Author Topic: Dorje Shugden Canada  (Read 8412 times)

Lineageholder

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Dorje Shugden Canada
« on: July 29, 2012, 08:58:02 AM »
Hello friends,

Does anyone know anything about this website entry:

http://www.hotfrog.ca/Companies/Dorje-Shugden-Canada

It had attracted unfavourable comments on Tenzin Peljor's blog:

http://thedorjeshugdengroup.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/nkt-chaplaincy-nkt-business-nkt-research/#comment-3188

I can't find the objectionable comments that are referred to. Nobody from NKT would have put this up -if you notice, there is a link to this website, although it gives the address of KMC Canada. If someone here is responsible for this entry, could you please remove it?

Many thanks

Mana

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Re: Dorje Shugden Canada
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2012, 09:25:43 AM »
Never heard of this and never saw it before today. Have no idea what it is about.
 
Mana

thaimonk

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Re: Dorje Shugden Canada
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2012, 06:44:14 PM »
It's interesting it mentions that most will not consider NKT a genuine Buddhist sect.

What is a genuine Buddhist sect. Does a Buddhist sect from Tibetan origin need the approval and seal of genuinity to be authentic? If so from who? The Dalai Lama?

Many sects and sub-sects within Tibetan Buddhism do not have the 'seal' of being genuine from Dalai Lama yet they are practiced. Is it yet necessary to have Dalai Lama's endorsement to be genuine? Why or why not?

Does NKT need the seal of authenticity from the Monasteries or anyone? If not what would be the guideline for any dharma lineage and practice to be authentic now and in the future?

Who says yes it is genuine? Where do we go to check?

What about teachers? Who is to say who is genuine or not? Or whether their teachings are authentic or not?



Amitabha

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Re: Dorje Shugden Canada
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2012, 02:52:48 AM »
The flesh body of an enlightened being, Hui-neng (Sixth Patriarch of Chan Buddhism) was enshrined in the memorial hall at Nanhua Temple in Southern China. There is no disciple from Chan lineage practising Chan Buddhism erected Hui-neng statue, offering and extoll supremely over other Buddha or Bodhisavatta / Vajrasavatt statue. For practice of Dorje Shugden not to be deviated, they should follow this principle offering Buddha or vajrasavatt as their principle teacher instead of Dorje Shugden. Any discrepancy, they should refer to dharma as their guiding teacher according to Buddha Shakyamuni. :P

Ensapa

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Re: Dorje Shugden Canada
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2012, 06:42:49 AM »
It's interesting it mentions that most will not consider NKT a genuine Buddhist sect.
Sorry to say but this was cooked up by FPMT students. They were the ones who started this idea that NKT is not a genuine Buddhist sect and that Geshe Keslang Gyatso is not a Geshe because he was expelled from Sera and also because he practiced Dorje Shugden and that he is against the Dalai Lama. Who else would spread these information..? its kinda common knowledge by now that it came from them...sorry

What is a genuine Buddhist sect. Does a Buddhist sect from Tibetan origin need the approval and seal of genuinity to be authentic? If so from who? The Dalai Lama?
To the common folk, yes, it is the Dalai Lama that is supposed to 'approve' of every tradition and tulku and lama or else they are not genuine. HHDL's influence and power has grown in this way over the years.

Many sects and sub-sects within Tibetan Buddhism do not have the 'seal' of being genuine from Dalai Lama yet they are practiced. Is it yet necessary to have Dalai Lama's endorsement to be genuine? Why or why not?
In reality, no, but to common perception, especially those who do not know much about Buddhism and/or got it from the wrong/misleading source, HHDL is an authoritative figure, a Buddhist pope of the Tibetans when he's actually their secular leader in the form of a monk. in any case, public perception is only based on popular belief, or beliefs popularized by certain individuals and may or may not be true.

Does NKT need the seal of authenticity from the Monasteries or anyone? If not what would be the guideline for any dharma lineage and practice to be authentic now and in the future?
they are an institution themselves and they have their own way of checking and certifying and they are effectively no longer part of Ganden, Sera and Drepung. So standard monastic standards dont apply to them anymore.

Who says yes it is genuine? Where do we go to check?
There's no reason to 'check' for authenticity. For me, i would examine the teachings and not the teachers and the results on its students. Its a more surefire way compared to checking against a tradition.

What about teachers? Who is to say who is genuine or not? Or whether their teachings are authentic or not?
In this, i would say whether or not they are approved by their teachers and if they have a lineage, and whether or not the teacher have their vows intact based on their actions and conduct.

