Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche are the Dalai Lamas successors?

[DharmaDefender]

An interesting video to share with everyone...

Dalai Lama's discussion with his successor Karmapa & Ling Rinpoche 2012

Is the translation accurate? Is His Holiness the Dalai Lama really saying that Ling Rinpoche and the Karmapa will carry on his work after he manifests clear light? Because I remember when it came to this article (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/will-the-karmapa-save-dorje-shugden/), a lot of the comments on Facebook were from the Karmapas supporters saying that theres no way will he take over as the head of Tibet because thats just not how it is. Given the editing as well, and how they zoomed in on Ling Rinpoches face, I am highly suspicious...

Interesting also that of the two lamas His Holiness says will take over his work after he is gone, Trijang Rinpoche is not one of them. You would think that such a conversation would include both his tutors. So why is Trijang Rinpoche, his own guru, not there? It can only be because he still practises Dorje Shugden...right?!

[vajratruth]

This is yet another twist and now with Ling Rinpoche involved. I wonder if the conversation the Dalai Lama had with both the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley and Ling Rinpoche is what is being suggested. If it is true, it would be interesting to see how two young lamas from different sects would take Tibetan Buddhism into the future. But to me that it does indicate that on the one hand, the Dalai Lama does wish to preserve the Gelugpa lineage and on the other hand, His Holiness is also trying to re-balance the power that the Gelugs have held for some time.

Moving into the future it would be best if politics is left out of the Dharma altogether and to that extent, what His Holiness did to transfer political power away from the office of the Dalai Lama was something good. Perhaps as further insurance, having a joint leadership consisting of a Kagyupa leader and a Gelugpa leader is an added measure although i have no idea how this is ging to work out. But all these are mere speculations.

From the perspective of the Dorje Shugden practice, it looks bright. Both the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche have never spoken out against the practice. Karmapa Ogyen Trinley in the past has advocated strongly for personal freedom and Ling Rinpoche still holds a close relationship with the 101st Gaden Trisur http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/are-you-friends-with-a-shugden-practitioner/) who is openly a Shugden lama.

[Zach]

Wonderful they will both be brilliant ! 

[Namdrol]

definitely it is due to Dorje Shugden issue that the Dalai Lama is not picking Trijang Rinpoche as his successor. i am sure the Dalai Lama would pick Trijang Rinpoche on condition that Trijang Rinpoche gives up Dorje Shugden. but it seems that Trijang Rinpoche is still not being seen around Dalai Lama recently, instead, Trijang Rinpoche is publicly seen with many Dorje Shugden lamas in Europe! so it is clear what Trijang Rinpoche's stance is, the position of "the Dalai Lama's successor" does not appeal to him, He (Trijang Rinpoche) chooses guru devotion (towards Pabongkha Rinpoche) over politics. A truly great being.

[Ensapa]

definitely it is due to Dorje Shugden issue that the Dalai Lama is not picking Trijang Rinpoche as his successor. i am sure the Dalai Lama would pick Trijang Rinpoche on condition that Trijang Rinpoche gives up Dorje Shugden. but it seems that Trijang Rinpoche is still not being seen around Dalai Lama recently, instead, Trijang Rinpoche is publicly seen with many Dorje Shugden lamas in Europe! so it is clear what Trijang Rinpoche's stance is, the position of "the Dalai Lama's successor" does not appeal to him, He (Trijang Rinpoche) chooses guru devotion (towards Pabongkha Rinpoche) over politics. A truly great being.

If I remember correctly, Pabongkha Rinpoche himself was not interested in being the regent of Tibet so it was passed to Reting Rinpoche . Pabongkha Rinpoche has always insisted that religion should not be mixed with secular affairs (which today, is quoted out of context by some scholars to make him look like he is against the 13th Dalai Lama) and Buddhists around the world also agree that Buddhism and politics do not mix in any way at all. So Trijang Rinpoche is just continuing that spiritual tradition of not getting involved with secular affairs so that he can focus exclusively on the Dharma. For that, we must really respect Trijang Rinpoche.

