Shamar Rinpoche says that DS practitioners' protests are effective

[michaela]

My knowledge about the 17th Karmapa came from the book: The Dance of 17 Lives: The Incredible True Story of Tibet's 17th Karmapa.  According to this book, the 16th Karmapa had several heart sons, Sharmapa being one of them.  After the death of the 16th Karmapa from stomach cancer, the search of his incarnation revealed two candidates:
-  Ogyen Trinley Dorje recognized by Situ Rinpoche and Gyaltsab Rinpoche
-  Trinley Thaye Dorje recognized by Shamar Rinpoche

All Situ Rinpoche, Gyaltsab Rinpoche, and Shamar Rinpoche came from Kagyu lineage and were very close students of the 16th Karmapa.  All three of them came to the 14th Dalai Lama asking for confirmation of the incarnations.  Dalai Lama, through his divination, confirmed that Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Karmapa. 

What I want to clarify here is HHDL was not interfering in the process.  He was only asked for his confirmation. 

As for additional information, Ogyen Trinley Dorje was also recognized by the Chinese government as the 17th Karmapa.  Ogyen Trinley decided to join Dalai Lama and Tibetan Government in exile after refusing to comply with the Chinese government request to condemn HHDL.

Personally, for a lay practitioner like me, I have no idea which Karmapa is the right Karmapa.  But I think, an incarnation should be judged by what s/he does in this life to benefit others and not by the virtue of his recognition.

Having said this, drawing an analogy from the whole situation to the DS situation, I think in considering whether the ban on DS is justifiable or not, would very much depends on whether the practice of DS really benefits beings.  As we can see from the testimonial sections in dorjeshugden.com, many people have benefited from the practice of DS.

[Zach]

http://www.karmapa-issue.org/

See In particular...

http://www.karmapa-issue.org/news/statement_24_2012.pdf

http://www.karmapa-issue.org/news/statement_shamarpa_additional_comments_on_clarification.pdf

[Ensapa]

My knowledge about the 17th Karmapa came from the book: The Dance of 17 Lives: The Incredible True Story of Tibet's 17th Karmapa.  According to this book, the 16th Karmapa had several heart sons, Sharmapa being one of them.  After the death of the 16th Karmapa from stomach cancer, the search of his incarnation revealed two candidates:
-  Ogyen Trinley Dorje recognized by Situ Rinpoche and Gyaltsab Rinpoche
-  Trinley Thaye Dorje recognized by Shamar Rinpoche

All Situ Rinpoche, Gyaltsab Rinpoche, and Shamar Rinpoche came from Kagyu lineage and were very close students of the 16th Karmapa.  All three of them came to the 14th Dalai Lama asking for confirmation of the incarnations.  Dalai Lama, through his divination, confirmed that Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Karmapa. 

What I want to clarify here is HHDL was not interfering in the process.  He was only asked for his confirmation. 

As for additional information, Ogyen Trinley Dorje was also recognized by the Chinese government as the 17th Karmapa.  Ogyen Trinley decided to join Dalai Lama and Tibetan Government in exile after refusing to comply with the Chinese government request to condemn HHDL.

Personally, for a lay practitioner like me, I have no idea which Karmapa is the right Karmapa.  But I think, an incarnation should be judged by what s/he does in this life to benefit others and not by the virtue of his recognition.

Having said this, drawing an analogy from the whole situation to the DS situation, I think in considering whether the ban on DS is justifiable or not, would very much depends on whether the practice of DS really benefits beings.  As we can see from the testimonial sections in dorjeshugden.com, many people have benefited from the practice of DS.

There is an alternate account by Glenn Mullin saying that Tai Situ basically just fed the information to the Dalai Lama and asked him to quickly confirm his candidate, before HHDL was aware of Thaye Dorje. When the Dalai Lama knew about Thaye Dorje, it was already too late as he has already given his office endorsement to Orgyen Trinley and he could not reverse it. Another account says that Tai Situ threatened the Dalai Lama to approve Orgyen Trinley "or there will be blood." I would trust the former account more as the latter account sounded more like propaganda. The latter account came from the book Buddha's not smiling.

[Rinchen]

It is so true and well said  by Sharmapa, political and religious views and people should not be mixed. When things like that is being mixed, the time for the religious part to grow would be lessened. At the same time the political power of Tibet would not be able to grow as well.

With respect to the Dalai Lama, I still think that this ban on Dorje Shugden is just plain ridiculous. So many families, friends, monasteries being separated because of the ban. So much grief and hardship for the Tibetans. Since the Gaden Tripa agrees that the practice of Dorje Shugden is something good, what for ban it?

[Ensapa]

HHDL was approached by Rumtek, Tsurphu and Tai Situpa. HHDL did not 'interfere'. They asked HHDL to use his superior psychic methods to check for the authenticity of this incarnation. HHDL used dreams and divinations to divine the true incarnation.

HHDL being highly attained naturally accepted their request and affirmed what they have chosen to be Karmapa already.

His Holiness Dalai Lama assisted them very kindly not interfered. How can assisting in finding an incarnation as requested be interfering.

If you were to choose Sharmapa's candidate then you would have to choose Beijing's candidate of Panchen Lama also.

But isnt Orgyen Trinley the Chinese recognized karmapa? How is it that if we choose Thaye Dorje that it is the same as choosing the Chinese Panchen Lama? Wouldnt it be more logical to say that if we choose the Chinese Karmapa, then we shoud also choose the chinese Panchen Lama? They're both picked by the Chinese, not by the CTA after all. Thaye Dorje was not picked by the Chinese but due to not having vast political influence, CTA sidelined him as the karmapa, from how I see it, even when he is a valid emanation, at least.