This debacle of looking for a genuine teacher and lineage and Dharma center has been going on for long enough. Sadly many people engage in vigorous checking not based on the motivation to learn, but based entirely on the fear of getting into a cult. Common sense and the right motivation would help in discerning...but i guess in this day and age that is what people lack.

beggar

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Re: Dorje Shugden Canada
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2012, 09:21:30 AM »
I believe the most important aspect in checking the authenticity of a teacher and his teachings is in the sources that he quotes for each teaching. In every of his teachings / initiations, every Lama should be able to state the exact source from which he received this teachings. In the Vajrayana tradition, it is especially important that each teacher is able to state which Lama he had received this teaching from, and which Lama before that... and before that... the authenticity derives from the lineage from which the teachers are passed down, and should be able to be traced all the way back to Lama Tsongkhapa (in the case of Gelugpa practitioners) and then even further backwards to Shakyamuni himself.

If this is done, then even if the Dalai Lama doesn't give his official seal of approval on the teacher or teachings, the teachings are still considered valid and authentic because they do come from a valid source, valid teachers and institutions. This is especially important to consider today, when so many teachers are being forced out of mainstream, "accepted" institutions and reestablishing their own institutions of learning and practice. For example, Shar Gaden has not been given the Dalai Lama's stamp of approval, but all their teachings trace back to authentic, qualified sources (well, actually, apart from the open practice of Shugden, they all have the same teachers and practice the same teachings as Gaden, so of course they're valid!)

(In any case, is the Dalai Lama really authorised to officiate or declare what is valid or not in other sects which he is not school in? -Sakya, Nyingma, all the Kagyus? If he hasn't been fully schooled in all of them, does he really have a say in determining who is qualified or not?)

dsiluvu

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Re: Dorje Shugden Canada
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2012, 10:04:57 PM »
I would say that His Holiness the Gaden Tripas would be the rightful ones, if anyone is to authorise anyone in the Gelugpa sect, no?

Either Tsongkapa (Tsong-ka-pa) (1357–1419), who founded the Gelug sect, or his successor, Gyaltsab Je (Rgyal-tshab-rje), may be considered to have been the first Gaden Tripa. (After Tsongkhapa’s passing, his teachings were held and kept by Gyaltsab Je and Khedrub Je who were the next abbots of Gaden monastery. The lineage has been held by the Gaden Tripas – the throne holders of Gaden Monastery.)

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/dharma-readings/the-gaden-tripas/

However, I do not really agree that NKT is not genuine since their root Guru - Geshela is the student of Trijang Rinpoche... hence he is from the same Gelug lineage that leads back to Je Pabongkha, and eventually Lama Tsongkhapa. But the weirdest and funniest I've hear is from Nkt students themselves that basically say they are not "Gelugs"! Some was not even sure what is a Gelugpa.

I guess they are being told this to disassociate themselves from being under the Tibetan Government who basically likes to control everyone's believes and faith :) (?)
 

thor

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Re: Dorje Shugden Canada
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2012, 06:45:50 PM »
I would like to bring everyone's attention to the history of 2 global buddhist organisations in the gelugpa tradition. FPMT and NKT - which are bound together due to their origins, but I particularly want to highlight several key points in NKT's history


Historical background of the formation of NKT

In 1976 the students of Lama Thubten Yeshe founded the Manjushri Institute, a registered charitable company with Lama Yeshe as the Spiritual Director and purchased the assets of Conishead Priory, a sadly neglected Victorian mansion in Ulverston (Cumbria), England for the price of £70,000. In the same year Lama Thubten Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche visited Geshe Kelsang in India and invited him over to teach at the Manjushri Institute, which was a part of their FPMT network.

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, a Tibetan Buddhist teacher, monk and scholar from the Gelug Tradition, is a contemporary of Lama Yeshe's from the time they spent studying at Sera Monastery.

According to researcher David N. Kay, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso was invited in 1976 by Lama Thubten Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche, who sought the advice of HH the 14th Dalai Lama when choosing Geshe Kelsang. Whereas according to a NKT brochure, "Lama Yeshe requested Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to ask Geshe Kelsang to become Resident Teacher of Manjushri Institute. Geshe Kelsang later recounted that Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche asked him to go to England, teach Shantideva's Guide to the Bodhisattva's Way of Life, Chandrakirti's Guide to the Middle Way and Lamrim, and then check whether there was any meaning in his continuing to stay."

Quote
For everyone who wants to argue about the authenticity of lineage, Geshe kelsang gyatso was authorised by the Dalai Lama AND lama Yeshe as a fully qualified buddhist teacher. 

