evidence, we needlessly trap ourself in ordinariness and prolong our suffering and confusion.