Author Topic: What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?  (Read 5083 times)

Lineageholder

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What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?
« on: November 15, 2013, 05:39:19 PM »
The Dalai Lama is the only person who talks about the Nalanda tradition:

http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=34222&article=Dalai+Lama+inaugurates+seminar+on+the+Nalanda+Tradition+in+the+capital&t=1&c=1

He doesn't seem to talk much about the traditions of Tibetan Buddhism, only the Nalanda Tradition.  What's your view on this? Do you think (as I do) that the Dalai Lama is using this as a method to merge all the Tibetan traditions together under his control, or is there some spiritual legitimacy to what he says?

It's quite interesting when he says:

Quote
“Although much of the knowledge I speak of is to be found in Buddhist literature, it is not strictly Buddhist, but has a secular basis. India is multi-religious society and has long maintained a profound respect for different religious traditions,”


So now the Dalai Lama is admitting that he's not teaching Buddhism. How can Buddhism have a 'secular' basis and what does that even mean? Does it mean scrapping the idea of karma and past and future lives?

I think he's gone seriously off the rails, if he was ever really on them.

Rinchen

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Re: What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2013, 05:08:17 PM »
I do not agree with what is being said that the Dalai Lama is trying to change how Tibetan Buddhism is like. He is just expressing his views on Nalanda Tradition. It is not wrong to be admiring another tradition and even know about it.

In fact, it would be good that we know about other traditions as well as it not only broaden our views, but it allows us to have more knowledge about them as well.

Lineageholder

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Re: What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2013, 06:20:11 PM »
Thanks Rinchen, I appreciate your response as I want to understand this better.

What is the 'Nalanda Tradition'? - I have never heard of it.  Of course I have heard of Nalanda University and the discourse style there as this is explained in the Dharma books of my own Guru, but as for an actual Tradition, it doesn't exist as far as I can see.  There are two lineages of teachings that passed down from Buddha Shakyamuni, the vast path lineage and the profound path lineage, and these were united by Atisha in his lamrim presentation, but I have never heard tell of the Nalanda Tradition. 

Who are the Gurus of the Nalanda Tradition from Buddha Shakyamuni to the present day?


Heartspoon

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Re: What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2013, 02:37:31 AM »
The Seventeen Pa??itas of N?land? University :

Buddha ??kyamuni
N?g?rjuna
?ryadeva
Buddhap?lita
Bh?vaviveka
Candrak?rti
??ntideva
??ntarak?ita
Kamala??la
Asa?ga
Vasubandhu
Dign?ga
Dharmak?rti
Vimuktasena
Haribhadra
Gu?aprabh?
??kyaprabh?
At??a


Heartspoon

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Re: What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2013, 02:42:46 AM »
The Seventeen Panditas of Nalanda :

Buddha Shakyamuni
Nagarjuna
Aryadeva
Buddhapalita
Bhavaviveka
Candrakirti
Santideva
Santaraksita
Kamalasila
Asanga
Vasubandhu
Dignaga
Dharmakirti
Vimuktasena
Haribhadra
Gunaprabha
Sakyaprabha
Atisa



Freyr Aesiragnorak

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Re: What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2013, 04:54:58 AM »
I don't know much about this topic but I will just give my little opinion. I think what the Dalai Lama is saying, by following the Nalanda tradition is what Lineageholder mentions in regards to the dialectic system that stems from the Nalanda institution, which is the memorization of a text, study and then debate. I actually found this to be one of the best ways to comprehend the meaning of a text. Even though still on an academic level, rather than an experiential one, the meaning still seems to penetrate further into the mind than using other techniques.

But what really confuses me, as Lineageholder, mentions is that His Holiness says much of the knowledge is not Buddhist but secular. I don't believe this one bit. Also, yes, many religious traditions have co-existed in harmony in India in the past, but there are very notable cases where they have not. It was Vajrayogini who spoke to Lama Tsongkhapa and told him to replace his red pandit's hat with a yellow hat, symbolizing the growth of the Dharma, rather than control. In my understanding Indian pandits wore red hats during debates with non-buddhists, symbolising the need to 'control' their mistaken views. Yes, Buddhism has in the most part been a peaceful religion, as according with its teachings, yet it has not and in certain parts is not accepting of other religions. There is no need to sugar coat it apart from if your motive, rather than expressing fact is in order to portray something else. Or perhaps even cover or deflect from the fact that His Holiness is schismatic, and not harmonious within his own religion, his own tradition....

dondrup

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Re: What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2013, 11:55:44 AM »
With reference to the the quote below which was reported in the article by Phayul.com

Quote
He further highlighted that ancient Indian texts contain a thorough knowledge of emotions and once the source of emotional problem is understood, it is much easier to solve it.

Secular can be explained as denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.  Can the scientific and medical communities talk about emotions?  Yes. Perhaps this is what HHDL meant when he said the said knowledge is not strictly Buddhist, but has a secular basis to it?

Based on the same article, I believe HHDL is being skilful in relating the Tibetan Buddhism to its source which is the Nalanda Tradition.  And Nalanda comes from India.  Bear in mind HHDL was addressing i think a predominantly Indian audience at the seminar! I don't think HHDL is refuting karma, past and future lives. 

We shouldn't speculate on what HHDL said in the article as we do not have the complete picture!  Furthermore we are not even there at the seminar to hear what HHDL said and hence understand the true meaning in the proper context!

Lineageholder

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Re: What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2013, 12:21:15 PM »
Thanks everybody for your contributions, it's food for thought.  :)

Blueupali

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Re: What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2013, 03:03:00 PM »
I don't think the Nalada tradition refers to an actual lineage, but rather, like when the DL misuses the word 'rime' is his own particular way of conforming the world to his particular ideology: that the Dalai Lama himself should control all of Buddhism.
 

Big Uncle

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Re: What's your take on the 'Nalanda Tradition'?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2013, 08:15:10 PM »
I believe the Nalanda tradition refers to the Sutric tradition that was passed down via the great Indian pandits. It was well known that Gaden Monastery was initially structured to follow Nalanda monastery. However, Nalanda was an institution that propagated secular as well as religious curriculum while Gaden monastery pursued mainly a religious syllabus. Perhaps, this is what the Dalai Lama was trying to express, a return to this approach. I am not sure but I am just guessing from what you guys have been saying about the Dalai Lama's statements. I personally think the Nalanda tradition is fine as long as it promises religious freedom and especially the freedom to practice the protector I want to.