Geshe Kelsang was requested by Lama Yeshe to lead the "General Program" of Buddhist study. In 1979 Lama Yeshe installed another Geshe at Manjushri Institute, Geshe Jampa Tekchok, to teach a parallel twelve-year Geshe Studies Programme, which was recognized and validated by the Dalai Lama and which was modeled on the traditional Geshe degree. From 1982 to 1990 this program was led by Geshe Konchog Tsewang. According to a disciple of Lama Yeshe from this time, Lama Yeshe intended the institute "to become the central monastery of the FPMT... one of the early jewels of the FPMT crown" and "the pioneer among the western centers".

In the late 1970s, Geshe Kelsang, without consulting Lama Yeshe, opened up a Buddhist Centre in York under his own spiritual direction. Kay sees this as the beginning of a conflict between Lama Yeshe and Geshe Kelsang. However, according to Geshe Kelsang, "the opening of the Centre in York caused not one moment of confusion or disharmony".

Quote
Geshe-la first started opening his own centres in the late 1970s. That was coincidentally the same time that the Dalai Lama first started criticising the practice of Dorje shugden.

Geshe Kelsang was asked to resign so that another Geshe, described by Kay as "more devoted to FPMT objectives", could take over as a resident teacher of Manjushri Institute. Many students of Geshe Kelsang petitioned him to stay and teach them, and on this basis he decided to remain. In the following years prior 1990 Geshe Kelsang established 15 centers under his own direction in Great Britain and Spain.

Quote
Geshela rebelled against lama Yeshe and decided to stay against lama Yeshe's wishes? Remember that Geshe-la's root guru is trijang Rinpoche, not lama Yeshe, and by trijang rinpoche's instructions, he was supposed to teach in England then evaluate if there was any meaning in remaining. I conclude that through the requests of Geshe-la's students asking him to remain to turn the wheel of dharma, he thought it would be more meaningful to stay than to leave. I also wonder if Geshe-la had any inkling of what was to come in future (ie the shugden issue) and stayed behind in order to create a strong and powerful institution to uphold shugden's practice?


Both David Kay and Daniel Cozort describe the management committee of Manjushri Institute from 1981 onwards as made up principally of Geshe Kelsang's closest students, also known as "the Priory Group". According to Kay, "The Priory Group became dissatisfied with the FPMT's increasingly centralized organisation." Cozort states that different disagreements "led to a rift between Lama Yeshe and his students and Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and his, and eventually the Manjushri Board of directors (comprised of Geshe Gyatso's students) severed the connection of the between institute and FPMT."

According to Kay, Lama Yeshe tried at different times to reassert his authority over the Institute, but his attempts were unsuccessful. Kay goes on to describe an open conflict of authority which developed between the Priory Group and the FPMT administration in 1983. In February 1984 the conflict was mediated by the Office of His Holiness the Dalai Lama in London. Kay states that after the death of Lama Yeshe in March 1984, the FPMT lost interest because they saw it as a fruitless case. Since that time, Kay states, the Manjushri Institute has developed mainly under the guidance of Geshe Kelsang without further reference to the FPMT, but legally remained part of the FPMT until late 1990.

Quote
In the early eighties, during the time that the Dorje shugden movement was slowly gaining momentum, Geshe kelsang and lama Yeshe's differences escalated, resulting in the separation of Manjushri institute with the rest of FPMT. In facts from the side of FPMT, the reasons for the dispute are:

At issue was whether the centers and their students ought to identify primarily with Lama Yeshe, local teachers, the Gelugpa tradition, or Tibetan Buddhism as a whole. 

I would conjecture that Geshe kelsang was more inclined to stay truest to the Gelugpa lineage, above everything else. We will see more proof of this in his later actions.

According to Kay, of the two Geshes at Manjushri Institute, it was Geshe Kelsang who had always taken the greater interest in the running and direction of the Institute, and most of the students there were closer to him. The courses offered by both Geshes complemented each other, but as Kay remarked, they "differed in one important respect: only Geshe Kelsang's General Programme included courses on Tantric Buddhism, and attendance upon these required the reception of a Tantric empowerment."

Further, Kay argues that "Lama Yeshe's and Geshe Kelsang's different ideological perspectives provided the conditions for the organisational dispute between the Institute and the FPMT to escalate. Geshe Kelsang was already predisposed to support his students in their struggle with the FPMT administration because the organisation was inspired by a vision that he did not totally agree with."

Kay writes that, "the determination of Geshe Kelsang and the Priory Group to separate from the parent organisation was uncompromising, and this was a position that only hardened during the following years." He goes on to describe the split from the Gelug school and FPMT as follows:

"Geshe Kelsang's perception of himself and his centres vis-á-vis the contemporary Gelug sect changed dramatically, and he came to believe that he could only uphold the tradition of Tsongkhapa purely by separating from the degenerate world of Tibetan, and specifically Gelug, Buddhism."