[Big Uncle]

Actually, I don't think the Dalai Lama was talking about them becoming his sucessor but nurturing the next generation of Lamas that will lead many practitioners. I don't think either Ling Rinpoche or the Karmapa can take over from the Dalai Lama because I think it would be an extraordinary Lama and although the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche are extraordinary Lamas as well. I am not sure but the Karmapa would not be the best candidate for successor because of the controversy of the existence of other Karmapa candidates and the recent discovery of the large haul of Chinese currency discovered within the possession of the Karmapa ladrang. Ling Rinpoche is the likely candidate for this but I think Trijang Rinpoche would be an even better choice. What do you guys think?

[dsiluvu]

Actually, I don't think the Dalai Lama was talking about them becoming his sucessor but nurturing the next generation of Lamas that will lead many practitioners. I don't think either Ling Rinpoche or the Karmapa can take over from the Dalai Lama because I think it would be an extraordinary Lama and although the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche are extraordinary Lamas as well. I am not sure but the Karmapa would not be the best candidate for successor because of the controversy of the existence of other Karmapa candidates and the recent discovery of the large haul of Chinese currency discovered within the possession of the Karmapa ladrang. Ling Rinpoche is the likely candidate for this but I think Trijang Rinpoche would be an even better choice. What do you guys think?

I agree with what you said Big Uncle... Yes I don't think Ling Rinpoche and the Karmapa can take over from His Holiness but definitely they are definitely great leaders! I think it would take someone as gigantic as His Holiness to step in to the shoes the Dalai Lamas... at this point of time, I cannot imagine who has that kind of pull and charisma to bring all together except His Holiness Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche. This is definitely the only one that cross my mind. But yes this is all just speculations of course. Whoever who takes over from His Holiness definitely need to be most influential. And at this point of time, we have been hearing that His Holiness has been recently saying a lot of positive things and praising Trijang Rinpoche. Would be great if we have the recording of His Holiness saying such things, if I am not mistaken it was just recently during His Holiness teachings in Drepung? 

[Rinchen]

I agree that Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche would be great teachers in the future, but not someone that would have a great affluence in political issues. This is because if there are two people that are holding the position of successors of His Holiness Dalai Lama, who should we be listening to if Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche have different views and predictions on issues?

I also strongly believe in having a separation line between religious figures and political issues. Reason being, I feel that if one is highly involved in political work, they will not have the time and energy to be able to commit to other things. Let even say Dhrama.

[DharmaDefender]

If I remember correctly, Pabongkha Rinpoche himself was not interested in being the regent of Tibet so it was passed to Reting Rinpoche . Pabongkha Rinpoche has always insisted that religion should not be mixed with secular affairs (which today, is quoted out of context by some scholars to make him look like he is against the 13th Dalai Lama) and Buddhists around the world also agree that Buddhism and politics do not mix in any way at all. So Trijang Rinpoche is just continuing that spiritual tradition of not getting involved with secular affairs so that he can focus exclusively on the Dharma. For that, we must really respect Trijang Rinpoche.

Where did you read that Ensapa? It would be keeping with his previous lives when he didnt really play any political role...

If the Dalai Lama has really appointed the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche as his successors, it should be interesting to see what happens considering the Dalai Lama has relinquished secular power to Lobsang Sangay. Putting a Karma Kagyu and a Gelug as the spiritual heads of Tibet, how would that work? And what effect will that have on the Dorje Shugden ban? Up until this point, neither have been particularly vehemently against Dorje Shugden...so will they continue the Dalai Lamas stance (or in His Holiness words, continue his legacy) after he manifests clear light? Or will they forge their own path, and maybe even lift the ban?

[Ensapa]

Where did you read that Ensapa? It would be keeping with his previous lives when he didnt really play any political role...

If the Dalai Lama has really appointed the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche as his successors, it should be interesting to see what happens considering the Dalai Lama has relinquished secular power to Lobsang Sangay. Putting a Karma Kagyu and a Gelug as the spiritual heads of Tibet, how would that work? And what effect will that have on the Dorje Shugden ban? Up until this point, neither have been particularly vehemently against Dorje Shugden...so will they continue the Dalai Lamas stance (or in His Holiness words, continue his legacy) after he manifests clear light? Or will they forge their own path, and maybe even lift the ban?