Geshe Kelsang made a 3-year retreat from 1987-1990 in Dumfries, Scotland and asked Geshe Losang Pende from Ganden Shartse monastery to lead the General Program in his absence, whilst Geshe Konchog Tsewang continued to teach the Geshe Studies Programme at Conishead Priory (Manjushri Institute). Different Lamas, including Lama Zopa Rinpoche, were still invited. Especially the visit of Lama Zopa Rinpoche in 1988 "is significant, indicating the ongoing devotion of the students to this lama and their desire to leave the negativity of the schism with the FPMT in the past." 

In 1988 and 1990 the uncle of Geshe Kelsang, Ven. Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama - the oracle of Dorje Shugden - also visited Manjushri Institute. Before that time Song Rinpoche, Geshe Lhundup Sopa, Geshe Rabten, as well as other lamas such as Ajahn Sumedho and Thich Nhat Hanh have taught at Manjushri Institute.

During Geshe Kelsang's period of retreat he wrote some of his books and worked out the foundations of the NKT. Kay states: "The first major development that took place during Geshe Kelsang's retreat was the introduction of the 'Teacher Training Programme' (TTP) at the Manjushri Institute." Kay comments the developments at that time: "By giving his study programmes a textual basis, Geshe Kelsang not only provided accessible materials to enhance the focus and commitment of his students, but also laid down structures through which spiritual authority could later be concentrated exclusively on him."

According to Kay,
"At this stage in the development of Geshe Kelsang's network, students were not required to rely on him exclusively...His perspective had yet to harden further, and the decisive shift appears to have taken place shortly after he came out of retreat in 1990 when he began to introduce new and radically exclusive policies within his centres. He had come to believe by this time that he had a central role to play in the preservation of Tsongkhapa's tradition in the modern age. The substance of the various reforms he implemented, therefore, was that the student within his centres were now to rely exclusively upon him for their spiritual inspiration and welfare."

According to Kay, Geshe Kelsang was gravely concerned that the purity of Tsongkhapa's tradition was being undermined by the lingering inclusivism of his Western students, something he had been outspoken for some years, "but he now acted more forcefully in his opposition to it by discouraging his students both from receiving guidance from teachers of other traditions and from reading their books."

Kay states that another result of these "radically exclusive policies" was that after the foundation of NKT the Manjushri Institute Library, with over 3000 books, was removed. Kay goes on to state that, "this began with non-Gelug books being removed, but as Geshe Kelsang's vision crystallised, even books by Gelug teachers became unacceptable to him and the library disappeared altogether. He thus became convinced that the Tibetan Gelug tradition as a whole no longer embodied Tsongkhapa's pure teachings and that he and his disciples must therefore separate from it. From this point onwards, Tibetan Gelug lamas would no longer be invited to teach within his network. This perceived degeneration extended to include its highest-level lamas, and so even veneration for the Dalai Lama was now actively discouraged." The pictures of the Dalai Lama were removed from the gompas and shrines of Geshe Kelsang's centres. In 1990 Geshe Kelsang became also outspoken against the Geshe Studies Programme, and "made the pursuit of his new programmes compulsory." According to Kay "As it was no longer possible for students to follow the programmes of both Geshes, the basis of Geshe Konchog's teaching programme at the Institute was undermined, and in 1991 he retired to Gyuto Monasteryin Assam, India."

Quote
When Geshe kelsang started eliminating all other teachers except himself, that was after a 3 year retreat, and just before the Dalai Lama went all out in his crusade against Dorje shugden. (Yes I call it a crusade.) I would say that Geshe Kelsang was setting the groundwork so that the future NKT members would have faith in his actions, and would not abandon the true path of lama tsongkhapa. I would also conjecture that Geshe had foreseen that many other Gelug masters would choose their sides in the Dorje shugden debate, and did not want his students torn between different teachers and different paths.

It is also interesting that out of everyone, Geshe-la chose Geshe lobsang pende to teach in his absence. And now, Geshe lobsang pende is the abbot of Shar gaden monastery. Is it just coincidence that Geshe la chose someone at has remain true to the Dorje shugden movement to this day?


The foundation of the New Kadampa Tradition
According to David Kay, "in 1991, through the successful exploitation of a legal loophole, the assets of Manjushri Institut finally fell under the sole control of the Priory Group"(the close disciples of Geshe Kelsang). In the Spring of that same year, Geshe Kelsang announced the creation of the 'New Kadampa Tradition', an event which was celebrated in the NKT-Magazine Full Moon as "a wonderful development in the history of the Buddhadharma." In 1992, the Manjushri Institute developed a new constitution, which constituted the formal foundation of the NKT. The Manjushri Institute was renamed the Manjushri Mahayana Buddhist Center, and later the Manjushri Kadampa Meditation Center. Since then, it has remained Geshe Kelsang's home and the NKT's flagship center.