It was from one of those research papers that I have read about the 13th Dalai Lama a while ago, but i cant remember the exact article. It said something along the lines that after the 13th Dalai Lama passed away the regentship was offered to Pabongkha but he refused and said that religion should not mix with politics. In the previous line, it was quoted that Pabongkha Rinpoche discouraged the 13th Dalai Lama's efforts to try and modernize the army which to me was out of context.

If HHDL passes into clear light and he is grooming both Ling Rinpoche and the Karmapa, both known to be pro Dorje Shugden in their past lives, it would mean very well that they would be either lifting the ban or promoting Dorje Shugden to a whole new level as the protector of Buddhism as a whole, based on the 16th Karmapa's prophecy about Dorje Shugden.

[Tenzin Malgyur]

Dharma defender, I agree with you on why Trijang Rinpoche is not included in the discussion on Dalai Lama's successors. I also remember watching a video in which HH Dalai Lama mentioned that Trijang Rinpoche is the only person allowed to practice Dorje Shugden. What about the current Ling Rinpoche? Is he a DS practitioner just as his glorious previous life did? As Big uncle said, it would take an extraordinary Lama to succeed His Holiness, so with all respect to the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche, I would say that Trijang Rinpoche is a better choice.

[Ensapa]

Dharma defender, I agree with you on why Trijang Rinpoche is not included in the discussion on Dalai Lama's successors. I also remember watching a video in which HH Dalai Lama mentioned that Trijang Rinpoche is the only person allowed to practice Dorje Shugden. What about the current Ling Rinpoche? Is he a DS practitioner just as his glorious previous life did? As Big uncle said, it would take an extraordinary Lama to succeed His Holiness, so with all respect to the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche, I would say that Trijang Rinpoche is a better choice.

It would be quite clear to me that the present Ling Rinpoche is still a practitioner because of the way he acts. But of course, everyone gets to be discreet about their practice because Dorje Shugden is a tantric practice and there is no need to announce his practice to the whole world. If the Dalai Lama's Karmapa is the 'real' one, he should also be a pro Dorje Shugden Lama as well as it would be consistent with his previous life and it seems that neither of the Karmapas are speaking out against Dorje Shugden when many Nyingma lamas are publicly denouncing Dorje Shugden and spreading fear against him.

[Positive Change]

Actually, I don't think the Dalai Lama was talking about them becoming his sucessor but nurturing the next generation of Lamas that will lead many practitioners. I don't think either Ling Rinpoche or the Karmapa can take over from the Dalai Lama because I think it would be an extraordinary Lama and although the Karmapa and Ling Rinpoche are extraordinary Lamas as well. I am not sure but the Karmapa would not be the best candidate for successor because of the controversy of the existence of other Karmapa candidates and the recent discovery of the large haul of Chinese currency discovered within the possession of the Karmapa ladrang. Ling Rinpoche is the likely candidate for this but I think Trijang Rinpoche would be an even better choice. What do you guys think?

I agree with Big Uncle here... I do not think it would be this obvious that HHDL would video himself "choosing" a successor. It must be, as Big Uncle says, nurturing these two young Lamas to lead the next generation and not necessarily "take over" as every High Lama has their role to play.

With regards to HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche taking over the reigns so to speak... I reckon it is only befitting as he is after all very much revered and respected and has a much wider reach from east to west!

[Ensapa]

I agree with Big Uncle here... I do not think it would be this obvious that HHDL would video himself "choosing" a successor. It must be, as Big Uncle says, nurturing these two young Lamas to lead the next generation and not necessarily "take over" as every High Lama has their role to play.

With regards to HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche taking over the reigns so to speak... I reckon it is only befitting as he is after all very much revered and respected and has a much wider reach from east to west!

Trijang Rinpoche in the US can benefit so many people when compared to him being cooped up in Dharamsala. If he was still in Dharamsala, I do not think that he would be able to travel everywhere or find the appropriate sponsors that would allow him to reach out to many people, or go to give initiations in Rabten Choling because I can imagine that the amount of sponsors that can be found in Dharamsala would be quite limited, not to mention that there are many tulkus there who would also need to find sponsors for their own Dharma works. There is no competition for sponsors in the US and Trijang Rinpoche can grow comfortably there.