With the foundation of the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT) by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, he established a new and independent religious movement aiming to "principally follow the teachings and example of Je Tsongkhapa". This also gave a new identity to his followers. The many NKT centres which were built up rapidly by his followers could gather under the common auspices of the NKT and their spiritual guide, distinguishing and disassociating themselves from other Tibetan Buddhist traditions, especially the Gelug school from which Geshe Kelsang Gyatso originated. Kay argued that with these changes, Geshe Gyatso provided a basis for the NKT to become a Western tradition whose "spiritual authority could later be concentrated exclusively on him." Cozort describes this as unusual in the Tibetan tradition. The NKT described themselves as being "an entirely independent Buddhist tradition with no political affiliations ... that is appropriate to the needs and conditions of the modern world". David N. Kay comments:

“In defining the movement in this way, the organisation is not simply maintaining that it represents Buddhism adapted for westerners; it is also striving to underline its separation from the Tibetan Gelug sect and emphasise the point that the West - via the NKT - is now the guardian and custodian of the pure tradition of Tsongkhapa in the modern world. From an NKT viewpoint, Geshe Kelsang has played a unique role in the transmission of Tsongkhapa's pure teachings, and the organisation and study structures he has created in the West are now believed to protect and preserve a tradition that is all but lost in its indigenous Eastern context.

Quote
Geshe kelsang gyatso is NOT trying to create a new lineage or sect of Buddhism. He is merely trying to retain the authenticity of tsongkhapa's teachings. For all the naysayers who are constantly criticising the NKT's syllabus, have you ever checked it against the teachings of Tsongkapa himself?

DharmaDefender

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Re: Dorje Shugden Canada
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 07:32:12 AM »
I would like to bring everyone's attention to the history of 2 global buddhist organisations in the gelugpa tradition. FPMT and NKT - which are bound together due to their origins, but I particularly want to highlight several key points in NKT's history


Historical background of the formation of NKT

In 1976 the students of Lama Thubten Yeshe founded the Manjushri Institute, a registered charitable company with Lama Yeshe as the Spiritual Director and purchased the assets of Conishead Priory, a sadly neglected Victorian mansion in Ulverston (Cumbria), England for the price of £70,000. In the same year Lama Thubten Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche visited Geshe Kelsang in India and invited him over to teach at the Manjushri Institute, which was a part of their FPMT network.

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, a Tibetan Buddhist teacher, monk and scholar from the Gelug Tradition, is a contemporary of Lama Yeshe's from the time they spent studying at Sera Monastery.

According to researcher David N. Kay, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso was invited in 1976 by Lama Thubten Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche, who sought the advice of HH the 14th Dalai Lama when choosing Geshe Kelsang. Whereas according to a NKT brochure, "Lama Yeshe requested Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to ask Geshe Kelsang to become Resident Teacher of Manjushri Institute. Geshe Kelsang later recounted that Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche asked him to go to England, teach Shantideva's Guide to the Bodhisattva's Way of Life, Chandrakirti's Guide to the Middle Way and Lamrim, and then check whether there was any meaning in his continuing to stay."

Quote
For everyone who wants to argue about the authenticity of lineage, Geshe kelsang gyatso was authorised by the Dalai Lama AND lama Yeshe as a fully qualified buddhist teacher.

Geshe Kelsang was requested by Lama Yeshe to lead the "General Program" of Buddhist study. In 1979 Lama Yeshe installed another Geshe at Manjushri Institute, Geshe Jampa Tekchok, to teach a parallel twelve-year Geshe Studies Programme, which was recognized and validated by the Dalai Lama and which was modeled on the traditional Geshe degree. From 1982 to 1990 this program was led by Geshe Konchog Tsewang. According to a disciple of Lama Yeshe from this time, Lama Yeshe intended the institute "to become the central monastery of the FPMT... one of the early jewels of the FPMT crown" and "the pioneer among the western centers".

In the late 1970s, Geshe Kelsang, without consulting Lama Yeshe, opened up a Buddhist Centre in York under his own spiritual direction. Kay sees this as the beginning of a conflict between Lama Yeshe and Geshe Kelsang. However, according to Geshe Kelsang, "the opening of the Centre in York caused not one moment of confusion or disharmony".

Quote
Geshe-la first started opening his own centres in the late 1970s. That was coincidentally the same time that the Dalai Lama first started criticising the practice of Dorje shugden.

Geshe Kelsang was asked to resign so that another Geshe, described by Kay as "more devoted to FPMT objectives", could take over as a resident teacher of Manjushri Institute. Many students of Geshe Kelsang petitioned him to stay and teach them, and on this basis he decided to remain. In the following years prior 1990 Geshe Kelsang established 15 centers under his own direction in Great Britain and Spain.

Quote
Geshela rebelled against lama Yeshe and decided to stay against lama Yeshe's wishes? Remember that Geshe-la's root guru is trijang Rinpoche, not lama Yeshe, and by trijang rinpoche's instructions, he was supposed to teach in England then evaluate if there was any meaning in remaining. I conclude that through the requests of Geshe-la's students asking him to remain to turn the wheel of dharma, he thought it would be more meaningful to stay than to leave. I also wonder if Geshe-la had any inkling of what was to come in future (ie the shugden issue) and stayed behind in order to create a strong and powerful institution to uphold shugden's practice?


Both David Kay and Daniel Cozort describe the management committee of Manjushri Institute from 1981 onwards as made up principally of Geshe Kelsang's closest students, also known as "the Priory Group". According to Kay, "The Priory Group became dissatisfied with the FPMT's increasingly centralized organisation." Cozort states that different disagreements "led to a rift between Lama Yeshe and his students and Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and his, and eventually the Manjushri Board of directors (comprised of Geshe Gyatso's students) severed the connection of the between institute and FPMT."

According to Kay, Lama Yeshe tried at different times to reassert his authority over the Institute, but his attempts were unsuccessful. Kay goes on to describe an open conflict of authority which developed between the Priory Group and the FPMT administration in 1983. In February 1984 the conflict was mediated by the Office of His Holiness the Dalai Lama in London. Kay states that after the death of Lama Yeshe in March 1984, the FPMT lost interest because they saw it as a fruitless case. Since that time, Kay states, the Manjushri Institute has developed mainly under the guidance of Geshe Kelsang without further reference to the FPMT, but legally remained part of the FPMT until late 1990.

Quote
In the early eighties, during the time that the Dorje shugden movement was slowly gaining momentum, Geshe kelsang and lama Yeshe's differences escalated, resulting in the separation of Manjushri institute with the rest of FPMT. In facts from the side of FPMT, the reasons for the dispute are:

At issue was whether the centers and their students ought to identify primarily with Lama Yeshe, local teachers, the Gelugpa tradition, or Tibetan Buddhism as a whole.

I would conjecture that Geshe kelsang was more inclined to stay truest to the Gelugpa lineage, above everything else. We will see more proof of this in his later actions.

According to Kay, of the two Geshes at Manjushri Institute, it was Geshe Kelsang who had always taken the greater interest in the running and direction of the Institute, and most of the students there were closer to him. The courses offered by both Geshes complemented each other, but as Kay remarked, they "differed in one important respect: only Geshe Kelsang's General Programme included courses on Tantric Buddhism, and attendance upon these required the reception of a Tantric empowerment."

Further, Kay argues that "Lama Yeshe's and Geshe Kelsang's different ideological perspectives provided the conditions for the organisational dispute between the Institute and the FPMT to escalate. Geshe Kelsang was already predisposed to support his students in their struggle with the FPMT administration because the organisation was inspired by a vision that he did not totally agree with."

Kay writes that, "the determination of Geshe Kelsang and the Priory Group to separate from the parent organisation was uncompromising, and this was a position that only hardened during the following years." He goes on to describe the split from the Gelug school and FPMT as follows:

"Geshe Kelsang's perception of himself and his centres vis-á-vis the contemporary Gelug sect changed dramatically, and he came to believe that he could only uphold the tradition of Tsongkhapa purely by separating from the degenerate world of Tibetan, and specifically Gelug, Buddhism."

Geshe Kelsang made a 3-year retreat from 1987-1990 in Dumfries, Scotland and asked Geshe Losang Pende from Ganden Shartse monastery to lead the General Program in his absence, whilst Geshe Konchog Tsewang continued to teach the Geshe Studies Programme at Conishead Priory (Manjushri Institute). Different Lamas, including Lama Zopa Rinpoche, were still invited. Especially the visit of Lama Zopa Rinpoche in 1988 "is significant, indicating the ongoing devotion of the students to this lama and their desire to leave the negativity of the schism with the FPMT in the past."

In 1988 and 1990 the uncle of Geshe Kelsang, Ven. Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama - the oracle of Dorje Shugden - also visited Manjushri Institute. Before that time Song Rinpoche, Geshe Lhundup Sopa, Geshe Rabten, as well as other lamas such as Ajahn Sumedho and Thich Nhat Hanh have taught at Manjushri Institute.

During Geshe Kelsang's period of retreat he wrote some of his books and worked out the foundations of the NKT. Kay states: "The first major development that took place during Geshe Kelsang's retreat was the introduction of the 'Teacher Training Programme' (TTP) at the Manjushri Institute." Kay comments the developments at that time: "By giving his study programmes a textual basis, Geshe Kelsang not only provided accessible materials to enhance the focus and commitment of his students, but also laid down structures through which spiritual authority could later be concentrated exclusively on him."

According to Kay,
"At this stage in the development of Geshe Kelsang's network, students were not required to rely on him exclusively...His perspective had yet to harden further, and the decisive shift appears to have taken place shortly after he came out of retreat in 1990 when he began to introduce new and radically exclusive policies within his centres. He had come to believe by this time that he had a central role to play in the preservation of Tsongkhapa's tradition in the modern age. The substance of the various reforms he implemented, therefore, was that the student within his centres were now to rely exclusively upon him for their spiritual inspiration and welfare."

According to Kay, Geshe Kelsang was gravely concerned that the purity of Tsongkhapa's tradition was being undermined by the lingering inclusivism of his Western students, something he had been outspoken for some years, "but he now acted more forcefully in his opposition to it by discouraging his students both from receiving guidance from teachers of other traditions and from reading their books."

Kay states that another result of these "radically exclusive policies" was that after the foundation of NKT the Manjushri Institute Library, with over 3000 books, was removed. Kay goes on to state that, "this began with non-Gelug books being removed, but as Geshe Kelsang's vision crystallised, even books by Gelug teachers became unacceptable to him and the library disappeared altogether. He thus became convinced that the Tibetan Gelug tradition as a whole no longer embodied Tsongkhapa's pure teachings and that he and his disciples must therefore separate from it. From this point onwards, Tibetan Gelug lamas would no longer be invited to teach within his network. This perceived degeneration extended to include its highest-level lamas, and so even veneration for the Dalai Lama was now actively discouraged." The pictures of the Dalai Lama were removed from the gompas and shrines of Geshe Kelsang's centres. In 1990 Geshe Kelsang became also outspoken against the Geshe Studies Programme, and "made the pursuit of his new programmes compulsory." According to Kay "As it was no longer possible for students to follow the programmes of both Geshes, the basis of Geshe Konchog's teaching programme at the Institute was undermined, and in 1991 he retired to Gyuto Monasteryin Assam, India."

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When Geshe kelsang started eliminating all other teachers except himself, that was after a 3 year retreat, and just before the Dalai Lama went all out in his crusade against Dorje shugden. (Yes I call it a crusade.) I would say that Geshe Kelsang was setting the groundwork so that the future NKT members would have faith in his actions, and would not abandon the true path of lama tsongkhapa. I would also conjecture that Geshe had foreseen that many other Gelug masters would choose their sides in the Dorje shugden debate, and did not want his students torn between different teachers and different paths.

It is also interesting that out of everyone, Geshe-la chose Geshe lobsang pende to teach in his absence. And now, Geshe lobsang pende is the abbot of Shar gaden monastery. Is it just coincidence that Geshe la chose someone at has remain true to the Dorje shugden movement to this day?


The foundation of the New Kadampa Tradition
According to David Kay, "in 1991, through the successful exploitation of a legal loophole, the assets of Manjushri Institut finally fell under the sole control of the Priory Group"(the close disciples of Geshe Kelsang). In the Spring of that same year, Geshe Kelsang announced the creation of the 'New Kadampa Tradition', an event which was celebrated in the NKT-Magazine Full Moon as "a wonderful development in the history of the Buddhadharma." In 1992, the Manjushri Institute developed a new constitution, which constituted the formal foundation of the NKT. The Manjushri Institute was renamed the Manjushri Mahayana Buddhist Center, and later the Manjushri Kadampa Meditation Center. Since then, it has remained Geshe Kelsang's home and the NKT's flagship center.

With the foundation of the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT) by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, he established a new and independent religious movement aiming to "principally follow the teachings and example of Je Tsongkhapa". This also gave a new identity to his followers. The many NKT centres which were built up rapidly by his followers could gather under the common auspices of the NKT and their spiritual guide, distinguishing and disassociating themselves from other Tibetan Buddhist traditions, especially the Gelug school from which Geshe Kelsang Gyatso originated. Kay argued that with these changes, Geshe Gyatso provided a basis for the NKT to become a Western tradition whose "spiritual authority could later be concentrated exclusively on him." Cozort describes this as unusual in the Tibetan tradition. The NKT described themselves as being "an entirely independent Buddhist tradition with no political affiliations ... that is appropriate to the needs and conditions of the modern world". David N. Kay comments:

“In defining the movement in this way, the organisation is not simply maintaining that it represents Buddhism adapted for westerners; it is also striving to underline its separation from the Tibetan Gelug sect and emphasise the point that the West - via the NKT - is now the guardian and custodian of the pure tradition of Tsongkhapa in the modern world. From an NKT viewpoint, Geshe Kelsang has played a unique role in the transmission of Tsongkhapa's pure teachings, and the organisation and study structures he has created in the West are now believed to protect and preserve a tradition that is all but lost in its indigenous Eastern context.

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Geshe kelsang gyatso is NOT trying to create a new lineage or sect of Buddhism. He is merely trying to retain the authenticity of tsongkhapa's teachings. For all the naysayers who are constantly criticising the NKT's syllabus, have you ever checked it against the teachings of Tsongkapa himself?

Thanks thor for that extensive analysis of the two organisations histories. I think its sad given how much they have been through and how much they have done for the Buddhadharma, that their achievements have been overshadowed by this ban, and by those who want to air their dirty laundry in public...after all, is it really necessary to talk about

Further to your commentary thor, Id like to add the following:

Considering the timing of the organisation splitting into two distinct groups, there is also the possibility that the lamas manifested disharmony in order for two such groups to be formed. FPMT is there to tow the Dalai Lamas message, and to promote his teachings to a group who holds the Dalai Lama central to their practice. Then theres NKT who can promote the Buddhadharma after His Holiness passes away, to a group of people who are not reliant on the Dalai Lama as their spiritual guide.

My reasoning for this is two-fold:

  • the continued inconsistencies demonstrated by the FPMT group, and particularly by Lama Zopa Rinpoche whose opinion changes between outright support for the ban, and one of vague support for Dorje Shugden and the topic of devotion to ones gurus practices.
  • the demographics of practitioners within the two groups. Political correctness aside, the majority of NKT practitioners tend to be in the West, whilst the majority of FPMT supporters tend to be in the East. If you question the average FPMT practitioner on Dharma, their knowledge on the philosophical aspects tends to be limited but their knowledge of the esoteric rituals is usually quite solid. If you question the average NKT practitioner, their knowledge is quite expansive thanks to Geshe-las continued emphasis on education to preserve the Dharma. However, their ritualistic knowledge may be limited due to a natural disinclination towards the esoteric.

In their own ways, both organisations preserve the Dharma, with a different emphasis for each. Ive been told that for lay Dharma practitioners these days, its very difficult for us to gain a firm grasp of both the philosophical and esoteric aspects of Buddhism. We have too many obstacles, too many distractions and are too selective with what we choose to learn and practise.

So ultimately, perhaps the groups split so each had decades to focus on a different facet of the Dharma. Then, with the advent of the bans decline, both groups may recombine to share their expertise with one another.

And the tool used to engineer this split? Dorje Shugden. Maybe Dorje Shugden just became a necessary scapegoat in this plan to preserve the Dharma as a whole.

DharmaSpace

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Re: Dorje Shugden Canada
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2012, 02:09:47 PM »
This is a very interesting discussion thank you to everyone who has posted so far.

NKT and FPMT form the bulk population of the modern day Gelugpa around the world, and possibly has the biggest population of Tibetan Buddhism practitioners in current times.

For NKT to split from FPMT this is something Geshe-la has mulled over a very long time, as this is a huge responsibility to set a new direction and syllabus in order to educate the modern individual and the commitment between student and teacher spans lifetimes not just this one. Geshe-la being the student of Trijang Rinpoche was not breaking his samaya when he parted ways from Lama Yeshe, he just felt he had to do it his own way and felt he has something to offer to the world and boy did he expand NKT to its global reach now. I have read the joyful path it is very light in my opinion and it complements my other Lamrim texts, i just feel in the joyful path so much care is put to making it accessible to the modern man. As thor mentioned if we think NKT has deviated, then check out their teachings and the minds of their students. 

FPMT has it work cut out as it is supposed to house people who would not be attracted to Dorje Shugden now, to monks and practitioners who would turn their backs on Dorje Shugden for the sake of appeasing CTA and Dalai Lama. I do hope FPMT will wake up very quickly, their direction will not bring benefit for them long term and short term. Guru devotion should win over man made rules.     


Ensapa

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Re: Dorje Shugden Canada
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2013, 01:50:05 PM »
From the history of both organisations, it is very clear that both NKT and FPMT are both valid organisations. If Trijang Rinpoche approves of Geshe Keslang Gyatso, how in the world could it be that he can be wrong? Wouldnt it mean that Trijang Rinpoche's judgement of Geshe Keslang Gyatso is wrong, and wouldnt it mean that Trijang Rinpoche's judgement is flawed, and how can that be? Proof that Geshe Keslang Gyatso is valid is how big his organization has grown and also how many people have benefitted from him and his teachings.